These forums

[Jopo12]

Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

Maybe you should take some of that on board yourself.

What exactly? Please tell me because I really don't see where I have been abusing people for absolutely no reason. I don't think I'm better than others and I don't make stupid remarks if I disagree. Are you blaming me of infuriating as I see arrogance and selfish behaviour and disrespecting others? Do you expect me to be a saint then if I'm treated wrongly? How you are defending yourself and your kind if somebody punches you or shoots you, are you running away or being nice then?

birdy123, I'm sorry that you seem to be too naive to understand and observe what is Ackter's attitude against most people in here, if you didn't understand I wasn't pointing to these exact couple of posts he made in this thread.

Hell, I fully agree with him that there are complete idiots around but how he can be blaming anybody for ruining these forums as he doesn't do anything but ruin it more himself? It's very hypocritical. Or is he meaning that those who he thinks are stupid shouldn't be writing here? Don't you have free speech rights in GB? Or is this some Soviet Union?

I understand that he thinks he knows better and is better, and the only right way is how he does. But are you really telling me that it will work in a community? I don't think it's proper acting at all. You can come tell me I'm acting stupidly because I bring it up. I wonder what you would do if it considered and bugged you, but that doesn't matter here right? Because this ain't a free community as Ackter and others don't accept that people are different and write what they like. This should be a dictatorship. But who is really breaking the rules, somebody who nags about a game bug or somebody who abuses him because of complaining?

[Ackter]

I do love the "everyone should be able to say what they want, except for Ackter" rants.

[Jopo12]

Originally posted by Ackter:

I do love the "everyone should be able to say what they want, except for Ackter" rants.

That's interesting, but how does it have anything to do with previous posts? I haven't seen those rants myself at all, so it's hard to tell.

Let me give you an example again, you are like telling me I'm racist because I don't accept racist people. So basically if I tell racists to shut up and quit being idiots, I'm racist myself. That's exactly what you are saying. Think about then what is right and what is not.

[Ackter]

To quote:

Ackter and others don't accept that people are different and write what they like.

You're having a go at me in the exact same way you think I have a go at other people.

Anyway, I'm sure that's enough of this rubbish.

[Jopo12]

Originally posted by Ackter:

You're having a go at me in the exact same way you think I have a go at other people.

Surely "having a go" is different than telling the truth? You have yourself admitted you don't have respect to some people here. I'm not arrogant or abusing anybody, at least when I'm not blamed first as you do.

I'm not sure if it was unclear, but I meant that you have problem with people's rights to tell their opinnion. I didn't mean that you write what you want, but you don't let others do that. Then after I express my displeasure of your inappropriate actions you start blaming me of being narrowminded and not letting you to say what you want as you are clearly being negative, disrespectful and very unproductive. Then you say others don't know how to write in the forums.

In case you think abusing and blaming others is how it is done here, go ahead and write whatever you like. But that's one helluva hypocrisy because you don't even approve some of those posters who aren't attacking you in anyway. Tell me about lousy forums then. But I hope everybody make their conclusions and I hope some will understand what I mean, like Ched did. And glad that you decided to quit the "rubbish" that you all by yourself started. Don't go to the kitchen if you can't stand the heat. I can look in the mirror and admit I could do better and observe my doings to be a better person and treat others better next time. Sadly I don't think you are a man enough to do that. And if you really feel deep inside your head that there is nothing wrong with your actions you are just plain stupid or a cold and cynical "human" which I am nothing but feeling very sorry for.

[Ackter]

Do you read what you write before posting?

[Jopo12]

Originally posted by Ackter:

Do you read what you write before posting?

I try to, but I wonder what it has to do with anything. Aren't you coming up with anything good to defend yourself so you have to start to be arrogant and sneering? How old are you? Eight? You maybe can tell that English isn't my native language but I really don't know what was there not to be understandable, except if you are totally against willing to get what I'm saying. Or maybe you just don't get it even if you wanted. That's the main problem with you, you don't realize that there are others too.

Do you actually think before posting?

[Ackter]

Looks like I'm going to have to explain this to you, then.

All of your posts in this thread regarding me can be described exactly by what you posted at 23:04. As you seem to have trouble remembering what you're posting, I'll try and remind you.

What you are doing is accusing me of insulting people, thinking I'm better than everyone else and generally being rude. At the exact same time, in the exact same posts, you're being nothing but insulting, sanctimonious and rude.

You went out of your way in this thread to jump on a simple off-hand comment I made just so that you can have yet another go at trying to 1-Up me. Now, as big as your e-penis cleary is, I have no desire to see you waving it around all the time. I'm pretty sure that no-one else here wants to see it either.

