Creative Freedom... Use Sparingly!

[Finknottle]

It would be greatly appreciated if someone with good tactical knowledge looked at my previous post, about 5 or 6 above this one and could offer some advice on how best to improve the situation. Kind regards to all.

[Burst]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Burst:

don't know about this. I've done 20 test games, playing 10 with 6CF and 10 with 20CF. The 6CF games ended 1W 7D 2L 4GF 9GA and the 20CF games ended 6W 3D 1L 17GF 6GA. So far i can't see where this lower CF works.

What team and level are you playing as Burst?

Did you lower/raise CF for all your first 11, or as suggested, leave your best creative/flair players with high CF?

I usually find that extremely high, 20CF turns my team into a bunch of headless chickens, but then again, you might have alot of Brazillians or the football equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters, which would help of course.

It sounds as if you set all your first 11 to low or high CF, rather than as suggested in the earlier posts. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

If you've set all players to high or low CF, it's not going to work, because it's too extreme either way.

The key here is 2-3 maximum players set to "reasonably high, say 15CF, with the rest set to 6 or below.

If you've set all your players to high CF, then you need to have high creative attributes throughout your squad, even your defenders, to have any sustainable success. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My bad i thought i did have two players on 12CF in my 6CF test but looks like i didn't.

Something i've started testing is adding a players creativity + decisions, then dividing it by 2 (16C+14D/2=15CF) the only downside is you feel like your playing with a spreadsheet rather then managing a football team.

[Hawshiels]

I'm so glad we had this creative freedom discussion here, because it's helped my tactics so much. I had't revisited this slider since it messed up my tactics in FM06 (as I said earlier), but I went back and set the following creative freedom (notches from extreme left):

DCs, DL and DR - 1

DMC - 3

MCs - 4

AML, AMR - 6

FC - 8

My games since look like this:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

Opposition Score Shots On-target Possession

Deportivo 3-0 9 7 54%

Dinamo (CL) 4-0 10 8 49%

Mallorca 3-0 7 6 58%

Barcelona 2-0 10 7 57%

Real Madrid 1-0 8 6 55%

Valladolid 3-1 12 8 59%

Sevilla 6-0 15 11 61%

Recreativo 3-0 11 7 51%

Murcia 1-0 9 6 57%

</pre>

I realise that this is not a good enough test, but it's a good indicator of what is happening by reducing the creative freedom. Maybe I should have realised that revisiting this was a good idea before now. But never mind, it seems to be working so thanks for the guidance guys and thank you heathxxx for raising the subject again.

p.s. I play as Valencia

[Mitja]

very interesting hawshiels. I'm suprised. but you could also post some resoults before you changed CF.

I was thinking a little about this metter. I understand CF like this. if you don't give any CF to your player, you don't want him to improvise things, he also needs to play directly by instructions, right. via versa, by giving him all CF you tell him he can play just like he wants, bypassing orders at any time. so the pre set CF on the slider (10) is smth between, but I can't tell exactly what I wonder how AI handles CF?

[Cleon]

I'm pretty sure the AI limits CF to just 2 players really. I think the AI uses CF to turn games around from what I've seen over the years. Id say the AI managers use between 0-10 for rest of the players.

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by Mitja:

very interesting hawshiels. I'm suprised. But you could also post some results before you changed CF.

I did have pretty good tactics before I changed so it's not as if I have suddenly turned losses into wins. I was winning games anyway, but what this has done is two things:

1. It has made the games flow much more the way I expected them to. In other words, the team is playing to the tactics I set - albeit there are still some real frustrations in there that need to be sorted out.

2. It has reduced the number of goals I am conceding. I am only in the middle of November so there is still a long way to go but I've only lost 3 goals in the league so far. Adn the goals I have lost have been from set pieces which I'd expect to happen anyway.

