Implementing Tactics for FM09: The Final Version...

[mischievous]

Hello Loversleaper. I've started a save with Dag & Red. Which tactics should I use? Media predict: 22nd. I'm swapping between Athletico 11 (Fav) and Athletico 6 (Underdog)

Home (Heavy Favorites):

Home (Close Odds):

Home (Underdogs):

Away (Heavy Favorites):

Away (Close Odds):

Away (Underdogs):

Get A Goal:

Shut up Shop:

What would be your choice?

Thanks

[Loversleaper]

Hello Loversleaper. I've started a save with Dag & Red. Which tactics should I use? Media predict: 22nd. I'm swapping between Athletico 11 (Fav) and Athletico 6 (Underdog)

Home (Heavy Favorites):

Home (Close Odds):

Home (Underdogs):

Away (Heavy Favorites):

Away (Close Odds):

Away (Underdogs):

Get A Goal:

Shut up Shop:

What would be your choice?

Thanks

Mischievious: I would look at the MK Dons game explained in this thread to get some good ideas how you could play the game, because this is exactly how I would have played Dag & Red. Mainly down in the lower leagues I recommend more direct passing type of tactics but if you assemble a great team for your league (and gelled) you can attempt the more short passing types of tactics, weather permitting...

[mischievous]

Mischievious: I would look at the MK Dons game explained in this thread to get some good ideas how you could play the game, because this is exactly how I would have played Dag & Red. Mainly down in the lower leagues I recommend more direct passing type of tactics but if you assemble a great team for your league (and gelled) you can attempt the more short passing types of tactics, weather permitting...

Thanks mate

[TheMister]

If the rumours are true then these tactics should work just fine for FM10.

LL, I've not seen anything regarding this, other than it'll probably not be possible to port tactics from 09 to 10 - have you seen different? It would be a lot easier if we could.

[Mr Enigma]

Loversleaper, loved the in-depth detail of the opening post and have also read a few of your matches with the MK Dons. I've decided to give these tactics a whirl and have started a new game with Newcastle. I've tried to set up as many friendlies as I could to try and get the gelling started but now even after 8 matches it's still not good enough. I haven't bought any new players either due their being too many new faces at the club. My first 5 games of the season are Chelsea (H) (I know, worst. first. opposition. FACT), Bolton (A), Liverpool (H), Portsmouth (A), Blackburn (H). Am I right in thinking I should play MilanNormal at home and the Defensive Atletico away against these teams?

EDIT

Well I played the first game against Chelsea at home and decided to go with Milan as we do have good quality in the side. Managed to get the boys into halftime with 0-0 so again told them "We can win this". Martins wasn't playing well so I decided to tell him I have faith in him (rather then be angry so early in the season) and it seemed to work as he gave us the lead 2 minutes in. However 2 minutes later Chelsea went up the pitch and scored. 5 minutes later they scored again (Could be that Colocinni has'nt settled yet as the defence looked like headless chickens). Now this is what takes the cake. Lampard fouled Xisco in the box and we get a penalty. Colocinni scores and I decide to swap one Guthrie (who's playing MC) with Butt to sure uf the midfield. I also put defensive fullbacks on as I was happy with one point. What happens? Chelsea kick off, pass back to Carvalho who launches it behind Enrique, cross to the far post and 3-2 to Chelsea... Oh well. Good performance which didn't really need that result.

[Loversleaper]

TheMister: From SI towers they confirmed that tactics from this era still can be easily implemented in FM10, so I am guessing that they are not going to drastically change the 'valuables' that make up the ME...

Mr.Enigma: I would have played more cautiously just to see how the team reacts in the ME. That would mean the first game home against Chelsea I would have started with the 4-4-2_Athletico(11), and changed to 4-4-2_MilanNormal if I wasn't making an impact or I went behind. I would have also changed to the 4-2-4_England'66 in the last ten minutes if I was trailing by one. I know Newcastle needs some matches before you can get the most out of them, and just guessing I think you will have difficulties the first 15 games. Newcastle needs long term planning with squad (need to change several initial players out due to them being 'disruptive'), and the whole staff should be slowly changed as well.

