byrner Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 after seeing various threads with the 39th game, where 2 teams have identical points, goal dif and goals for, and people were saying it goes to a play-off and one man said it didnt in his game for a champions league spot (possibly lying) anyway my question is, and its completely hypothetical, but what if man utd, chelsea and arsenal all finished with equal everything. what way would a play-off work then, or would it be a game of rock/paper/scissors?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrner Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 after seeing various threads with the 39th game, where 2 teams have identical points, goal dif and goals for, and people were saying it goes to a play-off and one man said it didnt in his game for a champions league spot (possibly lying) anyway my question is, and its completely hypothetical, but what if man utd, chelsea and arsenal all finished with equal everything. what way would a play-off work then, or would it be a game of rock/paper/scissors?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifrow Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 The chances of 2 teams having identical records is small, never mind 3 teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakey_q Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 i doubt it would go to a play off it would be on head to head or alphabetical order ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrner Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 i know the chances are ridiculously slim, and i mean if head to head records were identical what would happen. is their an official ruling the premier league have on such an occurence does anyone know? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsenal_2111 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jakey_q: i doubt it would go to a play off it would be on head to head or alphabetical order ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It wouldnt go to alphabetical order, thatwouldgive an unfair advantage to teams which names start with A. It wouldbe a race, whoever can re-name their club A! It would go to head-to-head after goals scored, then i dont know what would happen if there was 3 teams all the same TBH! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Doyle Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 A Mini league would be created in which each team played all the others tied with it. Lets say for example... Chelsea Played 2, won 2, lost 0, drew 0 6pts Man U played 2, won 1, Lost 1, drew 0 3 pts Arsenal played 2, won 0, lost 2, drew 0 0pts If somehow two of the teams or all still had the same points then goal difference... then replay the mini league. OR it couls just go down to how each team performed against its tied rival... If Man united beat both teams but still finished with the same points as them they would go through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrner Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 How do u know that doyle? ( not saying that your wrong) just is it a guess or whats your source? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIMN Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 IRL there are a number of areas where the teams can be seperated if it gets to it. I believe after head-to-head records, its yellow cards, and then overall discipline record (in keeping with the rules of the EUFA fair play league), and can go on down to things like number of corners. If the teams can't be separated it is decided on a drawing of straws. However, if such a situtation would arise then a play-off league would be the way it was dealt with to ensure relative fairness (it's not that fair, because the overall winner is the team who had the best form in the last few games). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 You can be sure that the FA or the EPL will have a tie break rule down to the last possibility in their rules. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QPRIrish Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I think Geoff is right, but... I think it goes as far as discipline. For eg. Points, GD, Goals F, Goals A, Head-to-Head, yellow cards/ discipline and then it goes to a coin toss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaroq Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Its not relevant to the original question, but Major League Baseball has an interesting tie-breaker for the three-way-tie case. They go to a playoff, as you might expect, but instead of doing a mini-league as Doyle outlines, only two games are played, single-elimination, such that you get: A at (the winner of B at C) Allocation to A, B, or C is done by drawing straws: the winner gets to choose whether they want to be A, B, or C. Obviously, B is a poor choice, but the question "Would you rather be away for one game, or at home but have to win two" has made for plenty of entertaining pub conversations! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrner Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 to be honest with the amount of money and how competetive todays game is that it could be settled by a couple of yellow cards or a coin toss!! imagine fergie losing the title on tevez taking off a shirt after scoring Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavenagh Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 According to the Rules of the Premier League, if at the end of the season two or more Clubs are equal on Points, Goal Difference and Goals Scored, and their league position must be determined for Championship, Relegation and Qualification for other competitions, then: "the Clubs concerned shall play off one or more deciding League Matches on neutral grounds, the format, timing and venue of which shall be determined by the board" (Page 22 of the EPL Handbook PDF). Yellow cards, coin tosses and Head to Head don't apply. So the certain answer is that there would be a play off series. But the actual format of it won't be decided until it happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamianY2J Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 It would go: Points Goal Difference Head-to-Head Results Goals Scored (highest wins) Goals Conceded (lowest wins) Games Won Games Lost Home Games Won Away Games Won If, in a million to one chance, all of those were equal (and head-to-head results works like an aggregrate game including away goals, so the chances of not being able to split them using this is VERY slim), then the Premier League would announce their way of settling things. I would assume it'd be a mini-league, all played at neutral grounds (which would be an amazing money spinner for the FA), but no announcement has been made because that situation has never happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Walds Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 There would be 3 games on neutral venues, with potentially a final between the top 2 if they are equal going to extra time and penalties... