The 2007/08 Chelsea Thread

[TheRandomGuy]

80, and assuming United are next, that's probably where it dies.

[morton2003]

Wp Chelsea

[Philip Rolfe]

Absolute ********, I've said it for God knows how long and been fairly adamant, but we will win nothing with this **** in charge. Been United's title since day one but apparently not, well here you go, on a ****ing plate.

Essien MotM, Joey second, everyone else can **** off.

[Philip Rolfe]

In infinitely better news, Di Santo scored a hattrick for the Reserves at Spurs tonight. In the team now pls, might as well.

[Didier]

Have no idea who I want to replace Grant.

Well I do, Jose, but that's not happening.

Do not want Rijkaard at all, and no-one from the Premiership stands out as being good enough.

Sven is a lovely chap, but not convinced he's a great manager, which is what we need.

Stealing Ramos from Spurs would be pretty funny, but their league form hasn't been great, and I don't know much about his time in Spain (record sounds fantastic though).

Moyes - very promising, but again, we're one of the biggest teams in the world, I would only want someone with a proven track-record.

[Poyplemonkeys]

Avram's off in the summer

Too ****ing right too, not least for how he's completely frozen some players out of the team. Sweep and Sheva spring to mind immediately. Sheva's been ready for some minutes for ages. Took a late goal to get him 30s on the pitch tonight ffs.

Essien is not a ******* rightback

[FungusMungus]

Originally posted by Didier:

Have no idea who I want to replace Grant.

Well I do, Jose, but that's not happening.

Do not want Rijkaard at all, and no-one from the Premiership stands out as being good enough.

Sven is a lovely chap, but not convinced he's a great manager, which is what we need.

Stealing Ramos from Spurs would be pretty funny, but their league form hasn't been great, and I don't know much about his time in Spain (record sounds fantastic though).

Moyes - very promising, but again, we're one of the biggest teams in the world, I would only want someone with a proven track-record.

Wouldn't mind Hiddink tbh.

[Philip Rolfe]

I've just renewed my season ticket, am I a mug? \o/

[Poyplemonkeys]

If you decide you're a mug halfway through the season sell it to me

Laudrup seems to be doing wondrous things with Getafe, would that be too much of a risk?

[Didier]

Originally posted by FungusMungus:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Didier:

Have no idea who I want to replace Grant.

Well I do, Jose, but that's not happening.

Do not want Rijkaard at all, and no-one from the Premiership stands out as being good enough.

Sven is a lovely chap, but not convinced he's a great manager, which is what we need.

Stealing Ramos from Spurs would be pretty funny, but their league form hasn't been great, and I don't know much about his time in Spain (record sounds fantastic though).

Moyes - very promising, but again, we're one of the biggest teams in the world, I would only want someone with a proven track-record.

Wouldn't mind Hiddink tbh. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He does have an excellent record, but for some reason just doesn't excite me at all.

Any innovative, controversial, young Portugese mavericks out there?

[Benoit2]

Originally posted by Matt Cavanagh:

I'll reiterate what I said in the match thread. the best team has won the league - congratulations.

The best team always wins the league, by definition. Im not gonna congratulate Man Utd until they've won it mathematically though. Neither will I publicly come out and praise Ronaldo unless he personally ends our home run.

Originally posted by TheRandomGuy:

As long as he isn't directly in charge of the team I don't gaf what happens to him.

Agreed. I dont have something against him personally, its not his fault he's simply incompetent. Or maybe it is, but I just dont care. As long as he stays way clear of first team matters (and reserves and youth team as well for that matter), I dont care where he is or what he does. If he stays the way he is right now, we'd never hear him speak anymore anyway.

Originally posted by Philip Rolfe:

Absolute ********, I've said it for God knows how long and been fairly adamant, but we will win nothing with this **** in charge.

Which is exactly why Im putting my hopes on the CL. For Grant to win anything, he'll need a ******** of luck. Luck cant win you the PL, but it can win you the CL. Luck tends to go to the unexpected side and carries an element of irony with it. Grant winning the CL is both unexpected and ironic, since its obvious he'll never win anything.

