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FM2010 - The Better Half - Tactical Sets, NO TC

TheBetterHalf

What formation would you like to see me develop and make a project of next ?  

178 members have voted

  1. 1. What formation would you like to see me develop and make a project of next ?

    • 4-1-2-2-1 (Flat 4 - DMC - MC, MC - AMR, AML - FC)
      54
    • 4-1-2-2-1 ( Flat 4 - DMC- MR, ML - AMC, AMC - FC)
      13
    • 4-2-3-1 Wide (Flat 4 - MC, MC - AMR, AMC, AML - FC )
      60
    • 4-2-3-1 Narrow (Flat 4 - MC, MC - AMC, AMC, AMC - FC)
      26
    • 4-3-2-1 Wide (Flat 4 - MC, MC, MC - AMR, AML - FC)
      25

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Dano

Dano

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Hello again.

Ok I started a new season with Parma and decided to use your 4-4-2 tactic. I won all of my pre-season games comfortably, and went on to win the first 4 games of the season and then 2 had draws against Fiorentina and Milan which I was very pleased with!

However, since then I have not been able to win. In my last 6 games I have drawn 3 and lost 3 against mainly weaker teams and I’m stuck as to what I should do? I believe 2 of the teams the backroom advice was that they play well against the 4-4-2 formation, but I chose to ignored it. Big mistake I guess!

Can you offer me any advice?

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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Hello again.

Ok I started a new season with Parma and decided to use your 4-4-2 tactic. I won all of my pre-season games comfortably, and went on to win the first 4 games of the season and then 2 had draws against Fiorentina and Milan which I was very pleased with!

However, since then I have not been able to win. In my last 6 games I have drawn 3 and lost 3 against mainly weaker teams and I’m stuck as to what I should do? I believe 2 of the teams the backroom advice was that they play well against the 4-4-2 formation, but I chose to ignored it. Big mistake I guess!

Can you offer me any advice?

I would actually ignore those statements are based on that variable alone, not HOW their opposition played within the 442 formation. They could have faced 2 bottom teams in the cup playing 442 for all we know.

As for the version picking, what versions did you use when struggling against these weakes sides ?

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Dano

Dano

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I used the latest 4-4-2 version which was included in your 10.2 pack.

I have to say I was only expected to beat 2 of the teams, the other 4 were teams were fairly equal however had not been on a decent winning streak like me.

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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I used the latest 4-4-2 version which was included in your 10.2 pack.

I have to say I was only expected to beat 2 of the teams, the other 4 were teams were fairly equal however had not been on a decent winning streak like me.

I was referring to the versions within the set, counter, attack away etc

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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Hey TBH,

Been having some very inconsistent results with your 4-1-3-2 wide.

/.../

But how can i go from hammering depor to losing by so much to valencia?

Inconsistency can be the results of many things ( ans I think that you are correct on that the big difference in results here are more non-tactical) but if we speak about the tactics only, my only concern here is the starting version in the Valencia match and perhaps the fact that you did not switch to Control in the the Cup match

Against Valencia, I would not have started with Counter unless I knew for a fact that their was something to counter, that there was space behind their fullbacks to put the ball into. I always watch the first 2 minutes of the match in full mode when using Counter so that I dont base my decision purely on assumptions

As for the trashing of Depor, these results happens in this patch, mainly as a results of poor positioning of the AI defenders and I find that thrashing teams gets players slightly off their toes in the following game I have found that when playing a team that sit rather deep but playing a high closing game, their players get dragged out of position time after time, giving us the chance to score from dangerous CCC under no or little pressure.

Their huge possession would also suggest that they kept a cautious approach with lots of men behind the ball but when they lost it, they rushed out of position, providing us with lots of space to move into etc. When wining this big against an equal side, putting away almost every ball, we cant really have possession simply because we score withing 15 seconds after breaking up their attacks

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Dano

Dano

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I was referring to the versions within the set, counter, attack away etc

My mistake.

I pretty much always start with ‘Balanced’, and usually at half time or possibly before I change to what I thinks best. So if I felt the need for more width and attack, I would change to ‘Attack Home’, if they were piling on the pressure I would switch to ‘Defend’. I am not sure if that is the correct thing to do? Parma are a mid-table team, so I find it difficult as to what one to start off with.

