These forums

[NepentheZ]

I can't argue with you there Leftback. The GD Forum is a great place to be at times, and you can really get some good threads in here, and the odd poster or two are naturally going to post in the wrong section, for many reasons. The debates in some threads are phenomenal, but some of them are childish. Despite my disagreements with ched, I must say his opening posts are admirable, and he forces his threads into a discussion/debate, and not into a war of words.

I don't however, think that the other forums are stronger from the massive contribution in the GD forum. I personally think it makes the forums as a whole weaker. In my experience, this causes people to do the following.

1. Go to the correct forum, but not get a response. Therefore, they create ANTOHER thread in the same forum, for the same reason, hoping this one doesn't go overlooked. This now infuriates those in the forum, and the OP gets flamed out of the forum. He then turns to GD and posts in here, and may either get help, or get direction to the forum whence he has come.

2. Begin in the GD forum, and get help, or get directed to the correct forum.

Now, 2 doesn't seem like such a big deal, and maybe it's not. I don't ever mind helping where I can, or giving a link where I can't, but with the growing frustration of the current plethora of threads being opened, Others like myself are taking every miss placed topic and using it as an outlet for there frustrations.

In my opinion, Moderators would put a halt to the latter, and allow the Agreeable, Useful first point of call you speak of, to ensue in GD. Thats a day i very much look forward to.

[gubbs]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

Making a point is fine. Making a point in a condescending way is not. Making a sniping post is also not.

<snip>

We know that some people are finding the game too complex. It was one of the reasons behind our decision to make Football Manager Handheld.

Definately don't see any of that condescending stuff coming from S.I. employees.

J/k

Seriously, regarding this subject, you can't expect people not to moan about the game. Irrational, ranting hatred or 'I pirated the game so hahahah!' obviously needs addressing though.

On a (not unrelated) side note, I think everyone who has massive issues with 8.01 has already buggered off.

I know I have - this is a fleeting visit.

[Seagulls Forever]

I can't help but think that the backwards spiral of game quality and forum quality are inextricably linked.

As the developers come here and face a barrage of criticism they begin to change their relationship with it. It becomes a source of hostility. The trouble is that psychologically they probably identify the forum in general as being hostile. This can create some of the conditions for group-think, where ideas from the outside can get filtered out as coming from destructive elements.

The end result is of course that SI get increasingly insular, and do not converse with the fans, relying on usability studies, focus groups, all these things which frankly don't work as well as a quality forum. So we have SI with their heads in the sand (cue Miles saying this game is their best ever etc). Now we can debate all we like about the quality of the game but that kind of comment suggests someone is not listening.

Of course if the forums were friendlier you'd start seeing more honest responses from SI, so they could admit that the CM4 codebase from which they've been working the last however many years is flawed and needs a re-write or whatever else may be the case.

Anyway, this is just ramblings really as I'm on my lunch break and doing other things, just some thoughts that were in my brain and sometimes it's nice to let them out once in a while and see where they lead.

[Ackter]

Or Miles genuinely thinks this is the best game they've done - he wouldn't be alone in that thought.

[Powermonger]

It's probably the 'best' FM to date but still needs alot of improvement in many areas.

[Seagulls Forever]

Originally posted by Ackter:

Or Miles genuinely thinks this is the best game they've done - he wouldn't be alone in that thought.

He may well do, but being honest he does seem somewhat blinkered about the problems the game suffers from. Anyway that's a debate for another thread and not one to clog up this thread with.

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by Seagulls Forever:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

Or Miles genuinely thinks this is the best game they've done - he wouldn't be alone in that thought.

He may well do, but being honest he does seem somewhat blinkered about the problems the game suffers from. Anyway that's a debate for another thread and not one to clog up this thread with. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think he's blinkered. I think he knows exactly how much effort is required to put things right, but he's got confidence in the team to do it - afterall, they've got a good track record of getting it right at this stage.

[Michael F]

Originally posted by Rcjuk:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Michael Foster:

for mods ofc

How about you foster? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i realise your taking the mick Rcjuk, so wont even answer that.

[schuey100]

An FAQ section would be good. Or maybe a 'current issues' section.

Get rid of the stickies at the top of the forum and actually use them for really important notices. There are so many, the top of the forum is a mess, it needs to be improved.

Whenever anyone posts, at the top it should have a default message that says "Read the current issues list, if your issue is already highlighted your post will be removed"

When someone does still post then the topic can be removed or, if people get there before the moderator they can simply add a repsonse:

www.siforums.com/currentissues.html

That will cut out all the "DO A SEARCH", "NOT AGAIN", "BORING", "GET A LIFE" posts that add tension to the forum.

[MaD_WeeGiE]

You know what i think be good idea for these forums.

Is to have news fader at the top just saying for example "Patch progress like in like a 1-10 level. 10 Being far away and 1 being complete.

