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  • Should loan with option to buy EVER be less desirable than a loan-only?


    nms1987
    • Public Status: Under Review Save Game: Ze Porto - Huelva 31jul29.fm Files Uploaded: Save Game
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    Submitting this here in (vain) hopes it can be fixed in FM24, but I realize it might not be able to

    Something that has bothered me in FM23 and still seems to exist in FM24 is that the AI can be happy to loan in a player from you, but if you add an option to buy they are only interested in the option being for a very small fee, and if you're not willing to budge from the larger fee, if you try to negotiate their peanuts counter offer at all, they will walk away from the loan entirely.  Given that they were already interested in first place in a loan-only arrangement I don't see how there is any downside in having the option to purchase.

    Even if they option to purchase is for higher than they would like, they don't have to accept it, and could always submit an offer at the end of the loan for a smaller amount, after they've gotten to test drive the guy for a year.  This is common IRL.  You loan a guy in, secure an option to buy for 10mil, maybe after a year you like they guy but don't like him 10mil worth, so you offer 5mil instead and see what happens.  When I am bringing a guy in on loan I always ask for a buy option if possible... often they are for amounts larger than I can afford, but hey, ya never know, and - I repeat - there is NO DOWNSIDE to having the option.  Sometimes I'll buy the guy anyway by offering a smaller amount, sometimes I take the option, sometimes I don't have any interest in keeping him permanently.

    I've uploaded the file "Ze Porto - Huelva 31jul29.fm"

    This is in Spanish La Liga 2.  To recreate this issue you can offer out midfielder Akande Afolabi, asking for Reg Starter and 100% of salary covered.  A week prior (when game was still FM23 save) I rejected a bid around maybe 300k for him.  I've currently agreed on a 900k asking price with the player.  So he has some kind of value.  After a few days Hercules in the Spanish 3rd tier will offer to take him on loan, paying 70%/80% of salary.  After a little negotiation you should be able to get them to get agree on 100%/100%/Reg Start.  A good deal for them, he'll be a standout in the 3rd tier and they only have to pay 30k of salary for a year of him.  Now, add an purchase option for 500k to these otherwise agreed loan terms.  This will cause them to drop their offer to just 90% of salary covered, and offer a measly 70k buy option with 30% sell on fee.  If you reply with the original 100/100 + 500k option a couple times they will eventually walk away.  Why would any rational actor not simply accept?

    You can also loan out goalkeeper Ivan Abad, ask for 100% salary covered and First Choice Keeper.  I just got Lusitania Lourosa (in Portugal's top league at this point) to bid for him.  After a little negotiating I have Lourosa willing to pay 100% and First Choice.  Now, if you add an option to buy for 500k (guy's value is 300k-800k, so I think IRL the option would usually be for more than current value, so maybe 1m in this case, but I'm going low to prove a point here) they'll drop the amount of salary they're willing to cover to 80/90%, change the playing time they're offering to backup, and counter offer for about 300k (though with a hefty sell on %).  If you reply with 100%, starter and 500k option to buy they'll walk away from negotiations.  So, 100% paid and starter is ok to them, and 100% paid, starter with 500k buy option is NOT ok.  How does that make sense?

    I realize this is just one game example I've attached, and loaning a low value player to very small team maybe isn't the best example, but I promise you you can easily recreate it at any level of FM.  Adding a buy option for anything other than bargain price scares off the AI and makes them walk away from a loan they were otherwise ready to take and there is no reason I can think of why it should be the case.

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    So, sorry to come back to this but I came across a similar situation in a different save (also an FM23 import if that matters) that I thought was worth noting.

    I thought in the scenario described in the original post, I was just asking for optional fees higher than the AI would prefer.  AI should still prefer that over no option at all and not scuttle a deal over it, but ok, I get it.

    But, in a different save, I got a loan offer and tried to add an option to buy.  But I made a typo and the option was for 0 euros, for a very good goal goalkeeper that had been starting in Liga Portugal and Champions League for several years, a guy with a modest salary and a transfer value over 10 million.  Adding that 0 euro optional fee and changing nothing else about the loan offer made the AI reject the loan deal they had just offered me.  AI was willing to pay me 100k+ per month in fees for this guy, but wasn't willing to even think about buying him for 0 euros at the end of it.  Madness!

     

     

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