I'll say it again, but in another form in the hope you'll actually grasp it this time. Read exactly what you've posted. Take note of the tone and content of your posts, especially when directed towards me. Apply the standards you keep posting about to your own posts.

Voila.

[Jopo12]

Originally posted by Ackter:

Looks like I'm going to have to explain this to you, then.

All of your posts in this thread regarding me can be described exactly by what you posted at 23:04. As you seem to have trouble remembering what you're posting, I'll try and remind you.

What you are doing is accusing me of insulting people, thinking I'm better than everyone else and generally being rude. At the exact same time, in the exact same posts, you're being nothing but insulting, sanctimonious and rude.

You went out of your way in this thread to jump on a simple off-hand comment I made just so that you can have yet another go at trying to 1-Up me. Now, as big as your e-penis cleary is, I have no desire to see you waving it around all the time. I'm pretty sure that no-one else here wants to see it either.

I'll say it again, but in another form in the hope you'll actually grasp it this time. Read exactly what you've posted. Take note of the tone and content of your posts, especially when directed towards me. Apply the standards you keep posting about to your own posts.

Voila.

What if you just don't have the skills to comprehend my tone or what I say? Sorry if I've been insulting you by telling that you are behaving unmaturely. Sorry if I am rude as I say you are selfish and don't understand that others' views may differ from yours and even be better sometimes.

You don't know a poop about my tone or my goals. You haven't seen me being rude or insulting you, and you don't even want to. And I'm sorry as to me it seems you're a really big hypocrite or a complete psychopath. You can't see your own sarcastic and very mean attitude against people but yet when I tell you that I'm like the meaniest person in the world.

Whose e-penis it is here again to grow? Who is slamming people down and making sneery remarks about their lack of skills in football or simply their stupid posts in FREE FORUMS? Who is continuing to answer my posts and wanting desperately to have the last word? Who is the FM guru directly under SI without no proper knowledge but still telling everybody they are wrong?

Maybe you would grasp it too this time which I doubt but again: "Let me give you an example again, you are like telling me I'm racist because I don't accept racist people. So basically if I tell racists to shut up and quit being idiots, I'm racist myself." And to clear things up, you are the damn racist here. I don't tolerate it, so I'm worse than you and I got no right to complain?

You are the only one with little e-penis. You wouldn't be growing it by being arrogant and The God for everybody else you deem to be not worthy. And if you really are better, why aren't you acting like that? You aren't taking anything I and many more before me have been saying to you. Everytime the baddie is the one who is telling you to shut up and start being nice to others. The bells aren't still probably ringing but if you are right, why you bother replying my posts? Of course you aren't actually replying as you make some things up in your own head and defend by accusing me of doing the same things that you do. That's a one symptom of psychopathy, being unable to find own faults and only "reflecting" them to others and blame them. Now you can express to everyone that it is me who is the bugger here and you are only trying to make me stop while you are trying to get the final word and "win" me. If you really cared about other forumists and had strong self esteem you really wouldn't reply. But you are fighting childishly because I hit the sensitive spot and what worse, criticised you!

Heck, you were the one again who started this. But your only regret seems to be that sighy "oh, why did I even bother" as usual which means nothing. No real regrets that your comment was completely needless and stupid and that you could have left that out.

Write a mature end speech without that hypocrisy if you really want this to stop, or show how big your real penis is and leave this subject entirely and maybe think that you really are better than me. I wouldn't have too much against it.

Touché

[Ackter]

Baffling, just baffling.

To adopt your own, frankly ludicrous, example: I'm telling you you're racist because you're being racist yourself while claiming not to be.

It really is as simple as that.

And how you can claim I started this is beyond me. I'll run through things again.

This was my post:

Have been away from these forums for about a week, can't say I missed anything.

To simplify it furhter for you, even though I hate having to be so blatantly obvious:

"I've taken a one week break from the boards. While away I was hoping something might have been done. Maybe even a few good discussion threads started that I could get involved in on my return. Yet when I return there is no difference at all."

Now let's see what you posted in response to that:

The Master has spoken...

That was an absolutely magnificent thing to hear, maybe you could tell us more about your doings and feelings so everybody here could feel better? It is so nice and helpful to read THAT valuable people telling what they think of inferior folk. Thank you for your great contribution.

That post contains absolutely everything you accuse me of. My throw-away comment had absolutely no relevance to you, but like a few other threads I've been involved in you've jumped in and decided to comment.

