The Hibs & Romanov thread 06/07

[Frankie]

The evidence is plain to see.

He was interviewed (twice) for a Millwall fanzine 9 years ago. Players tend to read these things when that happensand I'm sure if the article was false he would have sued years ago.

Now it's been made public he's backtracking big style. We'll soon see how accurate the article is if he sues them - which he won't.

I'd say caught red-handed but I might get called names by Hartley and Lennon.

[Frankie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eleanor_Rigby:

Just because it was published in an English fanzine doesn't automatically mean it's true.

Lets assume it is true, it was 10 years ago ffs. I'm sure we've all said some half arsed comments when we were teenagers ourselves. I'll even admit to singing Hello, Hello... in my younger years. I've also probably said or sung a lot worse too </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is why he might have got a bit more respect if he'd apologised.

[McD]

I'm not convinced the timing of the article's release has anything to do with the CL game either, sounds like more chip-on-the-shoulder stuff.

Wasn't this discovered by someone on FF? Most sensible Bears want Hearts in the group stages, I think, if only to make sure Celtic don't get all the TV money and also so one of our title rivals have a more gruelling fixture list. Whoever released this probably gave no thought to who Hearts were playing next.

[Frankie]

Exactly the article only appeared because a bear stumbled on it completely by accident.

The timing is completely irrelevant.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

i don't understand why The sun has decided to go with this pish anyway. For a country that's trying to rid this stuff from our society, the media sure love fanning the flames. Now that it's being eradicated from our terraces the media have to use other methods as to keep this bile alive and kicking.

Seriously, what's to be gained from all this? Hartley gets dogs abuse and all the good that has come in recent times gets undone again? I suspect the Rangers fans are going to be the losers here as they will be the ones that will react to this.

bigotry sells papers and every man and his dog knows this, thus the media have no choice but to keep this pish running for as long as it's feasible to do so

[Eleanor_Rigby]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by McD:

This has been verified as being in a Milwall fanzine hasn't it?

Why would that publication's writer or editor make this up? Slightly more believable if it had been in a Scottish fanzine perhaps, but I can't imagine someone down south thinking to themselves "Hmm, I know how to incriminate one of our players in ten years time!"

As I said, surely now Hartley can pursue this through the courts as he'd make an awful lot of money. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure a cetain QC would be happy to help him out.

[Frankie]

I think a senior member of Scotland's 2nd best team (last season anyway) showing himself to be a bigot is quite newsworthy considering the amnount of crap that gets written about Rangers fans. As such, when a player is found guilty of similar behaviour and actually breaking a law then I think it's only fair people know.

It is interesting though that when it was an equally high-profile Celtic player it was generally ignored. As were the 'bannergate' and 'videogate' stories. Take from that what you will.

It's pretty unfair for certain people (including the press and MSPs) to continually castigate the fans (usually of one club) when players of other clubs are guilty of the same stuff. Fortunately, this season the Rangers fans have taken positive action and our behaviour has been excellent so far. We've admitted our problems and are looking to improve. Maybe by highlighting the prejudices of some players it will ask the fans of their club to do the same.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

I'm sorry, but dragging something up from 9 or 10 years ago isn't a positive. Maybe to you it is, but this **** is better left in the past and nothing can be gained from running this story.

Aye, Hartley could apologise, but why the hell should he? Have the people he insulted apologised for any remarks they may have made? I bet my mortgage they haven't. My dad was a member of an Orange lodge (as was my cousin - who sadly died), and lets be honest, they didn't talk about cars and DIY. Some of these offended Rangers fans will be the same idiots that have sang or said this sort of **** themselves.

[stevethedog]

I'd love to see some of the other articles in this fanzine as it's clearly the sort of one that's bound to get these sort of answers.

[Frankie]

Sorry ER but it was the Rangers team he called orange bastards - not the fans.

As such, I think an apology would be prudent here.

But if you think stuff should just be ignored because it happened a while back well fair enough but it's amazing what kind of stuff gets brought up when debates about Rangers and our problems occur.

