Creative Freedom... Use Sparingly!

[pyewackett]

Great thread, its always the simplist functions, that are essential to the/your tactic.

To be honest, i've stuck with the same old tactics year in year out. I've found that I have ignored tactics that are paramount to the playing style of the tactics given.

I have completly ignored this feature, left it as default setting for the whole team. No wonder the players aren't playing real football for me.

I will start using this as soon as get home thanks for all the pointers and suggestions.

I play with this tactic. Slowish play and attacking the defense push up a little.

ST ST

CM(Farrow) CM(Farrow) CM(Farrow)

DM

LB DF DF RB

What i'll do is leave the Defenders with the lowest creative freedom, the LB & RB with slightly more creativity, but just a little.

DM he'll be just as the defender none existant creative freedom. ALL the CM's the move to Attacking midfilerds with be very creative, especially the central midlier.

Plus the Strikers will be very creative also.

Thanks again, I think this will save me from my poor run, I am managing York so I have no Gigss, or Kaka esk players will nice to see how this works, maybe it'll be total football at its best.

Thanks again. I'll post on how I got on later that is.

[thelegendof_yrag]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

I tend to keep my wingers on lower CF, sat 1-5. I just find that they tend to stick to my particular "orders" more of "cross from byline", "cross aim far post".

They're still allowed a highish "run with ball" and still have a reasonably high attacking mentality.

Hope this helps a little thelegendof_yrag, though I do use a different formation.

to be honest i think in most formations the wingers would generally be the same, looking to attack and cross the ball in although i have mine with arrows to support my lone striker, they still have defensive duties, which i think i implimented well with defensive mentallity, it's just i felt they were not putting away enough chances when the got them and i seemed to draw alot of games, maybe because of their negativity?

[heathxxx]

This is probably a conflict of styles then thelegendof_yrag.

The system I'm used is based around a more traditional 4-4-2 formation. I like wingers as wingers with my current setup, therefore their primary role is to hit the byline and put crosses in for my forwards to get on the end of.

At the moment I've got my wingers on 5 CF with a couple of saves. They keep to my game-plan more, but have a little bit of leeway, enough to get on the scoresheet themselves often enough.

Personally, I've never favoured lone-striker formations, but that's completely a matter of preference.

If you've got two wide players who are on runs with arrows into the box, it makes sense that their creative freedom will want to be higher. Essentially, they are themselves then playmakers and more centrally attacking in terms of where they're instructed to run to.

www2's tactics set is based on wide players making runs into the box, and from what I can see, his wide men are given alot more creative freedom. With this in mind though, creative freedom is kept in check in other areas to keep a better balance.

[pyewackett]

Originally posted by pyewackett:

Great thread, its always the simplist functions, that are essential to the/your tactic.

To be honest, i've stuck with the same old tactics year in year out. I've found that I have ignored tactics that are paramount to the playing style of the tactics given.

I have completly ignored this feature, left it as default setting for the whole team. No wonder the players aren't playing real football for me.

I will start using this as soon as get home thanks for all the pointers and suggestions.

I play with this tactic. Slowish play and attacking the defense push up a little.

ST ST

CM(Farrow) CM(Farrow) CM(Farrow)

DM

LB DF DF RB

What i'll do is leave the Defenders with the lowest creative freedom, the LB & RB with slightly more creativity, but just a little.

DM he'll be just as the defender none existant creative freedom. ALL the CM's the move to Attacking midfilerds with be very creative, especially the central midlier.

Plus the Strikers will be very creative also.

Thanks again, I think this will save me from my poor run, I am managing York so I have no Gigss, or Kaka esk players will nice to see how this works, maybe it'll be total football at its best.

Thanks again. I'll post on how I got on later that is.

Well, I said I would give you an update and I have. I have taken lots of advice given on here it is very effective applying the right level of creativity, also balancing the amount the player is focused on running forward staying back in defense. So much so I could clearly see the attacking style of football. In the games, admittantly I've been on a poor run, injuries silly media comments mainly by me.