Away to Bolton I would start out with 4-4-2_Athletico(6), but I would have the Athletico(11) ready in the second half if you are behind. Home to Liverpool I would also start out with the 4-4-2_Athletico(11) as I would have against Chelsea and only switch up to MilanNormal if you go behind or are not making any impact. Away to Portsmouth would be played the same way as against Bolton. Home to Blackburn looks more like a good opertunity to play something more attacking like the 4-4-2_MilanNomal but I suggest that you have 4-4-2_MilanHighPress ready if you are not creating at least the same ammount of shots as opponent.

This periode (first 5-10 matches) is when there are no indications on Match Form which has a big bearing on how the AI plays against you. If you start to win more games then you loose your Match Form will indicate that you are a good side (and tactically strong) so the AI will start playing more cautiously against you. As soon as you notice this happens then you have to start playing more attacking and at home you need to play High Pressure tactics. I think it is a good thing to say 'disappointing' to players that are underperforming during matches but won't 'hang' them in the press before at least 15-20 matches played (if they are underperforming on a regular basis)...

P.S. I hope you have the Updated versions (from 25/09) as they are slightly better statistically then the first version which were more of the 'test' version type of tactics (where I made some small mistakes with the settings and didn't put too much effort in set pieces and other stuff)...

[Loversleaper]

Mr Enigma: Another thing I forgot to mention is that Chelsea are most likely playing a tactic with wingers further up the pitch (in the AMR/L postions), I take away any forward runs from the Full Backs to hold them back because the ball behind Enrique indicated that you should have done this (be aware of this in the future, like the game against Livepool for example). I will for FM10 be more informative how to combat formations...

[Mr Enigma]

Aha. Well I'd already played those matches before I saw the response here. I got dominated by Bolton away and lost 2-0 but I did start with the Atletico (6) IIRC. Earned a point at home to Liverpool which I feel is a good result. 1-1 away to Portsmouth and a tight 2-1 win over Blackburn. The team don't look fluid at all and seem a long way from a settled side. Should be intresting

btw Would you say when my AM says "the team is blending well" that I could start to be more attacking? Or does the gelled part need to be better?

[Loversleaper]

Aha. Well I'd already played those matches before I saw the response here. I got dominated by Bolton away and lost 2-0 but I did start with the Atletico (6) IIRC. Earned a point at home to Liverpool which I feel is a good result. 1-1 away to Portsmouth and a tight 2-1 win over Blackburn. The team don't look fluid at all and seem a long way from a settled side. Should be intresting

btw Would you say when my AM says "the team is blending well" that I could start to be more attacking? Or does the gelled part need to be better?

"Team blending well" could mean that you can play a little more of the wider tactics, but in the very early stage of the season I usually play tight (narrow). The game against Bolton looks as if you should have played 4-4-2_Athletico(11) after you went down by a goal. If you dominate the game then even if I score to 1-1 I might not change to more defensive and see if I can win the game. 4-4-2_Athletico(6) is only truely effective if the opponent is attacking you further up the pitch, but since Bolton dominated possession would mean that they were playing a more controlling tactic. AI controlling tactics on their home field usually implements a 'middle' Mentality outlook so in this circumstance the best Mentality framework to counter it would also be a 'middle' Mentality framework. But I think if you give it a chance you can find out how to play the game, these tactics don't win the game on their own and you need to be able to change strategies in games until you start to find a 'comfort zone' (Mentality wise). When you know pretty much how your opponents are 'acting' towards the tactics then it becomes much easier to know how to combat the next opponent. In my book you have basically 3 types of opponents: the bad teams, the middle teams and the good teams. With-in these 'groups' you start to realise that you basically combat them the same way when you know which tactic works for which group, and you need to look for signs when to push up to the next level (Mentality wise).

It will take some practice and you need to 'discover' the overall strength of your squad, it's a little like feeling your way around in the dark at first but then you catch on and it becomes easier. I can't guarentee that you will have ultimate success because success is messured in how good you are at choosing the right tactic. I still get an opponent wrong from time to time by choosing the wrong tactics, but I am personally much better than just a month ago...