I really wish I had a pound for every time some random nobody I've disagreed with over something trivial has started following me around the forums.

[Jopo12]

Originally posted by Ackter:

That post contains absolutely everything you accuse me of. My throw-away comment had absolutely no relevance to you, but like a few other threads I've been involved in you've jumped in and decided to comment.

My post wasn't negative and disrespectful, I was only expressing my joy that you told what you've been doing and I thanked you for making me to feel better. There wasn't anything malicious.

This game can be played by everyone .

Originally posted by Ackter:

To adopt your own, frankly ludicrous, example: I'm telling you you're racist because you're being racist yourself while claiming not to be.

I'm the racist because I claim not to be? Or am I a racist just because you say so even if I deny it with good arguments? I didn't get that example at all. Our difference is that I have valid points and evidence of you being what I claim you to be. You then have no proof and no valid arguments (just like many cases before) but you're telling I'm insulting you because I tell I don't sccept your nasty attitude and behaviour. You have absolutely no solid arguments against me, you are only aping your defence from me which has nothing to do what I do and what you to.

Jesus Christ, your policy is that if you punch me in the face and I am not satisfied with it and say that or punch you back, I'M still the villain. In this case I haven't even punched you, I just say what you do wrongly. Take it as a lecture or something, but it certainly isn't insulting or sanctimonous. You just can't accept that somebody says things straight to your face and they are correct and about your mistakes or foolishness.

It seems pretty obvious that a) I'm talking levels above you because you can't reply properly or even comprehend what I say, be it lack of understanding or lack of self-esteem and b) you simply can't bear the fact that you are doing something wrong and somebody don't accept it. You are though the last person to accept it, and therefore denying it fiercely and trying to search the reason from others like me. You take no responsibilities for your actions and attitude, everyone else only sucks, like me. But hey, did you realise that Ched understood too what you did? Maybe we are both ******* and ******** or whatever you may think of. Surely it can't be your fault that your actions are irritating people?

I wouldn't wonder if you didn't have any siblings because you seem to been getting everything you want, and without noticing or caring about others at all. Or then you have many and you've been bullied and beaten badly so you've became such a grumpy and bitter person who hopelessly tries to be something "fawning" SI and gaining finally some power and recognition in here, SI forums. GYHOOYA and start respecting others too than SI stuff and see that there are other people everywhere who think differently and are better than you.

[Ackter]

Power and recognition?

This is an internet forum, I don't care what people think of me on here.

I really don't know what you're jabbering on about anymore, I really don't. It's plain for everyone (except for you and Ched) to see that, whatever you're on about, has nothing to do with what I've been posting any time recently. Ched simply overreacted as he took my statement in entirely the wrong way - you on the other hand can't seem to get over a disagreement we had several weeks ago in another thread.

I don't pepper my words, I simply say it as it is. It's amazing how often someone exactly the same as you takes issue with me simply because I hold a different view to them.

Maybe I should run a little list of the insults you've thrown at me in this thread? Some of them include "you are just plain stupid" or that I act like a "psychopath".

Christ, it's like I've broken into your house and killed your mother or something.

As your last post, yet again, has proven it's you that's having trouble keeping up. I assume it's because English isn't your native language. Either way, what you're posting about here has no relation at all to what's actually going on, except inside what I can only start to describe as your paranoid head. The amount of hypocrisy going on in your own posts is unbelievable, but then maybe that's down to the language thing as well.

I'm the racist because I claim not to be? Or am I a racist just because you say so even if I deny it with good arguments

Neither, and just another example of your failure to grasp what's being said. You are going on about how I show no respect, how I insult, how I think I'm better than other people and in the exact same posts you throw insults at me and claim you're better than me.

It's frankly rediculous, and it's getting tedious.

[Ackter]

I just say what you do wrongly

And you do exactly what you say I do wrongly as well. Though for some reason you can't see it.

And as for me "throwing the first punch", which part of:

Have been away from these forums for about a week, can't say I missed anything.

are you having trouble with? Which bit there exactly is causing you irritation? Which part of that is some form of horrible insult against you? Which part of that is 'nasty attitude and behaviour'.

I think you'll find (at least I hope you will, though somehow I doubt it) that it's your replay to my above quoted post that's full of a nasty attitude. It's sarcastic, it's an attempt to belittle and insult.

[Jopo12]

You really can't read or don't understand what you read. Where have I claimed that I'm better than you ? I never said either that "you are just plain stupid", there was a IF before it, if you happen to know how it'll affect the sentence.