Usually I do this:

If going against a team that’s better than me (Juventus, Inter Milan) I will switch between ‘Defend’ or ‘Balanced’ or very rarely, ‘Counter’.

If I’m going against a team similar to me (Lazio, Genoa) I’ll start off with ‘Balanced’ and switch to any of them at half time depending on the score line and amount of possession each team has.

If I’m playing a team weaker than me (Livorno, Chievo) I will usually alternate mainly between ‘Balanced’ and ‘Attack Home’.

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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My mistake.

I pretty much always start with ‘Balanced’, and usually at half time or possibly before I change to what I thinks best. So if I felt the need for more width and attack, I would change to ‘Attack Home’, if they were piling on the pressure I would switch to ‘Defend’. I am not sure if that is the correct thing to do? Parma are a mid-table team, so I find it difficult as to what one to start off with.

Usually I do this:

A. ) If going against a team that’s better than me (Juventus, Inter Milan) I will switch between ‘Defend’ or ‘Balanced’ or very rarely, ‘Counter’.

B. )If I’m going against a team similar to me (Lazio, Genoa) I’ll start off with ‘Balanced’ and switch to any of them at half time depending on the score line and amount of possession each team has.

C. )If I’m playing a team weaker than me (Livorno, Chievo) I will usually alternate mainly between ‘Balanced’ and ‘Attack Home’.

A.) very good choice

B.) again, god choice

c.) poor choice, I would start with Attack away and take it from there, perhaps even starting with Attack Home and switch either to away or control

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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The first 20 minutes they were not catious at all, they played a Wide 4-2-3-1 and Valeron was pulling all the strings, he hit the post with a shot and Their Striker missed a sitter. My Goalkeeper Diego Lopez also got a rating of 7.9 which keepers usually only get on FM if you are on the back foot. Then when Rossi scored out of the blue everytime we got the ball it we were a threat, they sat back.

Oh yeah Happy New Year :D

Can you upload a pkm of this game ?. I would be most happy to see it ( to learn )

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RedBlueEagle

RedBlueEagle

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Sorry if this is answered in the thread already ( I have read it all several times but cannot recall seeing it and i don't have time just now to go through it all again ) but....

I think version picking is easy, however, how do you tell how the opposition is playing?

I can tell when they are overloadingwith full backs pushing up, hence I should go counter but what signs show that they are playing a deep or normal def line?

How do I tell if they are playing ultra defensive requiring control from me?

I have played some pre-season friendlies and am getting used to the versions and assuming that no one will play that defensive at home in a friendly (even Dover and Bromley) however they were difficult games (with Palace) and Att Home seemed the best but I only drew.

It might be a bit much to ask but please could you post some screenies of what I should be looking at? I have started playing all games Extended and Elevated (although it's not my fav view)

Thanks

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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Sorry if this is answered in the thread already ( I have read it all several times but cannot recall seeing it and i don't have time just now to go through it all again ) but....

I think version picking is easy, however, how do you tell how the opposition is playing?

I can tell when they are overloadingwith full backs pushing up, hence I should go counter but what signs show that they are playing a deep or normal def line?

How do I tell if they are playing ultra defensive requiring control from me?

I have played some pre-season friendlies and am getting used to the versions and assuming that no one will play that defensive at home in a friendly (even Dover and Bromley) however they were difficult games (with Palace) and Att Home seemed the best but I only drew.

It might be a bit much to ask but please could you post some screenies of what I should be looking at? I have started playing all games Extended and Elevated (although it's not my fav view)

Thanks

The biggest difference between a team using a vey deep d-line and a normal is not only their d-line settings but also ( in almost most cases) their mentality. When a team uses a very deep d-line, they rarely move over the middle of their own half when in possession. When facing such a cautious team, its important that we stretch their team in a slower and more controlling way. This is against sides that actually know how to defend. If playing a minor team, then I usually go for Attack Home instead as they cant up with the pressure.

Another approach that one needs to break down is a team playing cautious within a defenisve formation, like the 4141( like Bolton) or the 42121( Wigan) using 2 DMCs. here, its better NOT to use a Target man as he will have none or little space to move into and will be under lots of pressure when receiving the ball.