The reason I decided to change the tactics was to try to reduce the number of goals I conceded but also to try to work out why the full-backs didn't do what I wanted them to. It seems to work, but I'll compare against last leason when I get to the end of this season. I will post back the end of season results. However I can tell you that if I can reduce the number of goals conceded from 16 to 10 .... I'll be delighted as this is a major difference that I didn't think I'd be able to achieve.

[heathxxx]

Thanks for everyone for having a look at this.

I'm perhaps going to be posting a little more actively over the next few days...

...I had a bit of an accident at work this morning I somehow managed to loose my footing on a ladder, slipped and raked my shin on a breeze block below. Having thought I had just grazed my leg, I rolled up my trouser leg and found myself looking at my actual shinbone, having flensed a large patch of skin through to the bone.

Suffice to say that fortunately the Spanish healthcare system is excellent. Into the hospital and dealt with immediately. No serious tissue damage apart from a jagged 7 inch angled tear, resulting in a large amount of stitches and alot of painkillers.

Therefore is some of my resultant posts don't make the best of sense - blame the 650mg painkillers.

[heathxxx]

My first response to the many posts is regarding the defensive qualities I noticed whilst using zero or low CF

When using low CF, it seems that I rarely concede goals and have even gone on runs of over ten matches without conceding, even with relatively poor teams.

On the basis of having no more than three high CF players, I've found that my team plays more fluidly and more to my orders.

What I see represented by the 2d match engine, is players passing the ball more quickly (often to the creative players), less passes going stray and therefore very high possession.

Now most of the time, I like to play passing based tactics at better teams and more direct at the lower levels. With both "styles" I've noted far better possession and far more opportunities created on goal.

When I play wingers, I see them cross the ball far more often with low CF, than with high CF. They look to put the ball into the box for the strikers.

Perhaps accidentally, I've stubled onto something here that helps defensively. I say accidentally because most of my tactican experimentations in the past, have been based on the theory that I "will" score more goals than my opponent. Bst form of defence is attack and all that.

Through the lower CF, especially for defenders and defensive midfielders, I see far less errors as my defence seem to get the ball forward and away from danger alot better.

I was interested in your point Cleon regarding what AI managers do creatively. If "human" managers can cancel the AI decisions out, then we're always within an opportunity to "beat" the AI. This is where the other sliders come into play. Something I'm experimenting additionally with.

I live in the glimmer of hope that through step-by-step methods of tackling one area at a time, collectively as posters on the forums, we can come up with something that although never "Diablo-esque", can educate the masses on effective slider use, regardless of particular formations and styles of play.

[heathxxx]

only downside is you feel like your playing with a spreadsheet rather then managing a football team.

Burst - I like the more in-depth tactical settings personally, but hear what your saying. I do appreciate that it's difficult possibly for SI to make the sliders more pleasing to the eye. They have added to the sliders what the effect is in text form though, so that's a start.

The series has come on leaps and bounds. Getting tactics right is also possibly harder these days too, hence alot of confusion and discord for many players.

Hopefully via discussions like this and many others of late, we can all learn a thing or two and get the best out of a superb game.

[Hawshiels]

Guys,

I've been doing really well, but then got into trouble for two games in a row. I had found up to this point that I could play the same formation and almost the same tactics regardless of who I played against and I would still win well. However, during both games I lost I just couldn't "create" anything anywhere near as fluidly as I had been up to then.

I now think we are really on the right lines with this, but I also think I need to tweak the tactics more for poor pitch conditions (i.e. wet pitches and very small pitches) because I am sure this was the problem.

Anyone else found this to happen with lower creative freedom?

[heathxxx]

I think it's always the case that when you're struggling, as someone mentioned earlier, that upping CF can often help.

For me I find that this is more effective when used with the midfielders and forwards.

I don't tinker with my tactics much TBH, since I've got settings that work well for me. I have faith that my team can come back from behind by sticking to my framework of tactics. Sometimes though, you have to be bold and loosen the leash of one or two more players.