And if I tell you you are acting like a psycho, where the hell is the insult in it? Someone might say I do gay things but that doesn't mean he calls me gay.

And if you really don't remember what the hell you meant by that first post, I can tell you. You were seemingly disappointed by threads which weren't to your liking, and probably frustrated because of those needless posters writing here and ruining the forums. And then you wanted to sarcastically comment here and let everyone understand how you think about that "filth" which "pesters" these forums and you surely showed how you think about them, as you have stated and expressed earlier many times.

But you didn't realize it's value in defending you until now when you figured out you could change it to mean completely different thing. Why weren't you telling that in the first place?! Because you couldn't come up with it yet 'cause you tried other things to dispute and defend yourself. And still, was it necessary at all? Did it god damn improve these forums??? I can tell now I was in the toilet a couple of hours ago. I'll make a own thread for it so Ackter can come there ranting about futile posts and the level of forums. Yet he does the exactly same things himself! Who the hell gives a horse's hole about if have you been in the forums or did you find anything to interest you? LOL, what's more needless here than this?

AND if somebody really doesn't get that your post was negative, meant to express your arrogance and boredness against those who write unnecessary and stupid posts judged by you, he/she is naive or very sick minded or stupid. And as you can't tell the difference of insult and this kind of statement, this wasn't an insult. An insult would be: "You are f****** stupid". Next time try to spot it because I make myself clear when I want to insult you.

[Ackter]

Bored now.

[Ched]

If anybody is still wondering why these forums are degenerating then cast their eyes up the page and see the "excellent" modding in action...

If a mod had stepped in this wouldn't have turned into a childish e-penis comparison session.

[dafuge]

It's been mentioned plenty of times that we don't have many mods for this particular forum, how many of them would you expect to be here at midnight on new years eve?

[Seagulls Forever]

Please tell me that you lot are all in different timezones and were not having a ****ing contest on a forum when you should have been out partying, seeing friends, or enjoying the company of your families, or heaven forbid if you're that sad playing Football Manager.

For the record this is standard Ackter stuff. You guys aren't the first to get bored of it, nor will you be the last. I really want to know which member of the mod team he has incriminating photographs of because that's the only possible explanation.

[Michael F]

Can we just settle this, my penis is bigger than both of yours

The end

[Kris]

Originally posted by Ched:

If anybody is still wondering why these forums are degenerating then cast their eyes up the page and see the "excellent" modding in action...

If a mod had stepped in this wouldn't have turned into a childish e-penis comparison session.

And yet, no-one reported any of the posts.

I noticed it, but thought Id leave it contained within this thread rather spill over into petty bitching whenever any of the people involved posts. Having reviewed the history of the people involved I just gave up as there obvious past issues that they feel happy to bring up whenevr they see the time to get a sly dig in. Certain people also need to know when to stop posting and adding to an aggravated situation.

The bitching about Ackters posting style is losing sight of the bigger picture, with a forum which has hit highs of > 200,000 users one person is not going to be the cause of any overall trend (whether up or down).

Personally I'd do away for GQ altogether as 99% of questions can be broken down into the relevant dedicatd forums (Tactics, Bugs, Tech Issues, LLM, Stories, Challenges).

[dafuge]

Why was it changed from 'general questions' to 'general discussion'?

[Ched]

Originally posted by Kris:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

If anybody is still wondering why these forums are degenerating then cast their eyes up the page and see the "excellent" modding in action...

If a mod had stepped in this wouldn't have turned into a childish e-penis comparison session.

And yet, no-one reported any of the posts.

I noticed it, but thought Id leave it contained within this thread rather spill over into petty bitching whenever any of the people involved posts. Having reviewed the history of the people involved I just gave up as there obvious past issues that they feel happy to bring up whenevr they see the time to get a sly dig in. Certain people also need to know when to stop posting and adding to an aggravated situation.

The bitching about Ackters posting style is losing sight of the bigger picture, with a forum which has hit highs of > 200,000 users one person is not going to be the cause of any overall trend (whether up or down).

Personally I'd do away for GQ altogether as 99% of questions can be broken down into the relevant dedicatd forums (Tactics, Bugs, Tech Issues, LLM, Stories, Challenges). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First point, if it wasn't reported then fair enough regarding the lack of any action taken.

But then you sort of invalidate this point by saying that you DID notice it....bit confused by this really...

As to "The bitching about Ackters posting style is losing sight of the bigger picture, with a forum which has hit highs of > 200,000 users one person is not going to be the cause of any overall trend (whether up or down)"

- if you allow anybody to post in an unpleasant style then surely you are leaving the door open to every prat acting like they want?