Stops all this silly questions of when will patch be here, if i was to start a game is it good to wait... aka the sly questions lol

Anyway keep up the good work lads! still a nice community outside the bitching

[Oz]

Originally posted by Michael Foster:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rcjuk:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Michael Foster:

for mods ofc

How about you foster? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i realise your taking the mick Rcjuk, so wont even answer that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

spoken in true mod style :*)

Oh, and I'm not sure someone with the name "PowerMonger" would be the right choice for a mod We have enough of those in LLM.

[Cralle2]

Why di I can´t edit or delete my own post??

I need it, in my tread about the problems in Værløse (in England it will be vaerloese)

[dafuge]

Originally posted by Cralle2:

Why di I can´t edit or delete my own post??

I need it, in my tread about the problems in Værløse (in England it will be vaerloese)

Only the moderators and SI people can do that.

[aaberdeenn]

Originally posted by dafuge:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cralle2:

Why di I can´t edit or delete my own post??

I need it, in my tread about the problems in Værløse (in England it will be vaerloese)

Only the moderators and SI people can do that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why is the case anyway? It makes no sense at all.

[Last resort]

Shouldnt we get back to the main reason this thread is here?

Its quite simple to me.

There are rules to join this forum. If you agree with the rules youll become a member.

If you break the rules once- no matter what rule youll get a yellow card.

If you break a rule again while having the yellow card youll get a red card resulting in a 2 week ban

When you come back and breake yet another rule you wont get a yellow card but a red caed direclty resulting in a month ban.

This is your last shoot. If you break on oof the rules again youll get a permanent ban. End of story....

You have 5 chances. If you dont comply to the rusles youre out of here.

This is not a democracy. This is dictatorship.

Those who made the forums is you gods in here.

Just be normal and go along with the flow...

How do we always have to pitty the fooles that dont understand normal behaivor?

This shouldnt be such a problem if everyone knew what the penalty is for abuse...

That my opinion anywho....

[birdy123]

Originally posted by aaberdeenn:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dafuge:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cralle2:

Why di I can´t edit or delete my own post??

I need it, in my tread about the problems in Værløse (in England it will be vaerloese)

Only the moderators and SI people can do that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why is the case anyway? It makes no sense at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The feature was abused.

People used to write an abusive comment, and then change it before a mod could see it.

A good feature imo would be to have a sort of "allow editing up to 2 minutes after the post has been posted" feature.

[aaberdeenn]

Originally posted by birdy123:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aaberdeenn:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dafuge:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cralle2:

Why di I can´t edit or delete my own post??

I need it, in my tread about the problems in Værløse (in England it will be vaerloese)

Only the moderators and SI people can do that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why is the case anyway? It makes no sense at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The feature was abused.

People used to write an abusive comment, and then change it before a mod could see it.

A good feature imo would be to have a sort of "allow editing up to 2 minutes after the post has been posted" feature. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh right, I see. Your suggestion is a good one ,it would please many people whilst being a suitable compromise for those at SI.

[NepentheZ]

Originally posted by aaberdeenn:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by birdy123:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aaberdeenn:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dafuge:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cralle2:

Why di I can´t edit or delete my own post??

I need it, in my tread about the problems in Værløse (in England it will be vaerloese)

Only the moderators and SI people can do that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why is the case anyway? It makes no sense at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The feature was abused.

People used to write an abusive comment, and then change it before a mod could see it.

A good feature imo would be to have a sort of "allow editing up to 2 minutes after the post has been posted" feature. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh right, I see. Your suggestion is a good one ,it would please many people whilst being a suitable compromise for those at SI. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, that would be cool. I can't tell you how many times I've had to re-post something in fear of being flamed for 1 spelling error....

[Emmenaar]

Embedded quotes suck.

[LFC Lloydy]

I too would like to be able to edit posts. I think it should at least be used on a trial basis for a while just to see if it can be available without people abusing it. If not that then I would at least like a "preview window" to see what it will look like once posted.

IMO the best thing would be to have the option of editing your posts and if you do, there would be something to show you have edited it and an option for people to see the undedited original post. That way people can edit but not be able to get away with abusing people. Unfortunately I suspect the forum software won't be able to do that.

[birdy123]

This forum already a mass of "the patch is broken" type threads.

Not a single moderator in here either, so the forum is just getting clogged up with obsolete patch threads that serve very little purpose to anyone other than the opening poster.

It actually frustrates me to enter this particular forum now.

[dafuge]

Originally posted by LFC Lloydy:

I too would like to be able to edit posts. I think it should at least be used on a trial basis for a while just to see if it can be available without people abusing it. If not that then I would at least like a "preview window" to see what it will look like once posted.

