Just started with nuneaton in england

in the bsn. can some one help me and suggest to me the best tactics to get outta this elague like. go throuhg each thing like fluid or ridig.

attacking or counter

etc etc thank you in advance

Warning to the TT community - this fella is driving posters and mods nuts in GQ with his constant inanity and 7 -year-old language. Don't invest too much time and proceed with caution.

grow up phn i just want some help

grow up phn i just want some help

abbreviation of the day

Non-league, so dont waste time trying to play like Barca, it wont happen. Organise your backline, use your midfield for transition and attack for attacking. Tried to recreate the Swiss Verou (3-3-4) system and thought the Blue Square would be a perfect training ground. The oppositions not too good and would be ideal fodder for the challenge. Will post a few screenies in a second, assuming this thread isn't closed. The key concepts are as follows:

Highest defensive line

Closing down whole pitch

Focus passing down flanks

Team set to wide: (with outside centrehalves and mid-centres set to move into channels and roam from position)

2 centre forwards set to deep-lying forward

wide strikers are defensive forwards

Team mentality is slowish normal tempo, mixed/direct passing

Note, move into channels for centrehalves doesnt actually translate into just that! Can use a RB-DC-LB combo, but will need a defensive mid infront to help out. Remember, its the Blue Square...**** poor quality! Just get the ball forward asap and have as many goal hangers as possible! Lol!

Guv, you need to right players for that. The defence need to be quick AND have good mental attributes - which they don't tend to have at that level. Wide and closing down requires stamina (Admittedly partially offset by the high Dline) - again at this level they don't tend to have it, plus a small squad is vulnerable to injuries and fatigue. I'd say you could do well over a few games, but a season's campaign would kill you unless you have a well above average squad.

The FOUR defensive forwards looks intriguing - almost an exploit of it works, since whoever does that in real life?

Rappan's Swiss Verou mon frere! Going back a few years, but worked way back when. The only problem with the ME is its failure to recognise a striker as anything other than a striker. It's very difficult to the desired effect at a higher level, but contrary to your argument, its easier to employ at low league standards. Though the wide strikers dont seem to be dropping back as much as one would like, going forward, its a sight for sore eyes. Just get 2 pacey wide men and a couple galloots in the centre and Bob's your uncle. Derek Carcary, no ability, but raw pace has set the friendlies vs. Blue Square teams on fire!

It does sound intriguing. I don't have the personnel for it, but maybe in a future save.

Rappan's Swiss Verou mon frere! Going back a heck of a lot of years' date=' but worked way back when. The only problem with the ME is its failure to recognise a striker as anything other than a striker. It's very difficult to the desired effect at a higher level, but contrary to your argument, its easier to employ at low league standards. Though the wide strikers dont seem to be dropping back as much as one would like, going forward, its a sight for sore eyes. Just get 2 pacey wide men and a couple galloots in the centre and Bob's your uncle. Derek Carcary, no ability, but raw pace has set the friendlies vs. Blue Square teams on fire![/quote']

corrected

Seriously, today I cannot see how this should work. On top of that Andy is right saying that probably at this level your players will not be good enough to employ this tactic, starting with the most basic problem that they will be lacking physically. If you want to give any such tactic a run out, I'd suggest trying at a very big club first.

im in relegation zone

Understandable concerns, but you're undervaluing the good old 20 workrate, 20 teamwork, or thereabouts. The defensive frontline puts alot of pressure on the ball and does serve its purpose. Have tinkered with the defensive settings for the back 3 and midfield. In the classic Verou, they dropped deep, forming a "bolt" which locked down the defensive third. So, a couple paradoxs in place i.e high defensive line, yet closing down lowest own-half! The central midfielder, or centrehalf in Rappan's Verou is set to closing down own area, so he drops real deep, with the 2 outer mids, closing down own-half....(Exhaustive!). Seems to have reduced the opposition to more longshots. No CCCs in past 3 games! The bolt indeed, locking the door shut!

the good old 20 workrate, 20 teamwork, or thereabouts

I'm sure anyone who has lower league players with these attributes doesn't undervalue them at all! But how many of us have a lower league squad like that? My semi-pro forwards must be pie-loving museum archivists in their real jobs because 'workrate' and 'teamwork' are not their forte. I think the OP is looking for tactics with average English numpties.

I'm sure anyone who has lower league players with these attributes doesn't undervalue them at all! But how many of us have a lower league squad like that? My semi-pro forwards must be pie-loving museum archivists in their real jobs because 'workrate' and 'teamwork' are not their forte. I think the OP is looking for tactics with average English numpties.

Still there's no reason to have a go at Dave C

But I love the comparison

Still there's no reason to have a go at Dave C

But I love the comparison

Heh, forgot about him :o

Anyway, the very unaverage numpty has abandoned Nuneaton.