As ackter is (in my op anyway) one of the more respected posters then surely his posts may influence others more than my (or many other poeples) posts do?

Whilst one person is not the cause of a trend, allowing them to do as they want while pulling other posters over similar infractions is quite out of order (and does appear to be partly the cause of the injustice jopo was feeling - although i'm just speculating here).

If the mods believe it not worth cracking down on one person, then what is the magic number? Do 10 people need ot post in an unpleasant style before it's worth doing something? 100 people?

Please don't take this as merely a dig at ackter, i had an issue with the manner of his post, nothing more, but i was under the impression that THIS ENTIRE THREAD was created to remove the abusive, aggressive and pointless posts from these forums. As i've said, ackters post wasn't that bad, it's just that many other people would have gotten pulled up over it.

As to doing away with GQ, it's pretty much the only place i post; whilst i do occasionally use the other forums i feel that GQ serves a purpose and peoples opinion seems to be just get rid of it rather than fix it....i pray to god none of you have any pets

Not trying to stir anything up again (please let's not have another argument over nothing...) but the point of view of the mods here is confusing to say the least.

[Jimbokav1971]

Been away for about a day and I come back in to find that this petty squabble over...... whatever, is still on-going.

I think Ackter's initial comment was very accurate and pretty reasonable to boot. I stopped reading Jopo's posts after a while and just added him to my list.

It appears that some people appear to think that it's acceptable to "badger" Ackter because they have seen other threads where others have done the same.

This forum is dead now. I think it is beyond saving to be honest. People have got into such bad habits because the forum has been so poorly moderated, (down to the number of moderators and also the guidelines that they have been given by SI).

There was a 7 page thread started in August 2006 on a similar subject, and despite comment from SI, no action was taken and the situation has worsened considerably.

We are now having to put up with fewer and fewer moderators trying to moderate what has become a prettly shabby group of forums. This thread is now 20 pages long and is now over 3 months old the situation has not improved at all.

The overall poor quality of the recently released game, (and the subsequent beta patch), has certainly not helped the situation, but the overiding reason for reduction in "qualty threads" is purely down to poor moderation of the forums and a saturation of pointless threads that are often posted in the wrong forum and in breach of a number of forum rules from the outset.

If SI decide to close GQ, then the users who make all these useless threads will simply post more threads in other forums and the current GQ problems will spread elsewhere. SI have created this beast by not enforcing existing rules and now want to moan about at.

Shambles.

[Ackter]

I still don't see how my posts are 'unpleasent'.

Sarcastic yes, arrogant yes, but unpleasent?

[Ackter]

Having reviewed the history of the people involved I just gave up as there obvious past issues

In short, like has happened many times on this forum - I disagreed with him in a thread (I think it was an "The Ai Cheats" thread where a lot of what he was posting was simply wrong), since then he pops every now and again when I've posted something and starts this sort of thing.

It's not the first user who's done it, and I doubt it'll be the last either. Either way, I'm not going to start 'pulling punches' when I see someone posting something that is clearly wrong, especially in an "AI cheats" type of thread.

[Jopo12]

Originally posted by Ackter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Having reviewed the history of the people involved I just gave up as there obvious past issues

In short, like has happened many times on this forum - I disagreed with him in a thread (I think it was an "The Ai Cheats" thread where a lot of what he was posting was simply wrong), since then he pops every now and again when I've posted something and starts this sort of thing.

It's not the first user who's done it, and I doubt it'll be the last either. Either way, I'm not going to start 'pulling punches' when I see someone posting something that is clearly wrong, especially in an "AI cheats" type of thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find it sorry that you guys are thinking that I would go that low as to get into some personal "hunt" or war against somebody here. I'm not like that. I've only done wrongly to publicly argue with somebody as it surely doesn't touch most of the others so it is only disturbing others. And I really don't care if somebody else has anything to do with Ackter or anybody, I have my own disagreements with people and others can have theirs.

I am also sorry about these buttlickers out here. Do you really have to try to gain points by shoving your nose into things which have nothing to do with you? People come here and have their say without knowing what actually me or Ackter are thinking. Still they know everything and choose their sides. Don't come here if you don't have the time or interest to find out about things and be reasonable.