I will post some screenshots later tonight but the best thing to do - when in agony - is to use the full match mode, slow, for about 1 minute or 2.

I always seem to struggle wen playing everton wen they use the lone forward and tim cahill as the attacking midfielder should i man mark him ? im using 4-1-3-2 narrow

Are you on patch 10.2 ?. If so, then the narrow 4132 is yet to be updated for that patch

If you are on 10.1, then I would suggest man-marking him with the DMC

Hey Better Half

Im getting used to which strategy to use, however which tactic you think is the best one? The 4132 Wide or 442?

That depends on the players at hand and your ambitions. If being a top club, I would probably use the 442, not using a Target man but if being a middle team/underdog, then the more defensive formation 4132 ( with a TM) is better

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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The following sets will be upload over the coming days

  • 442 - Playmaker
  • 442 No tm
  • 442 Wingerplaymaker
  • 4411 - AMC playmaker
  • 4411
  • Narrow 4132
  • Narrow 4312
  • Wide 4312
  • 442 wide diamond
  • 442 narrow diamond
  • wide 4321
  • narrow 4321
  • 41221
  • 42121

2 more sets containing different formations in the version will be uploaded. In the more attacking versions, the formation will be more attacking and in the more defensive, they players will further down the pitch by positioning

- One set using 2 FCs and one using AMR, AML, FC

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Law_Man

Law_Man

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@ Kung

I have a slight tweak to the Control and defensive version that makes them( slightly) better. Interested ?

I'd interested in trying this too. I have played two games of my premier league season with your patch 10.1 wide 4-1-3-2 and have set my team up to play this sort of formation. Just landed back from Sweden for New Year!

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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I'd interested in trying this too. I have played two games of my premier league season with your patch 10.1 wide 4-1-3-2 and have set my team up to play this sort of formation. Just landed back from Sweden for New Year!

Patch 10.1 ? That set should be for 10.2

Basically, the tweak to Control was to raise the d-line with one notch only and the mentality by one ( team and those on individual). The tweak of the defensive version was more player specific than i firstly believed so lets forget about that )

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Law_Man

Law_Man

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Patch 10.1 ? That set should be for 10.2

Basically, the tweak to Control was to raise the d-line with one notch only and the mentality by one ( team and those on individual). The tweak of the defensive version was more player specific than i firstly believed so lets forget about that )

I'm using the set you uploaded and pm'd me a while back, I thought that was designed for 10.1? Have you now released a 10.2 set? If so I might as well download that just so I get the minor control version tweaks.

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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I'm using the set you uploaded and pm'd me a while back, I thought that was designed for 10.1? Have you now released a 10.2 set? If so I might as well download that just so I get the minor control version tweaks.

Sorry, yes that set ( with all the versions called LAWMAN - X - X )was for 10.1. The set for 10.2 can be found in the OP

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Corkey

Corkey

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@Corkey

Here is a beta of 3 versions for Hull :thup:

Zshare link

FC - All-round with specific competence ( very good in some area)

AMR, L - wingforwards

MCright- More defensive but creative

MCleft - More attacking, needs top be able to put the ball away

DMC - Hardworking

:D, Thanks

Will it work with alot of teams?

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Corkey

Corkey

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Thats your problem, teams take a few games to get used to the new tactic. Im not suprised if your win/draw came in your last 2 games.

Have you looked at the PKM yet TBH? Im intrested to know whats up with the tactic. Ive only played one game since that post where I won vs Athletic Bilbao 2-1, their goal coming from a corner, I forgot to put my personal corner tactic which is really solid! So that was my error. And ive only played 1 due to me making a exciting new tactic thats got my attention lately. However im still very intrested to see did what you noticed while looking at the match :D:thup:

Hmmm, I played 10 now and 1 Wins and 2 Draws...:(

Like I have said already though, the play is good, just unfortunately the Team isn't good enough.

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nen

nen

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I think that when you start a game and you get as international football the team plays better than if you start out as automatic. I have also noticed that the best tactics for me are balanced when you play away from home and against strong teams of similar level and, when you bookmark.