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakey_q Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 would it go to diciplinary record for that season ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xBunn3y-B0yx Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Surely after a while, someone would give up on this and give the top 2/3 join recognition as title winners! perhaps itll come down to school boy rules....heads or tails? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrner Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 tanks cavenagh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turn it upto 11 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Teams receive three points for a win and one point for a draw. The bottom three teams will be automatically relegated to Championship. If two or more teams finish level on points the team with the better goal difference will finish higher. If two or more teams have the same points and the same goal difference, the team which has scored the higher number of goals will finish higher. If two or more teams finish level on points, goal difference and goals scored, and the championship, a relegation place or European qualification is at stake, they will then play off to decide who finishes higher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turn it upto 11 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 If two or more teams are level before the end of the season on points, goal difference and goals scored, then alphabetical order will determine the team finishing higher forgot to add that bit, its from the rule book, so yes i can answer with certainty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NepentheZ Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I can answer this question with certainty. I certainly can't answer this question No, but really, it goes down to bookings and the fair play league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turn it upto 11 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 it cant be yellow cards, the same referees arent used for every game.i know you could say the same about goalsbut most of he time thyre defeinate, the referee usually lets things go if he can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Walds Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11: If two or more teams are level before the end of the season on points, goal difference and goals scored, then alphabetical order will determine the team finishing higher forgot to add that bit, its from the rule book, so yes i can answer with certainty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Rubbish. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Play-offs 31. If at the end of the Season either the League Champions or the Clubs to be relegated or the question of qualification for other competitions cannot be determined because 2 or more Clubs are equal on points, goal difference and goals scored, the Clubs concerned shall play off one or more deciding League Matches on neutral grounds, the format, timing and venue of which shall be determined by the Board. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> From the official Premier League handbook Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turn it upto 11 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 are you blind read the post before if it is deciding any thing major, playoff if not alphabetical. so quick trying to score points by making someone look you didnt open your eyes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Walds Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11: are you blind read the post before if it is deciding any thing major, playoff if not alphabetical. so quick trying to score points by making someone look you didnt open your eyes </div></BLOCKQUOTE> No I'm not blind thanks, no need for that. Yours mentions before the end of the season, then says 'finishing' - slight contradiction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turn it upto 11 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Subject to Rule B.31, if any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points, have the same goal difference and have scored the same number of goals in League Matches in that Season they shall be deemed to occupy the same position in the table. i meant to put both of them in, they ocuppy the same position but alphabetical with who above and whose below.yellow cards play no part Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Walds Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 "Subject to Rule B.31" I posted B.31... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I can say with certainty, that it is settled with a thumb war. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hufton Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 You can guarantee that if there were inseparable teams IRL there would be a play-off game or mini-league because that's the way that the EPL could make most money out of it. It makes far more sense for them to play a game at Wembley to decide the title because it would be almost the same as having another FA Cup final. I'm only surprised they haven't already put the idea of end of season play-offs out there in the style of American sports or the Super League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hufton Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 You can guarantee that if there were inseparable teams IRL there would be a play-off game or mini-league because that's the way that the EPL could make most money out of it. It makes far more sense for them to play a game at Wembley to decide the title because it would be almost the same as having another FA Cup final. I'm only surprised they haven't already put the idea of end of season play-offs out there in the style of American sports or the Super League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the best at fm 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 haha you are all noobs the answer is where they are ranked in europe if arsenal are 5th and chelsea are 3rd and man u are 2nd then it will end up man 1st chelsea 2nd and arsenal 3rd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Walds Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by the best at fm 2008: haha you are all noobs the answer is where they are ranked in europe if arsenal are 5th and chelsea are 3rd and man u are 2nd then it will end up man 1st chelsea 2nd and arsenal 3rd </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Rubbish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turn it upto 11 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scotty Walds: "Subject to Rule B.31" I posted B.31... