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The Big One. England v Australia. The Ashes. Cricket. Spoliers.


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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Haz:

Kirtley makes Shabbir Ahmed's action look pure icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most bowler's actions look pure but if each one if slowed down into 1000 frames a second, i'm sure that every single one bowler thats ever played the game straightens their arm to some extent

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tanman007:

He's not batting as well as Trescothick, Strauss or Bell but IMO, Vaughan got the runs against top teams when the chips were seriously down. i.e 2003-03 Ashes, the last tour to india , and when he defied Murali on the 5th day in Sri Lanka to post a century and save the game. I rate those acheivements over centuries against weak Bangladeshi,South African,Windies and New Zealand sides. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's not in the same sort of form he was in 2 years ago. Won't have as big an impact in this series as the last one.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Gilchrist v. Jones

No contest here </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didnt know you rated Jones that highly icon_eek.gificon_wink.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

I reckon the 20/20 match will be impossible to call with both teams having little to no experience in the situation. The likes of Gilchrist, Flintoff and Pietersen should make great viewing though icon_cool.gif

The ODI series will be close I reckon, mainly because of two factors:

1. Australia are without Warne

2. England possess the most destructive middle order in ODI cricket today.

To weigh up the test series I will compare each player in each position...

Hayden v. Trescothick

However much Hayden has been out of form and even though Trescothick has a 50+ home average and has scored 1000+ runs in the past two years AND is well on his way in 2005 I have to say Hayden is better. Also Trescothicks ashes performances so far have been appalling.

Langer v. Strauss

A fantastic 2004 for both players, Strauss is Englands golden boy following a SA tour where he held the team together. Langer on the other hand hit 1481 runs last year and also has a very good record v. England. Langer probably edges this battle

Ponting v. Vaughan

One of the best batsmen in the world v. the one England player the Aussies actually appear to rate. 2004 was a "poor" year for Ponting as he averaged only 41 without one century but Vaughan has also struggled to consistently repeat his form from that ashes tour. At the moment Ponting has the edge but if Vaughan could repeat his performance of last ashes tour then Australia could be in trouble.

Clarke v. Bell

I know that Martyn will probably bat 4 but I thought it apt to compare the two new boys. Clarke made a thumping start to test cricket but tailed of a tad against Pakistan. Bell on the other hand has looked good so far as he has made his average 200 odd but only against weak opposition. Tough one to call.

Martyn v. Thorpe

Yet another Aussie who averages over 50 against England and one who is in the form of his life recently. Thorpe is the old man of the England team and sometimes it shows as his back goes on him. However he is often the rock that a struggling England will regroup around and since coming back to test cricket in 2003 he has averaged over 50 and picked up a few (but each one crucial) centuries along the way.

Katich v. Flintoff

Assuming the Aussies do play Katich this is the one area where England win hands down. Flintoff finally found some consistency last season and it paid dividends as he hit 898 runs at an average of 52.82. His bowling has improved incredibly as well as he was topping 90mph last season and totally owned the current No.1 batsman in the world.

Gilchrist v. Jones

No contest here

Warne v. Giles

Whilst Giles has improved significantly over the past year he is still miles away from Warnes standard. Not bad with the bat though.

Lee v. Jones

I have always thought Jones has looked dangerous and if he were a tad faster he would be up there with the likes of Lee as a world class bowler. As it is he is just a really good one.

Gillespie v. Hoggard

The big swingers on each team, if Hoggard can reproduce his SA form then Australia could be in for trouble however Gillespie is still one of the best bowlers in the world

McGrath v. Harmison

Whilst Harmison isn't a match for McGrath (with the exception of Pollock who comes close) he still has the ability to be a truely world class bowler as he showed versus the WI and NZ. Appears to have regained some form/confidence after the SA series.