One of the big influences when a team loses, and it happens to everyone, is paying attention to morale also. Being less harsh with the team seems to help considerably when morale drops.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Hawshiels:

Guys,

I've been doing really well, but then got into trouble for two games in a row. I had found up to this point that I could play the same formation and almost the same tactics regardless of who I played against and I would still win well. However, during both games I lost I just couldn't "create" anything anywhere near as fluidly as I had been up to then.

I now think we are really on the right lines with this, but I also think I need to tweak the tactics more for poor pitch conditions (i.e. wet pitches and very small pitches) because I am sure this was the problem.

Anyone else found this to happen with lower creative freedom?

Could be the passing, if the pitch condition is poor play more direct.

I was interested in your point Cleon regarding what AI managers do creatively. If "human" managers can cancel the AI decisions out, then we're always within an opportunity to "beat" the AI. This is where the other sliders come into play. Something I'm experimenting additionally with.

Exactly.

[Mitja]

I did a little test on my last frendly:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5554/crfrsf7.jpg

I watched full match of course. as you say heatxxx. my left side's passing was more fluent, players don't think too much, they just play it. (maybe I found the soulution for MC's making cyrcles ). and that is the most obvious thing I noticed. apart from that I also noticed that when you set RwB instruction, I didn't notice much difference. CF doesn't influence it (as I could see it). also player's don't take any risk with low CF. this was small test on just 1 match, so it doesn't proove anything...

buy the way match ended like this:

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4719/llanellihj0.jpg

[Jase1982]

If you put players on this and then watch the 2d engine you can see sometimes a player gets the ball and is stuck on what to actually do with the ball. He might just stand there and look lost, rather than attempting to make a pass.QUOTE]

Might this also possibly mean that their are'nt enough attacking options for your midfielder, so he dwells on the ball far too long? Something to do with mentality posibly?

This does also happen to me though, but I see it as a problem that may have more than one resolution and cause...

[Burst]

I'm still not sure about this low CF, i find i concede a lot more and in turn lose more. Normally i play the whole team on CF10 and three players on CF15-18, this way i've only lost once this season and on average i concede 1-2 goals less a game then i did testing the low CF.

[Hawshiels]

Here is a very simple comparison between two seasons. It shows the improvement between the 2012/13 season and the 2013/14 season on my game.

Two things I must point out before you compare them are:

1. I sold 3 of my experienced players and replaced them with good younger prospects (MC, AMR and DR positions)

2. The only change I made to the tactics was to replace the team setting of creative freedom (Normal) to individuals settings ranging from 1 for defenders through to 8 for my FC.

Season 2012/13

Played 38 games

Scored 86 goals

Conceded 16 goals

Goal difference 70

Position - 1

Season 2013/14

Played 38

Scored 80 goals

Conceded 11 goals

Goal difference 69

Points 106

Position - 1

You may now see an improvement in the goals conceded which helped secure more points, however the real story in this latest season can only be told when you look at the Champions League campaign.

I went through the whole campaign and only lost 4 goals. In the previous season, I conceded 11. So, what this indicates to me (can't be proven until I play a few more seasons and maybe even start a new game from the start) is that dropping the creative freedom is very important to maintain position and discipline against the stronger teams in the game. I now play Barca and Real Madrid and am disappointed at losing a goal. Man Utd (semi finals) and Inter (final) both failed to score against me and yet they have arguably the best strike forces in the game.

p.s. The ratings of my players has gone up by about 0.4 on average this season but I don't know how important this is.

[Hawshiels]

p.s. I had 99 points during the 2012/13 season.

[micro-ice]

the football my team is playing is fantastic. and henry cant stop scoring now.

[heathxxx]

I think the key here is that use of CF is one of many tactical attributes that with the right balance, can have a big impact on performance.

A few people have mentioned the mentality of the players with low CF settings. For my own part, my teams play more attacking and passing football. In the lower leagues, I play more direct though.

At this point, I should add that I have had the opportunity to review a few of my saves more today, what with injuring my leg this morning ( ouch!! - I'll refrain from posting some photos of the injury though ), and will have the opportunity to look even deeper over the time I'm off work.

