Creative Freedom... Use Sparingly!

[Dirty_ACE]

I'm interested in CF for strikers or any attackers. From what I understand it also regulates how an attacker (particularly a striker) will find spaces or position himself for a pass from one of his teammates in order to shoot on goal. So lets say you have a striker with low decision making, low creativity, and low flair, but he is a striker and needs at least some CF to be effective right? Also, does his Off The Ball attribute take over in this case as well? Should CF be kept to a minimum since his mental stats are not that good and just let him rely on the off the ball attribute?

[heathxxx]

An out-and-out striker I generally have low creative freedom. After all, he's the man I want to get on the end of chances, especially if he's got the sort of stats you mention Dirty_ACE.

In this case it's his off the ball and positioning attributes that will be his strongest points.

[Dirty_ACE]

heathxxx, thanks for clearing it up, however, I thought the positioning stat was useful only for defensive players?

[lam]

Laarson,

I am inclined to agree with Heath on this.

However, that said, i like you approach. i tried the same thing a while ago on pretty much all of the PI's. I was making assumption on what i thought was important and then taking averages

eg FWR = decisions, offball

RWB = pace, dribbling

but i think most of my assumptions are wrong.

i currently have an MC who has pace of 10 and dribbling of 19 and he tears up the middlefield. he does not do it with pace but his dribbling, but the oppo simply can not get the ball from him. In my old system, he would have got a mixed RWB at best.

thats one point.

my other point (and i would like feedback on this statement):

Creativity should not decide if you should or should not give creative freedom to a player. I beleive it should indicate wether you would or would not WANT to .

Ill explain a little better here.

I beleive that creative freedom is dependant firstly on decisions and secondly skills relevant to the players position and of course how the game is going.

However, I beleive that if a player has little or no creativy, Why would you even want him to try something different to the instructions that you have given him.

Not sure if i have made my point and no doubt someone can make it clearer than I.

thanks

Lee

[Rico73]

This is a very interesting thread guys, I'm just wondering if anyone has used this in conjunction with wwfan's TT&F tactics and if so what were the results.

[gallas 10]

is creative freedom a decisive thing in terms of flowing team play?

[lam]

gallas,

most people seem to comment that their team player more 'flowing' football when creative freedom is low.

I can only assume myself, that this is in relation to the team maintaning their designated formation.

This would manefest itself in your DM playing long balls over to your forward running wingers, rather than that short ball (that you want him doing) to your FB or your AM. Sounds okay...... providing he has the skills to make that killer long ball. He he hasnt ....... well..... im sure you get the point.

Sometimes 'flowing play' just wont cut it and you need someone to do something a little different. Maybe that star player of yours (on high CF) or maybe the whole team (on normal CF)

hope that helps a little.

Lee

[heathxxx]

Depending on what team I have of course, all but 2-3 maximum are on 0-5 creative freedom. I reserve highest creative freedom for the very best players with the right attributes.

I'll still never go higher than 15 CF though. I think a good example is people looking how to get the best out of Cristiano Ronaldo with Man Utd.

Amazing though he is, I never set his CF more than 15, as although I wanted him to be "liberated" from strictly adhering to team/indovidual instructions, I still wanted him to play to instruction to some extent. Rooney was in middle CF and I had Aguero or Scholes in the AMC position, also on middle CF. Only three players with anything higher than 5 on the slider. Still a creative force and attractive to watch, but regimented enough to stay with the core instructions.

The problem with high creative freedom that many don't seem to grasp is that used too much with too many players and the base tactic falls apart. I see this alot with tactics posted on the forums. Usually they can all be fixed to some extent by dropping CF across the board so that the team plays as a unit, rather than a bunch of headless chickens.

[chriseldiablo]

So far it seems improvement for me to go from CF 1 to CF 5 on 9 players (all but CMa & fast striker) is an improvement. I have put my CMa on 'Normal' CF 11 and my fast striker is on CF 15 with free role.

Maybe this works better for me now, since I used to play Direct Counter, with minimum Creative Freedom allowed? I am now changing into a short passing system, which some here thinks, is in need of "higher" level of creativity to get to work.