And two wrongs don't make a right.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

I don't think he should apologise, as most of your club's fans will appreciate, things that are now deemed to be unacceptable weren't such a big deal back then. If we wanted to be fair about this, why doesn't the RST think-tank issue an apology, on behalf of all Rangers fans, to all those past teams that have had derogatory remarks said about them? It's a bit like calling someone a fat *****, then running to the teacher when someone makes the same comment back.

I'd see your point had this been a recent comment, but it wasn't and I for one would be disappointed in Hartley if he was to apologise to a club that by all intents and purposes only finally acted upon their own bigotry problems because they got pulled up from FIFA.

As I've said, most of us have been guilty of the same thing at one time or another so it's a tad hollow when we get all moralistic when someone else is exposed doing the exact same thing. I'm sure if the RST were to give the fans a free Kleenex at your next home match it will soon be forgotten about

Apologise to Rangers? You're having a laugh

[McD]

So we've had-

it's lies;

it was 10 years ago;

that stuff was acceptable back then;

it is only there to disrupt our team;

you lot do it aswell;

Any advance on five excuses? Anyone?

[stevethedog]

Is there not a chance that it was actually in the news when it was said as I'm sure someone would have spotted it.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Did I say it was printed as to disrupt our team?

As for the 'you lot do it as well', I think that's what Frankie bases most of his arguments on too. That's not to say I'm against that sort of mentality as I believe all guilty parties should shoulder their fair share of criticism. Why waste your time only discussing the problems through at tynecastle when we all know Celtic, Rangers & Hibs also harbour sectarian elements within their club/fan base too? By the same token you shouldn't expect to just come on these boards and view posts that only give one side of a particular story. I've got every right (as Frankie has too) to question something that I happen to think is a bunch of dross

[pandaLUFC]

Steve, do you know if there's any Celtic tickets left? Says on website that they are on sale still.

[McD]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Did I say it was printed as to disrupt our team? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't say you did. I was referring to the statement your club made.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for the 'you lot do it as well', I think that's what Frankie bases most of his arguments on too. That's not to say I'm against that sort of mentality as I believe all guilty parties should shoulder their fair share of criticism. Why waste your time only discussing the problems through at tynecastle when we all know Celtic, Rangers & Hibs also harbour sectarian elements within their club/fan base too? By the same token you shouldn't expect to just come on these boards and view posts that only give one side of a particular story. I've got every right (as Frankie has too) to question something that I happen to think is a bunch of dross </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've never shied away from discussing or opinionating on problems or issues at Ibrox - more so than I have those at Tynecastle. That's not to say I won't if something like this crops up.

[Frankie]

I think the crucial difference here is that if you visit the RST website you'll see we are against all forms of sectarianism or racism and actively try our best to stop these things happening at our club.

Unfortunately, in your various posts today ER, you seem to be trying your best NOT to condemn Hartleys' unacceptable and sectarian comments (no matter when they were said).

Seems deny and deflect isn't just a Celtic supportters' trait.

Yes, I may occassionally highlight other club's problems when Rangers are villified in the media and elsewhere. However, I have NEVER denied we have a problem and am ALWAYS prepared to discuss it.

A crucial difference.

[Frankie]

I'll say one thing for you though ER, you might be denying the issue, but at least you acknowledge it's there.

A much worse instance of a player abusing fans and a football club happened 2 years ago and the person responsible is currently lying about events in a daily newspaper. Rangers fans are quite rightly frustrated and annoyed by this yet you wouldn't have known it was happening as no Celtic fans seem willing to discuss it.

If you, Hartley or Hearts want lessons on how to sweep things under carpets I suggest you contact Celtic FC. They are experts.

[McD]

99% eradicated from home games, mate. Did they include their players when they came up with that figure?

[Frankie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by McD:

99% eradicated from home games, mate. Did they include their players when they came up with that figure? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Eleanor_Rigby]

If true, why should i condemn Hartley's remarks? I'd only be condemning someone that has done something that I did in my younger years too. I could always do the in thing and pay lip service, but you'd only see through it.