But I have now slightly altered the formation from above the centre midfielder is now moved to the AM position with no arrows.

Like this, as its a 4-1-3-2 Formation.

ST ST

AM

CM (Farrow) CM (Farrow)

DM

LB CB CB RB

The players have started to gel, with tweaking the the individual and team tactics its great attacking football.

LB and RB are set to run forward a lot. With Very little creativity. Everying else is left to team instruction.

Both CB's stay back rarely go forward. With non existant creativity. With defense in mind.

The DM, has slightly more creativity. He was set to short passing removing that has been better as the team, no make much better attacking runs.

All the x3 CM/AM's have creativity on 15 + Attacking on also on 15. All are set to pass short just as the Strikers do.

Team mentality is attacking. at 13-15. The defense slighty have left at default, maybe 12 towards push up, as if I set the to 1 or 5, the opposition keep coming at me, the defense now walks more as a unit the team are much more creative with runs and defense splitting passes.

Thank you all for getting me out a right old pickle. Well fingers crossed for now.

[heathxxx]

This is why I've enjoyed discussing things like creative freedom in this thread pyewackett

There's alot of "tactics" posts in the forum, all of which have the potential to be good and work for everyone. The problem for alot of people though, is understanding the influence that team and individual sliders can have.

Any of the tactics that have been posted in the forum, or even the default FM08 tactics can work wonderfully given a few tweeks here and there. Setting instructions to suit the team, players and formations, can be a little daunting from the start for many. Hopefully threads like this helps people understand things a little better. That's the aim.

I'm a great believer that once you've taken the time to set things up for your chosen team and players, as long as things are working, you won't have to make many changes long-term, just minor tweeks here and there.

I'm currently 10 seasons into one save and have hardly changed my original tactics set. Just little things like creative freedom and attacking mentality, depending on who my opponents are.

It's always good to get feedback on how people are finding making changes like creative freedom. In the time I've played FM08, it's my opinion that the creative freedom slider is potentially one of the most influencial "tools" in creating a tactic, and how well a team works with your "orders".

Due to the feedback and interest that this thread has generated, I'm considering looking at other sliders on an individual basis, time permitting.

[pyewackett]

Well, I've been looking at another thread where there are x75 individual training shedules. Now I must re-think my training sheduals. To coincide with the introduction of actually using the tactics appropriatly/properly.

Basically. What I simply did was apply the basic approach with the creativity and freedom. Just to see what would happen.

This is what I set. Defenders were not so creative or had no freedom. Attackers were the opposite end of the extreme..... Then as the games passed by making suttle adjustments here and there.

I was thrown was what is the difference between team instructions vs individual instructions. Where as I would think as I've created specific instructions for an individual player then why would I need 'team' instructions.

Well, I watched the games and tweaked as I went a long, with team instructions being set in a vague way. Such as the team will be in an attack minded spirit defense will slightly push up. The passing will be shortish and mixed up a bit.

With the individual, instructions, making all of the difference, now I need to get my head round the training scheduals. It'll come in time. As I've think I've kind of got understanding so to speak with the creativity. Its now on to more specific training instructions.

Plus I'll stay away from commenting in the media for a bit. Moral always get burnt, when I comment

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

Due to the feedback and interest that this thread has generated, I'm considering looking at other sliders on an individual basis, time permitting.

Are you taking requests? If so, "closing down" has to be my priority. Having now understood the importance of creative freedom (either in allowing it or restricting it) in conjunction with the "free role", I am delighted at the way is attacking now.

However, I just can't see why closing down works the way it does. I believe this may be an area that will be changed in the match engine so it is perhaps not worth our while until after the patch comes out.

[Loversleaper]

Hawsheils: When you have an opponent that is playing a ultra-defensive/low tempo/high timewasting tactic you are going to have to move your sliders accordingly or your players will just stand around and look at the ball that is being passed around at the back of the opponents defense. It takes extreme slider positions to get this right and it is not just one slider we are talking about here. And on top of that you are going to need players (stats) that can cope with these measures. The patch won't fix that...

