Creative Freedom... Use Sparingly!

[Cleon]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

Heh - I go for hard tackling and hope my centre-backs can give the striker a "nudge" without the ref noticing.

Can't run very fast if he's hurt can he

Ahh the era of old skool eh!!!

[Mitja]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

Heh - I go for hard tackling and hope my centre-backs can give the striker a "nudge" without the ref noticing.

Can't run very fast if he's hurt can he

lol, I would say you're italian if I didn't know you're english.

seriously, do you know, does CF affect closing down instuction also? if my defenders lack pace (mostly they do) I find only solution to them is to back off their strikers. I don't want my nelsen to press on torres and likes...

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by Mitja:

Seriously, do you know, does CF affect closing down instuction also?

Perhaps giving the defender creative freedom for closing down a single attacker allows him to decide for himself:

- Do I break the left leg or the right one?

I've looked for the "Hit him hard enough so he doesn't play longer than 5 minutes" button, but I just can't find it.

[Old Blue Eyes]

seriously, do you know, does CF affect closing down instuction also? QUOTE]

Depends on what you mean ?

Is it harder to close down a AI player that have high CF, free role ?

-Not as a rule but when facing quick creative players with high FC one should always be a bit carefull with closing down, just as in FM07

Do my players that have high CF, free role tend to ignore closing down instructions or when they try to follow them they might have wandered of, being out of position, not closing down were they should?

-Defenitly.But its also down to there Decision stat.

Pelle

[heathxxx]

Against a skillful & pacey striker, I would opt for low CF, drop the defensive line back a little. From there it's down to luck a bit, especially with a slow defender. Perhaps try one defender on tight marking with another on zonal as some form of cover.

Heh, you can tell I was a forward in my playing days, as my defensive knowledge, apart from how to beat them, is very limited.

The nearest comparison I can make here is this:

When I was 17 years old, I was having trials for Runcorn, then in the Conference. I played in a pre-season friendly against Oldham Athletic, then managed by Graham Sharp, with a decidedly "aged" Brian Kilcline in defence, marking me. Now pace and accelleration being my biggest attribute in those days, needless to say I skinned "old" Brian Kilcline throughout the first half and got on the scoresheet. Second half, they brought on an 18 year old defender who was lighning fast. He kept pace with me throughout the second half and I only managed one long-range shot at goal.

Using this real example of my own, the best I can suggest is to look quickly for a faster defender!!

Unfortunately Runcorn never signed me on permanently. I was also up against another striker for a contract, who just happened to be the chairman's son. No prizes for guessing who got a contract. From there I ended up in the Air Force for a couple of years, continued with the football, but never really pursued it seriously after leaving the forces.

[StripeySCFC]

heathxxx,

Thanks for creating a constructive thread that opens up debate about the match engine, rather than the usual "it's crap and i've had enough" threads that seem to be the norm these days.

We all know that the Match Engine has flaws but surely those flaws work both ways?

As for the CF argument. I've had a bit of a head scratcher with my game in the Championship. I've tried loas of games and built different teams with different leading attributes. I've finally decided to go down the route of pace and power with a bit of teamwork and work rate.

The Creative Freedom slider, backed by your own theories and findings is proven to be one hell of a powerful slider.

I originally set the CF to a global 10 with no special settings for indiviuals with high creativity etc. The end result being loads of posession (>55%) with loads of chances created (generally three times as many at homes and twice as many away) but I normally ended up either drawing the game 0-0, 1-1 or losing a tight game 1-0. 2-1 etc. I won the odd game obviosuly bu it was few and far between.

This was the head scratcher because my front two were Fraizer Campbell and Michael Mifsud. Supremely quick players with high finishing and decent composure. They were missing chance after chance.

Lowering the CF to around the Global 5 mark saw the posession and chances stay the same but close games were turned from defeats and draws into draws and victories.

Why?

Does the CF affect the type of pass into the strikers, thus affecting the quality of the chance or does it affect the type of shot the striker attempts? (eg. A fancy overhead kick when a simple volley will do) or both?

Either way I'm baffled yet interested!

[Mitja]

check this out, lol (I'm rovers)

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4299/451jh8.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9886/vsmanuog0.jpg

[afeckingname]

good thread!

i use it sparingly( 0-9) on everybody and high on my wingers with rwb often i find that it works best on the wingers especially if you are not asking the full backs to get forward.