Also home tactic does not work very well when you favorite. I've played 7 games with Heereenven and won 6 including Feyenoord (1-4) and PSV (1-0), 1 loss at home against Sparta and the home tactic.

Anyway, tomorrow I start a new game, and I will tell you.

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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I think that when you start a game and you get as international football the team plays better than if you start out as automatic. I have also noticed that the best tactics for me are balanced when you play away from home and against strong teams of similar level and, when you bookmark.

Also home tactic does not work very well when you favorite. I've played 7 games with Heereenven and won 6 including Feyenoord (1-4) and PSV (1-0), 1 loss at home against Sparta and the home tactic.

Anyway, tomorrow I start a new game, and I will tell you.

The plug & play I uploaded for Corkey was just one tactic( with 2 addidional tweaks) so its not something that can be used as a set if you where refering to trying that one out

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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Thats your problem, teams take a few games to get used to the new tactic. Im not suprised if your win/draw came in your last 2 games.

Have you looked at the PKM yet TBH? Im intrested to know whats up with the tactic. Ive only played one game since that post where I won vs Athletic Bilbao 2-1, their goal coming from a corner, I forgot to put my personal corner tactic which is really solid! So that was my error. And ive only played 1 due to me making a exciting new tactic thats got my attention lately. However im still very intrested to see did what you noticed while looking at the match :D:thup:

I have looked at that game, some of my own and some others with high scores and the pattern's are the same

- AI using mismatching settings for mentality, d-line and closing down

Example:

They play with a low mentality ( the team sits really deep when starting to attack) but when loosing the ball, they raise their d-line but as they use low closing down settings, they are passive and fall back again, just not being in their correct defensive position at any time. In this scenario,you see AI midfielders not putting in the effort at all and fbs tucking in and DC being dragged down the corner flag

Example II:

The play with a low, very low d-line but with high closing down settings through out the team. This results in that when e have broken through the first barrier, their midfield, we now face 4 defenders that comes rushing towards us from deep and when they do, we outnumber them. When we gain possession in advanced positions, we can pin the ball around playing 6 vs 4 and in the end scoring as they are dragged all around the place

Finally:

The reason why we score in these games is that this tactic is setup NOT to produce too many bad angle one-on-ones so here, we CAN take advantage of poor AI settings. These things simply have to be a part of the game to some extent as the opposite would mean that the AI became too smart, always knowing when to push button B when needeed and when to push C, D, E etc.

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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Where is information on what type of players suit what roles?

Like which striker is the target man etc etc

Look in the OP under 1.2 The formations and click the links. When more sets are uploaded, this opening post will again be reconstructed - containing much more information and every download will come with a read me

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Hammer1000

Hammer1000

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Hi TBH,

Did'nt get my new PC on the 31st, i expect to take delivery sometime tomorrow.

Would you link me to the tactic sets we talked about(one for West Ham, one for Big Club) thanks.

Also, heard mention of a plug and play tactic, would you expect this to work with a team like West Ham? thanks again.

Oh, could you also help out with the "Garry Proof" instructions for picking the right tactic and tweaks etc. :thup:

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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Hi TBH,

Did'nt get my new PC on the 31st, i expect to take delivery sometime tomorrow.

Would you link me to the tactic sets we talked about(one for West Ham, one for Big Club) thanks.

Also, heard mention of a plug and play tactic, would you expect this to work with a team like West Ham? thanks again.

Oh, could you also help out with the "Garry Proof" instructions for picking the right tactic and tweaks etc. :thup:

I will send you a link to the various new formations. About the plug & play, its not really for West ham ( not initially anyway) as it uses a AMR and AML but I have tried for half a season with Villa (very good squad for it) and Palace ( hmm.. so so ) and without any tweaks at all, also letting the assman pick the team, we where 3rd with Villa and top of the league with Palace. I also used it with Man City for about 12 or 13 matches and we sat top of the league but thats not eally an achievement

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Omark

Omark

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TBH - have been using your sets with great success since FM09. Now starting with your 10.2 sets having been offered the Oxford job - not sure whether to stick with the 4-1-3-2 set or change to 4-4-2 set. I was having good success in BSP with Chester using the 4-1-3-2 set so unless there is a reason the change figured I would stick with that in League 2.