In other words I would be surprised if we won as the Aussies have 3 positions where they win hands down whereas we only have 1. In most other positions Australia just have the edge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In relation to the ODIs, Australia has been without Warne for a while now, and are learning how to cope without him. Although none of his replacements are up to scratch, collectively, through their efforts, not having Warne in the side isn't so much of a hindrance as it might be.

In relation to your test comparisons, nice work. icon14.gif However, it's touch and go as to whether Lee will get the nod over Kasprowicz. Kasper played all the tests in Australia's summer, whereas Lee was always twelfth man. Australian selectors are loathe to change a winning formula, so Lee might find himself on the outer once more.

BTW, I haven't noticed it being said yet, but Merv Hughes is Australia's newest selector, being picked to replace Alan Border, who quit as a national selector a few months ago.

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Clarke could be considered a little lucky to keep his place in Australia's XI, because he wasn't playing all that well against Pakistan and New Zealand. Brad Hodge might be a sniff to take Clarke's place, but Clarke will probably hold on to it, ultimately.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dixie Flatline:

BTW, Thorpe is going to play for NSW in the Australian domestic summer (ie. 05/06). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the article in the Sydney Morning Herald was hilarious

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alvaro:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dixie Flatline:

BTW, Thorpe is going to play for NSW in the Australian domestic summer (ie. 05/06). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the article in the Sydney Morning Herald was hilarious </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

??

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Katich is pure class, the aussies are going to stomp all over the **** poor Pommie attack, and tear through their weak middle order.

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the more I read threads like this the more excited I get icon_biggrin.gif

I think we'll lose 2 or 3 -1 though. If we are to win, we need two Vaughan esque Ashes performers with the bat, Flintoff to be on top form with bat and ball, Harmison to consistently find his form from the West Indies tour and for us to hold catches throughout.

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From BBC

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> England 'tougher than Australia'

Bangladesh face England and Australia in the NatWest Series

England have found an ally as the battle for the Ashes with Australia hots up - in the form of Bangladesh captain Habibul Bashar.

Bashar claims England have proved tougher opponents than Australia after losing both Tests by an innings.

"We found it a bit harder here. When we played in Australia we managed to play better than we did here," he said.

Only five England players got to bat in the two Tests while Australia lost 11 wickets in their two wins.

Bangladesh batted the whole day in the Cairns Test and it took Australia until the fourth day to clinch the win.

Bashar said both teams were impressive and there was little between them.

Itinerary: NatWest Series

"The England team is really competitive now," said Bashar.

"They are more professional and I think they are in top form at the moment.

"But overall it is difficult to compare both sides as they are equally placed and not easy to separate."

England, Australia and Bangladesh play in the NatWest Series, starting 16 June.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there you have it, England are going to win icon_cool.gificon_wink.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alvaro:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Haz:

Kirtley makes Shabbir Ahmed's action look pure icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most bowler's actions look pure but if each one if slowed down into 1000 frames a second, i'm sure that every single one bowler thats ever played the game straightens their arm to some extent </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've clearly never seen either of the bowlers in question here

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zvonimir Boban:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sebs:

ok, yeah, but im seeing lashings on friday </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Much fer a ticket and how easy is it to get to Grace Road from the city centre or wherever the train station is? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

£10 for plebs, £5 for members. Play starts at 5.30pm. Viv Richards is signed up for Lashings this season, don't know if he'll be playing or not but I sure hope so icon14.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BTW, I haven't noticed it being said yet, but Merv Hughes is Australia's newest selector, being picked to replace Alan Border, who quit as a national selector a few months ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Merv \o/

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the one on one comparisons are hilarious - especially as they usually place the strongest in one position against the weaker in the opponents depending on the bias.

you wanna compare the two sides, pick a strongest starting eleven from the two combined.

openers: hayden & langer are the openers despite strauss' excellent form, and haydens shakiness of late. class is permanent etc etc

middle order: ponting gets first drop without question. martyn gets the #4 spot, also without question. thorpe gets the #5 spot over katich and clarke for the same reason hayden is the opener. katich edges out clarke for the #6 spot. gilchrist is at #7, again, no question.

lower order: flintoff gets the #8 spot because of his bowling above all else. the fact he can bat as well means he is a fearsome #8. warne at #9 no question, and dizzy gillespie and glenn mcgrath take the new ball and make up the tail.

two englishmen make the team, and that pretty much sums up the gulf in quality between the two sides.

i copped a load of flack from you lot for stating that your biggest problem was with the ball in the south african tour thread, and that is still the case. you do not have the fire power to take sixty wickets in the three tests you need to win the series. your batting - aside from one place in the top order - is decent enough.