Perhaps an influence in my own findings can be linked to the "type" of players I try to sign.

One glaringly obvious attribute which was common throughout all my teams in the saves I reviewd, was that the absolute lowest "Teamwork" attribute of any player was 10. It's always been a focal point of player signings that they have at least reaonably strong mental attributes. This has clearly in my opinion, another reason for my teams "unity".

Having tested a few matches in the saves I have, altering the CF, yet not changing any of my other settings, so the outcomes offer a more balanced examination, I can for certain put the zero CF for certain players working well, down to their good mental attributes. I tested this out with my youth team, who are still "growing" mentally, and noticed one or two occasions where a player "froze" as has been noted by a few of you. I would therefore ask you to look at the players mental attributes when you notice the "freezing" on the ball, and let me know what the overview of their mental attributes is in relation.

With the testing I've done today, I have decided, in agreement with those of you that have given this some feedback, that generally speaking, zero CF is in fact possibly a bit extreme for me to broadly say it will work for every team and their players. I would still stick with the theory that a maximum of 5 CF for non creative players, does help to produce higher possession, more opportunities, better interplay between your "blobbies" (players ), and leads to less goals conceded. I will still only have about 2 players given high CF of between 10-15, possibly a third when I'm using two strikers, one of whom has a single "barrow" so he can collect the ball from deep. This player in this role, I always look for the "preferred move" attribute - "Likes to come deep" (or whatever it is).

A bit more from me tomorrow then, once I've tested some things a little more. Time for me to munch another painkiller as my leg's starting to smart again heh!

[Dirty_ACE]

This is a very interesting subject. Something I'll try to experiment in my game too. However, what if your team contains many players who are quite creative and overall have good mental stats, like Barcelona for example? Lets say you have Ronaldinho, Messi, Deco, Iniesta, and Xavi (all of them) on the field at the same time. All are very intelligent players with tons of flair and creativity. Would one still try to limit CF to just a couple of them?

[heathxxx]

Perhaps with such creative set of players, it would make more sense to give them more leeway, at least to a default CF of 10.

I think the point is, as it suggests in the manual, giving too much creative freedom can lead to the team moving away from any "game-plan" you're trying to adopt.

I've not tried with Barcelona, but have with Man Utd. I still limited high CF to my forward 3 or Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney. In that save though, I had Ronaldo set to 15 CF, and "Free Role", with high attacking mentality, in an attempt to emulate his role IRL. Never quite works as well in the game though. How do you emulate what he's doing IRL at the moment? He's been phenomenal.

[Powermonger]

Off on a slight tangent but would limiting 'mixed' instructions for players go along the same lines as CF? Players with high CF will want to be set to mixed for forward runs, crossing, through balls etc. Players with low CF however would be better suited to rare/often?

[heathxxx]

I would say that the other instructions work in tandem with CF Powermonger.

After all, it makes sense that you would'nt particularly want a Centre-Back trying a marauding forward run if his attacking attributes and mentality is poor.

It would depend on your tactics I would say, Though clearly wingers would want higher crossing and forward runs, run with ball, an attacking midfielder would want higher through balls, forward runs, possibly run with ball depending on your system.

The balance of the individual sliders is clearly important depending on the role you want the player to perform. It's my opinion though that with FM08, creative freedom settings play a bigger part and therefore influence other linked settings greater than previous releases.

[Dirty_ACE]

I do agree that CF should be used sparingly but maybe not that sparingly, especially not with top teams. Sorry if I'm repeating what's already been said.

Plus, I've noticed that some players perform better with higher CF even though their mental stats may say otherwise, so this kind of confuses me. I'll give you an example.

On my team I have Giles Barnes. While he's a very solid player, his mental stats are alright, kind of in the middle, 14 decisions, 15 creativity. In my tactic I had his CF set on 13 at which he performed marvelously most of the time. Then I tried setting his CF to 5 and after 10 games he's had a very noticeable drop in ratings. Now it could be that my change in CF simply coincided with his drop in form and didn't actually cause it. So I ran the same ten games again, this time not reducing the CF and he stayed the course with his performances.

