[FM2010] England Levels 7 and 8 - Southern, Northern & Isthmian Leagues

[KUBI]

I don't think that there will be a "final" version of an edited file at the moment, as there are that many things that can be done.

There are some playable files around right now, but all of those can still be improved by real testing (which means feedback from people who are playing it).

[uncle ron]

is this version (5) the final version then?

thnx

I have tested and I'm reasonably happy with the file, so I've started my save with this version 5.

These things are (technically) never finished due to the limitations of the editor. I will hope to address any other issues that may be raised.

[uncle ron]

Actually ...... another version will be available later today with Awards added for Level 7 and 8 clubs!

[Blanchflower1]

When all of the issues are fixed for level 7 and 8 clubs, will you be expanding the league structure for level 9 clubs as well? Do level 8 clubs get relegated to level 9? Thanks!

[uncle ron]

When all of the issues are fixed for level 7 and 8 clubs, will you be expanding the league structure for level 9 clubs as well? Do level 8 clubs get relegated to level 9? Thanks!

Clubs in Level 8 do get relegated to Level 9. There are 12 relegation slots in Level 8 (2 in each division).

I have no plan to include the league structure for Level 9 as I do not believe the game allows this level and below to be accurately created.

[Blanchflower1]

Clubs in Level 8 do get relegated to Level 9. There are 12 relegation slots in Level 8 (2 in each division).

I have no plan to include the league structure for Level 9 as I do not believe the game allows this level and below to be accurately created.

Well,out of respect, how do you know that the game will not allow this when you have never even tried it yet?? Just a food for thought!

[uncle ron]

Well,out of respect, how do you know that the game will not allow this when you have never even tried it yet?? Just a food for thought!

I have tried.

If you want to play lower than Level 8 then download and play Super Bladesman's file

[Blanchflower1]

I have tried.

If you want to play lower than Level 8 then download and play Super Bladesman's file

Well I prefer to play your file as I think that it has less issues than Super Bladesman's file. Anyway, you did a great job here! If SI improves the data editor, you would consider adding in level 9 clubs as well, right? But let us work from what we have currently!

[uncle ron]

Version 6b of file uploaded, see post #1.

Cheers

Ron

[jWaSiMhE]

Version 6b of file uploaded, see post #1.

Cheers

Ron

I have a few questions

a) can i add an extra xml which makes changes to a teams squad list (loughborough) & a few mangerial changes etc but nothing to the league structure

b) how to make a county cup??? i know how to but do i need to make sure all teams that are in the cup have england as their nation anything else that is important??

c)you said earlier on that some level 8 temas arent in the fa cup if thy get promoted will thy be inthe fa cup at later years

[red rainbow]

Well I prefer to play your file as I think that it has less issues than Super Bladesman's file

... can someone explain the difference between SB's "lite" version and uncle ron's work ?

As crouchaldinho said, I think there is room for both "projects" and I'm not asking if one is better than another, but consider I'm an Italian player and I know almost nothing about your lower leagues, so... let me learn playing the most accurate "product":D

[jWaSiMhE]

... can someone explain the difference between SB's "lite" version and uncle ron's work ?

As crouchaldinho said, I think there is room for both "projects" and I'm not asking if one is better than another, but consider I'm an Italian player and I know almost nothing about your lower leagues, so... let me learn playing the most accurate "product":D

yes i agree i am just confused with all of this and i am english

i prefer uncle rons

also i dont know what going to happen to the bladesman update in febuary when the dat update comes he had created loads of new clubs it seems too complex

[crouchaldinho]

... can someone explain the difference between SB's "lite" version and uncle ron's work ?

As crouchaldinho said, I think there is room for both "projects" and I'm not asking if one is better than another, but consider I'm an Italian player and I know almost nothing about your lower leagues, so... let me learn playing the most accurate "product":D

My advice would be to play this one red rainbow, mainly because it just focuses on adding steps 3 and 4 of our 'non-League' game, and also because it doesn't include the vast amount of cups in SB's update.