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nen

nen

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I finished the first season with Heerenveen in 4th place, winning the super Holland and lost the cup final. I was not so well on the final leg because I was in 2nd position and with a good chance of finishing 2nd, but I'm happy. Have you it's going in the second season.

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InzieBear

InzieBear

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Hello multicoloured bird:D

Happy new year !

Great thanks guys...much appreciated i will download now....sorry for delay in responding as computer had no ac adaptor until today....

and congrats on the birth of your daughter RB Eagle..... no time to play FM for you now then!!!!

Cheers again guys

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RedBlueEagle

RedBlueEagle

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Great thanks guys...much appreciated i will download now....sorry for delay in responding as computer had no ac adaptor until today....

and congrats on the birth of your daughter RB Eagle..... no time to play FM for you now then!!!!

Cheers again guys

So far I have managed all Pre-Season friendlies and only the first game of the season with Palace. :-(

Having applied all of TBHs advice against Plymouth I was able to scrape a 2-1 home win. I started with Attack Home which was a mistake. I could immediately see Plymouth playing with possession and playing cautious. I lowered the tactic to Att Away and we dominated. It took until the 2nd half for us to score but Plymouth immediately retaliated to score. The report kept saying that they were looking for more options going forward and playing more offensively. I could see this as the full backs were pushing on. I subbed my right winger and brought on the pacey Scannell. First touch, he raced off downt he wing and played in a perfect cross. 2-1. We then struggled a bit to see out the game with Counter. I have since seen that Defensive may have been the correct choice using AIs on the MFs and FWs.

TBH -

Just realised that I hadn't read whole thread as if I had I would have seen that you managed Palace for a spell. How did that go? They don't have any cash so I'd be interested in what players you used and which ones were successful.

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TheBetterHalf

TheBetterHalf

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These sets have been updated into the first post

The tweaks that have been made is to be a workaround so that lesser bad angles on-one-ones are produced. I find that using a single FC in free role ( but without moving into channels) and wingforwards helps in this

442 Target man

The FCleft is a strong poacher and the MCright the more creative midfielder

This is mostly for underdogs/middle teams

442 No Target Man

The FCleft should be a poacher of great calibre and the FCright a more creative FC ( or a AMC/FC)

The wingers should be top class with both speed and the ability to find space and make good crosses

The MCright is the creative attacking one and the left is a hardworking DMC/MC

4411

Basically the same as in the 442 No Tm but this time with a AMC instead of the FCright

4141

A very defensive set as a default. The FC should be a more or less complete player since he is all alone up there

The MCright and MCleft should be attacking minded players and the DMC a hardworking one

41221

An approach that really needs wide players that have the stamina. The FC is a poacher and the AMR, L are, well wingforwards. THe MCright should be able to get inside the box ( ppms perhaps). The MCleft is a box-to-box and the DMC is hardworking

42121

Almost like the set above but with a more defensive formation by default. Here, we use 2 DMCs and the right one is a creative DMC. All other players are the same as in the tactic above.

Wide 4132 Target Man

This set is just like the 442 TM but with the hardworking midfielder dropped into DMC position

Wide 4132 NO TM

Again, this set is based on the 442, this time the one for better teams.

Narrow 4132

Alsmot like the set above but here using MCs instead of wingers. Best used if having players as MCr and MCl that have "wingerstats". This formation also mean that the fullbacks needs to be slightly "better" in their defensive positioning and crossing ability

4231

The Classic wide 4231 using wingforwards, a AMC of choice and a creative MCr and a hardworking MCleft. The FC is a poacher, preferably strong and with aerial ability as most wingers and AMCs lacks of it

Deep 4231

Almost like the set above but with a more cautious formation, more suitable for underdogs and middle/teams ( or if playing with a domestic top 3-5 side in Europe)

Wide 4321

A very attacking formation that I only suggests for topnotch teams. The FC needs to be complete and the DMC and DCs are the only defensive specialists

DMC/MC Box

Used when having fllbakcs up for the job and when the squad is full of competent DMCs and MCs

DMC/AMC

Here we use one of the AMCs or the MCright as a playmaker. The FCs swapp positions and they need to be alsmot complete. The amcs also swap

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