[Patrick27]

I tried using seperate creative freedom settings for my players based on their creative freedom stats. So far it has not worked for me with my two center midfielders standing there and getting robbed of the ball every time. Any ideas.

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by Loversleaper:

Hawsheils: When you have an opponent that is playing a ultra-defensive/low tempo/high timewasting tactic you are going to have to move your sliders accordingly or your players will just stand around and look at the ball that is being passed around at the back of the opponents defense. It takes extreme slider positions to get this right and it is not just one slider we are talking about here. And on top of that you are going to need players (stats) that can cope with these measures. The patch won't fix that...

That isn't the problem though. I am sure I saw that Miles had written about this somewhere (or someone from SI). It's more about how your team closes down when you don't want them to.

For example, if you set a full-back to defensive and then close down to only one notch from the very left, he will still close down right up to the half way line. I know exactly when and where it happens and I've already posted about it so I do expect something to change with this in the match engine. I believe it was caused by the quick fix to closing down in the current patch.

[Loversleaper]

One must bare in mind that a lot of what you see in the match-machine are simulated instances and I personally feel that many gamers take the match-machine a little too literly. For sure it is not perfect but at the same time it is not flawed to the extent that it is unplayable. Match stats are more important when assessing if your tactics 'hold water', because the match-machine is just a way of seeing generally how things are going. Players always have a minimum 5% chance of doing something else than instucted no matter where you have placed a slider and this percentage goes up the more Creative Freedom you give (which can be important if you want to play attacking football and break down your opposition), for example...

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by Loversleaper:

One must bare in mind that a lot of what you see in the match-machine are simulated instances and I personally feel that many gamers take the match-machine a little too literly. For sure it is not perfect but at the same time it is not flawed to the extent that it is unplayable. Match stats are more important when assessing if your tactics 'hold water', because the match-machine is just a way of seeing generally how things are going. Players always have a minimum 5% chance of doing something else than instucted no matter where you have placed a slider and this percentage goes up the more Creative Freedom you give (which can be important if you want to play attacking football and break down your opposition), for example...

I don't remember seeing anyone here claiming that the engine was unplayable !?! Have I misunderstood you? In fact, I can't remember any of the sensible posters on here having anything other than constructive debate.

Also, with regards to creative freedom I think your point is what we've been discussing on this thread for some time now. What we were doing was discussing the various times and combinations when it works best. And it's been very enlightening to see how different people use the sliders to achieve what they want.

[Loversleaper]

Sorry if I was misunderstood, but I wasn't implying that you did say it was unplayable or that anybody else did. I just, in my own simple way, suggested that since the appearance of the match-machine comes accross as flawed it might not be as flawed in game terms. When you have the sliders in the correct positions that work in conjunction with the overall tactical plan in a given game, you won't really see those 'flaws' as frequently. But remember it can also take time before your players execute given instructions and I've explained reasons for this in another thread : 'FM08 - the sliders project' by Heathxxx...

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by Loversleaper:

Sorry if I was misunderstood, but I wasn't implying that you did say it was unplayable or that anybody else did. I just, in my own simple way, suggested that since the appearance of the match-machine comes accross as flawed it might not be as flawed in game terms. When you have the sliders in the correct positions that work in conjunction with the overall tactical plan in a given game, you won't really see those 'flaws' as frequently. But remember it can also take time before your players execute given instructions and I've explained reasons for this in another thread : 'FM08 - the sliders project' by Heathxxx...

Correct. I just didn't understand your point the first time round, but that makes complete sense.

[knap]

When you have an opponent that is playing a ultra-defensive/low tempo/high timewasting tactic you are going to have to move your sliders accordingly or your players will just stand around and look at the ball that is being passed around at the back of the opponents defense. It takes extreme slider positions to get this right and it is not just one slider we are talking about here. And on top of that you are going to need players (stats) that can cope with these measures

Can you expand on this as part of the slider thread.