[afeckingname]

This was the head scratcher because my front two were Fraizer Campbell and Michael Mifsud. Supremely quick players with high finishing and decent composure. They were missing chance after chance.

try and tell the forwards you have faith before every match, i had problems with torres at liverpool started doing this and he scored 30 goals before that i had him getting like 9 a season. just an idea anyhow could be it's just torres lol

[heathxxx]

I think what this thread is showing, given the variety of tactics and settings each of us use, is that the creative freedom slider, is indeed a powerful "controlling" tool.

It's clear that the overall effects need to functon well in tandem with the other sliders, but given examples submitted by users here, it shows that getting the "balance" of CF right, can make a big difference.

A good example is how Cleon and myself found ourselves doing the exact opposite of each other with our settings for slow tempo/short passing and high tempo/direct passing, yet we both seem to be getting good results from our respective settings. There is no right or wrong, no perfect "this is the one" setting.

What I'm hoping to gain from discussions like this, is a broader understanding for each slider. Cause and effect. Hopefully in this case with creative freedom, a better understanding with the combined input of all those that have posted, will allow us to better comprehend what the slider offers our tactics.

Having looked at all the sliders to some extent, I think that I can safely say that possibly, the creative freedom slider can have the most "powerful", tactic changing effects on FM08.

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by afeckingname:

good thread!

i use it sparingly( 0-9) on everybody and high on my wingers with rwb often i find that it works best on the wingers especially if you are not asking the full backs to get forward.

The fun thing here is that given the different tactics people use, CF can be used well to influence the differing tactics everyone uses.

You have found pisitive results clearly by using your wingers as the high creativity players, whilst your central players "toe the line" with your gameplan and possibly have lower CF settings? I'm guessing you like your team to play wide & fast, with counter attacking ticked?

I actually do the opposite and have my wingers set low CF with my current tactics. I have an AMC set high CF to get the ball out wide, then the wingers set to low CF, high run with ball, and byline crosses. I find then that my wingers don't fart about on the ball. They hit the byline and get the crosses into the danger areas for my central forwards.

This is what I love about FM, so many different ways to play the tactics, all of which can produce positive results.

[peter_b]

great discussion guys, and something i've thought about for a while

however i find myself scratching my head over this: what exactly does the CF slider measure?

is it reasonable to assume that it measures the extent to which a player or a team have the freedom to create? if it is then create what exactly?

again i think it's reasonable to assume that this means the freedom to create a goal, therefore players with a high creative freedom are given more freedom to create goals

if this is the correct understanding of how creative freedom works then it raises some interesting points

if we accept that increasing creative freedom leads to players or teams ignoring the instructions that human managers give them, then the next question is this: if players aren't using our instructions as a guide to how they play then what are they using?

i think that when we give a player or team high creative freedom we basically say 'you decide what you want to do' which is why i'm sure that a player's decisions rating is linked to their creativity rating

it's no good telling someone to decide what to do if they're very poor decision makers

the next point is this if players/teams are given a high creative freedom and are therefore ignoring the instructions we give them then how can we know what exactly they are going to do in order to create goals?

for example if we have a DMC with forward runs and run with ball set to rarely, and then we give him a high creative freedom does this mean he's going to dribble the ball a lot and get forward more? or will he do something more unexpected like drift out to the wing and attempt crosses?

how can we know? this is something that i've been trying out in my own testing, giving a centre back a high CF to see what he does

for example if you set his closing down to rarely and give him high creative freedom, is he likely to charge around the pitch closing everyone down? why would he do this? this isn't necessarily going to create goals, isn't it more likely that he'll try long balls to the strikers, or maybe make forward runs to join attacks?

will be interesting to see what everyone thinks

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by peter_b:

great discussion guys, and something i've thought about for a while

however i find myself scratching my head over this: what exactly does the CF slider measure?

is it reasonable to assume that it measures the extent to which a player or a team have the freedom to create? if it is then create what exactly?

again i think it's reasonable to assume that this means the freedom to create a goal, therefore players with a high creative freedom are given more freedom to create goals

if this is the correct understanding of how creative freedom works then it raises some interesting points

if we accept that increasing creative freedom leads to players or teams ignoring the instructions that human managers give them, then the next question is this: if players aren't using our instructions as a guide to how they play then what are they using?

i think that when we give a player or team high creative freedom we basically say 'you decide what you want to do' which is why i'm sure that a player's decisions rating is linked to their creativity rating

it's no good telling someone to decide what to do if they're very poor decision makers

the next point is this if players/teams are given a high creative freedom and are therefore ignoring the instructions we give them then how can we know what exactly they are going to do in order to create goals?

for example if we have a DMC with forward runs and run with ball set to rarely, and then we give him a high creative freedom does this mean he's going to dribble the ball a lot and get forward more? or will he do something more unexpected like drift out to the wing and attempt crosses?