I hope nobody will misunderstand me; SB's update is a terrific piece of work. However, it also has quite a few teething problems and there has been some necessary trade-off regarding realism versus playability.

My personal preference would be to play Uncle Ron's file, which is probably what I'm going to do once the second patch is out.

I hope that helps. Also, don't hesitate to ask us any questions you may have about English non-League. I would certainly recommend it as a fun playing experience in FM.

Regards,

C.

[KUBI]

also i dont know what going to happen to the bladesman update in febuary when the dat update comes he had created loads of new clubs it seems too complex

That would be no problem, as you can choose to start with the 10.0 database, even when there is a 10.1. or 10.2 available.

[Jorge Campos]

This update is the most realistic for English non-league football, mainly because Uncle Ron stopped at level 8 because the editor can't really support a proper structure for leagues below it.

As far as future data updates not working with this, the beauty of the editor now is that all updates are modular. So if someone adds clubs, players, staff, stadiums and the like, the game can combine the XML files with the updated database and overwrite or merge as needed.

[jWaSiMhE]

That would be no problem, as you can choose to start with the 10.0 database, even when there is a 10.1. or 10.2 available.

but that means u cant hve the update and play the extra leagues (to my knowledge)

because the new teams & players created etc will conflict the new information in the SI dat update

[jWaSiMhE]

I have a few questions

a) can i add an extra xml which makes changes to a teams squad list (loughborough) & a few mangerial changes etc but nothing to the league structure

b) how to make a county cup??? i know how to but do i need to make sure all teams that are in the cup have england as their nation anything else that is important??

c)you said earlier on that some level 8 temas arent in the fa cup if thy get promoted will thy be inthe fa cup at later years

could someone help i just need to know whta i can edit and merge of my info without ruining the update???

thnx KUTGW!!

[uncle ron]

My file concentrates solely on adding the competition structure for the levels that can be recreated to a good quality in the limitation of the game. Only information that is crucial, i.e. adding stadiums and cities for completeness where these do not already exist in the SI database have been included in my file.

To illustrate the working of the regional sorting of teams are a few seasons here are some screenshots from December 2015 of the Southern, Isthmian and Northern Premier Leagues.

[jWaSiMhE]

wht infomation can add by an xml??

kits, new players, staff etc histories for loughborough dynamo??

thts all i want 2 add??

[jWaSiMhE]

My file concentrates solely on adding the competition structure for the levels that can be recreated to a good quality in the limitation of the game. Only information that is crucial, i.e. adding stadiums and cities for completeness where these do not already exist in the SI database have been included in my file.

you said earlier on that some level 8 temas arent in the fa cup if thy get promoted will thy be inthe fa cup at later years

[Jorge Campos]

Everything can be added by XML now. Anything you could ever do in the editor previously is now done with XML files instead of actually changing the database. It's not necessary to edit the database itself anymore, so, yes, you should be able to edit kits, add players, staff, histories, and other info without actually touching the database itself. And that's why these XML files should be compatible with future data updates from SI.

[uncle ron]

you said earlier on that some level 8 temas arent in the fa cup if thy get promoted will thy be inthe fa cup at later years

In terms of the FA Cup the SI database starts at the 2nd Qualifying Round. The 1st Qualifying Round includes some Level 8 teams, therefore not all Level 8 teams will appear in the FA Cup 2nd Round as they will have been already assumed to have been knocked out.

I appreciate this is not ideal. I will have a look at the FA Cup again to see if this can be amended to include the 1st Round and create a realistic structure.

[Drakestone]

Out of interest Uncle Ron, where are Evesham United on your 2015 save game? I couldn't see them in your screenshots for Zamaretto Prem.

[uncle ron]

Here's where they are in 2020

[benvalo]

Folkestone Invicta here i come! Cheers for the data.

[Astraeus]

Is it possible to run this alongside SB's so that the league structure here is used for Level 8 and above whilst SB's edit is used for Level 9/10? I ask because the team I want to play with are at Level 9 but this edit seems to be the more realistic structure.