IMO the best thing would be to have the option of editing your posts and if you do, there would be something to show you have edited it and an option for people to see the undedited original post. That way people can edit but not be able to get away with abusing people. Unfortunately I suspect the forum software won't be able to do that.

Unfortunately editing your own posts did go through a trial period, but people abused it, so it was decided that it would not be allowed.

A preview post button would be great, I'm guessing that the forum software doesn't allow it though.

[dafuge]

Originally posted by birdy123:

This forum already a mass of "the patch is broken" type threads.

Not a single moderator in here either, so the forum is just getting clogged up with obsolete patch threads that serve very little purpose to anyone other than the opening poster.

It actually frustrates me to enter this particular forum now.

It's always going to be like that for a while after the release of a new patch, it won't last long.

[Ackter]

Unfortunately editing your own posts did go through a trial period, but people abused it, so it was decided that it would not be allowed.

Bizarre decision imo.

Post-modding the people abusing it would make more sense.

[Seagulls Forever]

Originally posted by dafuge:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by birdy123:

This forum already a mass of "the patch is broken" type threads.

Not a single moderator in here either, so the forum is just getting clogged up with obsolete patch threads that serve very little purpose to anyone other than the opening poster.

It actually frustrates me to enter this particular forum now.

It's always going to be like that for a while after the release of a new patch, it won't last long. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One could argue that a higher quality patch would lead to higher quality posts... </devil's advocate>

[Ackter]

Originally posted by Seagulls Forever:

One could argue that a higher quality patch would lead to higher quality posts... </devil's advocate>

You could try, but you'd be wrong.

Trust me.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Ackter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Unfortunately editing your own posts did go through a trial period, but people abused it, so it was decided that it would not be allowed.

Bizarre decision imo.

Post-modding the people abusing it would make more sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I understand, it was more than just a handful of people who were abusing it.

[Ackter]

Originally posted by Kain:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Unfortunately editing your own posts did go through a trial period, but people abused it, so it was decided that it would not be allowed.

Bizarre decision imo.

Post-modding the people abusing it would make more sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I understand, it was more than just a handful of people who were abusing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was the usual crowd in OTF monging out about it.

[Will Smith]

Originally posted by Ackter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kain:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Unfortunately editing your own posts did go through a trial period, but people abused it, so it was decided that it would not be allowed.

Bizarre decision imo.

Post-modding the people abusing it would make more sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I understand, it was more than just a handful of people who were abusing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was the usual crowd in OTF monging out about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes branch it all under OTF

[Ackter]

Well it was the entirely predictable element that started a very predictable thread about it and went on to predictably misuse it which predictably lead to its removal.

Guess what my word of the day is?

[ajc]

Can I say how much I agree with this. I have played and love this game for years but have only just atrted to use the forums. I have been reading peoples opinions for a few days but have only just started to post for fear of getting a bashing. The slagging off must stop otherwise newbies like myself will not post!

[warkill]

It will not affect me at all, because i did not insult anyone here, and nobody here even want to talk to me!

[westmead63]

Ten hours community service before you're allowed access

[jase19]

you could always open a "rants and raves" forum with no holds barred for all the children to sling around cheap shots, without profanity of course.

[Ched]

Originally posted by jase19:

you could always open a "rants and raves" forum with no holds barred for all the children to sling around cheap shots, without profanity of course.

Why? People shouldn't need to "rant and rave", it is just a game. Similarly, rants and raves help nobody, a constructive moan is another matter, but an outright rant is useless and should not be encourage imo.

[westmead63]

Agreed. Autoban for them. Or community service.

[Jase1982]

Originally posted by jase19:

you could always open a "rants and raves" forum with no holds barred for all the children to sling around cheap shots, without profanity of course.

It think that's a good idea....A lot of people really just want to blow off steam occasionally, which bogs the main forum down with too many typical rant threads that are all the same....if there was one forum for all the gamers wishing to vent their fury, they wouldn't upset anyone else and would be kept separate.

[Ackter]

They also wouldn't post in that forum.

[Amaroq]

Originally posted by FrazT:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aaberdeenn:

I've not read much of this thread but I've got a question. General Questions is the most visited forum so why are there no specific moderators for it?

A very valid point- all the SI staff and Mods who have moderating responsibilities ( apparantly about 50 people ) will visit GQ but only a small number actaully do moderate. Perhaps it is about time that a pool of say 7 were appointed specifically for GQ and can cover GQ on a Rota basis to ensure that there are not long periods withoput Mods as can happen at the moment. No criticism is intended of those who do and those who dont. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm VERY much in favour of this idea. It actually hadn't occurred to me that GQ didn't have specific mods!

Surely, if moderator-ship tends to come about for focus on a forum other than GQ, and we've all noticed a typical trend of experienced users "drifting away" from GQ, it makes sense that the moderators don't focus on GQ ..