How did he start as Nuneaton? They're one of my favourite teams (as grandad used to play for them) and they're not in the BSP now. Maybe he used an editor. So anyway, after a hiatus from the game of some years I picked up the latest version and have begun life as Blyth Spartans. I must say that I am enjoying FM a lot so far - we won the league on goal difference on the last day of the season, having kept nine clean sheets in the last ten league games of the season and edging out the leading side (Fleetwood) 1 - 0 in the penultimate match. It's been pretty nail-biting and realistic stuff so far.

I generally play a 4-1-2-1-2 with direct passing, quite high line, man-marking, playing offsides, quickish tempo, pretty rigid system, defensive CB, supportive FBs, a hard-ass tackling DM behind 2 skillful and creative CM and a playmaking AM in the hole behind two strikers. I drop the line back and don't play offsides but counter-attack when away from home. A major help has been picking up some superb bargains such as Andre Blackman, Simon Lakeland, Aaron Moses-Garvey, Jason Norville to name but a few (check them out if starting at the bottom).

However, my tactics feel far from optimal and I believe the team are giving the ball away a fair bit and that crosses are negligible. Much tweaking required before the new season starts.

well if im being honest you should put the things to this(will get you best results, believe me I beat united with nuneaton using this):

Very Fluid

Contain

Shorter

More Expressive

More Aggresive

Zonal

Float Crosses

Roam from Position

Seriously you will win every match with this set up

well if im being honest you should put the things to this(will get you best results, believe me I beat united with nuneaton using this):

Very Fluid

Contain

Shorter

More Expressive

More Aggresive

Zonal

Float Crosses

Roam from Position

Seriously you will win every match with this set up

Just afraid he won't be able to read this advice anymore...

Just afraid he won't be able to read this advice anymore...

Pity - these 2 deserve each other!!

Yeah, just read this guys other post for which he got infracted. Quite a bunch of wind-ups on here recently.

@ Guv: Tell us how you get on with creating the Verrou

Most of my games these days, tend to begin in the lower leagues of one country or another. I think it's because I get more fun out of making a chunk of gold out of something that started out as a bit of tin!

Yes, this is T&TT and yes, there are some simple tactics that can help you with poor quality players. Thing is though, I tend to make a tactic, then build my team around it. This usually involved changing most, if not all, of my playing staff. I then becomes much more a case of finding the right players to suit my tactics, rather than the tactic itself in particular.

I've been wanting to write a "new and improved" heathxxx management approach (lower league edition) for FM10. Sadly I've not had the time to do it yet.

I have been giving it some detailed thought though. It's all in my head and just needs putting down on paper. Funnily enough, I think about it a lot when I'm driving to different jobs here in southern Spain... perhaps I should buy a dictaphone

Yeah, just read this guys other post for which he got infracted. Quite a bunch of wind-ups on here recently.

Sadly, if he returns from his forum "holiday" with the same frame of mind, he'll be permanently banned.

The Verou is coming along very slowly. Not getting the desired effect just yet. The front 4 seem to be redundant defensively and are bypassed to easily with the longball. Their aim in actuality was to halt the progress of the counterattack, allowing the defensive hub to drop deep and shield the area. Its hard to recreate this in FM. A defensive mentality doesnt mean the player defends more, rather it defines their starting position on the field. A more defensive forward is closer to the midfield and further from the oppositions backline. Therefore, to achieve the desired closing down of the defence, one has to assign an attacking mentality to the front four. The downside is, this moves them further from our midfield. A normal mentality has helped here. By varying the mentality around normal (defensive norm - attacking norm), one can get better purchase from the forwards in defence.

...As expected, the centralised defensive 6 (3 cbs and 3 mcs) are being exposed on the flanks. Have toyed with many a motif to address this. Playing with a more global attacking mentality, pushes the players further up the pitch, along with a high defensive line, has helped. Man marking is crucial. Given that most teams play a 4-4-2, marking the wingers seems to be reduce the number of attempts on our goal. Have tried using my wide strikers to mark the oppositions wingers, only worked half-decently when playing on a defensive mentality. However, this was not the strategy of the original Verou. As you can see, lots of conundrums arising, it makes or an interest, though frustrating project. Will post some screenies with the results achieved with the variouos different strategies later today.

Have you tried using your front four to put pressure on the oppo back four? If my front line have the energy, I often have them close down fullbacks and central defenders, or tight mark a DC if my striker is quicker. By pinning them down they don't have time to make nice passes into midfield and your midfielders can be more effective. Yer men are defensive forwards - defend from the front!