I really think that one needs to find a balanced CF setting for players. Maybe some players will play well regardless of the setting, while others need it to be finely tuned.

[Dirty_ACE]

Sorry, just to add to my post above, when I said I set Barnes' CF to 5, I also set the rest of the team to 5 as well except for a couple players who I kept on higher CF.

[Mitja]

as much as I could see in my matches I would say CF influences passing and decisioning in the first place. players with low CF won't take any risk and will try only to pass the ball as their 1st option. vice versa players with high CF will take their time for being creative. it means they will try to make some un expected moves, they will hold the ball much longer also.

thanks to heathxxx, now I see how I used too much of CF for all my players. but also I wouldn't go so much for extremes as heathxxx. I thing that Cleon said, use CF for turning your matches not as the 1st choice weapon.

[Mitja]

Originally posted by Dirty_ACE:

I do agree that CF should be used sparingly but maybe not that sparingly, especially not with top teams. Sorry if I'm repeating what's already been said.

Plus, I've noticed that some players perform better with higher CF even though their mental stats may say otherwise, so this kind of confuses me. I'll give you an example.

On my team I have Giles Barnes. While he's a very solid player, his mental stats are alright, kind of in the middle, 14 decisions, 15 creativity. In my tactic I had his CF set on 13 at which he performed marvelously most of the time. Then I tried setting his CF to 5 and after 10 games he's had a very noticeable drop in ratings. Now it could be that my change in CF simply coincided with his drop in form and didn't actually cause it. So I ran the same ten games again, this time not reducing the CF and he stayed the course with his performances.

I really think that one needs to find a balanced CF setting for players. Maybe some players will play well regardless of the setting, while others need it to be finely tuned.

yep. I thnik strikers and wingers must have some space to improvize things. on the other hand you don't want that on defenders, or DMC's... but I would say it's the metter of taste and qulaity of your players. but by giving too much CF to all your players, they just simply won't play on by your tactics. 1 thing also... I think higher amount of CF are needed if you play slow/posessional football. if you want to play fast palyers must do what they are told.

[heathxxx]

I think higher amount of CF are needed if you play slow/posessional football. if you want to play fast palyers must do what they are told.

Very good observation Mitja

When managing one of the big clubs, you're always going to lean towards more CF because the players are capable of better results from the higher CF settings.

The lower the level you play, or when using a more "direct" based tactic, then certainly restricting the creative freedom of non-creative players is a very important aspect.

As an overview:

Slow/Patient/Short Passing Styles - Higher CF, More players have higher CF

Fast/Direct/Longer Passing Styles - Very low CF in defence and your wide players, getting the ball quickly to your forwards to create goalscoring opportunities.

[Cleon]

When managing one of the big clubs, you're always going to lean towards more CF because the players are capable of better results from the higher CF settings.

In which case your best leaving most of his instructions on default, seeing as he will ignore them anyways.

The lower the level you play, or when using a more "direct" based tactic, then certainly restricting the creative freedom of non-creative players is a very important aspect.

Its also good to remember that the opposition is also poor, so the same logic as the top one can still be applied effectively. Or so I've found anyways.

As an overview:

Slow/Patient/Short Passing Styles - Higher CF, More players have higher CF

Fast/Direct/Longer Passing Styles - Very low CF in defence and your wide players, getting the ball quickly to your forwards to create goalscoring opportunities.

That's actually intresting that you'd say that. I actually tend to set up the opposite. If I want to play a slow possession game then I don't want players doing there own thing and trying to create chances. I prefer them to play to how I've instructed them.

But when I'm playing more direct and quick I prefer to let my creative players think more for themselves as I'm already playing at a fast pace so I don't need them to adhere to my instructions as much.