[Mr Enigma]

Well I've played through to December now and after a shaky start I decided to go another way. After 10 matches there was no hope for us, we we're in the relegation zone only dropping deeper (first win was after 10 games I think) so I needed to change things. I decided to go 4-3-3 instead with Duff and Jonas on the flanks and Owen up front by himself. First couple of games I played a defensive mentality with direct passing, high d-line and slow tempo (yes I know it goes against the whole linking passing similiar to your tempo) but it worked well. We managed to grab points away to Aston Villa and Man City and even win a few away games. We also won all our home games bar one (lost 2-1 to Man Utd) but now we're where I thought we'd be, mid-table. Hopefully now we can push on for a European place.

Thanks for your help though Loversleaper but I decided to go my own route instead in the end

[Loversleaper]

Well I've played through to December now and after a shaky start I decided to go another way. After 10 matches there was no hope for us, we we're in the relegation zone only dropping deeper (first win was after 10 games I think) so I needed to change things. I decided to go 4-3-3 instead with Duff and Jonas on the flanks and Owen up front by himself. First couple of games I played a defensive mentality with direct passing, high d-line and slow tempo (yes I know it goes against the whole linking passing similiar to your tempo) but it worked well. We managed to grab points away to Aston Villa and Man City and even win a few away games. We also won all our home games bar one (lost 2-1 to Man Utd) but now we're where I thought we'd be, mid-table. Hopefully now we can push on for a European place.

Thanks for your help though Loversleaper but I decided to go my own route instead in the end

Fair enough, I don't know what had happened but you've got me intrigued with what the problem is. I think you just pushed me into trying out Newcastle and will povide some screen shots and what not. Newcastle is a sleeping giant and on the steps of breaking into the top 4 with in the first 2-3 seasons with the right approach. But best of luck and if you have time we can see how things turn out...

[Mr Enigma]

Fair enough, I don't know what had happened but you've got me intrigued with what the problem is. I think you just pushed me into trying out Newcastle and will povide some screen shots and what not. Newcastle is a sleeping giant and on the steps of breaking into the top 4 with in the first 2-3 seasons with the right approach. But best of luck and if you have time we can see how things turn out...

I think the problem is just about every problem I have with trying other people's tactics, you can truely never get into the head of the creator. Could also be that I didn't have the right staff that you usually look for Or could be the third reason, the start of the season opponents were actually quite tough with Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal all coming within 2-3 months

[TheMister]

LL, regarding my earlier question, I've just noticed in FM10 Blog 7 it says any existing tactics will work (or not! LOL) in in the new game

I think what I may have read before was regarding simply importing them - there could be new ranges to the existing slider values, so it wouldn't be possible to simply port them. If a slider now has a range of 30, then your 10 (of the existing 20 range) would have a different effect for example.

[Loversleaper]

LL, regarding my earlier question, I've just noticed in FM10 Blog 7 it says any existing tactics will work (or not! LOL) in in the new game

I think what I may have read before was regarding simply importing them - there could be new ranges to the existing slider values, so it wouldn't be possible to simply port them. If a slider now has a range of 30, then your 10 (of the existing 20 range) would have a different effect for example.

I think the reason that SI had implemented a slider with 20 notches is simply so that the 'calculating mechanism' that makes up the ME has a procentage outlook (1 notch = 5%), which somehow coincides with the Players' attributes (also out of 20). The part that is missing might be the whole 'player role' thoery where we as Managers can decide if our midfielder is a 'box to box' or a 'holding midfielder', which I have real mixed feelings about. The problem here is that normally a Manager has to find a 'holding' midfielder (for example) that has the right 'attributes' and other players that suit his style/type of play, but now we can give them roles that they are not built for. I just hope that this game doesn't become too easy...

[Mr Enigma]

Right, deciding to give these sets another chance but not with Newcastle. Wanted a bit of a challenge so I've decided to go for the Austrian national team The aim will be to try and nick that 2nd spot and looking at the group it's not impossible but it'll be difficult. First match is at home to France so I'm looking to go with the Atletico (11) with pacy strikers up front and one DMC and a hardworking MC in midfield to attempt to get a draw

[Loversleaper]

Right, deciding to give these sets another chance but not with Newcastle. Wanted a bit of a challenge so I've decided to go for the Austrian national team The aim will be to try and nick that 2nd spot and looking at the group it's not impossible but it'll be difficult. First match is at home to France so I'm looking to go with the Atletico (11) with pacy strikers up front and one DMC and a hardworking MC in midfield to attempt to get a draw

In the mean time I managed to play a good 15 games with Newcastle last night and after dinner tonight I'll try to see if I can't finish up most of the season. I think it is going ok so far, although you need to get rid of some players as fast as possible. The wage budget is holding Newcastle away from the 'big time' and these high wage players simply don't 'cut it' (not good enough). But I think you can do quite a lot with them and you have some good options available which looks so far so good...