So dont dispair people, this year's CL has our name written all over it. Finally beat Liverpool in the semi's and win the final in Moscow.

The sarcasm in that is of course that even though a story might be perfect, it doesnt mean reality will live up to it. Still no reason to believe we cant realistically win it though, its just three matches seperating us from it, and my CL dream is still very much alive.

[TheRandomGuy]

Sven isn't the most exciting manager in the world, but as has been said a million times: dull 1-0 wins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exciting 4-4 draws.

Don't want Rijkaard, never struck me as a particularly good manager, or someone that deals with pressure particularly well.

Ramos would be good, but there's no way he's leaving Spurs after half a season.

Moyes won't leave Everton, and I doubt we'd go for him anyway.

My No 1 choice, as I said in the match thread is Hiddink. A supposed good friend of Abramovich (the main criteria for getting the job it would seem), and a fantastic manager to boot.

[Didier]

Jesus, I know our peformances have been really average at times but Grant's Chelsea have still kept within yapping distance of a great United team for much of the season, far out-peformed Liverpool (in the league), and achieved more (admittedly with a far more expensive squad) than the-best-manager-in-the-world at Arsenal.

I know the players have had a lot to do with that, but think calling him 'incompetent' is harsh. As you say, we still have every chance in the CL.

I want him to go, but results wise at least, he hasn't been awful.

[Didier]

Originally posted by TheRandomGuy:

Sven isn't the most exciting manager in the world, but as has been said a million times: dull 1-0 wins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exciting 4-4 draws.

To be fair, City have played some quite nice football this season. Your still right though.

[TheRandomGuy]

Originally posted by Didier:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheRandomGuy:

Sven isn't the most exciting manager in the world, but as has been said a million times: dull 1-0 wins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exciting 4-4 draws.

To be fair, City have played some quite nice football this season. Your still right though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We played quite nice football under Jose a lot of the time tbh, but we could grind out a scrappy 1-0 when needed, and it's those scrappy 1-0s that can make all the difference.

[Didier]

Originally posted by TheRandomGuy:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Didier:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheRandomGuy:

Sven isn't the most exciting manager in the world, but as has been said a million times: dull 1-0 wins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exciting 4-4 draws.

To be fair, City have played some quite nice football this season. Your still right though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We played quite nice football under Jose a lot of the time tbh, but we could grind out a scrappy 1-0 when needed, and it's those scrappy 1-0s that can make all the difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't be ridiculous, as if Chelsea could ever do anything but HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF.

[THC_lean]

Those scrappy 1-0's seemed to come around quite a lot. I think Grant is in a difficult position, Mourinho's problems with Abramovich were partly down to chelsea not playing "entertaining" enough football, im not fully up on the facts s i dont regulrly watch chelsea but often when i did see them, they were by no stretch of the imagination in the same league as United and Arsenal in terms of entertainment.

So now Grant is being now coming under fire as Chelsea concede more but undoubedly play more entertaining football. I can remember 2 4-4 draws this season!

Im not saying Grant shouldnt be under pressure as his tactics have undoubedly been poor and suspect on a number of the big occasions but I think his position isnt made any easier by being expected to play more entertaining attacking football but maintain chelsea's tightness at the back, especiall as he has been without terry,cech and carvalio for parts of the season.

[goon]

Defensively minded organised football is more entertaining than poor football.

Chelsea's games now are entertaining because of the events that happen in the game rather than the brand of football they play.

[Mardy_Bum]

a very interesting read about your youth team

[Philip Rolfe]

Yeah, I read it on Sunday, replied to him too (nothing back yet). If anyone's bothered.

After reading Duncan Castles' piece on Chelsea's Academy, I'd like to offer some comments if I may. Firstly, I'd like to thank him for his piece, as there are far too few academy-focused columns around right now, at a time when interest in youth football is arguably higher than ever. However, he raises points of contention with me which I simply have to disagree with.