Soo many different ways to play the game

[heathxxx]

That's what makes it such fun to play Cleon

With the slow passing styles I've used, with Man Utd for example, then although there's alot of creativity throughout the team anyway, I prefer to focus creative freedom on the players like Rooney, Ronaldo & Tevez, with the sharper interplay from the players behind them, in order to feed the forward players. The movement of the forward players is important here, as all three have high "Off The Ball" attributes.

With the direct pacey styles, I'm talking smaller clubs in the lower leagues generally. because they're generally not the most "enlightened" bunch, technically or mentally, I need them to follow my instructions as near to the letter as possible. The one or two creative/flair players I have are the "trouble-makers" for my opponents, as they're the ones who are given high CF.

It all boils down to the players you're working with at the time I guess. That's why any tactics need to be tweeked to suit each player and each position accordingly. It can be done broadly for the team also.

[heathxxx]

Should point out with a naturally creative squad like United, Arsenal or Chelsea, I would be more inclined with a slow/passing tactic, to have the "team" CF nearer to the default setting.

should have mentioned that above heh!

[Cleon]

With the slow passing styles I've used, with Man Utd for example, then although there's alot of creativity throughout the team anyway, I prefer to focus creative freedom on the players like Rooney, Ronaldo & Tevez, with the sharper interplay from the players behind them, in order to feed the forward players. The movement of the forward players is important here, as all three have high "Off The Ball" attributes.

'swaping positions' Have you tried that? I know I'm going slightly off topic but swapping positions is so underated by many and offers fantastic options at times especially on forwards as they are too hard to mark and be picked up.

[heathxxx]

If I have the players capable of doing it effectively, most certainly.

Would say this ties in well with creative freedom very well TBH.

It's always worked best once my team has gelled, players like each other and understand each other better.

I usually have players swapping from wing to wing, as I try to sign wide players who can play with both feet. Sometimes I have the strikers swapping too, as I commonly play a 4-4-2 variant of one form or another.

[Old Blue Eyes]

If I want to play a slow possession game then I don't want players doing there own thing and trying to create chances. I prefer them to play to how I've instructed them.

But when I'm playing more direct and quick I prefer to let my creative players think more for themselves :

Exactly how I use CF as well. When playing a slow game its important that my playesr stay in position, easy for their teamatates to find when put under normal/high pressure. Especially f using a full target man

[Cleon]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

If I have the players capable of doing it effectively, most certainly.

Would say this ties in well with creative freedom very well TBH.

It's always worked best once my team has gelled, players like each other and understand each other better.

I usually have players swapping from wing to wing, as I try to sign wide players who can play with both feet. Sometimes I have the strikers swapping too, as I commonly play a 4-4-2 variant of one form or another.

The beauty of it is, it works with rubbish players too. I get my front 2 to interchange quite a lot and in most cases my front 2 finish the season pretty equal on goals normally 35+ each.

Another good way to use it is if you play with a striker who is good at dropping back and you use a AMC. Get them two to swap positions too, this confuses the AI a lot as they never know who to track. It works even better if the 2 players are completly different from each other as well. As the opposition defenders can't settle as you keep changing the styles he's marking against

[heathxxx]

Just to add also, when I've played as Man Utd, I've had a high CF, free-role, position swap combo going with Rooney, Tevez, Giggs & Ronaldo, although I often buy a better suited two-footed replacement for Giggs longer term.

It produces fantastic play between the forwards and is very difficult for the AI to cope with.

Problem for me is, though I'm a United fan (one of the rare ones that was born there!!), I inevitably get bored after winning everything!

I play mostly English lower league teams or foreign leagues.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Old Blue Eyes:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

If I want to play a slow possession game then I don't want players doing there own thing and trying to create chances. I prefer them to play to how I've instructed them.

But when I'm playing more direct and quick I prefer to let my creative players think more for themselves :

Exactly how I use CF as well. When playing a slow game its important that my playesr stay in position, easy for their teamatates to find when put under normal/high pressure. Especially f using a full target man </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yups. I find mistakes cost you more when playing a slower game and it makes sense too. Thats why I prefer them to stick to my instructiosn no matter how creative the player will be on his own.