[uncle ron]

Is it possible to run this alongside SB's so that the league structure here is used for Level 8 and above whilst SB's edit is used for Level 9/10? I ask because the team I want to play with are at Level 9 but this edit seems to be the more realistic structure.

You cannot mix multiple XML files where changes are made to a nation's league structure on both files.

Perhaps you could use this file and holiday until your Level 9 team are promoted?

[Blanchflower1]

You cannot mix multiple XML files where changes are made to a nation's league structure on both files.

Perhaps you could use this file and holiday until your Level 9 team are promoted?

Uncle ron, when will the next update be released? I can hardly wait!

[jWaSiMhE]

In terms of the FA Cup the SI database starts at the 2nd Qualifying Round. The 1st Qualifying Round includes some Level 8 teams, therefore not all Level 8 teams will appear in the FA Cup 2nd Round as they will have been already assumed to have been knocked out.

I appreciate this is not ideal. I will have a look at the FA Cup again to see if this can be amended to include the 1st Round and create a realistic structure.

ok i think this is a sacrifice worth making but if you rise thru the pyramid do get entered??

[jWaSiMhE]

Everything can be added by XML now. Anything you could ever do in the editor previously is now done with XML files instead of actually changing the database. It's not necessary to edit the database itself anymore, so, yes, you should be able to edit kits, add players, staff, histories, and other info without actually touching the database itself. And that's why these XML files should be compatible with future data updates from SI.

thts wht i dont understand as i created an additional xml which added kits new players histories for one team and managerial changes form above the pyramid and i got a crash dump after a quick holiday

i guess i will have to test after each type of xml addition (eg. new players) to see whats makin the conflict

has anybody else had thse sort of problems

[Drakestone]

:o Thats shocking Ron! I guessed they'dd been relegated from the prem but from the league altogether. It's an abomination!

[uncle ron]

ok i think this is a sacrifice worth making but if you rise thru the pyramid do get entered??

Yes

I'm testing a separate version which includes an edited FA Cup to include all rounds so Level 7 and 8 teams will be entered.

2 versions of my file will be uploaded to give you the choice.

[uncle ron]

:o Thats shocking Ron! I guessed they'dd been relegated from the prem but from the league altogether. It's an abomination!

In that test they never made it above Southern Premier :o

[jWaSiMhE]

Yes

I'm testing a separate version which includes an edited FA Cup to include all rounds so Level 7 and 8 teams will be entered.

2 versions of my file will be uploaded to give you the choice.

ok will this have the proper named rounds or will it be altered slightly like SB's

and also iv read about remving the fa cup and creating a new one removes things like TV matches does the new update include tht?

because i think having a few teams missing (as long as thy are in it if thy progress up the pyramid) is worth it to have tv matches and the like

[jWaSiMhE]

one other thing i have noticed is is tht in the teams history the fa trophy is down as being won twice

EG)

fa trophy

Winner 2009

fa trophy

winner 2009

is this 2 do with the new fa trophy?

can this be rectified because this wud be another con against a new fa cup system

[uncle ron]

ok will this have the proper named rounds or will it be altered slightly like SB's

and also iv read about remving the fa cup and creating a new one removes things like TV matches does the new update include tht?

because i think having a few teams missing (as long as thy are in it if thy progress up the pyramid) is worth it to have tv matches and the like

The FA Cup will be altered. Due to the limitations of the editor it will call the 3rd round - 4th round. This is due to only 4 qualifying rounds being possible in the editor. All teams (including Premier League and Championship teams) enter at the correct date.

Also no Level 10 teams will enter the competition (as I would have needed to create the leagues and many of the clubs) therefore I have not created the extra preliminary round.

Matches are also not moved for TV and no TV appearance money is given.

I will not be using this FA Cup amendment as I hope to not be playing in the Level 7 and 8 for long so it is not an issue!

[uncle ron]

one other thing i have noticed is is tht in the teams history the fa trophy is down as being won twice

EG)

fa trophy

Winner 2009

fa trophy

winner 2009

is this 2 do with the new fa trophy?

can this be rectified because this wud be another con against a new fa cup system

I have no duplication issues with the FA Trophy history in my file.