He comments that there is yet to be a single player to break into Chelsea's first-team squad from the academy system since the hiring of Frank Arnesen. Which is right, but it doesn't take context into account. Arnesen inherited an academy neglected largely by Claudio Ranieri and Gianluca Vialli, and one in serious need of an overhaul which would take time. It also fails to take into account properly the aim of producing starting from 2010, which means the first group of players signed by Arnesen would be approaching 19 and 20 years of age - in effect Sahar and Sinclair, who are undeniably the closest to achieving this.

It then continues:

"As Arsenal's smaller-scale scouting system continues to push at least one youth a year into their first team, Chelsea's nursery has postponed its delivery dates."

Chelsea haven't postponed their delivery dates, 2010 has always been the target. As for Arsenal pushing one per year through, that's very much debatable. 2007/08 would be Nickas Bendtner, whilst there was nobody in 2006/07 - Armand Traore would be the closest but if six League Cup appearances alongside one FA Cup one count as a breakthrough, then surely you must credit Scott Sinclair with the same this season. The same applies for 2005/06, with the only other players breaking through since Fabregas being Diaby, Denilson, Clichy, and Walcott - none of whom are Arsenal academy products and all were signed from other clubs after the age of 17 (a year older than a first year academy scholar).

Justin Hoyte played some 20+ games in 2006/07 but is the only true Arsenal academy product in their current squad (by your very own definition, since you raise the issue of Chelsea signing players up whilst Manchester City have a team who have been at the club for years), and as such they have no more than Chelsea, who in John Terry, undeniably older but also a player who had achieved far more by Hoyte's age.

Although this year's team, held 1-1 at home 10 days ago, could lift the Youth Cup on Wednesday, there have been other problems. Chelsea have struggled in the FA Premier Academy and Reserve League, and stand fifth- and third-bottom of the respective tables.

Again, this displays a rather stunning lack of understanding of context. In the Reserve League, the team's best youngsters have been instead loaned out to Football League clubs, where they have largely earned rave reviews (see Ryan Bertrand at Norwich and Oldham, Jack Cork at Scunthorpe and Liam Bridcutt at Yeovil, with Sinclair and Sahar also spending time out on loan). As a result, the Reserve side has become much younger and often plays against men, which is a steep learning curve but one Chelsea are willing to take - I refer you to Jose Mourinho's suggestions of a Chelsea B Team from mid-2007, when the Reserve league came in for criticism (backed up by Sir Alex Ferguson and Rafael Benitez).

The Academy team being "fifth-bottom" of their division is a poor negative stance to take, since there's only 11 teams in the group. Mid-table is entirely fair, and with a number of games in hand on teams above them, the final placing should be nearer the top of a division that Ruud Kaiser's team last season only failed to win on goal difference from Southampton. But then "Last year, Arnesen's choice as youth-team coach, Ruud Kaiser, was removed from duties two games before the end of his only season at the club.". Chelsea will always claim that individual development is paramount when compared to results, and with the success of the FA Youth Cup team this season, many league games have given chances to use the younger first-year players and enable them to develop as well, and over half a dozen schoolboys have made significant contributions to boot.

Moving on:

Manchester City's youth programme cost the club just £1.6m last year, yet over the past decade has delivered 25 players to the first team and 'around 30' to some level of League football in the UK.

And I ask you in response: what have they won? A team pottering around in mid-table or recovering from relegation to the third tier of English football will have significantly less pressure than a team at the very top of the game. The figures are also ignorant of Chelsea's record over the last ten years - in late 2007 I provided a list to the BBC of players who have come through Chelsea's academy to make a senior professional debut, of which there are 23, and all of them are still in league football, including Premiership names such as Michael Duberry and Carlton Cole. Fair play to Manchester City for turning a substantial profit on their players, but as a selling club that is their operative - maybe if they'd have kept their products they might not be faltering in mid-table yet again this season.