I'm not saying that Jimbokav1971 or anybody should tell I'm right and agree with me, but I'm sorry that they aren't tough enough to be reasonable, because I have certainly done nothing wrong than expressed my anger because of stupid and hypocritical behaviour. Still they are nearly hanging me because I attack Mr Ackter. I'm still waiting for Jimbokavs facts which he bases on his contempt of me. If he does see that unnecessary to tell, then he should not had written here at all in the first place. Or maybe he has nothing good arguments than he doesn't want to spoil his image in Ackter's eyes or something.

Ackter, do you really think you are that important and mighty person that somebody would purposefully stalk you around here ? That's an sad attempt to disguise your own miserable attitude, to try to make everyone who doesn't like you seem like some madmen and perv who are running a chase on you. Maybe earlier I got frustrated of you because you were acting like an ass? Maybe it was this time too?

"I disagreed with him in a thread (I think it was an "The Ai Cheats" thread where a lot of what he was posting was simply wrong" . This tell everything what is wrong here. You disagree with people because "they are wrong". What if you are wrong all the time? That maybe hasn't visited your mind at all.

I thought that Jimbokav1971 was an extremely good poster here with good points, but now I see him too just as weak and naive. You would probably support Stalin too because he also was always right and was treating people like whatever. I'm disappointed because you don't give reasons and still you say I'm wrong. That's only a man's talk who is afraid and weak.

No wonder that these forums won't work as there is a "elite" core who seem to think that they are the ones who should decide what is done here. If some one isn't satisfied with it, then he will be eaten alive with weakminded minions.

I'm also sorry that a moderator says it really doesn't matter if one keeps being a w*****. Ched answered well to that one so I don't need to copy that. Seagulls Forever hit the nail in the head also. Seems almost somewhat like a conspiracy where mods and these ackterdudes are getting so well together that there simply is no room for Ackter or somebody doing nothing wrong, because he is a friend and well-known around here. It's so lame to claim that I have a personal grudge against Ackter and put everything on it so YOU would be saved from saying some negative stuff to Ackter. Nobody dares to do anything because it would be a shot in his own leg. So if you moderators and authorities think here too that I'm the only one who has acted wrongly and needs reprimanding, and Ackter's been very mature and wise, you know what you can do and where and take these forums with you.

[Jopo12]

And Ackter and EVERYBODY, if there is such a big figure of people getting frustrated because of Ackter, do you everybody really think that the reason is at all those people who Ackter says are stalking him? Nobody has ever figured that the reason could be something other than those who hurt their minds?

[Ackter]

For the record, me and Jimbo have had many a disagreement over the years.

[Ackter]

Jopo, the people who get upset and frustrated because of me all fall into one camp:

They don't agree with what I say.

It's as simple as that. It's just occasionally someone comes along, like you, who can't keep things contained to one thread. Using Jimbo as an example, every single disagreement we've had has remained within the original threads. He's more than mature enough not to follow me into totally unreleated threads and have a go.

[Kain]

I disagree that the forum is beyond saving, nor do I agree it doesn't have a purpose. Check some of the more basic questions that get asked occasionally, questions about things such as fan days, feeder/parent clubs, how to remove a user from a game.. without this forum, there wouldn't be a place to ask these questions. There needs to be a general forum, as there's no other way to have a place where people can ask these things.

The forum desperately needs dedicated mods. While it wouldn't be a good idea to have mods that ONLY moderate this forum, I think it needs some whose main focus is GQ. Reporting posts, as demonstrated here, doesn't happen anywhere near as often as it should; that's true for every forum. If there were even 1 or 2 users that became mods and focussed on GQ, it could become a useful forum again. It may take a month or two, and it might even get a little worse before it gets better, but as it is now, people with genuine questions aren't going to come back to the forum because of the manner of the replies they get in their threads; if these people are having a problem preventing them playing the game, they won't be buying the next one.

Fwiw, I don't always agree with what Ackter says, but I've very rarely had a issue with his general tone. It can come across as a bit harsh and abrupt at times (not all the time), but there's a difference between being harsh and being abusive. And unlike many others, he can at least back up the points he makes, rather than just acting as though his opinions are facts and becoming abusive when others disagree.

[Ackter]

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FM Graphics & Skinning

Specialised Forums

FM Challenges

FM Lower League Management

FM Online

FM Stories

FM Fansites

That would pretty much cover everything, note the PC& Mac support forums in much higher prominence.

[Ackter]

FM Support and FM suggestions would take the place of GQ/GD.

People would still be able to start the same type of threads, but something as simple as the word "Support" allows SI and the mods to be much stricter with the form of threads and posts.

It becomes less of a free-for-all forum.

[birdy123]

That would be better. Strict moderating in specific threads is the way to go.