I have same problem with my full backs, but impressed with high cf when CB came up and scored from a throw in.

[Mizza01]

Just use it to your players strengths. If any of my playes have creativity at 16+ then I have them on high.

[thelegendof_yrag]

hawshiels, what instructions do you give your wingers and full backs?

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by thelegendof_yrag:

hawshiels, what instructions do you give your wingers and full backs?

I've now slightly tweaked this, but here are the main instructions:

My full-backs have these settings:

And my wingers have these intructions:

The difference with my new tactics are:

- I lose quite a lot of possession against weaker teams (because I let them play in their own half)

- But I keep many more clean sheets. I've only lost 3 goals this season so far.

But bear in mind that I ave picked the tactics to suit the players I have.

[thelegendof_yrag]

Do you score many? I found with my last tactic, same formation as you, i didnt concede many either, but i didnt score many so i tweeked my wingers a bit and started scoring more but conceded more too!

I'll see if this gives me a good balance...i've always had plenty of shots on target but they never convert many!

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by thelegendof_yrag:

Do you score many? I found with my last tactic, same formation as you, i didnt concede many either, but i didnt score many so i tweeked my wingers a bit and started scoring more but conceded more too!

I'll see if this gives me a good balance...i've always had plenty of shots on target but they never convert many!

Good question.

I score lots of goals against the bigger teams (Sevilla, Fiorentina, Man City, Werder Bremen, etc), but so many against the teams like (Barca, Madrid, Man Utd, etc). But the one thing you've identified is that this tactic does not lose goals/games. In my last season in La Liga, I lost only 9 goals all season. I had exactly the same goal difference as Barca (64), but they conceded 12 more goals than me - and of course scored 12 more goals.

I am quite happy (in fact delighted) with this tactic because I can play it against every team and it works. Against the weaker (very weak teams) - especially at home - I have to push the defensive line right up and close down more, but this only amounts to 3 or 4 games in an entire season so I'm happy with this level of tinkering.

As for you not scoring many, one of the key attributes in this tactic for me is the positioning and off-the-ball. When the opposition is working so hard to close your players down, I find the striker and MC->AMC needs good movement to find space to score.

[thelegendof_yrag]

i just had two 0-0 draws dominating both games, 23 shots/13 on target in one at home, 20shots/5 on target in the other which was away, after a good start with 3 wins!

[thelegendof_yrag]

Originally posted by thelegendof_yrag:

i just had two 0-0 draws dominating both games, 23 shots/13 on target in one at home, 20shots/5 on target in the other which was away, after a good start with 3 wins!

latest game a 2-0 away win v west ham 30 shots just 10 on target, seems i need to produce more quality chances, tempo is slow so it's not as though they should be rushing chances and creative freedom is toned down.

No matter what i try i just can't seem to convert my chances.

I obviously not getting a good balance?

If i send over my tactic could someone look it over for me and see what they think?

cheers

[thelegendof_yrag]

my next game has been a 0-0 away draw with sunderland. This is getting annoying now. The amount of chances im creating is unrealistic this time it was 20 shots/6 on target. Morale couldnt be any better. I'm using wolfgangs thread on teamtalks.

In the space of two seasons and the start of this one i've had twelve 0-0 draws.

I'm using your settings for creative freedom hawshiels, i also have veloso as my DMC he was a super buy!!

I thought i had my tactic near to where i wanted it when i came across this thread, i thought maybe it's the creative freedom which is why im creating so many chances and not putting enough away, but it's just not made any difference. I know it's worked for other people just it's done nothing for me, and it's left me stuck in a rut now!

I wouldn't mind as much drawing 0-0 if i created a realistic amount of chances lol!!

[Hawshiels]

Try to post your tactics and I'd be happy (as would others no doubt) to have a look at it. Veloso is great as you say, but the two key players in my formation are the MC->AMC and the wingers. I've now created tactics (using what I learned in this thread and others) that work with whatever team I go to - BUT (and it's a big one), I can have decent players in the other positions, but I always try to find someone extra special (relative to the league I am playing in) to play the MC->AMC role so that he is good enough to find space to help the striker.

