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  • Solidarity payments not working as they should.


    Jimbokav1971
    • Public Status: Under Review Need More Examples: No
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    Hi All. 

    Apologies if this should be in the Finances section rather than Transfers, but it could be in both. 

    When a player is sold, FIFA regulations state that 5% of the transfer fee should be withheld and distributed proportionally to clubs who have trained the player between the ages of 12 and 23.

    521693d4c97912f79c831807b8fe16f2.png

    Although solidarity payments are in the game, they are not accurate at all and I can't even make sense of what rule it is that is trying to be replicated. 

    If you are aware of this and just having problems replicating it in the game then thanks very much and good luck. 

    If you are either not aware of this, or you thought it was replicated accurately, then would you mind letting me know and I will provide you with some more accurate info including relevant saves. 

    Thanks. :thup:

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    10 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

    Can you provide data of not working properly? Where is the issue? Which league, which player, which club etc?

     

    I can if asked. 

    All players at all clubs in all leagues. 

    If the SI lads tell me they think this is working correctly and want some more info then I will happily upload some saves and go into detail. I suspect that they might already be aware that there is a problem though. :thup:

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    • SI Staff

    Would be interesting to see the examples of where you think its going wrong @Jimbokav1971 because there are some elements FM can't necessarily reproduce. There is the fact that 12-16 is an area a lot of players will not have history for. Yet at the same time as a researcher I know we can set a date the player joined the club and personally I'm not aware of how this could/would or should interact with transfers.

    Ideally a couple of examples of players where you know what it should be and what the game has offered up (so youngsters who have come through at your own club for example) would help. 

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    Thanks for the response @Michael SantI'm playing a Youth Only save so I should have plenty on this sort of info to come but I will start with this player. 

    8fa4c539657b19f3e813de3e68fe9e08.png

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    The most recent transfer, (Liverpool to Milan), is the reason for this post, but this is something I have been aware of for a few issues of the game and when I did a Tier 10 Youth Only save in FM20 it was something I experienced and reported then. 

    Looking at just this 1 single transfer in isolation the rules are clear. 5% of the transfer fee should be held back and paid to the clubs who developed the player between his 12th and 23rd birthdays. 

    5% of £55M is £2,750,000 that should be shared proportionally FC Os Belenenses and Cadiz

    We know approx. when he joined our club, but because the the way you show the data, we only know a year rather than a exact date, (as was available in previous issues of the game). 

    0b9b8f054aa6f5501107904df180ad5c.png

    Hi was born on 4b6c0336fdc757ce5394ef1c6303aa9d.png so we know that for first few weeks of 2018 he would have been 11 years old and then he would have turned 12 on 23rd Jan 2018, so we know that we had him from his 12th birthday until he left on 9th Jan 2025, (2 weeks before his 19th birthday. 

    13b01baeec9d01fe8bd2bd1a79a2814d.png

    So although we're not completely accurate to the day, we know and can prove in very general terms that he was at the club for 7 years from his 12th birthday, (minus 2 weeks that we are going to ignore just to make life easy). 

    So we know that the total amount of the solidarity payments for this transfer should have been £2,750,000 and we also know that we had him at CF Os Belenenses for 7 years, (minus 2 weeks), of the 11 year period in question. That means that Cadiz have had him for the other 4 years, (plus 2 weeks). 

    We should be getting 7/11 of the 5%
    Cadiz should be getting 4/11 of the 5%

    Total Solidarity payment for £55M Transfer = £2,750,000
    CF Os Belenenses 7 years = £1,750,000
    Cadiz 4 years = £1,000,000

    So now we need to look at who got money when the deal went through. 

    4a62f86ec660777f21f84f83eba0087a.png

    Despite knowing that the total amount of the solidarity payment should be 5%, and knowing quite accurately how it should be distributed, the game has only allocated 3% of the £55M and has given it all to Cadiz and nothing at all to CF Os Belenenses. 

    I have regular saves so should be able to provide a few different saves to help you look at this and will provide more examples as and when they happen. 