how can we know? this is something that i've been trying out in my own testing, giving a centre back a high CF to see what he does

for example if you set his closing down to rarely and give him high creative freedom, is he likely to charge around the pitch closing everyone down? why would he do this? this isn't necessarily going to create goals, isn't it more likely that he'll try long balls to the strikers, or maybe make forward runs to join attacks?

will be interesting to see what everyone thinks

Good post peter_b:

The way I now believe it works is this:

1. higher creative freedom allows the player to roam around his designated position in order to receive the ball or to find space to pass the ball to someone he believes he should. You are right to assume that the success of this is dependent on his decisions, but also on his off-the-ball rating.

2. but more importantly there seems to be a percentage of the time that a player will listen to the tactics (linked to their teamwork attributes) which if they have 20 for teamwork and NO creative freedom, they will stick exactly to the tactics. However, if they have 20 for creative freedom and 1 for teamwork, they'll never stick to the tactics at all.

But what I've also been looking at is how we know what the player will do with creative freedom when they have it and what I've noticed is this:

1. Pacey players with creative freedom will run with the ball more and beat the defenders

2. Good passers will play more ambitious passes

3. Players with long shots would appear to take more long range efforts

4. Players with good crossing abilities (that have been told to cross rarely) will cross the ball more frequently

So, in other words, if I set the creative freedom to 1-5, he will use the skills that he scores 18-20 on in his attributes.

If I set it to 5-10, he will also use skills that he only has an attribute score of 15-18 on also. And so, on.

So, what I've deduced from this is that if you set creative freedom, as well as having the above effects you can tell what your player is most likely to do by what attributes he scores highest in. If this was the case all the time, it would be completely understandable and a great way to say to a player "go out and use the skills you are good at", but unfortunately there are times when a player will do something that makes you think "why the hell is he doing that?" (even with cf set to 4 or 5) which then confuses me again about how it is actually implemented. Ok, some people could argue that this happens in real life, but with any creative freedom from 15 onwards, they seem to be able to do anything they want.

I'm now of the opinion that creative freedom is best implemented with midfielders, but not for defenders or forwards.

[Mitja]

by giving someone high amount of CF it means, you give him right to take risk in his game. as I could see plyers with low CF will tend to pass the ball as their 1st option. they won't complicate things too much-> so I think CF influences passing the most. less CF more smooth.

on the other hand every team needs someone who can make something with ball, mostly it will be someone with high creativity, decision, flair rates. good technical atributes are also needed. "decide what you want to do" is the instruction.

for some postions you don't want to give them higher CF. those are GK, CB, FB, DM. they must get their job done and probably you don't want to take much risk. just pass the ball or get forward or whatever the instruction. vice versa front players are those who take responsibility for creating chances.

team quality is important factor. for example; you manage blackburn. in a match against league 2 team you could be playing on your better quality of players. you use the advantage by giving your squad hihger amounts of CF. becouse you have better players on each position then they have. vice versa in a match against arsenal you don't have that advantage. so it means you must take much less risk. basicly CF is even more attacking/defensive instruction then mentality. it's about how much risk you are willing to take.

[Mitja]

hawshiels

1. I didn't notice any difference with player's roaming around the pitch, if given high amount of CF (even though it should). free role should decide it even more then CF (unfortunatly doesn't work realy well on wingers ).

2. I don't know why forwards shouldn't have high CF? my santa cruz is best scorer in team and also best av. rating. he's on highest CF in my team. if the player's got ability it doesn't metter what is his position. if my FB was my most creative player I'd give him the highest CF. but anyway that's the metter of taste...

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by Mitja:

hawshiels

1. I didn't notice any difference with player's roaming around the pitch, if given high amount of CF (even though it should). free role should decide it even more then CF (unfortunatly doesn't work realy well on wingers ).

2. I don't know why forwards shouldn't have high CF? my santa cruz is best scorer in team and also best av. rating. he's on highest CF in my team. if the player's got ability it doesn't metter what is his position. if my FB was my most creative player I'd give him the highest CF. but anyway that's the metter of taste...

1. I'll need to check this because perhaps it is the free role check box that allows him to do this.

2. Do you have 2 forwards? I only have one and I find that if he has high creative freedom I get the "return-of-the-long-shots-itis" and he's not so good with them.

It just shows how many different options you have in the game. As heathxxx said earlier, two people can have completely different uses for the sliders but achieve success. But then, that's why FM is a such a game of opinions.