.. and I think we're all agreed that GQ is the forum that most needs moderation.

So, yes, that seems a brilliant idea to me - pull in three, five, or seven moderators from posters whose focus is GQ, and build from there.

Originally posted by Ackter:

Amaroq I've mentioned in this context before, but he seems to be online less and less these days. He's also a very busy guy.

Originally posted by leftback in the changing room:

If you ever look in the Stories forum, Amaroq appears to spend his every waking moment crafting the "Sharpening a Rusty Blade" story.

These two posts made me smile greatly, if a fortnight later.

I would like to contribute to the forum community as a moderator, but as an employee of one of Sega's competitors, I'm afraid there is a question of conflict-of-interest.

Not that it necessarily rules me out, its just something we'd have to think about.

Instead, I contribute in my own way(s): Blade (which, no, I don't spend all my time crafting!), and trying to hold myself to a high standard of personal conduct in GQ. (Not that one always lives up to it, of course.)

But thank you both, you made my evening.

[jase19]

Originally posted by Ackter:

They also wouldn't post in that forum.

yeah thats the drawback lol

[HD]

I would like to contribute to the forum community as a moderator, but as an employee of one of Sega's competitors, I'm afraid there is a question of conflict-of-interest.

Also, you're a giant pain in the arse.

Hang on, maybe you are what they're looking for.....

[Amaroq]

[FrazT]

This thread has been stagnant for about 2 months and is now moribund. RIP

Please SI lets close the thread and tell us all, after all the input in here since September, what you have learned from this and what your plans and timetable for implementation is.

[birdy123]

Exactly. No point it being here any more. All the ideas and such have been posted.

[Michael F]

Originally posted by FrazT:

This thread has been stagnant for about 2 months and is now moribund. RIP

Please SI lets close the thread and tell us all, after all the input in here since September, what you have learned from this and what your plans and timetable for implementation is.

I agree Franz, i posted this 3 pages ago

Originally posted by Michael Foster:

This thread died about 7 pages ago Barnzy, now its just pointless arguements & people repeading what has been said in the first 20 pages. Time for Miles to say a few final thoughts & lock this thread me thinks

IMO this thread became pointless about 10 pages ago.

[LFC Lloydy]

I agree, the same suggestions have been discussed repeatedly about 10 times now. Miles started this thread back in September and at the time he said they had already talked about changes and that he had ideas.

Unless SI has just given up on this they must surely by now have strong plans of what they want to do. So please, just let us know what is happening, not necessarily everything in detail just a quick note on where you are at and what sort of things you are planning.

The very existence of this thread had an impact on the forum and people's behaviour but the longer things are left at a standstill, the more people will forget about it and revert to their old behaviour. An update of any sort would manage to keep this thread and its intention in people's mind and even help improve the forum even further. Keeping quiet does not help and will just frustrate people (myself included) and make them feel as if this is not an improtant matter and that SI does not care.

Anyway, rant over, now please say something SI, even if it is only a little.

[Ched]

Can we just start closing moan threads?

If its a bug, it should be in the bigs forum, if it's constructive, fine. But the amount of tedious moans ("i score too many corners" being my current fav) that do nothing other than complain about an aspect of the game, are starting to irritate.

Mods need to start doing something - there is a specific forum for bugs, why do we let people just complain about bugs here?

[Frankie 7]

Being a Mod is a difficult job and very time consuming. Mods have their own lives with Work, Family life then having to come on here and do this job as well.

But i agree that SI do need more Mods and fast. These boards have went downhill a lot since i first joined. There are excellent members on here, Some with Mods experience from other sites and some still working on other sites.

it's these guys we want Modding here, Guys who want to see these boards get back up to where they once were and entice new members and not scaring poor newbies away.

[Starr_Man5]

Originally posted by Ched:

Can we just start closing moan threads?

If its a bug, it should be in the bigs forum, if it's constructive, fine. But the amount of tedious moans ("i score too many corners" being my current fav) that do nothing other than complain about an aspect of the game, are starting to irritate.

Mods need to start doing something - there is a specific forum for bugs, why do we let people just complain about bugs here?

I agree with Ched.

It all gets a bit tedious and I sort of feel sorry for those who start the moaning threads because the don't seem to realize that no sooner is it started, it spirals out of control and becomes a moaning, ranting counter-ranting flame-fest with nothing whatsoever to offer, bar some points scored for the fanboys and anti-fanboys.

And once you've read one, you've read them all...

[This field intentionally l]

I still think having a separate Rant/Raves & Praise forum might be useful. Of course it would soon resemble the monkey fight scene from 2001 Space Odyssey but at least Rants/Raves/Praise threads in GQ could be legitimately closed or moved. (I'll leave it up to the reader to decide which faction got the Monolith Brain Boost).