That was the premise of the front 4 in the Verou. Close down the opposition, put pressure on the ball to allow the defensive 6 to retreat back to their own half and defend. The problem with the ME is in its failure to recognise the defensive forward. Although it allows for such a role in the tactisc creator, it doesnt actually execute this role very well. Watch the game in full and one will find that the forwards are often in advance of the ball and therefore taken ou of the defensive game! The back arrows dont translate into a defensive position when not in position, rather define a players starting position when the team is in possession! Again, another flaw in the ME. Will keep plugging away at it.

Please excuse my ignorance, but did the Verrou really have the 4 forwards only on pressing and the rest sitting back?

By modern standards this should fail as it just leaves too big gaps right in the back of the forwards. Thus I would actually expect FM to not allow it to work well.

Please excuse my ignorance, but did the Verrou really have the 4 forwards only on pressing and the rest sitting back?

By modern standards this should fail as it just leaves too big gaps right in the back of the forwards. Thus I would actually expect FM to not allow it to work well.

This explains it;

Also known as the Swiss bolt formation, the verrou is a system of play that requires disciplined and highly-fit players who can afford to run hard and long throughout the entire game and can act in both offensive and defensive roles. Generally played with 3 defenders, 3 midfielders and 4 forwards, the entire team advanced on attack. Even the defence was shifted up to the centre of the field, in the neutral third of the pitch. But the special feature of the verrou was the defence.

On loss of the ball, all ten outfield players retreated, and their functions were as follows: the four forwards would harass the opposing attackers, slowing the attack down and giving time for the rest of the team to move back into place. The midfield "line" shifted further back, allowing the centre-half to take the position of the centre-back. The defense retreated to just outside the penalty area, and the former centre-back now became the deep centre-back, the player behind all the rest save the goalkeeper. This feature of the verrou, the deep centre-back, will be seen later on in another system.

Advice on the verrou:Highly fit, disciplined players are required, as stated above, along with good teamwork and good sense of positioning. This is not a very easy formation to use, because of the fitness and discipline required.

Au contraire. It might appear riddled with flaws on first glance, but in effect, worked well. The key feature was indeed the 'screwing of the bolt', when in retreat, a transformation that would draw applause from Optimus Prime.

The retreating wide strikers press the fullbacks, curtailing their advances.

The centre-forward drop deep to pressurize the midfield (Defensive Forwards in FM)

The centre-mid, formerly known as 'centre-half', drops to centreback

The flanking centre-halves (other 2 centre-mids) drop into the anchoring position

The outermost centrebacks move into the channels

And 'la piece du resistance', the central centreback drops deep into a sweeping position forming the last line of defence and in effect, screwing the bolt tight!

It required a huge amount of effort, energy and teamsmanship, but reaped its rewards vs. Those Typical Germans! Lol! In the days of side arrows and with ball/without ball, this formation was a Leviathan! The ME has since cut off its nose to spite its face. By trying to make the game less algorithmic, they've made it less of a lemming i.e. adherent to instruction and more of a maverick! The centrehalves in a back 3 will not 'move into channels' regardless of whether thebox is ticked and preferred moves trained. The centre-mid, will not drop deep into the centreback position despite having closing down set to own area and a back arrow. The defensive forwards do not drop deep to pressurize the midfield when not in possession, more often than standing aloof at the top of the screen doing nothing. The wide-strikers, when set to man-mark the opposing fullbacks are often found chitter-chatting with the centre-forwards and seldom follow the movement of their man beyond the opponents own area.

...Still toying with the idea, but its intricacies are fast revealing the rigidity of the ME as far as tactics are concerned.

One's penchant for the classical tactical view has made recreating the Swiss Verou, even harder. The new tactical frame seems to take away alot of the autonomy from the tactician. That said, it seems to be easier to find the desired balance with the new frame than the old. So, the solution...create the tactic in the new and the switch to Classic just before releasing it into the wild.

...Enough with the jibber-jabber, now to the meat of the discussion. How is the Verou coming along? So, so. Balance remains the rubix cube that demands solution. Switching the defence to a normal mentality, with the centreback come sweeper, being set to a more defensive-normal, seems to have the desired effect. The centrehalves engage the advancing forwards, whilst the sweeper waits patiently with brush in hand.

The midfield and frontline are equations of their own. The forward arrows insist the trio push forward and support the attack on the front-foot. Again, however the weakness of the ME is exposed. Forward arrows, quite like mentality, define a players starting position when the team is in possession of the ball. The more attacking a mentality, the further upfield the individual. This is best demonstrated by toying with the team styles from 'contain - very fluid' on the tactics creator. The same applies to individual mentalities. Herein lies the problem. With the defence in possession, the midfield trio begin their surge forward. The options available to the centrehalves, as far as passes are concerned are therefore restricted, unless they 'hit and hope'. Balancing the forward arrows with a defensive/normal mentality seems to draw the midfielder deeper. A high defensive line was a must to further close this gap.