[heathxxx]

TBH, I've not tinkered or experimented much with it with smaller clubs, lesser quality players.

Only exception is based on my preferences for 4-4-2, always, one of my strikers has a "barrow" to the AMC position. My strikers are then the only ones swapping positions then, as you highlighted.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

TBH, I've not tinkered or experimented much with it with smaller clubs, lesser quality players.

Only exception is based on my preferences for 4-4-2, always, one of my strikers has a "barrow" to the AMC position. My strikers are then the only ones swapping positions then, as you highlighted.

Get experimenting

[heathxxx]

A target man is something that I used alot on FM07, given the lean towards physical attributes. I don't think it's so heavily favoured in FM08, though I might be wrong.

Maybe it's time for me to have another look at the target man.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

A target man is something that I used alot on FM07, given the lean towards physical attributes. I don't think it's so heavily favoured in FM08, though I might be wrong.

Maybe it's time for me to have another look at the target man.

Targetmen are favoured again in 08 I feel. It's what I call the easy route Maybe thats because 08 favours lone strikers though

[heathxxx]

It's funny you mention that. I found that the physical target man was clearly favoured in FM07 - common knowledge.

In FM08, I've found more success with two strikers than a lone striker. You've got my brain ticking now and I'll have to test the lone target man again heh!

[Cleon]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

It's funny you mention that. I found that the physical target man was clearly favoured in FM07 - common knowledge.

In FM08, I've found more success with two strikers than a lone striker. You've got my brain ticking now and I'll have to test the lone target man again heh!

Against 4 man defences you'll run riot. But for some reason a lone striker is hard to be picked up by a back 4, its a real issue I feel. I know others think same too as its been broguht up in beta testing a number of times.

To cope with a lone striker you need to revert to a back 3 which doesn't make sense

[heathxxx]

The only sense I can make of defending against a lone striker perhaps is having a "central" Centre-Back to counter the threat and man-marking the lone striker perhaps.

Would'nt need much creative freedom on that centre-back eh!!

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by Cleon:

To cope with a lone striker you need to revert to a back 3 which doesn't make sense

I had tried the tactic where you get one of your 2 central DCs to man mark with the other zonal marking, but it seems the man marker can't get to the lone striker quickly enough.

I didn't realise they had noticed this in the beta tests. It's now the only tactic of the opposition that requires a different formation with my team. I just bring my DMC to play in that role though, so it's not too much of a change to the shape of the team, but for others I can imagine it's an issue.

[heathxxx]

The only thing I can see working for a flat back four against a lone striker is zonal marking and the "hope" one of your centre-backs will pick him up.

[Hawshiels]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

The only thing I can see working for a flat back four against a lone striker is zonal marking and the "hope" one of your centre-backs will pick him up.

I have Barzagli and Zapata and they even struggle with zonal against the two best strikers in La Liga (Eto'o and Sobis). They are the two players that can score against me still.

But having the DMC come back to help does reduce their chances a little if he is set to man mark the lone striker. It's hardly ideal though is it ?

[Cleon]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

The only thing I can see working for a flat back four against a lone striker is zonal marking and the "hope" one of your centre-backs will pick him up.

That's the thing, all you can do is hope you're lucky

I think its an engine issue regarding space and who actually follows and picks the lone striker up. Hopefully it will get fixed, but it might not be just as easy as fixing it for SI

[Mitja]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

The only thing I can see working for a flat back four against a lone striker is zonal marking and the "hope" one of your centre-backs will pick him up.

...yep and tight marking to allways, one of them will allways be somewhere near. if that lonely striker is very fast, low down pressing add tackling easy if he's extra quality, works for me...

[heathxxx]

Heh - I go for hard tackling and hope my centre-backs can give the striker a "nudge" without the ref noticing.

Can't run very fast if he's hurt can he