[Loversleaper]

Creative Freedom works in conjunction with your teams overall strength verses opposition's overall strength. The stronger you are compared to your opponent the more creative freedom you can use which is a tool to help unlock tight opposition defenses or a tool to help tighten up your own defense against stronger oppostion. This also applies to the rest of the sliders.

[Mitja]

[heathxxx]

Tactically speaking, the use of Creative Freedom + Free Role can be very effective.

I've got the two combined with a Man Utd save with either Rooney or Ronaldo.

The player checked with Free Rold and Creative Freedom of 15+ is extremely difficult for the AI to counter. Add to this checking the same player as a Playmaker and you have potentially an awsome weapon.

A word of warning though. To run all three aspects together, generally the player needs to be of the highest quality (within the level he's playing), and have a good squad around him.

Even if the AI adapts to "take care" of such a player and roles, it creates greater openings for other players. Having a couple of other "creative" players comes into play then.

Within this particular save, my defence and defensive midfielder are set on very low CF, so as to keep the rest of the organisation of my team tight.

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by Loversleaper:

Creative Freedom works in conjunction with your teams overall strength verses opposition's overall strength. The stronger you are compared to your opponent the more creative freedom you can use which is a tool to help unlock tight opposition defenses or a tool to help tighten up your own defense against stronger oppostion. This also applies to the rest of the sliders.

Deadly accurate

Sliders work in tandem with one-another. It's getting the balance right that's the challenging part.

[dogs]

As i posted in the 2-6-2 theory thread

i added your train of thought along with the "2-6-2" ideal to my tactic with Stalybridge in the Prem 2017, we are almost unbeatable atm.

Heres a link to jpegs showing how i incorp these into the tactic. Thanks for the original ideas.

Pics Here

[heathxxx]

Following on from what Mitja mentioned about CF with wingers.

I think this depends on the formation, tactics and what you expect of the wide players.

For me and my preference for the 4-4-2 formation and it's variants, I like to have more orthodox wide players or "wingers".

For me their key role is to hit the byline and provide crosses into and around the box. I don't want them to cut in or take long shots. Setting their CF to 5 or less means they stick to my "orders". A higher CF and they will noticably stray from my "orders".

Examples of formations would be a streight 4-4-2 with wide players occupying the ML,MR or AML, AMR positions, with "farrows" to the byline.

When I've played with a single front-man or a main striker, I want my wider players to be more creative and support the efforts on goal more. I give them higher CF to let them have more freedom to create openings or attack the opposing defence.

This sort of formation would be along the lines of an AML, AMR, a CM or AMC, with a lone ST. The lone striker set to low CF so he's always on the end of chances. The MC or AMC set to default CF to be the linking player between defence and attack.

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by dogs:

As i posted in the 2-6-2 theory thread

i added your train of thought along with the "2-6-2" ideal to my tactic with Stalybridge in the Prem 2017, we are almost unbeatable atm.

Heres a link to jpegs showing how i incorp these into the tactic. Thanks for the original ideas.

Pics Here

Well done with Stalybridge Celtic there dogs - it just goes to show you can still take a non-league team all the way to the top with time and patience. I noticed the season date you were up to

[Joor]

Originally posted by Loversleaper:

Creative Freedom works in conjunction with your teams overall strength verses opposition's overall strength. The stronger you are compared to your opponent the more creative freedom you can use which is a tool to help unlock tight opposition defenses or a tool to help tighten up your own defense against stronger oppostion. This also applies to the rest of the sliders.

Well said . In the patch notes I found this line ;

- Enhanced effect on flair of "creative freedom" slider slightly.

And

- Changed pass risk assessment to reflect mentality setting and flair a little more.

Does this make sence ? YES

[Cleon]

1. higher creative freedom allows the player to roam around his designated position in order to receive the ball or to find space to pass the ball to someone he believes he should. You are right to assume that the success of this is dependent on his decisions, but also on his off-the-ball rating.

No that is free role not creative freedom. Creative freedom is what a player does when he has the ball. Freerole is what he does when he doesn't have the ball.

All CF does is lets the player have control over what passes, shots, running with ball, tricks etc he might try. Or determines what space he might try and create when in possession.

[heathxxx]

I'm currently playing with the CF in conjunction with the tactical suggestions and settings, though not particularly the formation, discussed in this thread:

The 2-6-2-Rule. An Approach To Creating Tactics In FM 08.

This is an excellent and well thought out thread and definately worth looking at, if you have'nt already.

The principals discussed make for a very tight system of tactics, that seem to get the best out of all areas of a similarly based formation.

The only difference with the formation I'm using is that it's very similar to one called "Fiora2" that's on the forum here somewhere.

