is this fair or not??? Structured comments please

Ive just been releived of my manchester city post

The reason: I didnt win every cup available in the game

Problem: you would never get expected to do that in real life!

Is this a problem SI need to look at because i have won the premiership twice, champions league once, charity shield once and WORLD CLUB CUP once.... but the expectations were either reach final or win the cup with everything... either do this or we dont offer you a contract, impossible

what are your comments on this?

sorry i didnt know where to post this but its a discussion so i posted it here

Ive just been releived of my manchester city post

The reason: I didnt win every cup available in the game

Problem: you would never get expected to do that in real life!

Is this a problem SI need to look at because i have won the premiership twice, champions league once, charity shield once and WORLD CLUB CUP once.... but the expectations were either reach final or win the cup with everything... either do this or we dont offer you a contract, impossible

what are your comments on this?

sorry i didnt know where to post this but its a discussion so i posted it here

Are you using 8.0.2? Don't know if it's still an issue on the new patch as I haven't played on it yet, but if you are then it's something SI certainly should have fixed for 8.0.2

Maybe you should post this in the bugs forum with a saved game for SI to look at.

I had something similar happen (in version 8.02)....

I had won promotion to the premier league and the board expects me to get at top half finish. I am 6 rounds away from completing the season when I get fired and I am just 3 places below a top half finish. Seems a bit harsh to me but your example is certainly more extreme.

Perhaps you didn't part the Red Sea or Feed the Four Thousand?

Well you are at Man City, they aren't allowed to be happy. Yes, this whole confidence thing is a complete write off, I'm being blamed for my teams poor performance in the league cup despite not being in charge for any of the games.

Without getting into any debate as far as I am aware this is still an issues with 8.02 patch.

It certainly makes the idea of longevity with a club nigh on impossible and the Board ratchet up their expectations each season.

If this is not so I stand corrected but I have seen nothing to the contrary to suggest this part of the game is fixed?

Seems pretty realistic to me.

Manchester City are notorious for their short sighted managerial decisions and willingness to fire managers hastily.

Watch out Sven!!

this is a clan game, ive in the top 4 since season 2 but this game started in 8.0.0 which doesnt confirm the 8.0.2 suspicions unfortunately

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CookieColeman:

Perhaps you didn't part the Red Sea or Feed the Four Thousand? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah... The old "Parting the seas" problem again.

This was brought up (on a comedy level) the other day and I feel it's certainly an idea SI should look into.

For posterity and what-have-you.

as celtic you face the same problem with the 3 domestic competitions every season. I know that realistically Celtic should be there or there abouts in every competition every season but for the board to moan because you lost in the final is stupid

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coolsvil:

Ive just been releived of my manchester city post

The reason: I didnt win every cup available in the game

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The REAL reason:

You failed to condemn the Thai military junta and call for an immediate return to corrupt democracy

CMIIW I'm pretty sure you could select the season expectations at the beginning of each season.

So just set your set your season expectations low to avoid being sacked.

Right, the first thing we need to know is what you set your start of season expectations to be?

Did you leave them as the boards minimum expectations, or did you increase them in order to get more money?

If you left them as they were then this is definitely a problem. Man City, and most other teams, would not sack a manger who has been as successful as you just because they didn't win everything available.

However, if you raised the season expectations yourself and then didn't meet them I don't see a problem. It's the price you pay for saying you'll do much better than actually can.

From my experience you can only raise expectation for league position not for cup results... But league expectation are funny aswell. I've started the game with Karlsruhe and initial goal was to try to avoid relegation and transfer budget for it was 100.000€...

Just for fun I tried to selest the goal "Winner" to see what would happen with my transfer budged - in increased to 150.000€. So the board expects to form a Bundesliga winning squad with additional 50.000€... that just ridiculous.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BayernMB:

From my experience you can only raise expectation for league position not for cup results... But league expectation are funny aswell. I've started the game with Karlsruhe and initial goal was to try to avoid relegation and transfer budget for it was 100.000€...

Just for fun I tried to selest the goal "Winner" to see what would happen with my transfer budged - in increased to 150.000€. So the board expects to form a Bundesliga winning squad with additional 50.000€... that just ridiculous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you expect to form a Budesliga winning squad. The board have told you they only have 150,00E. They can't magically create cash to match your expectations if the club does not have it or they are not willing to spend it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

Right, the first thing we need to know is what you set your start of season expectations to be?