I am not sure about this, but can it be so that when you play CF 1, the players will notinitiate your orders unless they think it is a 100% chance to succeed? I have had problems with my CM's, especially my CMd getting him to tackle. Now with CF5 instead of CF1, I can swear he is more eager to break up opponents play. Is this a wish-thought from me, or is it real...?

[heathxxx]

Some tend to find that ultra-low creative freedom can cause players to dwell on the ball or be slow to react off the ball.

Ultimately I think it depends on a player's abilities. 1-5 is the guideline I work with for the majority of my teams and tactics, but individually I'll also look at their skills before deciding.

I personally never have my most advanced striker on ultra-high creative freedom, usually around the middle of the slider. A barrowed striker or AMC farrowed will usually have higher creative freedom if I want him to have a more free role, though I don't personally tick free role as I don't believe it's functioning too well in FM08.

[chriseldiablo]

What I tried to do with my TM, was that he tight mark the Central Defender assigned for my fast striker. That seemed to leave the oppositions other DC all alone. This with free role and high creativity made some really interesting attacks last match for me. Take notice that I play a poor team, so my players are under average, so I am not creating the fanciest stuff, just glimps of it. My Tall striker is on CF 5 though, to keep the basics for him.

At what CF level does the striker start to make 'out of position runs'? Right now I play him with CF 15 combined with free-role, which seems to work, at least a little bit.

Or would I be better suited to drop the CF to 5 for both my Striker, and then give my CMa CF 15 & free role? Right now I am really struggling getting my CMa 'into play'. He rarely ever gets more than 7 in rating, even in high scoring wins.

[heathxxx]

The CMa position I normally barrow into the AMC position. Get's him into a good space that's hard to mark.

As for stikers running into space, they need good off the ball attribute, as well as decisions. I normally go for default CF with strikers.

[Metacor]

Very good post.

I am playing Man United first season (only beginning), and I don't know how should I set the creative freedom to my players.

I play with 2 MC (one with DMC mentality), who are Scholes and Veloso (next season I will probably try to bring Fabregas because Scholse will loose stats during the season). AMC Anderson, wingers Roanldo and Giggs/Nani, and a lone striker Rooney/Tevez. I have Anderson set on a free role (because the Set To -> Attacking midfielder checks this box, doesn't know how really effective it is).

All those 6 Players have hight creativity set, but I guess it's wrong. Who should I let be creative?

Ronaldo has an arrow to the striker position, because I want him to score many goals. I want him to have hight creativity, probably i'll give him 20 as you suggest. Anderson has MAX creativity, and he preforms very well, should I reduce it?

Now it's 2 creative players already. Scholes has great mental stats for a creative player, so is Fabregas (once I bring him), shouldn't they have creativity too? So with those 3 players I should remove Rooney's creativity?

[Metacor]

Originally posted by Metacor:

Very good post.

I am playing Man United first season (only beginning), and I don't know how should I set the creative freedom to my players.

I play with 2 MC (one with DMC mentality), who are Scholes and Veloso (next season I will probably try to bring Fabregas because Scholse will loose stats during the season). AMC Anderson, wingers Roanldo and Giggs/Nani, and a lone striker Rooney/Tevez. I have Anderson set on a free role (because the Set To -> Attacking midfielder checks this box, doesn't know how really effective it is).

All those 6 Players have hight creativity set, but I guess it's wrong. Who should I let be creative?

Ronaldo has an arrow to the striker position, because I want him to score many goals. I want him to have hight creativity, probably i'll give him 20 as you suggest. Anderson has MAX creativity, and he preforms very well, should I reduce it?

Now it's 2 creative players already. Scholes has great mental stats for a creative player, so is Fabregas (once I bring him), shouldn't they have creativity too? So with those 3 players I should remove Rooney's creativity?

The edit option doesn't work for some reason.

To how much should I set the creativity of those players?

[heathxxx]

You can get away with higher CF with world class players, however I don't suggest going crazy with full CF.

When I've played as Man Utd, I usually play this system.

United 4-1-3-1-1 by MD-Ronaldo for 8.0.1, Tweeked Home & Away by heathxxx for 8.0.2

Ignore the players in this screen shot, they were from MD-Ronaldo's original post. You'll obviously have some different players, but I will work on the original players you have, plus obviously Veloso you've bought.