As with any tactical suggestions though, they should always be approached as a guideline that can be adapted to suit your own teams strengths and weakness' and the suitability of your playing staff.

I've always had a preference for 4-4-2 based formations myself and the nearest I've got to one man up-front is a lone striker and an AMC/ST with a "Farrow" to the striker position.

[Hawshiels]

F A N T A S T I C !!!

Thanks for this thread guys [Not had a chance to look at the 2-6-2 rule thread yet but I will].

Having taken everything into account, I decided to start a new game right at the start again with Valencia. I had never won the league with Valencia in the first season before (Barca always ran away with it), but I am the "wonder maker" according to Ranieri. I have won everything - nothing more convincingly than the 6-1 drubbing of Inter in the final of the Champions League. And I have to say .... I owe it to this thread because I'm now using creative freedom much more effectively (despite being mixed up earlier about the difference between creative freedom and free role - thank Cleon). I have lost a few and a few more goals along the way, but that's because of my mismanagement of the morale through the media no doubt (I still hate that part).

My formation is this (and this is largely the team I won everything with).

And this is the creative freedom setting (up to reading this thread, everything was on normal, but it meant too many compromises defensively).

I am sure this thread has helped many other, but thanks from me personally.

p.s. Did I mentioned 6-1 against Inter IN THE FINAL ???

[Hawshiels]

Ooops.

Formation

Creative Freedom settings

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by Hawshiels:

F A N T A S T I C !!!

Thanks for this thread guys [Not had a chance to look at the 2-6-2 rule thread yet but I will].

Having taken everything into account, I decided to start a new game right at the start again with Valencia. I had never won the league with Valencia in the first season before (Barca always ran away with it), but I am the "wonder maker" according to Ranieri. I have won everything - nothing more convincingly than the 6-1 drubbing of Inter in the final of the Champions League. And I have to say .... I owe it to this thread because I'm now using creative freedom much more effectively (despite being mixed up earlier about the difference between creative freedom and free role - thank Cleon). I have lost a few and a few more goals along the way, but that's because of my mismanagement of the morale through the media no doubt (I still hate that part).

My formation is this (and this is largely the team I won everything with).

And this is the creative freedom setting (up to reading this thread, everything was on normal, but it meant too many compromises defensively).

I am sure this thread has helped many other, but thanks from me personally.

p.s. Did I mentioned 6-1 against Inter IN THE FINAL ???

Happy this thread has helped you out. It's the "understanding" generated that I'm looking for and the input of the posts here has helped me re-evaluate CF alot more too.

2-6-2 rule thread by zagallo is a MUST READ in my opinion. One of the best I've read in a long time.

The formation is not the main thing to consider, but the principals of the tactical settings, which are discussed in great detail.

Here's a link to the thread.

The 2-6-2-Rule. An Approach To Creating Tactics In FM 08.

It certainly get's my vote as the best thread on the Tactics & Training forum at the moment. It's proof that just downloading a user submitted tactic (as it's not downloadable ), that matters - it's understanding what the settings do that's the key to tactical jiggery-pokery with FM08.

[Mitja]

I only play formations which AI also plays, I don't think it's fair....but the metter of taste.

[Mitja]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hawshiels:

F A N T A S T I C !!!

Thanks for this thread guys [Not had a chance to look at the 2-6-2 rule thread yet but I will].

Having taken everything into account, I decided to start a new game right at the start again with Valencia. I had never won the league with Valencia in the first season before (Barca always ran away with it), but I am the "wonder maker" according to Ranieri. I have won everything - nothing more convincingly than the 6-1 drubbing of Inter in the final of the Champions League. And I have to say .... I owe it to this thread because I'm now using creative freedom much more effectively (despite being mixed up earlier about the difference between creative freedom and free role - thank Cleon). I have lost a few and a few more goals along the way, but that's because of my mismanagement of the morale through the media no doubt (I still hate that part).

My formation is this (and this is largely the team I won everything with).

And this is the creative freedom setting (up to reading this thread, everything was on normal, but it meant too many compromises defensively).

I am sure this thread has helped many other, but thanks from me personally.

p.s. Did I mentioned 6-1 against Inter IN THE FINAL ???

Happy this thread has helped you out. It's the "understanding" generated that I'm looking for and the input of the posts here has helped me re-evaluate CF alot more too.

2-6-2 rule thread by zagallo is a MUST READ in my opinion. One of the best I've read in a long time.

The formation is not the main thing to consider, but the principals of the tactical settings, which are discussed in great detail.

Here's a link to the thread.

The 2-6-2-Rule. An Approach To Creating Tactics In FM 08.