[Kain]

That probably would be a little better actually, if only to separate the threads that pop up. All of the other problems that we currently have would remain though.

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by Ackter:

Support & Suggestions Forums

FM08 Support

FM08 Suggestions

FM08 Bugs Support

FM08 Data Support

PC & Mac Support

Discussion Forums

FM Tactics & Training

FM Good Player & Team Guide

FM Editors Hideaway

FM Graphics & Skinning

Specialised Forums

FM Challenges

FM Lower League Management

FM Online

FM Stories

FM Fansites

That would pretty much cover everything, note the PC& Mac support forums in much higher prominence.

I think this is what the forums need. It's clear enough and the mods should have the ability to immediately delete posts that fall outside the boundaries of each topic.

[Ched]

Originally posted by Ackter:

Support & Suggestions Forums

FM08 Support

FM08 Suggestions

FM08 Bugs Support

FM08 Data Support

PC & Mac Support

Discussion Forums

FM Tactics & Training

FM Good Player & Team Guide

FM Editors Hideaway

FM Graphics & Skinning

Specialised Forums

FM Challenges

FM Lower League Management

FM Online

FM Stories

FM Fansites

That would pretty much cover everything, note the PC& Mac support forums in much higher prominence.

I still believe that the idiots that start the stupid threads would just post in a different forum. Getting rid of GQ would just disperse them. And i feel that some threads still wouldn't fit under the headings given there, but it's the best suggestion that's been thrown up so far with regard to getting rid of GQ.

Personally get rid of the muppets and GQ can be a pleasant place, also, i'm not sure why people would want rid of it? If i actively didn't want something, i just wouldn't use it.... no sense in getting rid of something that other people enjoy just because some aspects of it annoy you???

[Ackter]

It would disperse them yes, and mixed with specific forum moderaters and a more strict guide they would then be easier to manage.

Personally I would like GQ to remain, but I think the best way to move forward would be to split it up.

[Ched]

Originally posted by Ackter:

Personally I would like GQ to remain, but I think the best way to move forward would be to split it up.

I'm just not sure that everything can fit under headings; some things, by their very nature are "general" - just a quick glance down the first page of GQ turns up the following;

- what country are fm players from

- greatest affilitate deals

- does fm run your life

- what is your manegerial style

....

now i'm not commenting on the individual merits of the threads (i'm sure some are useful and others less so) and i'm not saying they couldn't fit under some heading somewhere, but surely GQ was made for this kind of topic, and surely just moving the stuff that doesn't belong elsewhere would work?

The number of idiots does seem to have dropped off a bit now that many people have just accepted the game as it is, but there are still NUMEROUS threads in the wrong place, maybe SI should look at why this is; my money is on the fact that the FM sire drops you into GQ, hence many people will have come straight from there and won't know about the other sub-forums.

Taking your suggested headings, if the FM site links straight to the FM08 Suggestions forum then i'd be willing to bet that the forum would end up in the same state that GQ is currently in.

[George Graham]

As a longtimer on these forums its quite noticable that quality of posts has deterioated with the quality of the game.

Not that this is an excuse for insults etc- but its no surprise that we get so many rants nowadays.

[Seagulls Forever]

Originally posted by Ackter:

I still don't see how my posts are 'unpleasent'.

Sarcastic yes, arrogant yes, but unpleasent?

In what way are sarcastic and arrogant pleasant?

[Seagulls Forever]

Originally posted by Ackter:

Jopo, the people who get upset and frustrated because of me all fall into one camp:

They don't agree with what I say.

That's a rather arrogant view. There are many people with whom I disagree, but I get along with them just fine. I think you'll find that it's your lack of people skills that cause you problems. If you have a message, then consider that it may reach more people and be understood by more of them if you consider the way that you deliver it.

[Ackter]

The posting style of the poster tends to have an influuence over how I post replies to them.

However, if you expect a forum bereft of sarcasm then you may as well shut down the entire interweb - it'll never happen.

[Seagulls Forever]

Just had a look at that link Jimbo posted. It's pretty similar to this thread, way back in 2006. Given that that resulted in nothing, and 3 months later this has resulted in nothing, are we to expect another thread in 2009 resulting in nothing?

PS Ackter.. how come you're up at this time of day (3.50am UK time right?)? Or have you got the same excuse as me of being in a different time zone?

PPS I'm not suggesting a forum free of sarcasm but I do feel that you could do with taking on board some of the criticism and maybe changing your ways a little, to set a better example to the newbies.