[Loversleaper]

Ok, before I write a little about getting the 'sleeping giant' Newcastle to awaken I would like to say a few words:

Some of you might be thinking why would I even want to spend time with a new game when FM10 is just around the corner. Well, it's because the approach to FM09 is going to be along the same lines as you are going to experience with FM10. You might have tools (tactical wizard) which make it easier to make workable tactics, but they (SI) will still have the Mentality aspect in the game and will remain so for future generations. The ME has become a calculating machine and this has components (sliders and attributes) that make up the visual aspect we all see in the game. These components effect the Match Stats and they are not as random as many have claimed. The components all add up to a certain value and this 'value' determines if what you are implementing is successful or not, so that is why I can't really see the Game Makers change this aspect drastically and why I think that future FM games will follow the same direction...

Newcastle: This club has a lot of initial problems. First of all, the wage budget has the potential to get some very decent players but the club already has players on huge wages that simply are not quality enough to push for the top spaces. There are some few younger talented players and they are what you need to build around. The coaches also need serious work but the problem to start with is that nobody of any quality really wants to come to the club yet. Media prediction is 11th, but I've decided to say that I'm going for a top half finish which slightly increased my wage budget and transfer fee, on top of that I've decided to give them a bonus for a higher league position finish to hopefully boost up the squad as several of them are in 'poor' moral form and need motivation in this downhearted squad.

The Squad: So far I am playing a 4-4-2 but did have to change to a 4-1-4-1/4-1-2-2-1 due to injuries (injury prone players need to be spotted and passed on to another club) so I still had quality players for the positions. I do at times use the other tactics then the 4-4-2 to combat opposition formations as some have weakness you can exploit or strengths you can nulify.

Transfers:http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7278/transfersnus1.jpg

As mentioned I am doing what I can to offload the huge wage players and I am quite satisfied with what I have been able to accomplish because sometimes you can't get rid of players due to this (wages). The only real quality players that will come to my club are quite young but they all have the potential to be regulars very soon, and they are also strong enough to fill the gaps in case of injuries and suspentions. The transfer mission is still not quite over yet as I need to offload the following players as soon as I have a chance: Duff, Capaca, Butt and Ameobi. This would free up a lot of cash flow and they all can easiliy be replaced (upgaded more like it), long term changes would be: Harper, Barton, Jonas and I am still quite undecided about Owen (he is injury prone and huge wage) because I am certain that I can get someone who is just as good. The keeper Harper is not good enough and I will hopefully change him out in the January transfer window. I have set some targets for the GK position and the immediate one is Ustari (Getafe) or one of those french keepers that are close to their national team and I will be going for one of them in the Jan window. If this succeeds then I will move to offload Harper regardless.

Squad:http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8757/squadnus1.jpg

Get to know your team, as shown that is my strongest team at the moment but Owen is just comming back from injury and I don't want to rush him so I'll keep him a little on the bench and try to get his form up in the League or FA Cup against easier opponents. So far I have only one striker that can 'hold up on ball' (Xisco) but he is still young so I might go for a real class strong striker as soon as I start having some money to spend (but other postions are more in demand right now). So if I use another striker instead of Xisco then I will take away 'hold up on ball' setting and have him swap postions with the left sided striker as the other strikers I have are more of the Fast Forward type (explained in post#1). The fullbacks are more quality then the first ones which will assist in my attacking play (quite important actually), so all in all I am satisfied with the squad now and pretty sure I can get this squad into Europe.