Sitting in a pub this stuff doesn't bother me, anger me or offend me in any way whatsoever, so I'm not going to act outraged or disappointed when in reality I'm not fussed one iota. A bit like I couldn't give a flying feck if someone was to call me an orange bastard.

There's more pressing matters in my life than what some bigot may think of me and my football club.

[Frankie]

Yes, but surely you can under the frustration of the Rangers fans when it comes to the issue?

We have all and sundry telling us what to do and that we're the worst offenders yet when it comes to blatent acts of the very same behaviour we're just expected to ignore and say 'ach well C'est la vie'....

[Eleanor_Rigby]

I just think the kids should be able to go to/watch on TV a football match without being subjected to this kind of bile. That's where my concerns begin and end.

I don't see why certain individuals can't change their behaviour for 2 hours a week and if they really feel the need to mouth off, then at least wait until they're in an adult only environment. At least Rangers have had their wake-up call, so in theory, they can sit back and watch the fireworks going off in the East End when Celtic get their comeuppances

[Richey White]

The good east coast thread dominated by west coast religious nonsense

[Frankie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Richey White:

The good east coast thread dominated by west coast religious nonsense </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blame Paul Hartley then....

[pandaLUFC]

THE MEDIA's AGAINST MY TEAM!!! ARGHHH!!!

[stevethedog]

Panda, if the site says there are still some tickets then I'd guess there are

Imagine that they might get snapped up though as I myself wouldn't mind heading along. Seriously think we can do them.

[pandaLUFC]

Said public sale was on 19th...that's why I'm doubting...especially as it says only 1,100 have been allocated.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

It's usually quite easy to get tickets for CP. Just watch you don't get one of the sh!tty seats

[pandaLUFC]

Easy to get a ticket against Celtic? Bloody hell. What's it like for non S/T holders to get tickets at Tynecastle?

[FrankJJ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankie:

I'll say one thing for you though ER, you might be denying the issue, but at least you acknowledge it's there.

A much worse instance of a player abusing fans and a football club happened 2 years ago and the person responsible is currently lying about events in a daily newspaper. Rangers fans are quite rightly frustrated and annoyed by this yet you wouldn't have known it was happening as no Celtic fans seem willing to discuss it.

If you, Hartley or Hearts want lessons on how to sweep things under carpets I suggest you contact Celtic FC. They are experts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do like how Celtic always seem to be the ones sweeping things under the carpet when we ars till waiting for the results of Rangers investigation into the sectariian singing from official party members in the San Siro last year.

Like it or not both clubs and others still dont want bad publicity over any incidents like that and to be fair, you have mentioned on many occasions in the past how it was time to move on, time to discuss other things, time to talk about football, yet continually return to pst issues that have already been done to death.

Yes you're going to say Lennon and Hartley have raised both these issues, feel free to read my comments in the Celtic thread about Lennon, but as for Hartley it was apparently ten years or so ago, it was when he played for another club in a different country and although it was a disgusting comment, it really isn't Hearts fault nor in my opinion, a Hearts issue now and one should believe that Hartley has hopefully moved on and matured from those days.

[FrankJJ]

And good luck to the Jambos in Athens, keep it tight, sneak a goal and one never knows....!

[Frankie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FrankJJ:

I do like how Celtic always seem to be the ones sweeping things under the carpet when we ars till waiting for the results of Rangers investigation into the sectariian singing from official party members in the San Siro last year.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, interesting deflection effort but I've never heard of any Rangers investigation into this? If there was, then I'd assume they'd come to the same conclusions the rest of us have and know about. Namely that there were much more Rangers fans than the official party who got into the San Siro that night. These were the people who were responsible for the minimal problems that evening - apparantly one rendition of TBBs.

Every other time there has been bad press about Rangers (with regard to the sectarianism issue in recent years) our club have always acted both promptly and publicly. Donald Findlay and Bob Malcolm just two very public condemnations of unacceptable behaviour from club employees. Other positive and public action is still occuring in eradicating the problems amongst our support. Which lately, has been superb both home and away.