    He came through the intake in Mar 2022 and I have a save dated 19th Mar 2022 that shows that. 
    He was sold on 9th Jan 2025 and I have a save dated 1st Feb 2025, (but unfortunately the messages only go back as far as 18th Jan). 
    The transfer between Liverpool and AC Milan went through on 3c50347dc2325ee4f887666ba526df13.png and I have a save dated 1st Sept 2031 however the messages only go back as far as 25th August so you can't see the transfer message. 
    I do however have a save from 1st Aug 2031 for you to try and replicate this if you want. 

    Please note that there are a number of transfer deals involving this player and we should have been owed solidarity payments for many of them. This simply is not happening. 

    His 1st move is from CF Os Belenenses to 208d031869347b9ffb8abe0c3e41c266.png

    3da27c1016a756b057ef73e80717e44f.png

    He then moves from Cadiz to 779deef58bf48fc83f45c27f4f229062.png Although we receive money from this deal, this is because of our 30% profit clause and there is no solidarity payments made to anyone. 

    d094795351de77eb8d15f34ccbe6d70d.png

    b057e318db3040242c26ebbe2e4d8eef.png

    He then moves from Beskitas to 734939eb86a1522537bda66b2fe4e80c.png This is where it gets a little bit complicated. Usually we wouldn't have got anything from this deal, but because we had a 30% profit clause with Cadiz, and they had a 20% sell-on clause with Besiktas, we effectively get 30% of their 20%, (even if the numbers don't quite add up). We do see the 1st solidarity payment though as Cadiz are given 3% and we are given nothing. 

    f99e135bb7265da2906223562e3aafb9.png

    1b4eee6e64cce3bf49fc6dbc34a480da.png

    He then moves from Liverpool to bcc8953be24671deaccb2065b416b535.png You can see once again that Cadiz receive 3% of the fee, but we get nothing. 

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    Saves uploaded. If you want the save from the month before to try and replicate any of the transfers then let me know and I will upload them. 

    6ceaa8edba4fd138477ee12adf2a4196.png

     

    Edited by Jimbokav1971
    changed 5/11 to 4/11 and 12 years to 11 years
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    So there appear at 1st glance to be 2 different problems here. 

    1. The total amount that the game is setting aside for solidarity payments is 3% rather than 5%. 

    2. All of the 3% is going to Cadiz rather than being shared with CF Os Belenenses, (with Cadiz getting 4/11 of 5% and Belenenses getting 7/11 of 5%.

    Edited by Jimbokav1971
    changed from 5/11 to 4/11
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    Although (22g) Banao (CIV) 6'3" is the best player to look at in the save because he's the best player we have produced and because he has been involved in 4 transfers, he's not the only one. 

    Something that confuses the matter in some cases, is that CF Os Belenenses is a phoenix club. They were originally in the top tier but there was a split in 2018 with a new club being formed Belenenses SAD, (who kept the existing players and the licence to play in the top tier of Portugese football), and CF Os Belenenses who continued using the name, the history and the ground, but who were relegated to the 6th tier of Portugese football. The reason I'm telling you this is because it will affect the following player. 

    Tomás Ribeiro (POR) HG came through the Academy at CF Os Belenenses and was still at the club in 2018 when the split happened. As a result his contract was held by the new club Belenenses SAD. 

    He was born on 4e167e33591dc02bbca43dbf52c62916.png so that would make him 19, (I think), when the split between the 2 clubs happened. To my mind this means that CF Os Belenenses should receive 7/11 of 5% of any future fee and Belenenses SAD should receive 5/11 of 5% of any future fee. 

    To make things easier, let's work out exactly what 7/11 of 5% is and what 5/11 of 5% is. 

    7/11 of 5% = 3.18%
    4/11 of 5% = 1.82%

    It's easier to think in those terms than it is to think of 7/11ths of 5%. 

    5fe5dadf36eef7e18b436bdb9032fb3f.png

    The only problem here is that because this is a real player rather than a Newgen, we don't have a date when he entered the CF Os Belenenses Academy. 