Coaches:http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3726/trainingcoachesnus1.jpg

This is very important for long term success and this is the best I could do with the available options. It's ok but in the next two years I need to make an effort to upgrade this whole department. Of course you get to aquire more coaches the bigger you clubs gets (which is our aim always). I sacked a Fitness coach and brought in 4 new coaches in all so far and don't think that I will change the ones I have before next season. Training regimes are important, especially having a Fitness regime that gets your squad fit for the season which you use the enire July month.

P.S. Due to the length of time it takes me to upload all these images (printing, pasting, uploading, typing, ect...) I will keep the Screenshots down to an appropriate size so I don't use hours typing instead of finishing this try-out or other important matters. I will give the option for viewers to request certain screen shots, otherwise I'll just show the more important ones. Thanks for your understanding...

[Corkey]

Loversleeper.

I'm a huge fan of the 4-3-3. I also see that you have introduced some more version of the 4-3-3. Now you have already given a some help for Version Picking, but with the new 4-3-3's I was wondering if you could give me another 'Gameplan' to go by?

Heavy Favorites (Home and Away):

Slight Favorites (Home and Away):

Neutral (Home and Away):

Slight Underdogs (Home and Away):

Heavy Underdogs (Home and Away):

'Shut up Shop':

'Get a Goal':

Cheers.

[Loversleaper]

Loversleeper.

I'm a huge fan of the 4-3-3. I also see that you have introduced some more version of the 4-3-3. Now you have already given a some help for Version Picking, but with the new 4-3-3's I was wondering if you could give me another 'Gameplan' to go by?

Heavy Favorites (Home and Away):

Slight Favorites (Home and Away):

Neutral (Home and Away):

Slight Underdogs (Home and Away):

Heavy Underdogs (Home and Away):

'Shut up Shop':

'Get a Goal':

Cheers.

Corkey: I would like to start out by saying that tactical assumptions has a lot to do with you what team you are or what type of a team you have become. In other words: your team has an overall 'value' (which will effect the ME) and a lot of times you need to know things like what is your media prediction, what type of players do you have and are you mostly big favorites, underdogs or are you going to be playing a lot of 'tight' matches? The 'shut up shop' and 'get a goal' should be obvious if you read the thread and I have made some 'tactical assumptions' which tells what you can do when you start to look at pre-match odds (but first you need to know what type of team you are: world class or top team, middle team or a relegation battler). I know if you look through the second and third post it should be easier to have an idea what to do, also when your team 'upgrades' to the next level (so to say)...

Mr Enigma: I am almost done with the first season with Newcastle. I didn't have much time this weekend due to football on saturday where Denmark played Sweden (I was in the stadium) and went out and partied because we are through to the World Cup in South Africa. I can say this though, Newcastle are not a bad team. You will have to be lucky to win the league first season but you can easily fight for a Champions League spot with the right player policy. As mentioned there are quite a few players that you absolutely have to get rid of and if you know which players 'get the job done' in this game then it will become much more easy to overachieve. But let's look at this later tonight where I will hopefully (99%) be finished with everything...

[TheMister]

LL, what formation are you going to look at first for FM10? A 433 (41221)?

442 is great for getting up the leagues, but once you're in the top half of the top division it's hard to beat a 433 - it's amazingly flexible.

[Loversleaper]

TheMister: I usually start out with simple 4-4-2's and see what is going on. From then on I always make a 4-3-3(4-1-2-2-1) set of tactics because I like to change in between these when I can. I will attemp the 4-2-3-1 (or 4-3-2-1) at one point just to mix things up, hard to say though which one I perfer most. Has a lot to do with the team you have and maybe which type of formation/tactic you will be up against.

On another note: I've finished the Newcastle season and I came close, reflecting back on the season I made a few tactical blunders plus a red card cost me dearly when you look at the final table it might have been different:http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/566/finaltablenus1.jpg but all in all I can't say that I am unsatisfied. I am on the right track and it (for sure) is only a question of a couple of star signings (or the ones I have mature and break into the first 11) to get me that little bit higher (point-wise).

I'll get back with some more screen shots and descriptions once I get up tomorrow and find some time. Quite an exciting game though (glad I tried it out) and played with some new players that I have never tried (but always had an eye on). For example that guy Sanchez (from Chile/Udinese) plus a couple others are real exciting and made the game that much more fun...

[rich ruzzian]

Is it possible to upload those 4-2-3-1 tactics again?