Did you leave them as the boards minimum expectations, or did you increase them in order to get more money?

If you left them as they were then this is definitely a problem. Man City, and most other teams, would not sack a manger who has been as successful as you just because they didn't win everything available.

However, if you raised the season expectations yourself and then didn't meet them I don't see a problem. It's the price you pay for saying you'll do much better than actually can. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

After winning the champions league and premiership in 1 season the lowest i could put is challenge for the premiership which i did, its either that or put winner but i know myself thats not an easy task, so i can tell you we have a problem i wouldnt need to put higher because i was already rich anyway and had a massive squad full of talent

here was the expectations and what i met:

Premiership: Challenger: Met with 2nd place

Champs League: Final: Didnt meet after getting real madrid who knocked me out with 1 away goal

Charity shield: Win: Winner

World Club Cup: Win: Winner

Euro Super Cup: Win: Runner Up

League Cup: Final: Didnt meet after getting yet again difficult oposition early on

FA Cup: Final: Didnt meet as i got sunderland in the quarters and i couldnt beat them, they are good now as they got into champions league.

To be honest it was only the league cup were i failed miserably, but how you are expected to either reach final or win everything there i dont know, its man city we are talking about here not barcelona, id only won the prem twice and the champions league once before those expectations so i dont get why they are so high, its not as if i cleaned out every team in every competition every year

Premiership Positions season 1 - 6

Season 1 - 6th

Season 2 - 3rd

Season 3 - 1st

Season 4 - 3rd

Season 5 - 1st

Season 6 - 2nd

Cup finals not won: 4

Prem titles - 2

Champ L titles - 1

WCC titles - 1

Charity S titles - 1

thats all the info from my 6 seasons at man city

thats everything i can tell you

We all know and it's sad that if you only do poorly in just 1 season, despite making huge success for decades, you can be booted out. From what you've posted, I'd imagine that you'd need at least one of the 4 trophies (not a 1 match win cup or WCC) to survive in that position.

Regardless of your patch version 8.0.1 or 8.0.2, it'd turn out the same since the Confidence feature was barely improved in 8.0.2. It only deals with on loan player confidence.

There are already a few long thread discussing about Confidence was not improved. Just hope that there'll be a big leap on that in 09.

I love this forum!

Man City win the Prem, Champions League and the World Cup Championship.......and it's the SACKING thats unrealistic

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IbrahimAliMaher:

Well you are at Man City, they aren't allowed to be happy. Yes, this whole confidence thing is a complete write off, I'm being blamed for my teams poor performance in the league cup despite not being in charge for any of the games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe I won the FA cup with Forest in the 2nd season but didnt get a new contract because I hadn't won the Championship! (finished 2nd)

Confidence/contract extensions are really flawed.

I took over a Man Utd team that hadn't won anything at all in a decade. My first two year contract objective was an unrealistic request to win the league (my first team had several players better suited to the Championship). We came second the first season, winning the FA Cup, and third the season after, winning nothing. I expected my contract would expire and I'd be off. But no, I got a second contract with the same objectives.

The third season I won the league and FA Cup, leaving me confident of an extenion after thr fourth. The day I won the league that season, my performance confidence declined from "satisfied" to "concerned". Maybe coming second would've been better. In the cups, we exceeded the FA Cup expectations, fell one level short in the Champion's League, two levels short in the League Cup (playing the reserves/kids) and lost the Community Shield (which seemed to upset the board more than anything).

And, sure enough, I didn't get an extention.

In reality:

- I would've been given an extention.

- The board would normally be happy with a league win, as long as you didn't disgrace the club in the other tournaments.

- The board would accept that two league defeats in an entire season bodes very well for the future.

- The board would recognise our 30 place rise in the European rankings over that time.

- The board would accept the Community Shield as a glorified friendly.

- The board would generally allow a weakened League Cup team given the fixture congestion with the other priority competitions.

- The board would balance expectations between the competitions sensibly rather that what appears to be close to equally.

- The board would recognise the club's increased financial success and increased off field potential.

- Even if I was still sacked, they wouldn't replace me with a manager who hadn't worked since almost relegation Tottenham three years ago.