Two wingers with pace (and little else really) are useful in this formation. But send in the tactics and we can take a look.

p.s. Also try to watch a game or two on full-match. It's amazing what you pick up from that.

[Loversleaper]

There's a way to get around the 0-0 issue (or drawing in general). I noticed that when I am getting a good team together, that this occurs if my overall attacking ability has a hard time breaking down my oppostions overall defending ability. I will late in the game switch to a more all-out-attack formation that includes direct-quick passing with low timewasting, high closing down (+ high defensive line) and lots of creative freedom. This usually is enough to get that needed goal to win the game. Sometimes I've had to do this for many games in a season, but it shouldn't be that neccessary once you have really a world-class side (+ you also have world-class reputation) and everything else at the club is working as it should be...

[thelegendof_yrag]

i have no where to upload it or any pics of it at the moment, could i email you it?

Good post lovesleeper, from when i watch the full match i've always got the opposition under pressure in their half, so maybe they are rushing half chance shots all of the time because they can't break the defence down. I miss alot of one on ones though, so this could also suggest i can break them down?

[Smoothiebaloo]

Hellish unrealistic... As you grow up to be a footballer you are advised to be creative.. Imagine the Ajax-youngsters in the early 90s, being told not to use their creativity???

Of course you should stick to the plan of the manager, but it shouldn't be contradicitve to being creative.

[pyewackett]

Originally posted by Smoothiebaloo:

Hellish unrealistic... As you grow up to be a footballer you are advised to be creative.. Imagine the Ajax-youngsters in the early 90s, being told not to use their creativity???

Of course you should stick to the plan of the manager, but it shouldn't be contradicitve to being creative.

I understand your point, but 'in game terms' its creating the shape of the team. Its how I see it.

[heathxxx]

It's about understanding creative freedom as applied in the game.

I understand your point smoothiebaloo about teams such as Ajax 90's in real life terms, but if you were to apply the "perceived" creative freedom of that team in FM08, I think your team would struggle to keep it's shape, be too open and concede lots of goals.

My findings with creative freedom stemmed from the manual's suggestion to limit high creative freedom to one or two players. I had seen alot of tactics on the forums that employed high creative freedom throughout their settings. I found that by setting it even as low as zero for defensive players, I had a very tight defence and a team that played "how I wanted".

Granted, zero creative freedom can be a little extreme, but I'll usually still go no further than 5 on the slider for many of my players.

I'm doing some more experimentation with individual player settings, but overall my team mentality with this slider is invariably 5 with my favoured tactics set.

The fact that this is "unrealistic" compared to < insert favoured flair team here > is irrelevant really. There are alot of real examples of teams who play to a strict game-plan with one or two key flair players.

I think that having read the 8.0.2 release information, it's now important to note the reduced effect creative freedom has with the flair attribute of a player. This would suggest to me that using creative freedom more sparingly as I've suggested at the top of this thread, is arguably now even more relevant.

For everyone else who's posted in this thread, I've not fell of the face of the earth have just been extremely busy with work.

I am still playing around with settings in the 8.0.2 version of FM08, but to get any "concrete" theories to present is taking a while longer because of the reduced "play" time I have available at present.

[lam]

Guys,

Do you think it would make sense here that if you have a team that are not to hot in the 'creative' side of the game to ensure that you have issued very specific instructions?

What i mean by this is to not really use a normal setting but more of a case of do or do not.

Just a thought!

Lee

[heathxxx]

That certainly makes sense to me, as common sense would suggest that allowing a player with very low creative attributes to have high CF, would generally not have a good outcome.

However, at lower levels I believe it's worth looking at key attributes a player has and exploit them to your benefit against opponents.