    Luckily, Wiki can help us, (even if we might not trust it 100% of the time). 

    81002d9e44045c8ceb14e24b7040a1f6.png

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    So now we know the following. 

    He was 10 when he joined Alta de Lisboa in 2009. so they get 1/11 of a share of 5%
    He was 13 when he joined CAC Pontinha in 2012. so they get 2/11 of a share of 5%
    He was 15 when he joined Belenenses in 2014. so they get 4/11 of a share of 5%
    He was 19 when he joined Belenenses SAD in 2018. so they get 4/11 of a share of 5%

    When Tomás Ribeiro (POR) HG was signed by Levante in 2026, there should have been the following payments. 

    Total fee was £2.8M and 5% of £2.8M is £140,000
    Alta de Lisboa £12,727.21
    CAC Pontinha £25,454.42
    Belenenses SAD £50,909.09
    CF Os Belenenses £50,909.09

    The above figures add up to £139,999.81, so I have lost 19p somewhere in my calculations, but you get the gist of it. I would personally like to see this info added to the player screen in the same way that it shows for poached Newgen players, but I appreciate that this is quite a lot of detail and if all the money has to just go to starting clubs for real players then so be it. 

    7129764e271826d51f9a220cd4e36782.png

    I've got no saves between 18/5/2026 and 18/08/2026, (it's close season), so this one is hard to track. I could provide the 18/5/2026 save to see if you could replicate the transfer through? 

    There should be no reason for this not to work for Newgens though because it should happen automatically. 

    When Tomás Ribeiro (POR) HG was signed by Al-Wahda (UAE), there should have been the following payments. 

    Total fee was £3.9M and 5% of £3.9M is £195,000
    Alta de Lisboa £17,727.27
    CAC Pontinha £35,454.55
    Belenenses SAD £70,909.09
    CF Os Belenenses £70,909.09

    The above figures add up correctly and I think the previous problem was just rounding up/down. 

    This 1 I do have a message for. (I can see it on 19/6/2028) on the 1st Jul 2028 save (which I am uploading). 

    1012d9277a9e45b70e09c30949c180f2.png

    Although this doesn't seem quite right, (by my calculations), it also doesn't seem too far out and although the 2.5% and 2% still show a missing 0.5%, that could be explained away as going to Alta de Lisboa & CAC Pontinha as mentioned above. I think this is really good actually and if all transfers looked like this I wouldn't be here. 

    Saves uploaded

    ec80ebed3b5b487fb23139a7b116de70.png

    I'm also going to try and holiday from the 18.05.2026 for you to see if I can replicate the 1st transfer. 

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    (22c) Caneira (POR) DLF is another product of our Academy under my tenure and as he has been involved in 3 transfers it will be interesting to track how these worked. 

    af7bc7ac12eef392f1d6b570dc8ab40c.png

    The 1st transfer was in Jul 2025. 

    1d082057f536b01f37c6f6a30090b931.png

    b0c337bf09c15c0862786b26269774f6.png

    The 2nd transfer was in Jun 2029. We got 25% of this deal, but we should have got some as part of a solidarity payment too. 

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    The 3rd transfer was in Nov 2030. Deportivo Alaves get a 2% solidarity payment, but we get nothing. We get a share of the deal, but only because of our previous clause. We get nothing by way of a solidarity payment. 

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    Saves uploaded

    69932254278c57e4b194fd6ed97be81c.png

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    I'm going to run a little test. 

    The in game date is currently 13th Dec 2031 and the January window will shortly open. I'm going to save on the day that the window opens and then I'm going to buy, (if I can), a number of players who are products of our Academy. Some will be real players and some will be Newgens. Then I'm going to show you what Solidarity payments we get, (if any). 

    Then I can just re-load and go back to my earlier save to continue playing. 

    Better than that, (because I didn't want to confuse the issue by us having to pay ourselves Solidarity payments), I have added a new manager, taken over at Porto and Porto will be buying a number of our Academy products, (both real players and Newgens), and we will see what happens. 