It certainly get's my vote as the best thread on the Tactics & Training forum at the moment. It's proof that just downloading a user submitted tactic (as it's not downloadable ), that matters - it's understanding what the settings do that's the key to tactical jiggery-pokery with FM08. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this one is by far the best on this forum

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

It's proof that just downloading a user submitted tactic (as it's not downloadable ), that matters - it's understanding what the settings do that's the key to tactical jiggery-pokery with FM08.

Agreed My formation and tactics will probably not suit any (many other) teams. The difference now is that I can set up a formation and I'll know what to set the sliders to - especially creative freedom. I just can't believe I left this alone since FM06 came out. It actually makes a huge difference in some games if used correctly, but more importantly as I've found out, if used incorrectly with defenders it can have a terrible affect on the tactics. I have spent ages on the defensive side (especially with full-backs) and yet I solved around 60% of it by adjusting the CF settings alone.

And of course, we are all just coming to terms with this engine .... and in a few weeks it will be changed. But we all know that's a good thing.

[felon]

I think the 'creative freedom' idea is flawed. Why is it that my DM-Flamini seems to be they one playing all my key passes and killer balls even when i set his creative freedom to 2. I mean..his passes are amazing. On the other hand, all fabregas seems to do with a creative freedom of about 17 is take long shots and have absolutely rubbish games. Sort it out si

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by felon:

I think the 'creative freedom' idea is flawed. Why is it that my DM-Flamini seems to be they one playing all my key passes and killer balls even when i set his creative freedom to 2. I mean..his passes are amazing. On the other hand, all fabregas seems to do with a creative freedom of about 17 is take long shots and have absolutely rubbish games. Sort it out si

I sometimes wonder if guys like this read the thread before posting on it

This guy had a moan on another forum and mitja quite rightly directed him here to help him out. But alas, all he did was come here and ..... have another moan. Anyway, back to the subject at hand please.

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by felon:

I think the 'creative freedom' idea is flawed. Why is it that my DM-Flamini seems to be they one playing all my key passes and killer balls even when i set his creative freedom to 2. I mean..his passes are amazing. On the other hand, all fabregas seems to do with a creative freedom of about 17 is take long shots and have absolutely rubbish games. Sort it out si

Depends what the other settings for these players is really. When I've been fortunate enough to have Fabregas in one of my teams, as with any other player of that calibre, I tend not to go too extreme with creative freedom.

For the non-creative players, I am more extreme, but with my creative/flair players I'll usually look for between default of 10CF up to a maximum of 15CF. Anything else is a license for that player to completely ignore your gameplan altogether IMO.

If you're team is'nt playing to any gameplan, it's usually going to fall apart somewhere...

[Mitja]

Originally posted by felon:

I think the 'creative freedom' idea is flawed. Why is it that my DM-Flamini seems to be they one playing all my key passes and killer balls even when i set his creative freedom to 2. I mean..his passes are amazing. On the other hand, all fabregas seems to do with a creative freedom of about 17 is take long shots and have absolutely rubbish games. Sort it out si

hmmm... but it defenetly isn't a stupid moan, I think. this is very interesting to me, if he's not lying. and I don't think he is...

I mean if someone deserves to have high CF, that's cesc.

[Mitja]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by felon:

I think the 'creative freedom' idea is flawed. Why is it that my DM-Flamini seems to be they one playing all my key passes and killer balls even when i set his creative freedom to 2. I mean..his passes are amazing. On the other hand, all fabregas seems to do with a creative freedom of about 17 is take long shots and have absolutely rubbish games. Sort it out si

Depends what the other settings for these players is really. When I've been fortunate enough to have Fabregas in one of my teams, as with any other player of that calibre, I tend not to go too extreme with creative freedom.

For the non-creative players, I am more extreme, but with my creative/flair players I'll usually look for between default of 10CF up to a maximum of 15CF. Anything else is a license for that player to completely ignore your gameplan altogether IMO.

If you're team is'nt playing to any gameplan, it's usually going to fall apart somewhere... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[heathxxx]

To be fair, I've always struggles to get what I think, is the "best" out of Ronaldo at Man Utd.

Perhaps it's because I tried to emulate with him, what he is currently acheiving for real with Man Utd.

The difference here, and it's a big one, is that it's a game. No matter how good a simulation it is, you have to play with an understanding of the match engine and work accordingly with it.