I've done this before. A good example was with a lightning fast winger I had with a lower league team once. His creativity and flair were not too hot, but his pace and acceleration were very high. Knowing that most players marking him or facing him in match situations would be pushed to keep up with him, I gave him higher than default Creative Freedom, along with high Run With Ball and high Forward Runs. Essentially I was looking to exploit his speed against my opponents and the use of higher Creative Freedom was used in tandem with other instructions. His high ratings meant he had successfully undertaken the role I set.

So effectively, you can use higher Creative Freedom on players who don't necessarily have high creativity, flair, etc, so long as you use it in tandem with other sliders and are looking for a specific role to perform as in my example. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does'nt.

[KingRoyston]

Very interesting thread and I agree that even with v.strong teams only 2 or 3 players should be left on high. One observation though -

Low CF on the majority of players only increases their performance if all the intructions YOU set them are right. i.e. low team CF can enhance a good tactic but worsen even further an imbalanced or wrongly set tactic.

I imagine there are probably be some tactics out there that have one or two settings out of balance with what works against the AI however high CF and good players can mask this as the players are not doing what the tactic tells them.

Therefore, by reducing CF and making players stick to their instructions it places even more importnace that you what you are telling them to do - very obvious really, but thought it was worth mentioning!

[Si Pie]

I'm playing as Swindon in the Premiership in 2011. Obviously have been unable to bring in the sorts of players to take me up the table, so I have been languishing near the bottom.

I've been experimenting with different formations and the instruction sliders. CF was a slider I changed (made it lower - around 7 for most players) yet still wasn't seeing much difference. I've now set it higher for my 2 more creative central midfielders and at 5 for my more creative striker. The rest are on 2/3. I can say the difference is actually remarkable thus far. Will report back when I have played a few more games.

[Si Pie]

After playing a few more games I can safely conclude that my team are just crap

[DominicForza]

Interesting thread...

I have always taken the opposite approach and given lots of CF to most of my squad.

CF is one of the areas of the (many) areas of the game that are really left unclear as how they actually work in the ME. SI may chose to keep it mysterious, but I would like to understand these things better, and I imagine those who struggle with FM would really like to know this stuff...I just figure out what works for me and stick with it.

One thing I remember reading in on of the changes for one of FM8's patch's was that they had tweaked CF to give Flair more (or was it less) effect. I have always suspected (but not known) that CF did more then was "officially" stated. I suspect that creativity, flair, decisions and perhaps anticipation and teamwork are a part of the CF formula when attacking. I have also always suspected, and operated (perhaps erroneously) that CF had an impact when defending. My anectdotal experience is that players with higher CF are more likely to slide and fill a gap in the formation and lower CF will be more rigid/static in position. Again, this is all based on my impressions.

I put GK on 0/1 CF, DCs on about 4 and FB and DMCs between 12-14. When going more defensive I may drop the FBs and DMCs. MC will be around 14-16. Wingers and FC will be 14-18. A targetman type ST will be lower...8-12.

If I have a player with low creativity, flar, decisions, etc for his position I will lower his CF and find that he usually plays much better on the lower CF, however the more creative/flair types with good decisions, anticipation and teamwork seem to do better on the higher settings (again this is in conjuction with a team set similarly).

This has not been systematically tested...my FM career has been built by stumbling on stuff that works, figuring out what I just did and why it worked and then trying to do more of it and go from there.

I will start experimenting with lower CF...am interested to see how it goes.

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by Si Pie:

After playing a few more games I can safely conclude that my team are just crap

Lol I like it.

DominicForza - CF is a VERY influential slider IMO and you can dramatically change things tactically through more considered use.

Granted, I too have higher CF when I'm managing a team like Man Utd, but only because they have a multitude of players with strong enough mental and technical attributes that they can cope with the higher CF.

Generally speaking though, I'm pretty rigid with my tactics and therefore only have high CF set on my "special" players, or alternatively during a match, if I spot a weakness in my opponents lineup, I'll rais CF of my players to exploit the weakness.

Defensively I've always gone for lower CF. This has been the foundation, in tandem with the other sliders of course, for my tactics usually not conceding many goals.