[Loversleaper]

Is it possible to upload those 4-2-3-1 tactics again?

If you mean for FM10 then I will have to disappoint you. I have tried to re-create some of these tactics (and some of my own personal ones) but have simply had to give up. There are so many bugs in the tactic screen that I simply couldn't create a single tactic, after many attempts I finally realised that there was no other option but to wait until these bugs are fixed. So my guess is that we are a couple of months away from seeing anything new (at least from my part). This time of year is also the toughest for me because I have to travel due to work for the next month or two so either way I won't have much time to look at the ME. I will visit the forums every so often (as long as I have internet possibilities) to see if something new is emerging, but I am trying to look at the bright side: the days of the FM tactician are almost over...

[SSJ3-BROLLY]

I've been a global manager as far as FM2007 and i've always kept a keen eye on this thread, some of my tactics are pretty similar to the ones you got here with a few tweaks. I went about trying them out on FM2010 (It wasn't easy creating them with present bugs, but i did manage to get there in the end) Let's just say i'm more than pleased with what i'm seeing

[TheBetterHalf]

May I ask what these bug that you are referring to are ? ( is it the problems with ticking some boxes like "hub" and "rmp" )

Edit:clarification

[Loversleaper]

May I ask what these bug that you are referring to are ? ( is it the problems with ticking some boxes etc, or something more major ? )

There are quite a few, but I am always a little reserved with rushing my conclusions because usually problems have to be looked at over a longer periode of time so it might be too early after the demo release just yet. The minor ones don't really have a big impact but I am concerned about the following (if any one else has seen these things please feel free to add your imput):

Tactic Instructions Resetting

The Roaming Bug, where when you give it to one player and 4-5 other team players automatically adapt this setting

Stats and Statistics, there is simply flaws in all the stats making it incredible difficult to see the 'true' effect in the ME (anyone noticed the tackling procentages?)

Settings not Visual in the ME, for example timewasting has almost no effect so I am assuming that since this slider has not been fine tuned then it is conceivable that the other sliders will be effected due to the 'knock on effects'

I haven't played that long into the game so I haven't been able to verify some of the other major bugs, but will definately look more closely as soon as the FM10 is released. These mentioned bugs are really holding me back, I could make some tactics with the few tools that we do have but it will be more 'stone-age-ish' and we will for sure have to adjust things after a patch or two...

[rich ruzzian]

If you mean for FM10 then I will have to disappoint you. I have tried to re-create some of these tactics (and some of my own personal ones) but have simply had to give up. There are so many bugs in the tactic screen that I simply couldn't create a single tactic, after many attempts I finally realised that there was no other option but to wait until these bugs are fixed. So my guess is that we are a couple of months away from seeing anything new (at least from my part). This time of year is also the toughest for me because I have to travel due to work for the next month or two so either way I won't have much time to look at the ME. I will visit the forums every so often (as long as I have internet possibilities) to see if something new is emerging, but I am trying to look at the bright side: the days of the FM tactician are almost over...

No for FM09 if it is possible ofcourse. the downloadlink seems to have died.

[Loversleaper]

No for FM09 if it is possible ofcourse. the downloadlink seems to have died.

Are you sure? I just downloaded them (post#2) and didn't encounter any problems so I don't know what to say. What happens when you hit the link in post#2?

[TheBetterHalf]

Tactic Instructions Resetting

The Roaming Bug, where when you give it to one player and 4-5 other team players automatically adapt this setting

Stats and Statistics, there is simply flaws in all the stats making it incredible difficult to see the 'true' effect in the ME (anyone noticed the tackling procentages?)

o...

I play without the tactic creator and make them myself and these problems, mainly the RFP and HIB boxes not staying ticked when making a tactic pregame, makes the game useless for me atm. But when i search the bug forum i cant find any report of them. Can someone link me to it so I can rest assure that someone has brought them up for Si's attention

Cheers

[Loversleaper]

I play without the tactic creator and make them myself and these problems, mainly the RFP and HIB boxes not staying ticked when making a tactic pregame, makes the game useless for me atm. But when i search the bug forum i cant find any report of them. Can someone link me to it so I can rest assure that someone has brought them up for Si's attention

Cheers

TheBetterHalf: I think these issues are under review and something is bound to happen at one point. Judging from your thread you have a good idea what to look for in the ME and are capabale of making very good tactical assumptions, so if you want you can easily post your experiences in the Bugs Forum. I couldn't say that there is a conclusive 'report' as of yet in the Bugs Forum, but people are touching on some of the issues...