[crouchaldinho]

My issues with the FA Cup and FA Trophy are that there are not currently the tools in the data editor to successfully and realistically recreate them.

[jWaSiMhE]

The FA Cup will be altered. Due to the limitations of the editor it will call the 3rd round - 4th round. This is due to only 4 qualifying rounds being possible in the editor. All teams (including Premier League and Championship teams) enter at the correct date.

Also no Level 10 teams will enter the competition (as I would have needed to create the leagues and many of the clubs) therefore I have not created the extra preliminary round.

Matches are also not moved for TV and no TV appearance money is given.

I will not be using this FA Cup amendment as I hope to not be playing in the Level 7 and 8 for long so it is not an issue!

i agree i prefer to keep the si verson of the cup until the editor has been improved

[uncle ron]

My issues with the FA Cup and FA Trophy are that there are not currently the tools in the data editor to successfully and realistically recreate them.

Yea, I've tried this FA Cup creation and tested it. Whilst it works the editor creation is too poor for the reasons above, i.e. no moving for TV, replays scheduled too close to original match etc etc. Now I can't be bothered to upload it

I think we should push SI to expand the FA Cup themselves so they can sort this issue out.

[uncle ron]

Although..... my FA Trophy does work and I feel is a fairly realistic representation.

[crouchaldinho]

The other thing, of course, is regionalisation of the qualifying rounds in both competitions.

SB and I have made various requests to SI so hopefully we will see improved options in the future.

Right now, I'm personally not going to play with a modified FA Cup or FA Trophy. I just don't feel that the editor can do it justice.

C.

[jWaSiMhE]

Although..... my FA Trophy does work and I feel is a fairly realistic representation.

out of interest, what are the parts which arent 100% accurate; is it just the regional qualifing or is there anything else tht is not true to real life

[GMO]

Thank you for your competition download.

Is there any problem with level 7 and 8 teams financially?

Will they continually lose money or has enough extra prize money been added?

[Coops-KFC]

You cannot mix multiple XML files where changes are made to a nation's league structure on both files.

Perhaps you could use this file and holiday until your Level 9 team are promoted?

great work Ron, wished i had spotted this thread earlier!!

just wanted to double-check on XML issues, as i had been making some changes myself to Kingstonian squad, however in my update i had also made Reg.Prem leagues playable and re-named Isth/Sth/Nth leagues.

would i be able to use my changes if i removed nation rules to revert level 7 as non-playable?

also how do you add multiple XML's? is that the merge data option in editor? which way round do you load data?

many thanks,

Paul

[uncle ron]

Thank you for your competition download.

Is there any problem with level 7 and 8 teams financially?

Will they continually lose money or has enough extra prize money been added?

Realistic prize money has been added, clubs loose some money and many finances are insecure... just like in real life.

[uncle ron]

out of interest, what are the parts which arent 100% accurate; is it just the regional qualifing or is there anything else tht is not true to real life

Qualifying rounds are not regional.

[red rainbow]

My advice would be to play this one red rainbow, mainly because it just focuses on adding steps 3 and 4 of our 'non-League' game, and also because it doesn't include the vast amount of cups in SB's update.

... Thanks a lot, crouchaldinho, I'll start a new game tonight

And well done, uncle ron, for your impressive work and for your pyramid in first post, maybe a little "cosmetic" touch of class for you beside English Channel but an essential help for foreign players who doesn't know your lower leagues...

[crouchaldinho]

Good luck red rainbow!

And don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have about the English non-League game. I'm sure Uncle Ron or I will try to answer anything you want to ask.

C.

[uncle ron]

... Thanks a lot, crouchaldinho, I'll start a new game tonight

And well done, uncle ron, for your impressive work and for your pyramid in first post, maybe a little "cosmetic" touch of class for you beside English Channel but an essential help for foreign players who doesn't know your lower leagues...

Good to hear you are starting a game.

As Crouchaldinho says, any questions on the English non-leagues I'll be happy to help