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> btw i wasnt saying if it decides a play off or something they occupy the place, just if its mid table. and im guessing prize money is split evenly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Walds Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scotty Walds: "Subject to Rule B.31" I posted B.31... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> btw i wasnt saying if it decides a play off or something they occupy the place, just if its mid table. and im guessing prize money is split evenly </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Alphabetical order is only used mid-season, not to decide positions at the end of the season - as this would be unfair. Yeah, I would assume the prize money is split evenly, or that they would both receive the higher amount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iacovone Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 It wouldn't be alphabetical, without reading the whole of the thread I'd assume it'd follow the Italian leagues. This would mean going to a 3 way playoff 'league'. Each team plays twice against the others and the winner overall comes higher in the league Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I assume all this stuff would also come into play if records between 3 teams were not all identical, but were in the follwojng kind of situation: Team A bt Team B, Team B bt Team C, Team C bt Team A on head to head records. In that case, even if one team won 5-0 and the others were just 1-0's or whatever you still couldn't split 3 teams based on head to head record. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turn it upto 11 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 i just meant alphabetical purely cosmetically like 7 aston villa 7 newcastle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the best at fm 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 ITS 2 DO WITH COEFFENCICS OR SOMETHING IT THERE PLACE IN EUROPE AND ITS NOT RUBBISH SCOTTY WALDS ITS JUST UR A DUMBASS WHO DONT NO WHAT HE IS TALKING BOUT SO UP URS M8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Walds Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by the best at fm 2008: ITS 2 DO WITH COEFFENCICS OR SOMETHING IT THERE PLACE IN EUROPE AND ITS NOT RUBBISH SCOTTY WALDS ITS JUST UR A DUMBASS WHO DONT NO WHAT HE IS TALKING BOUT SO UP URS M8 </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Why should we take what you say as being the truth, when a) you use all capitals, b) use text speak, c) refer to no sources and d) give out abuse? Co-efficients only apply in the Champions League and UEFA Cup group standings, and not the Premier League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuckatfm Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by Scotty Walds:- Why should we take what you say as being the truth </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Look at his screen name. How could you not believe him?!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skunner Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I would hope they just give the league to Manchester United. It's the smart thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 they only go for a play off game if relegation, promotion, the title or continental qualification are at stake, according to fa rules if none of those are at stake i.e. 9th and 10th place then the 2 clubs are deemed to have occupied the same place in the table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the best at fm 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 its co-efficentis (i think thats hoe you spell it not sure tho) it happend to me i was chelsea and arsenal and i finished with the exact same stats but i won the league due to a 3 year run of winning in europe i would provide a screen shot but i overwrite the save as 2014 got boring Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Walds Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by the best at fm 2008: its co-efficentis (i think thats hoe you spell it not sure tho) it happend to me i was chelsea and arsenal and i finished with the exact same stats but i won the league due to a 3 year run of winning in europe i would provide a screen shot but i overwrite the save as 2014 got boring </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Are you sure? What were your results between you and Arsenal? Of course you overwrote the save Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Walds Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I emailed the Premier League, and got the following reply: "Thank you for your email. Where teams are equal on points, the number of goals scored and goal difference then there will be a play off. The Premier League does not look at the head-to-head record." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojby Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by D. Doyle: A Mini league would be created in which each team played all the others tied with it. Lets say for example... Chelsea Played 2, won 2, lost 0, drew 0 6pts Man U played 2, won 1, Lost 1, drew 0 3 pts Arsenal played 2, won 0, lost 2, drew 0 0pts If somehow two of the teams or all still had the same points then goal difference... then replay the mini league. OR it couls just go down to how each team performed against its tied rival... If Man united beat both teams but still finished with the same points as them they would go through. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I would seriously doubt that a mini league would be created. i am sure it is alpabetical as the last resort. This has happened with teams lower down the league where records are identical - they go to alpabetical order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danish chelsea Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scotty Walds: I emailed the Premier League, and got the following reply: "Thank you for your email. Where teams are equal on points, the number of goals scored and goal difference then there will be a play off. The Premier League does not look at the head-to-head record." </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Ok now that settles it.. Thanks Scotty Walds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedclough Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I'd be quite happy to go for the alphabetical rule, as long as it wasn't applied in reverse order! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
easternhawk2 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by D. Doyle: OR it couls just go down to how each team performed against its tied rival... If Man united beat both teams but still finished with the same points as them they would go through. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> It would happen like that not a could. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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