[Loversleaper]

felon

Amateur

Registered: 21 May 2007 Posted 30 January 2008 16:47 I think the 'creative freedom' idea is flawed. Why is it that my DM-Flamini seems to be they one playing all my key passes and killer balls even when i set his creative freedom to 2. I mean..his passes are amazing. On the other hand, all fabregas seems to do with a creative freedom of about 17 is take long shots and have absolutely rubbish games. Sort it out si

You can use high creative freedom on a player like Fabregas, but you I think also that you can't use it in every match. Using too high creative freedom against strong opponents will cause your team some difficulties in the same manner as using to low creative freedom against weaker opponents also has it's effects. My interpretation is that one can determine generally how to implement the sliders (such as Creative Freedom) when looking at the pre-match odds. I also take into account that teams playing at Home-Ground are generally stronger than they would be away from home (my own theory about 25% stronger).

Generally it is better for your team to play Global Creative Freedom (except your Goalkeeper, he should always have very low CF), but if you are going to split them individually then I would restrict them to your forward(s) or attacking midfielder(but then he must be postioned further forward than the normal midfield line). Central midfielders are the 'motor' of the team and they need to stick to the teams overall gameplan to enforce it, whereas further forward they can be a little less tactical because they are more positioned in areas where you can 'afford' a few mistakes here and there and your team has a better chance of 'righting the wrongs' (so to say) with a 'battling midfield and defense'...

[heathxxx]

Very good shout Loversleaper

The locations or positions of the "creative" players is very important.

In the FM08 match engine, central or defensive midfielders, are more of an "engine" as you say. Hence why many post that their "star" midfielder is not neccessarily getting high ratings.

He's performing a role, that role is to support both the defence and attack. If he scores, his rating is invariably higher.

For me, if the team performs well, they win and their rating is above 7, it's not an issue for me. I think alot of people expect a player like Gerrard or Fabregas to rate 8+ in every game, but within the current match engine, it's not going to happen.

[Loversleaper]

heathxxx

Amateur

Very good shout Loversleaper

The locations or positions of the "creative" players is very important.

In the FM08 match engine, central or defensive midfielders, are more of an "engine" as you say. Hence why many post that their "star" midfielder is not neccessarily getting high ratings.

He's performing a role, that role is to support both the defence and attack. If he scores, his rating is invariably higher.

For me, if the team performs well, they win and their rating is above 7, it's not an issue for me. I think alot of people expect a player like Gerrard or Fabregas to rate 8+ in every game, but within the current match engine, it's not going to happen.

I had also difficulties with the performances of my central midfieders in terms of match-ratings to start out with. It's going much better now that I have started to implement free-roles on my wingers. The theory behind this is that the wingers move differently alowing the central midfiedlers to get more into postions so they score more fre4quently and generally contribute more in the attacking side of your game (assists/key passes). It also resulted in my wingers scoring more goals as they were getting into more dangerous postions (especially in the formations that have f-arrows on wingers to opposition's byline)...

[heathxxx]

I'm thinking I'll try and post some of my findings with a variety of formations tomorrow.

Have tested different creative freedom settings with different formations, along with a few "test" saves. These test saves covered English Premiership, English Blue Square North and Spanish La Liga.

I've been having a go with my own tactical system, plus a couple of popular ones downloaded from the forum here.

Thing is, www2 has just popped his latest offering up for us all to try, so I'll have to run a test with that one too!

This time of work with my leg injury is being put to good use after all, though my wife does'nt think so.

[peter_b]

i've been testing a few things out and have one or two initial findings that prove interesting

i played a game setting everyone's creative freedom to 1, extreme left on the slider

then i changed the creative freedom of one of my central defenders to 20, extreme right on the slider

he has a creativity rating of 5 and a decisions rating of 5. the result? nothing really happened

no hopeful long balls to my strikers, no attempts at dribbling the ball out of defence, no forward runs to support the attack. this is to be expected though, a player with such low creativity is probably going to be devoid of ideas.

however i was surprised that although his creative freedom was so high it didn't affect his defensive role, or the defensive stability of the team. he didn't get out of position, or close down too far up the pitch.

does this suggest that setting a player to high creative freedom doesn't necessarily mean they will ignore their instructions?

the only thing i noticed was that he seemed to 'want the ball' more, if that makes any sense. and at one point i got the following in the text commentary:

'<player name> looks really fired up for this!'

this came just after he'd tackled the opposing striker. this got me thinking that maybe a high creative freedom does more than just instruct your players to do what they want, it also gives them a boost in confidence, it says to them, i trust your ability so much that i'll let you play however you think is best.