I'm trying not to be too negative because I am genuinely appreciative of articles such as this one, but it's yet another piece in the media with a stance against Chelsea. The future in Chelsea's youth system is incredibly bright - this past weekend (April 12th) the Under 16 side won 7-1 with a quite spectacular attacking performance the likes of which people want to see from Chelsea's first team. In an era where your Bojan's and Messi's break through at 17 or younger, there is an increased expectation on teams to find their own of the same age. But these are generational talents, incredibly rare, and forcing your own through will only hinder development. In the last fifteen calender months, Chelsea have had Scott Sinclair, Ben Sahar, Michael Woods, and Sam Hutchinson make full debuts, three in the Premiership. Lee Sawyer, Harry Worley and Rhys Taylor have been unused substitutes. This is real progress, and there is more to come, of that I can assure you.

[McMaster#28]

This is real progress, and there is more to come, of that I can assure you.

You tell him

[Benoit2]

Originally posted by Philip Rolfe:

Yeah, I read it on Sunday, replied to him too (nothing back yet). If anyone's bothered.

Had already read it on cfcnet. On the one hand its pretty much pointless trying to speak sense into an ignorant person, but I agree it still feels nice to write it down. Do let us know if you get a reply.

[MixitupMixitdictator]

Di Santo hat trick for the ressies

[beffrey]

Yeah I've been following that Cfcnet Youth thread religiously for over a year now, about the only read there though that isn't crawling with idiots.

Your blog isn't coming along nicely too, Phil.

[beffrey]

IS coming

[McMaster#28]

A freudian slip there Beffrey

[Ratinho]

Originally posted by Matt Cavanagh:

I'll reiterate what I said in the match thread. the best team has won the league - congratulations.

I'm still amazed that we were in a title race anyway.

Agree entirely with this. Think you can compare yourselves and us in terms of the league this season, but even though we are both in relative touching distance of them, United have been streets ahead of us both.

[beffrey]

I still contend that it was injuries to Riccy, JT, and Cech that did us - remember how heroic we used to be defensively? We have been truly spanked this year though, far more so than the league suggests. We are still boring to watch though no-one really seems to care anymore, probably because we'll be winning **** all in the foreseeable future.

[Ratinho]

Agree about Cech especially. No offence to Cudicini but he does seem to struggle to just drop in as a reserve keeper (as would any previously first choice keeper) and i don't think he's been good. Some terrific saves but never looked that solid to me.

And Carvalho is second only to Ferdinand in this league, so any side would miss that badly.

[Didier]

Originally posted by Ratinho:

Agree about Cech especially. No offence to Cudicini but he does seem to struggle to just drop in as a reserve keeper (as would any previously first choice keeper) and i don't think he's been good. Some terrific saves but never looked that solid to me.

And Carvalho is second only to Ferdinand in this league, so any side would miss that badly.

Spot on. Also agree with beffrey - Alex has done very well when he has come in for JT, but I think Terry has quite a bit impact as captain, and no doubt that was a huge miss.

[shanyi]

Originally posted by Ratinho:

Agree about Cech especially. No offence to Cudicini but he does seem to struggle to just drop in as a reserve keeper (as would any previously first choice keeper) and i don't think he's been good. Some terrific saves but never looked that solid to me.

And Carvalho is second only to Ferdinand in this league, so any side would miss that badly.

While I'd normally agree with those comments about Cech and Cudicini, I think Carlo has done very well coming in, especially once he'd played in a few matches and regained some match practice, while Petr has had a very inconsistent season and made some blunders in important games.

[Ratinho]

Not going to pretend i've seen as much as the average Chelsea fan, but i've seen as many 'blunders' from Cudicini and far more quality performances from Cech. I think he's set his standards a lot higher than any keeper in the world, any inconsistency going to be picked up on.

[Ched]

Originally posted by Philip Rolfe:

No idea, take a pic of the shirt and mark up what you're struggling with, see if we can help.

Unfortunately it's gold pen on a dark blue shirt so it doesn't photo too well, i'll have a tinker with the lighting a will post them if i can get a decent pic.

There's only 5 i have yet to decipher, but it's quite annoying.

An exceptional reply to the guy questioning our youth btw. Bravo!

[Philip Rolfe]

Tal's redeeming himself quite well it seems

"I knew that nothing good would come with Grant as Chelsea coach."