[Beardeye]

I started a career game with Shrewsbury Town (FM09- i wont get FM 10 for a long time)- media prediction 17th and after 10 games I am second in league- so delighted with the flying start!! Mostly using Athletico (6) and (11)- occassionaly switching up as a few teams are already beginning to back off.

LL- would love to continue to pick your brains about these tactics if you are persisting with FM09? In particular- are you able to elaborate on how you combat different formations when using the 442 set, as you mentioned this earlier in your posts?

for example when i see a DMC getting too much time on the ball- i use OI close down always. I also change passing to "down both flanks" when using Athletico and facing a 3-5-2 formation.

Can you give a few examples of how you combat non 442 formations please??

[Loversleaper]

I started a career game with Shrewsbury Town (FM09- i wont get FM 10 for a long time)- media prediction 17th and after 10 games I am second in league- so delighted with the flying start!! Mostly using Athletico (6) and (11)- occassionaly switching up as a few teams are already beginning to back off.

LL- would love to continue to pick your brains about these tactics if you are persisting with FM09? In particular- are you able to elaborate on how you combat different formations when using the 442 set, as you mentioned this earlier in your posts?

for example when i see a DMC getting too much time on the ball- i use OI close down always. I also change passing to "down both flanks" when using Athletico and facing a 3-5-2 formation.

Can you give a few examples of how you combat non 442 formations please??

One of the reasons for the tactics being so 'basic' was that the User has the option to adjust some things as we all are well aware that one size not always fits all. I do, of course, adjust things due to circumstances and suggest that everyone gives a few things attention. Usually to get the most out of results I do change inbetween the formations at times.

If I go into details then I would have to write up a storm so I would rather explain it like so:

Against 3-5-2: I use 4-1-2-2-1 (4-3-3), although I rarely changed to 'down both flanks' as I felt it got in the way of playable options (match sequences), one of the reasons I don't implement 'Target Man' or 'Playmaker' either.

Against 4-1-2-2-1: Either the 4-2-3-1 or the 4-4-2, I removed forward runs from the full backs so that they were not trailing after the oppositions pushed up wingers.

Against 4-1-2-1-2 (diamond), the 4-2-3-1 or the 4-3-1-2: Either the 4-1-2-2-1 or the 4-1-4-1, so that the 'anchor man' (DM) is positioned closer to the opponents AMC (which is usually a good player).

Against 4-4-2: Usually I would use the 4-4-2 if you are just as good or better than opponents because you can over-power them position for position. Away though I found that the 4-3-2-1 can really overpower this formation statwise.

Against the 4-3-2-1: Also the 'anchor man' is recomended here, if their two AMCs have too much space then you can run into problems. You can get away with the same formation (4-3-2-1) as then you will be 'crowding' the middle of the field making it difficult for them to control the midfield.

Against strong/world class opponents: I usually tend to use the 4-1-2-2-1 or the 4-1-4-1 because you have extra 'cover' (the DM winning the ball or intercepting 'through balls') and the extra man in midfield helps a little on the possession stats.

Against the 5-4-1: You need to really High Pressure them, usually a Mentality of at least 16, perferably 17 or 18. Late in matches 21.

Against 5-3-2 (wingbacks): If you use pushed up wingers then their wingbacks are extremely well positioned so it is better to go with a 4-3-2-1 away or 4-4-2 at home.

On top of choosing formations it is incredibly important to have the right Mentality set-up, but it does narrow down options when you look at opposition formations as explained above. Also opponents Pitch size can have an influence with which tactic you might adopt which statistically gives you better odds of success. I might have forgotten a thing or two so please feel free to remind me...

[Loversleaper]

Because FM10 is comming out I would like to give some credits out before FM09 disappears into the gallows. I felt I had to do this because this thread would haven't been here if it were not for them.

wwfan: for introducing gamers to the Mentality aspect.