PPPS just to show I don't just disagree with you for the sake of it, I actually think you're kinda right on the forum split. GQ/GD just isn't working. I would also say that George Graham has a point regarding the link between game quality and forum posting. I remember things being a lot more pleasant back in the day (as an old fart who's been around since the old techcities days).

[Ackter]

I pretty much slept the entirety of New Years day. Oops.

[Jimbokav1971]

Originally posted by Ackter:

I pretty much slept the entirety of New Years day. Oops.

Me too. But I've got an excuse. I'm ill .

[Seagulls Forever]

Originally posted by Ackter:

I pretty much slept the entirety of New Years day. Oops.

Breakfast at 7pm in my case.. the restaurant staff were a tad confused by all the sleepy looking people wanting breakfast but I think they just accepted it and figured it was easy money.

[Kris]

I'm also sorry that a moderator says it really doesn't matter if one keeps being a w*****. Ched answered well to that one so I don't need to copy that. Seagulls Forever hit the nail in the head also. Seems almost somewhat like a conspiracy where mods and these ackterdudes are getting so well together that there simply is no room for Ackter or somebody doing nothing wrong, because he is a friend and well-known around here. It's so lame to claim that I have a personal grudge against Ackter and put everything on it so YOU would be saved from saying some negative stuff to Ackter. Nobody dares to do anything because it would be a shot in his own leg. So if you moderators and authorities think here too that I'm the only one who has acted wrongly and needs reprimanding, and Ackter's been very mature and wise, you know what you can do and where and take these forums with you.

Where did I say that? I said that one person wont shape the forum and its cyclic "evoloution" (although it never really evolves, hence the cyclic part).

I am one of SI's biggest technical critics having worked in the software development industry for 15 years now. Im also no big fan of Ackter as Im sure he'll testify so that kinda shoots your theory down.

Ultimately he has trodden the cautious side of the thin line and whilst he has been under review a number of times (as I'm sure he is aware) he does present some very logical posts when it comes to the AI (as he seems to understand the idea behind AI logic such as hive behaviour and shortest path to food).

Ive banned bigger and considerably more important "community wise" people then Ackter for stepping over that line but to consider him the root of the issue is silly.

Each person is moderated on their own merits, hence there is no magic number, one person could be banned for abuse and another having just received an email warning. The difference is what we , the moderators, have reviewed the person in question as having added (or potentially adding) to the community.

I was also around in the old techcities days when losing your account to a server crash was a daily occurence but we had less than 12,000 members then (im sad cause I keep stats like that ) and there was much less access to the internet and available email accounts (you had one with your isp if you were lucky) and thus much less room for the constant trolls.

Although im a moderator I spend upwards of 4 hours a day (down from before my daughter was born when I was spending 7 hours a day) just housekeeping the forum software and running scripts to weed out the trolls. If you think this forum is bad atm, then you actually don't see the other 10-20% which is deleted.

I'd be better as a moderator being actively seen but then this doesnt work as Id still end up doing the troll removals, just publicly.

Ill go back to the cyclic theory I put forward earlier and which I iterate in virtually all these threads. Ive seen 7 or 8 years worth of the high and low points of the forums and can pretty much nail it down to a 2 year cycle. and within that a high point(s) of Jan-Apr and low point(s) of Sep-Dec. Whether it's for the reasons Ched has posted I couldnt say but would hazard a guess at being so (that and those 9% (this year) of people who have signed up with a pirate copy of the game and the 6% (this year) of users who have purposefully gone out to be trolls and generated alias accounts after that).

With a community this large, myself in particular trying to weed out trolls and alias accounts created to disrupt the community need your help via the report post button.

Or you can email me direct (whether its for the above or you just want to raise a point "off foum") at kris.dorey [at] gmail.com

[birdy123]

(that and those 9% (this year) of people who have signed up with a pirate copy of the game and the 6% (this year) of users who have purposefully gone out to be trolls and generated alias accounts after that)

Christ...

That's a very interesting read, though, Kris. I'm sure I, like many others wouldn't have realised the huge amount of work that goes into this unless you had posted that. But doesn't your post (deliberately or not) cry out for more moderators to cope with the workload and lessen the strain on the community?

[Ched]

Originally posted by birdy123:

But doesn't your post (deliberately or not) cry out for more moderators to cope with the workload and lessen the strain on the community?

Yeah... the numbers given do sort of point in this direction.

I do wonder about the motivation of trolls, why the hell do they bother?

[gavnoble]

Originally posted by Ched:

I do wonder about the motivation of trolls, why the hell do they bother?

They still harbour a grudge against the Three BIlly Goats Gruff.