If I've got a really weak team in lower leagues, I sometimes have my whole team set from 0-5, including forwards. This though is when I'm playing with what I call "Get The Job Done" tactics.

[Barnsley FC]

I go for a combination of '0' creative freedom across the whole team but translate the Player Preferred Moves into the tactic - this seems to work well.

[paulcaulfield]

Heathxxx, this looks like a very good thread. However i am very lazy and cant be bothered to read every single reply. As i'm sure you have read many, how would you summarise this thread? Am i right in thinking that all players CF should be set at 5 barring players with high creative attributes.

[Mitja]

Originally posted by paulcaulfield:

Heathxxx, this looks like a very good thread. However i am very lazy and cant be bothered to read every single reply. As i'm sure you have read many, how would you summarise this thread? Am i right in thinking that all players CF should be set at 5 barring players with high creative attributes.

I really wouldn't put it like that. depends on many factors. your players ability vs. opponent players ability at first. let's say that heathxxx is very rigorous type of manager. typical italian school.

[The Gaffovski]

I just stick my goalie on the lowest CF possible, defensive players (FB's, CD's and DM) on lowest notch of Normal CF, and attacking players (MC's, AMR/L's and SC) on highest notch of Normal CF. Works a treat. Great flow.

[lam]

Guys,

What about the link between CF and free role?

Can you have a free role with only a little CF?

i am asking about my wingers, once in particular as i like him to move in on goal which he seems to do with free role on.

thanks

Lee

[lam]

Holy Crap !!!!

I have just implemted this lower creative freedom.

I play 4-4-2.

(assumption far left is 1)

DC 3

FB, Wings, MCD, FC(front) on team (7 - lowest normal)

MCA and FCD on lowest much (15).

I have played Man C at home and won 5-0 and have played Middlesborough away and won 5-1.

I was doing fairly well anyway (sitting 3rd in league), but this is amazing.

what a difference this makes. Its incredible to see the team doing what you want them to do.

thanks

Lee

Cant beleive i have missed this before (or ignored it being more likely)

[heathxxx]

All in all, use of CF can be quite simple to explain.

Higher creative freedom throughout the team = players who play more to their own instincts and abilities, with less focus on team instructions.

Only truly works if you have a full squad of supremely talented players who all have "decisions" attribute of 15+.

Lower creative freedom throughout the team, with a maximum of 2-3 higher creative freedom (flair, creativity, decisions) players = a team which plays more as a team than as individuals. Players focus more on key team and individual instructions and generally perform better as a unit.

In lower league games, I'll find I've not got many, if at all any, players blessed with great flair, creativity or decisions. I play low CF across the board, say no higher than 5 (from the left) on the slider.

Quality teams I'm more flexible, but still have no more than 2-3 players on CF above "default" (10 or middle of the slider), providing I've got those sort of players.

Of course, creative freedom is a "tool" which I use for tactical control of what I want my players to do.

by Mitja:

let's say that heathxxx is very rigorous type of manager. typical italian school.

First part is correct, but second part no way!! Italian football is boring IMO!! In FM however, I find I've always had better results from getting my team to play my way, rather than their way. Consider my use of lower CF as my way of making sure players stick to doing what I want them to do, with the other slider instructions.

[Larsson1888]

Hi guys

I’ve come to might own theory at the moment that might just work. Thought I would share it before I test it properly just to see what opinions are on it.

I believe Creative Freedom should be set more to the player’s ability rather than the tactic and the mental attributes of decision, creativity and flair are the main factors here. My thought was simple, why not take these three attributes and work out the average number to help set the CF.

I've only got the demo on my computer at work so using attributes from it to explain.

My current centre backs with Celtic are:

Stephen McManus= decisions 14 + creativity 9 + flair 6 = 29 then divide by 3 = 9.6

My preference would be to round it off to the lower number which obviously would be 9. My other current centre back is Ignashevich.