Tevez & Rooney (who are also set to swap position), are both on default CF for me normally.

The wide players, Giggs or Nani on the left, also set to about 5 CF (low) as I want them to hit the byline and feed the forwards, whilst I have Ronaldo on the right set about 14-16 CF. You'll see I don't farrow him into a striker position, but keep him as a winger. He will, or has for me, still scored lots of goals. Perhaps something to do with his higher CF? Also important is RwB often and FW often. I don't have him playing through balls.

My preferred MC is Anderson. I always rotate between him and Scholes in season 1. Give him a go, because he's one who develops really well and you won't need Fabragas. His CF I set also to default.

All other players, effectively the back 5, I set to CF 5 or below. Other settings are important though, as I like my full-backs to overlap, they're set to RwB and FW mixed. The DMC is defensive minded, but I set him to TTB often in or der to spread play to the forward 5.

Hope that helps a little.

[Metacor]

My favourite tactic in this patch is

FB CB CB FB

MC DMC (the DMC is in MC pos)

WF AMC WF

ST

So right now my best formation is

Brown Vidic Ferdinand Evra

Scholes Veloso

Ronaldo Anderson Giggs

Rooney

You're saying that giving Ronaldo an arrow to striker position won't increase his goals? And what is yout setting his crosses? And Attacking (I set crosses to mix and attacking to one more than the set to -> Winger)

I need Anderson as an AMC, so he won't be playing in the middle by default. How much creative freedom should I give him? And should I check the "Free Role" for him or for Ronaldo (or none of them).

[heathxxx]

To get the most out of Ronaldo, I usually give him the free role. There's nothing to stop you giving more than one player free role of course, but obviously be aware that they will do their own thing, more often than taking heed of your other instructions. It's a license to roam perhaps, more than sticking to a particular role.

[Metacor]

So to how much I should set Ronaldo's attacking mentality?

[heathxxx]

I don't go crazy with is, no higher than 15. This gives him a comfortable amount of freedom, but he'll still work his role instructions.

[Simao Sabrosa]

Hi mate, just wanted to thank ya for saving my season with Benfica.

Was 1st after 16 games and undefeated but for some reason the 2nd half of the season my opponents were finding more gaps and i was conceeding more and losing a couple matches.

Anyway, i read through ur post and implemented what you said and so far im in the QTR finals of the CL, won the league cup, semi final of the portuguese cup and am 1st in the league 4pts in front of porto with only 7 games remaining.

Hopefully the trend continues and i keep winning till seasons end

[Marseille07]

There is an interesting discussion here but I don't see many quantitative arguments.

Comments like "players follow instructions more truthfully with low CF" is a reasonable assumption but not proven.

IMO we could only be convinced of CF effectiveness in numbers, such as # of goals scored or conceded after increasing/decreasing CFs.

It ain't easy, takes a lot of time to find out.

[Uandwhosearmy]

Even if you actually did that you would still be faced with the difficulty of applying your results to another player playing a different team, with different players and numerous differences in tactical settings. Apart from creative freedom of course. This discussion may not be scientifical in the true sense of the word, but that doesn't mean that the arguments posted here are invalid.

Intuitively speaking, CF should work the way it is suggested both here and in the manual. That is, players with high CF will more often than not do their own thing based on their mental attributes (such as creativity, decisions, off the ball) and their PPM's.

[Mikael H]

To Cleon and others.

I have read this threa and to me it make sense that if you have rubbish players then you use low creative freedom. But now I have started a game with Lewes, playing in BSS. I made my own tactic, a 4-4-2, with mostly low creative freedom to my players. And of course I was struggling, brely making it above relegation zone. Then I found A thread by Super Ame (Credits to him). Nom everything wnt better and I ended up with a safe mid table position, first season.

Ok, now take a look att super ame:s thread

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=14883

In his opening post he wrote that it was tested with Lewes. It´s therefore I wanted to give it a try.

But look at his tactic, central defenders with no creative freedom but everyone else (almost) with quite a high Creative freedom(mid normal and even much). Considering that I play Lewes this shouldn´t work or?

Now I have just started 2:nd season with Lewes and I use Super eme:s tactic. Only played 5 matches so far (W:5 , D:0 , L:0 an 15-5 in goal difference).