\o/

[Poyplemonkeys]

haha, wp TBH tbh

Avram and Tal been given special dispensation to go on our tour of Malaysia fwiw. They don't like Jews over there.

[deez0r]

To be honest, cant see either of them being here anyway.

[Benoit2]

Tal fined €120,000 for his outburst. I bet it was worth it though

On an unrelated note: Grant has truelly lost it now one thinks:

Grant said: “Will it take a flair player like Kaka or Messi? I will not reject that one of the names that you say will be here.

“Will they come? I think so, yes. This is a big club.â€

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/35244/You-Av-g...make-us-great-again/

^^ makes for some interesting reading.

Will Grant really be our manager next season? If not, who then will it be? And just how much of an overhaul will our squad get? Is Roman really willing to pay hundreds of millions to get any player he wants, so long as the player is interested? (if even Ben-Haim wouldnt join us with Grant in charge...) Are we really gonna see a drastic change of style next season?

Those are the big questions, of what can we expect this summer. It'll certainly prove to be an interesting one. I bet whichever manager is in charge this summer will feel like a kid in a candy store, though some candy might reject.

And to be fair, who wouldnt resist the urge to do a little celebration if we were to sign quality young players like Agüero, Benzema, Villa, or in Grants words, Kaká and Messi, despite knowing they'll first have to prove themselves in England and in our team, because nothing can be taken for Granted?

What are the odds on us buying the Euro 2008 best eleven btw?

[Benoit2]

Awful spelling of truly btw

[TheRandomGuy]

In a totally non anti-Semitic way, both Grant and TBH can fo. Useless twats.

[shanyi]

Everything said in that article, even taken into account that it's reported by the Daily Sun (though a similar story was reported in the Times yesterday), nicely sums up quite how delusional and unsuited to the job Avraham Grant is- if he thinks more investment is going to solve all Chelsea's problems, he's got a nasty surprise coming. Distressingly, I still get the feeling Abramovich is going to stick with him. Quite surprised Ben-Haim's the latest one to have an outburst regardless of his lack of play-time or indeed ability, as Israelis for better or for worse are normally a tight knit bunch.

[Benoit2]

The fact Grant has said he wants Kaká and Messi is certainly picking up speed. It'll be interesting to see what kind of frenzy the media make out of this one, and how quickly Kaká and Messi will come out to reject us

[McMaster#28]

though a similar story was reported in the Times yesterday

Yeah the Time said the first-team squad (not as in first XI) players leaving could reach double figures.

[deez0r]

Hmm lets se if I can hit double figures.

1) Hilario

2) Ben Haim

3) Sidwell

4) Shevchenko

5) Pizarro

6) Malouda

They would be the ones that immediately spring to mind. Possibly Sweep as well.

[McMaster#28]

I can't remember exactly who they mentioned, but it was people like Cudicini to Villa. Lampard going as well.

[Philip Rolfe]

Carlo, Drogba, Bridge, Belletti are the other names being chucked around to leave.

[deez0r]

Belletti I could see leaving simply because of his age as hes had a decent season. Didier will leave if he is unhappy (no idea what state of mind hes in half the time), Carlo I can see staying as backup and Bridge I really cant see leaving, would be a mistake if we let him go.

[josh_b]

Lampard/Carvalho if Mourinho joins Barca?

[orion318]

drogba almost certainly and essien probably will go wherever mourinho goes to.

carvalho probably will leave too and isn't lampard's contract almost up?

Sheva going back to milan apparently...quick ones of the top of my head..

oh yes Malouda since he came to play for Mourinho and with Drogba so if with JM gone he can't be arsed no way he's sticking around when didier leaves

[shanyi]

I'd say Makelele, given his age, is almost certain to be going at the end of the season.

I'd guess that Cudicini, Ben-Haim, Sidwell, Makelele, Malouda, Pizarro, Shevchenko, Drogba are almost certain to be gone by next season. Hilario, Belletti, Bridge, Lampard and Wright-Phillips are quite likely, but not definite, departures.

[kingcav]

belletti is king.

drogba is certainly gone in the summer. sheva and sidwell too. maybe ben-haim, but he might not mind bench warming.