I'm not sure the same can be said for Celtic or Hearts in this regard. Yes, some incidents should be left in the past and of course, oneupmanship shouldn't be the reason for discussing these issues. But with regard to both Lennon and Hartley's past indiscretions, apologies would have been easy to give and for the most part more positive than denying the circumstances even happened when thety quite clearly did.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

The fact Hearts have split up the main culprits (section N that was located in the old stand. It's been replaced with a TV booth) shows that they are doing something. Section G (located in the Wheatfield stand) has also been delt with. So I can assure you that the club has been taking action when and where the problems arise.

[stevethedog]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pandaLUFC:

Easy to get a ticket against Celtic? Bloody hell. What's it like for non S/T holders to get tickets at Tynecastle? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Near impossible these days

Celtic are charging £27 for a semi decent ticket. That's one of the reasons there will still be seats, then there is the fact that you pay that handsome price to be treated like **** on the end of your shoe by the strathclyde police, and then you get to watch your team get shafted whilst taking a tirade of abuse for 90 minutes and just when you're looking forward to get hame you have thousands of sellick fans running downhill straight through you to get to the offy.

Added complications of "fiver tae watch yer car mister" if you choose to drive.

Should be able to get a seat if you want one, have to go to celtic park once I think as it's some sight even if it's falling apart.

[Frankie]

Sorry my post wasn't very well worded.

With reference to Hearts I meant I didn't think they dealt with the Hartley fiasco very well. Although it's good to hear they are trying to rid your support of the few idiots who want to sing the same pointless words as Rangers fans.

[Frankie]

Sorry my post wasn't very well worded.

With reference to Hearts I meant I didn't think they dealt with the Hartley fiasco very well. Although it's good to hear they are trying to rid your support of the few idiots who want to sing the same pointless words as Rangers fans.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Strathcylde police are the biggest ***** around. Hate those tossers with a passion. I think last season was the only season that Hearts sold their allocation a' 800 tickets in years. F'n glory hunters

[Eleanor_Rigby]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankie:

Sorry my post wasn't very well worded.

With reference to Hearts I meant I didn't think they dealt with the Hartley fiasco very well. Although it's good to hear they are trying to rid your support of the few idiots who want to sing the same pointless words as Rangers fans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As Frank said though, it's not really got anything to do with Hearts. I can't see many clubs chastising their own players when the incident in question happened long before the player arrived at the club

[Frankie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stevethedog:

Near impossible these days

Celtic are charging £27 for a semi decent ticket. That's one of the reasons there will still be seats, then there is the fact that you pay that handsome price to be treated like **** on the end of your shoe by the strathclyde police, and then you get to watch your team get shafted whilst taking a tirade of abuse for 90 minutes and just when you're looking forward to get hame you have thousands of sellick fans running downhill straight through you to get to the offy.

Added complications of "fiver tae watch yer car mister" if you choose to drive.

Should be able to get a seat if you want one, have to go to celtic park once I think as it's some sight even if it's falling apart. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, the transport links to Celtic Park will be much improved once the new Commenweath facility is built. What a coincidence GCC want to build these new expensive (and spiralling) facilities so close to the home of their favorite club...

I believe the stadium itself was built on a low initial cost, high maintainence cost arrangement. There is a legend that the jumbotron screens can't be switched off as it would cost CFC £25K to do so each time because of the way they are wired in.

Goes some way to explaining the lack of 4 or 5* UEFA status accredited to Parkhead (despite FrankJJ's protestations a while back).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/UEFA4and5starstadialist.pdf

[Frankie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eleanor_Rigby:

As Frank said though, it's not really got anything to do with Hearts. I can't see many clubs chastising their own players when the incident in question happened long before the player arrived at the club </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd agree with that to a degree. Hartely himself should have commented.

However, Hearts chose to deny the accusations so they are now partly responsible for PH not taking the correct action in apologising, saying he was young and silly and now it's time to move on.