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Paper paper paper.....

Every man women & child knows if the ashes was played on paper the Aussies would win. And everyone knows if the Euro 2004 final was played on paper Portugal would have won.

Is McGrath better than Harmison on paper? Of course! But if Harmison fires on all cylinders and McGrath doesnt who's the better bowler? Now replace McGrath & Harmison with the other 10 players and you might spot the trend....

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Haz:

My God Rocky, you forgot Key icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought i'd give that Aussie captain fella a chance to prove himself icon_biggrin.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rocky Rockstar:

Paper paper paper.....

Every man women & child knows if the ashes was played on paper the Aussies would win. And everyone knows if the Euro 2004 final was played on paper Portugal would have won.

Is McGrath better than Harmison on paper? Of course! But if Harmison fires on all cylinders and McGrath doesnt who's the better bowler? Now replace McGrath & Harmison with the other 10 players and you might spot the trend.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what he said. if all of our players are at the top of the game, we'll win. simple as that for me

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sebs:

how many england players played in the last ashes series in england? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The last time the Aussie were here was 2001 where only Treso featured in all the tests. The likes of Hoggard, Giles & Thorpe all featured but only for 1 or 2 tests. No one else from the current squad featured at all.

The Aussie squad had Gilchrist, Gillespie, Hayden, Langer, Lee, Katich, Martyn, McGrath, Ponting & Warne which is basically their team today.

The biggest proof of how far we've come is looking at our squad from the 2002/3 series in Austrailia. Only 2 1/2 years ago but it featured the likes of Ian Blackwell, John Crawley, Richard Dawson, James Foster, Adam Hollioake, Ronnie Irani, James Kirtley, Owais Shah, Jeremy Snape, and Craig White ffs! No Strauss, Bell, Thorpe, Flintoff, G Jones or Giles.

Its hard to believe that was only 2 1/2 years ago!

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zvonimir Boban:

How about if everybody on each team is firing on all cylinders/at the top of their game though? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It will be a fantastic series! But the Aussies would be expected to win.

I just have a feeling that England (and the weather) will surprise the Aussies and snatch the series 3-2.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rocky Rockstar:

My team combo would be:

Hayden

<STRIKE>Strauss</STRIKE>Langer

Ponting

Martyn

Thorpe

Flintoff

Gilly

Warne

Gillespie

Hoggard

McGrath </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quite frankly, they're the best combination of openers since Greenidge and Haynes. On form, you might drop Hayden for Strauss so far this season, but Hayden has been making starts, just not going on with the job.

Otherwise, on their records, have to have Thorpe in ahead of Clarke. I'd swap Gilly with Flintoff.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pjburrage:

Has anyone seen the C4 adverts previewing the Ashes icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sky's are better, Warne is fffffffb icon_cool.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cottager:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rocky Rockstar:

Paper paper paper.....

Every man women & child knows if the ashes was played on paper the Aussies would win. And everyone knows if the Euro 2004 final was played on paper Portugal would have won.

Is McGrath better than Harmison on paper? Of course! But if Harmison fires on all cylinders and McGrath doesnt who's the better bowler? Now replace McGrath & Harmison with the other 10 players and you might spot the trend.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what he said. if all of our players are at the top of the game, we'll win. simple as that for me </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doubt it. I think all your players need to be at the top of their games to be in with a realistic chance of winning the series.

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