    While I have been waiting for the deals to go through, a deal with a player leaving Porto, (nothing to do with Belenenses), has gone through and it's interesting to look at it in terms of the Solidarity payments. 

    450150f5374dbf1d493578848a78cd95.png

    Solidarity payments have been paid to Diamond FC, Huesca & FC Utrecht. 

    Now let's look at his history. 

    9b36c52920081aee493affb136de696c.png
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    What's interesting here is that Arsenal don't get a solidarity payment for him. I can understand that the 3 Dutch loan clubs don't get a fee, (because this is a a solidarity payment rather than training compensation), but why don't Arsenal get anything for him when he was owned by them from 2016/17 all the way through to 2021/22? Now it could be that they don't get anything for him because he was always out on loan, but if the loan clubs aren't responsible for his development, (they get nothing), then surely Arsenal should? 

    Much more basic than that though is the 1st Nigerian club on the list. Why don't ASJ Academy get anything? :confused:

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    Transfer 1

    I was about to say that this is a real player as it was a player I inherited at the start of the game, but he is in fact a generated player who was produced to bulk the squad out. There were no solidarity payments made to anyone. 

    c04117857eb0cda824691aa3ba853d82.png

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    Transfer 2.

    There is no compensation paid here to anyone. He's still only 22 years old. I wonder if this is because he's still under 23 so his U23 history is still being compiled so it hasn't triggered yet? 

    f132d905f6ff3867d7af6b4abd82515c.png

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    Transfer 3

    This is a real player. There are no solidarity payments made at all. 

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    Transfer 4.

    This is a real player. There are no solidarity payments made at all. 

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    Transfer 5

    This is a real player. There are no solidarity payments made at all. 

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    Transfer 6.

    There is compensation paid here, (and to us), but it's interesting to note that there is a 10 year gap in his history while at the Romanian club. 

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    Save uploaded. I'll be completely honest with you. I can't make head nor tail of this. I can't even offer suggestions as to what might be happening. There appears to be no pattern that I can see. It's the 15th Jan 2032 save that you want for this. 

    17128dc6fb9dc6465eaf0906433874e3.png

    Something else that I should add is that it has been pointed out to me that the 11 years that are taken into consideration are not all given equal rating. 

    This is from the Irish FA website. 

    https://www.fai.ie/domestic/governance/fifa-solidarity-and-compensation-payments

    37dff6faaa625b69eeb27c3eca08c903.png

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    Hi @Michael Santand anyone else looking at this. 

    I have all the products of the Academy on a shortlist, so when they are sold I get a message. 

    This is the most recent one. 

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    There are a few things to consider here. 

    • The fee is £1.6M and 5% of £1.6M is £80,000. Why is only 3.5% being allocated? 
    • Ignoring how much was allocated, why did we only get 1% when we had him from 2021 to 2024 (3 years)?
    • Why did Western Sydney Wanderers not get anything at all, (they had him from 2019 to 2021 (2 years)?
    • Blacktown only got 1% for him, but they would have had him before he came through the intake as a Junior? 
    • Trofense somehow got 1.5% for him, 2024 to 2028 (4 years)?

    Saves uploaded

    5e507e225986f439303e1c58342997da.png

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    This player was sold in Jan 2033 for £15M. 5% of £15M is £750,000 that should have been paid out. 

    05d9a4b24a6d44ab926686ab64127dcf.png

    We had him from 2021 until Feb 2028, but we got nothing. 

    46453d03d4ccadd1e3fca9b59af14834.png

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    a8b521c3f8e8345e17ddb2692424b652.png

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    This player was sold in Aug 2034 for £7.75M rising to £9.25M. 5% of £7.75M is £387,500 that should have been paid out. 

    Juve got 2.5% (£193,000). He joined them in 2027 (aged 19) and stayed with them until 2032 (aged 24)

    He joined us in 2021 (aged 13), and stayed with us until 2027 (aged 19). We get absolutely nothing. 

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