Instead grudges will be held much in the same way many Rangers fans have with Lennon. Which is a real shame as Hartley is in no way similar to that idiot.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Has anyone from down south even come out and said that those comments were gospel? I'm sure there's another copy doing the rounds with him using the word 'taig'. It's not difficult to doctor something for your own agenda, so excuse me if I don't take everything on face value

[Frankie]

Oh come on ER...

I know the guy who found this pretty well and I can assure you, although he's a big Rangers fans, his technological knowledage is limited and he wouldn't go so far to use £30 software to try and make a point about a Hearts player.

There are 2 issues with similar interviews. I don't know anything about the taig insult but I can't see a catholic Celtic fan using that word to describe themselves (although plenty use fenian and the like I suppose).

This issue did happen. I'll happily concede Hartley was young, silly and didn't mean what he said literally. Perhaps you should concede he maybe should have apologised and as such we can all move on.

I think we've both said enough on the subject.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Of course the taig comment was made up, but it still looked authentic and that was my point. Anyhoo, even if he did make those comments as a youngster, I see no need for him to apologise over something that he said about a football club many moons ago.

[FrankJJ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stevethedog:

Added complications of "fiver tae watch yer car mister" if you choose to drive.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, the transport links to Celtic Park will be much improved once the new Commenweath facility is built. What a coincidence GCC want to build these new expensive (and spiralling) facilities so close to the home of their favorite club...

I believe the stadium itself was built on a low initial cost, high maintainence cost arrangement. There is a legend that the jumbotron screens can't be switched off as it would cost CFC £25K to do so each time because of the way they are wired in.

Goes some way to explaining the lack of 4 or 5* UEFA status accredited to Parkhead (despite FrankJJ's protestations a while back).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/UEFA4and5starstadialist.pdf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you attmpting to troll every Scottish thread Frankie?

Have to tell you it's obviously cheaper for the locals as I only get charged £2 to park on Boden Street off London Road!

Good story about the jumbotrons, I like that one and almost wish it was actually true, and there may even be some truth in it, we do only switch one off each week.

And Frankie for someone who usually treats media comments with contempt to quote from Wikipedia, wel......

This Hartley "story" is a piece of nonsense and if we all started trawling back though fanzines and unofficial publications then dozens of players would be in trouble for utterances they may or may not have said years ago.

[Ter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eleanor_Rigby:

Of course the taig comment was made up, but it still looked authentic and that was my point. Anyhoo, even if he did make those comments as a youngster, I see no need for him to apologise over something that he said about a football club many moons ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If he did make the comments then if he had just come out and apologised and said he was young and naive and shouldn't have said it then that would have been the end of it bar the more than usual boos the next time he plays at Ibrox

Anyway, I don't really care tbh

[Frankie]

Oh I don't troll, Frank. I tend to post more than one line and usually reply to any questions put to me in order to stimulate some genuine debate and discussion.

The stadia list I only posted from Wiki because I couldn't be bothered uploading the official version I have from UEFA which is exactly the same. The list is correct.

I actually emailed Celtic about it as well out of a genuine interest and unfortunately they didn't reply. You'd think they'd be eager to correct any wrong information supplied to people? They usually are anyway.

Until they do I'll go with the official UEFA line which is a few months old I believe. Maybe Celtic have fulfilled the 4* criteria by now obviously.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

CP is a palace compared to what Darkheid used to be. That scheme you had to bolt through just to get to the away end was a fecking nightmare. 'Geez a pound mister and we'll watch yir car' Aye right ya fecking wee skanky tramp! Still had to give them the money though, as the car would have been bricked otherwise.

[Frankie]

Yep, I pay a £1 to park my car at the Broomloan End of Ibrox as well...

Money well spend generally and I'd trust some of the wee scoundrels more than the RockSteady guys in the albion car park. Or any security firm for that matter...

[stevethedog]

My dad hates the bastards with a passion and once parked a fair bit away from the ground just to avoid them, got oot the car and one had come from nowhere, he moved it again

My cousin used to tell them to do what they like as the car was nicked which stumped them. Never touched it too!