Could yoy explain this to me?

Edit: The only thing I do is that I lower dline and then late in the game I time waste.

[rakhabbit]

Ive found that the Creative Freedom slider can make a huge difference

If your basic tactics aren't too brilliant, then CF1 (far left) means your team will perform badly

CF6-10 (low -normal) gives the players scope to work slightly outside the instructions you gave them and performances improve.

generally my best performances come with the majority of the team somewhere in 6-12 range and 1-2 players set individually within the 14-18 range

so not only (as the manual states) is too much creative freedom a bad thing, but so is too little.

[knap]

Oxford results with Team CF1 -the title winning team which is good but not great

BSP 1st

L2 Ist

L1 Ist

Champ 1st

Prem 12th (relegation candidate)

Prem 1st (relegation candidate)

Title winning team

GK Costil/Scribe

RB Faubert/Gilbert

CB Krystian Pearce

CB Regen/Sonko

LB Kirill/Regen

MC/DM Regen/Puri

RM Lulinha

LM Jemaa/Segia Mota(bought mid season)

AMC/MC Salomonsson

AMC/MC Buonanotte

ST Regen/Baclet/Mazzola

[mattbuck]

What tactic are you using Knap, care to share?

[Rio_V]

@Mikael H - Very interesting. I can understand why a higher CF would help many of the teams that AME tested, but I agree that Lewes is a little puzzling. At first glance, the only thing that jumps out is the Width setting of 1. It may be that setting the formation so tight counteracts mistakes that might be made using high CF for a lower league team.

Try playing a game with the Width at mixed or high and see what happens.

[Justified]

May I give my two pence worth here?

Right this is how I view CF and always have done. What I'm about to explain might be all over the place but I assure you, read through it a few times and it might begin to make sense. I'll try be a descriptive as possible.

As we all know CF and player instructions are linked. So as I see it there are three ways to go about CF and player instructions. a) you decide b) you and player have input or c) player decides. Basically what it is all about is decisions decisions decisions. Player vs Manager power. Reason why most players recommend low CF at lower league level is just because players at those levels are mindless chickens. They always seem to make the wrong decisions so we have to make it for them. If they can execute is another thing.

High CF

Risky business. If you imagine that giving high CF is almost like giving a free role except your not actually allowing him to roam all over the place, you're actually just telling him what to do when team is in possession. If I put it like this. High CF is exactly, imo, the same thing as giving the player normal CF but putting RWB, FWRD Runs, TTB, Cross Ball and Long shots all on often. So now you know what I mean by risky business. You are allowing them to do whatever they want but what if their long shot rating is poor and they decide to cut inside and try a shot. Not their fault you told them to!

Examples of players who could handle high CF really well - Gerrard, Elano, Deco, Silva and Totti. Not a lot to choose from there is there (P.S Talking about players at the start of the game)

Normal CF

Player and Manager power all at once. Many players wonder why a player with low CF, FWRD Runs and RWB often see's the player struggle when on the ball. It's all conflicting!! He doesn't know if he is coming or going! However! With more CF you're giving him the option to choose. "My manager has told me I can make FWRD Runs and RWB. Which one should I do?". Aha I see a shiny lightbulb amongst a lot of heads. You can see the massive difference between High and Normal CF straight away. You can tell the player what he can and cannot do as apposed to letting him go wild.

Any "right" player could use Normal CF as long as you are confident that he can do what you ask him. So for example if you have a player with good OTB, decisions and dribbling you could set FWRD Runs and RWB Often because he'd decide when best to use them. If he has bad decision rating you might opt to set low CF and choose if it's better for him to run forward (FWRD Runs often and RWB mixed or take players on FWRD Runs mixed and RWB Often)

Low CF

You call the shots. Tell that darn player what you want. But don't set loads of things often!! At the end of the day you can leave it to the player to decide or you do it fully. You can set a player to only do FWRD runs all day if you like. If you want my opinion it all boils down to the quality of players you have. See the decision attribute as an umbrella of many things.

[knap]

mattbuck

Tactic is available 4321

[Guest emile esteban]

lost my game with bcn to madrid 5-2!!

all my players making terrible mistakes,having nothing on the ball and no movement!not the way to go seems to me