i decided to try something else, i replayed the game, same tactical setup, same team etc, except this time i set everyone's creative freedom to dead centre on the slider, and kept the same central defender to a creative freedom of 20

needless to say the team played much better, there were more players trying through balls, or crossing the ball or making forward runs, you could say there was much more variation in their attacking play

however i did see a reduction in my possession due to my players giving the ball away more, and an increase in offsides, probably due to more players making forward runs

although again, it seemed as though the players were more confident and were playing almost without inhibition.

what i found interesting was that the wide men who were told to cross the ball were doing so, and the central midfielders who were told to try through balls were also doing this, but to a greater extent.

the players were trying more than they had been asked. their individual settings were exactly the same in the previous game when they had a creative freedom of 1 and they hadn't tried to do half the things they tried in this game.

so now i think a high creative freedom almost releases players from their inhibitions, allowing them to express themselves the way they want through the instructions they've been given.

players with a high creativity rating will respond better in such situations, those with a low rating, like my central defender, won't know what to do

[peter_b]

just tested something else

i'm suggesting that a high creative freedom releases players to play the way they've been asked to play without fear of making mistakes or losing possession

in my test games where my central defender had a creative freedom of 20 he wasn't doing anything, but i realised he wasn't being asked to do anything but defend, all his sliders (forward runs, try through balls etc) were set to rarely

so i played a third game, everyone on creative freedom of 1, except my central defender with a creative freedom of 20 and this time i set his forward runs to often

however at the end of the first half he hadn't made any forward runs at all, so i lowered it back to rarely and upped run with ball to often, still nothing

i had another look at the game where the whole team were playing with creative freedom set to the centre of the slider and my central defender on 20

my right back had played well in that previous game, getting a match rating of 8 and making almost 60 passes, even though his creativity rating is only 5 as well

very confusing, until i spotted a difference between my centre back and right back. my right back has a bravery rating of 19, my centre back 10

i think it may be possible that a player's bravery rating also impacts on how they respond to a high creative freedom

a player with low creativity but high bravery will still be brave enough to try different things when given a high creative freedom

this may explain the previous post on why flamini plays better than fabregas

i experience similar problems with my central midfielders,

one has tackling of 15 and a bravery of 18 with creativity of 5 so i always give him a low creative freedom and try through balls set to rarely

the other has passing 16 and creativity 13 but a bravery of 10, so i always give him a high creative freedom and try through balls set to often

however i consistently find that my defensively minded midfielder attempts and makes more passes than my offensively minded midfielder and gets higher match ratings

i'll definitely be testing a few other things to see if i'm on to something here

[afeckingname]

although again, it seemed as though the players were more confident and were playing almost without inhibition.

have you ever tried telling a striker you have faith before a match? its like a creative freedom boost and nearly always bags a goal early and a good one too. it works with nearly all attacking players. not all the time but a good percentage of it. its like saying you have faith is giving them 20 creative freedom without actually doing it.

[Law_Man]

Originally posted by felon:

I think the 'creative freedom' idea is flawed. Why is it that my DM-Flamini seems to be they one playing all my key passes and killer balls even when i set his creative freedom to 2. I mean..his passes are amazing. On the other hand, all fabregas seems to do with a creative freedom of about 17 is take long shots and have absolutely rubbish games. Sort it out si

CF = Low

Flamini will try and do what you've told him to do.

CF = high

Fabregas will try and do anything he likes. Usually this comes down to long shots in the current engine. Make sure you set him to long shots rarely, through balls often and lower his CF a little.

[Joor]

peter_b check your player flair.

From patch notes;

- Enhanced effect on flair of "creative freedom" slider slightly.

- Changed pass risk assessment to reflect mentality setting and flair a little more.

So even tho your DC has 20 creative freedom, he wont do anything special if hes flair and mentality is very low.

[heathxxx]

I'm still running some tests in tandem with the threads by zagallo, Cleon and www2.

Sorry for not getting back with any "latest" findings yet.

[thelegendof_yrag]

Originally posted by Hawshiels:

Ooops.

Formation

Creative Freedom settings

Hawshiels, what sort of instructions are you using for your full backs and wingers? And the team in generall? Im using the same formation and i started off with wingers mentality to defensive so they help the full backs, but i wasn't scoring many goals compared to chances, so i change this to attacking, which leads to conceading a few more, bearing in mind before defensively i was solid.

After reading this thread im wondering if it would work keeping them on attacking but lowering creative freedom ?

[heathxxx]

I tend to keep my wingers on lower CF, sat 1-5. I just find that they tend to stick to my particular "orders" more of "cross from byline", "cross aim far post".

They're still allowed a highish "run with ball" and still have a reasonably high attacking mentality.

Hope this helps a little thelegendof_yrag, though I do use a different formation.