...The front four remains the enigma code in need of a Professor Langdon. Using the same ideals as above, i.e. mentality, normal seemed to allow for greater contribution on the back-foot. Greater, but not great.

Wont delve into much more detail, suffice to say the results will prove the litmus test. Interestingly however, the wide areas dont seem to be so vulnerable. The outer midfielders and centrebacks are set to 'move into channels' and whether by choice or chance, have done so in the past few friendlies. Shock, horror! Still a long way from a upload, but a work in progress without doubt. Was thinking about creating a thread for the project, or just carry on posting here?

Ok. Having watched the Damned United for the umpteenth time, the chance to combine the thuggery of Don Revy with the class of Clough, in Rappan's 3-3-4 was all too appealing. The Blue Square Game remains the mainstay of this project, but a few clicks with the Damned United wouldn't do no harm. Same principles as above really. Some interesting developments. As always, begin the pre-season with a few easier fixtures. Being on the forntfoot more often means more distance run and puts the players through the paces, as pre-season should.

Offensively, the front 4 with supporting midfielders and high defensive line, congesting play in the opposition's half, allows for ample opportunities on goal and fast recycling of possession. The defensive shape is where the discourse finds its niche. Getting the players to fall back in unison, getting the forwards to pressurise the midfielders and hold up play, allowing for the defensive retreat to turn and face what shall cometh, is the deserved effect. Though one cannot profess to having reached this grail, the defensive displays have been encouraging. As the opposition has got better, the shape has yet to fall apart.

Farsley FC, hardly Barca, so tried to balance the scales a little by fielding an u-18 side with the odd ressie here and there.

Note the advanced, wide position of the left-sided central defender. Having moved into the channels (unbelievable), he is able to exploit the space in front and initiate a team attack. The options for the pass are plentiful. The left-sided cent mid has moved out wide to offer the short option, with the forward left available for a more direct pass. The forward-right, though not pictured (orange arrow) is afforded room with a view, as the opposition shuffle across to deal with the attack down the left. With the wide forwards on direct passing, and the FR cutting inside, theres a genuine goal threat.

Perhaps more importantly, the team is well set-up to prevent a counter-attack. As circled, the defensive centre-forward is stationed close to the opposition's defensivbe mid, to apply pressure if possession is lost. The high defensive line is in place and the potential space for a counter-attack is covered.

The panache of the Verou was in its ability to bolt the backdoor shut. This game showed signs that the strategy was getting there.

Again the opposition are well marked, most importantly though, the central midfielder (centrehalf of old) is retreating (blue arrow) to position himself amongst the centrebacks. The defensive forward has his sights on the central midfielder and the fullbacks have been pinned back. The only option for the attacker was to attempt the longshot, or try something of Messi proportions. The former was the chosen mode of action, the shot was charged down, possession gained and another attack launched.

2nd game in. Stronger opposition, away from home.

Again the fullbacks are pegged back and the defensive forwards retreat to offer bodies in midfield. The stopper (Bromby) has stepped up to block off the path of the adjoining forwards. The centreback (Michalik) steps up to meet the ball, whilst the other retreats to take up the sweeper position. The biggest smile of all came at the sight of the centre-mid scurrying back to fall in line with Michalik.

The finish line remains a hope in the distant, but there have been some encouraging signs. Tougher challenges await, lets see if the bolt shuts when a more potent frontline comes knocking.

4 games in, no goals conceded. Interestingly, very few scored! Just a paultry 6, however no shortage of chances created during matches. 15 within the first 28 minutes vs. Tranmere, including 4 clearcut chances, yet only 1 goal...a header from a corner! Game finished 1-nil! Lol!

The defensive shape seems to work well at League 1 level and offers hope for the universal use of this system. The wide forwards are pegging back their fullbacks and the midfield and outside-centrebacks seem to cover the wings between them. That said, the vulnerability vs. the more attack-minded fullback was evident vs. Wigan in the Carling Cup. Figueroa was flying, Nzogbia was coming inside and this caused all sorts of problems. Game finished 4-2 in favour of the Latics, however, did create more chances (15 vs 8, 4 of which were clear-cuts and only 1 long shot).

Still very much a work in progress! Going to review the defensive allignment to try and protect the wide areas a little more. Perhaps a DL-DC-DR setup? Obviously cause for concern is the solitary centrehalf vs. 2 forwards. Possible solutions: Dropping the mentality of the midfield centrehalf (Michael Doyle in the above line-up) and playing narrow as possible.

Screenies to come! And Blue Square test,as was the purpose of this thread to follow!

LU-Beckford, or rather LU-BKFD, in keeping with the text message abberviations (Lol!), hows Nuneaton going?

Beckford, are you still toying with Nuneaton?

He's banned again... and for good as it seems.

Beckford' date=' are you still toying with Nuneaton?[/quote']

He quit that save the next day.

He's also banned from the forums