Cleon: for his visual approach on how to play the game.

Abramovic: for his discovery regarding AI settings.

Code: for opening a discussion on how to play like the AI teams.

stvndysn: for helping with the settings that made up the tactics.

isuckatfm: for his incredible detail when showing analysis of ME game instances/sequences.

Wolfsong & TheNextDiaby: for their posts on team talks and psychological warfare.

To all the people who do a lot of work with the Training Regimes: I know you people have made lives easier for a lot of us. I especially used Tug's training and I don't think I could have done it any better, I solute you.

To the other tacticians: Where would the T&T be without you all?

To everyone else not mentioned: I am grateful that we can edit posts now so that if I did forget someone then I could easily add him/her in...

The new season is going to start soon and I am sure that something is bound to happen. Even though the tactical wizard is slowly taking over the game, I would like to remind people that no matter what: the best settings that we can have are the ones created by ourselves. Like the previous versions of FM, manual instructions will and should always be better than the ones that are 'set' (default) by the AI. So I will leave this with a famous saying: "if we can't join them- beat them..."

[stvndysn]

good to see you still at this Loversleaper, sorry i wasnt around to help, got a internet radio show that takes up my spare time, but im liking the fm10 tactics and may find time to do my premier manager set of tactics for 10

[Beardeye]

One of the reasons for the tactics being so 'basic' was that the User has the option to adjust some things as we all are well aware that one size not always fits all. I do, of course, adjust things due to circumstances and suggest that everyone gives a few things attention. Usually to get the most out of results I do change inbetween the formations at times.

If I go into details then I would have to write up a storm so I would rather explain it like so:

Against 3-5-2: I use 4-1-2-2-1 (4-3-3), although I rarely changed to 'down both flanks' as I felt it got in the way of playable options (match sequences), one of the reasons I don't implement 'Target Man' or 'Playmaker' either.

Against 4-1-2-2-1: Either the 4-2-3-1 or the 4-4-2, I removed forward runs from the full backs so that they were not trailing after the oppositions pushed up wingers.

Against 4-1-2-1-2 (diamond), the 4-2-3-1 or the 4-3-1-2: Either the 4-1-2-2-1 or the 4-1-4-1, so that the 'anchor man' (DM) is positioned closer to the opponents AMC (which is usually a good player).

Against 4-4-2: Usually I would use the 4-4-2 if you are just as good or better than opponents because you can over-power them position for position. Away though I found that the 4-3-2-1 can really overpower this formation statwise.

Against the 4-3-2-1: Also the 'anchor man' is recomended here, if their two AMCs have too much space then you can run into problems. You can get away with the same formation (4-3-2-1) as then you will be 'crowding' the middle of the field making it difficult for them to control the midfield.

Against strong/world class opponents: I usually tend to use the 4-1-2-2-1 or the 4-1-4-1 because you have extra 'cover' (the DM winning the ball or intercepting 'through balls') and the extra man in midfield helps a little on the possession stats.

Against the 5-4-1: You need to really High Pressure them, usually a Mentality of at least 16, perferably 17 or 18. Late in matches 21.

Against 5-3-2 (wingbacks): If you use pushed up wingers then their wingbacks are extremely well positioned so it is better to go with a 4-3-2-1 away or 4-4-2 at home.

On top of choosing formations it is incredibly important to have the right Mentality set-up, but it does narrow down options when you look at opposition formations as explained above. Also opponents Pitch size can have an influence with which tactic you might adopt which statistically gives you better odds of success. I might have forgotten a thing or two so please feel free to remind me...

Thanks for the response- I will give this a shot once I have mastered how to pick the right mentality!

[Beardeye]

LL- I got promoted with shrewsbury in my first season with your 442 set and an average but determined squad- so first of all- thanks!!

The tactics are obviously sound and your theory on the mentality/ME mechanism seems to be correct.

At times my squad played some lovely passing football (with athletico 11 and italy, occassionally argentina) and sometimes against better squads they fell apart!! I guess its the 'overall value" calculation u have mentioned which causes this to happen- so i will need to build a better squad to get consistency.

Thanks again- i followed a similar pattern to ur MK Dons thread, which was most helpful. although i got some dry weather so tried some short passing ;0)