Ignashevich= dec 16 + cre 8 + fl 8 = 32 / 3 = 10.6 rounded off to 10.

Now both defenders would have close CF but I'd prefer them to have the same CF but you could go onto to giving them seperate CF. I would set them both to who would have the lowest which is 9.

This is just an idea and hasn’t been tested yet but I will be doing this very soon. Just interested to see what people think.

[Larsson1888]

I don't think the theory would suit centre backs but certainly other players. Other players I worked CF for were:

Ronaldinho - 19

Kaka - 17

Cristiano Ronaldo - 15

[heathxxx]

I don't believe that creative freedom works like that Larsson1888 - and working off such a formula might just confuse and mislead many people.

As I've often said, I look at creative freedom as a "control" device to let players do their own thing, regardless of team instructions with high settings, or low settings to get them to work rigidly with team and individual instructions.

I only tend to give the exceptionally skilled players higher creative freedom, though I don't base the level of the slider on a formula of attribute ratings.

Because I usually use man-marking setings for my defenders, extremely low creative freedom is important because I have strict instructions I need them to follow, I don't want them to "do their own thing", when they need to concentrate on the instructions I've set.

Creative freedom is a control tool as I see it. Players will always lean towards their PPM's (player preferred moves), regardless of any tactical settings, but alternatively you can also take advantage of good PPM's with the creative freedom slider use.

[Mitja]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

I don't believe that creative freedom works like that Larsson1888 - and working off such a formula might just confuse and mislead many people.

As I've often said, I look at creative freedom as a "control" device to let players do their own thing, regardless of team instructions with high settings, or low settings to get them to work rigidly with team and individual instructions.

I only tend to give the exceptionally skilled players higher creative freedom, though I don't base the level of the slider on a formula of attribute ratings.

Because I usually use man-marking setings for my defenders, extremely low creative freedom is important because I have strict instructions I need them to follow, I don't want them to "do their own thing", when they need to concentrate on the instructions I've set.

Creative freedom is a control tool as I see it. Players will always lean towards their PPM's (player preferred moves), regardless of any tactical settings, but alternatively you can also take advantage of good PPM's with the creative freedom slider use.

I agree here with you, except one thing. what the heck has closing down to do with creative freedom?

as a word "creative" tells, with combination to "freedom", logicly, it should instruct and tell a player, how much creative he should be on the pitch. is his role only to pass the ball to nearest player or you want him to actually do something with it- be creative. and I believe this is quite obvious on the pitch (in the game).

I really don't think creative freedom only tells a player how much you want him to follow exactly your instructions. especially not likes of closing down, tackling...it's more linked to how attacking or how much flair you want them to use.

[heathxxx]

Problem is Mitja, with the other sliders such as forward runs and run with ball, you can still have a player being highly creative with lower CF, especially taking PPM's into account.

Since the latest patch, the link between CF slider and the flair attribute have been toned down. This is why I see it more as a tool to get players to stick more rigidly to other instructions.

As for closing down... what's wrong with a centre-back "creatively" closing down the opponents goalie...

[Mitja]

sorry heath, I don't understand a word you were trying to say.

I meen FR are FR, RwB is RwB, Creative Freedom is CF. and being creative depends on many things, stats being first, PPMs...

you said: "This is why I see it more as a tool to get players to stick more rigidly to other instructions." which instructions, forward rons, RwB?

[heathxxx]

Yes Mitja, for me lower CF allows the other sliders, FR & RwB to have more impact on a player's instructions, because they will adhere to those instructions more.

"Positive" player preferred moves, PPM's can be enhanced through higher creative freedom settings IMO, but a player will always do these things anyway, even with lower creative freedom. Higher CF to me just means you're letting them use PPM's more.

Stats obviously have an influence on all slider settings, flair being one of the most important links. In the latest patch, the effect of flair with creative freedom was reduced, possibly to bring it more level with other attributes like creativity.

I still maintain though, that correct and selective individual creative freedom settings can be used as a good tool to impose your instructions more effectively on a team.