- After ten years without a trophy, a board would recognise that two leagues, a cup, a second place finish, a lost cup final and a couple of lost semi-finals would be a good total over the course of short of four whole seasons.

From what I've read, this problem has persisted since the original version of FM08. Yet it's the game's biggest problem. I'd spent many seasons working my way up from Ilkeston in the BSN via other clubs (including the odd set back) to get a crack at a big club and the confidence issue ensured that it was a waste of time.

And with that in mind, why bother with the game? Whether you start with a big club or take a Blue Square team into Europe, you're eventually going to get to the stage where the board expectations are so huge that you'll be forced out. In reality the turnover of football managers is both huge and fast, but few clubs are going to force out someone who has masterminded their success.

And to answer the original question; no, it wasn't fair in your case either.

As far as I recall, the latest patch only altered expectations for loan signings. Bizarre, as this was the least pressing issue in the entire confidence part of the game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coolsvil:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

Right, the first thing we need to know is what you set your start of season expectations to be?

Did you leave them as the boards minimum expectations, or did you increase them in order to get more money?

If you left them as they were then this is definitely a problem. Man City, and most other teams, would not sack a manger who has been as successful as you just because they didn't win everything available.

However, if you raised the season expectations yourself and then didn't meet them I don't see a problem. It's the price you pay for saying you'll do much better than actually can. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

After winning the champions league and premiership in 1 season the lowest i could put is challenge for the premiership which i did, its either that or put winner but i know myself thats not an easy task, so i can tell you we have a problem i wouldnt need to put higher because i was already rich anyway and had a massive squad full of talent

here was the expectations and what i met:

Premiership: Challenger: Met with 2nd place

Champs League: Final: Didnt meet after getting real madrid who knocked me out with 1 away goal

Charity shield: Win: Winner

World Club Cup: Win: Winner

Euro Super Cup: Win: Runner Up

League Cup: Final: Didnt meet after getting yet again difficult oposition early on

FA Cup: Final: Didnt meet as i got sunderland in the quarters and i couldnt beat them, they are good now as they got into champions league.

To be honest it was only the league cup were i failed miserably, but how you are expected to either reach final or win everything there i dont know, its man city we are talking about here not barcelona, id only won the prem twice and the champions league once before those expectations so i dont get why they are so high, its not as if i cleaned out every team in every competition every year

Premiership Positions season 1 - 6

Season 1 - 6th

Season 2 - 3rd

Season 3 - 1st

Season 4 - 3rd

Season 5 - 1st

Season 6 - 2nd

Cup finals not won: 4

Prem titles - 2

Champ L titles - 1

WCC titles - 1

Charity S titles - 1

thats all the info from my 6 seasons at man city

thats everything i can tell you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this case I agree with you that the confidence/expectations in this instance are very flawed.

It certainly not realistic that a manager of a club like Man City would be sacked after bringing the club such success, and it's certainly not fun.

I'm loving my Gateshead game. I'm now in 2021 and starting to break into the top 6 in the Premiership and win the odd cup. If it gets to the point where I win the prem and then slightly under-achieve the year after just to find myself sacked and losing almost 20 seasons of building I'll be very, very disappointed.

Having taken a previously unplayable team from nothing to the Premiership and turning down offers from clubs such as Man Utd my job should be pretty much secure for life, unless I massively underachieve for more than 1 season.

We'll see how it goes.

I was certain when in my second season I won nothing with Manchester United that I would be denied a contract extension. I got it, though and won the Double next season - the board is happy.

I think the board confidence is a bit better with 8.0.2 but the fans' opinion is driving me mad. We draw 2-2 with Arsenal at the Emirates in an even game and they are disappointed. We play poorly against West Ham at home yet still manage to outplay them. They snatch a draw. The fans are pleased. I'm getting insane.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by midlothian:

I was certain when in my second season I won nothing with Manchester United that I would be denied a contract extension. I got it, though and won the Double next season - the board is happy.

I think the board confidence is a bit better with 8.0.2 but the fans' opinion is driving me mad. We draw 2-2 with Arsenal at the Emirates in an even game and they are disappointed. We play poorly against West Ham at home yet still manage to outplay them. They snatch a draw. The fans are pleased. I'm getting insane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple, no one cares about west ham, but everyone hates dropping points to Arsenal.

But yeah.. poor play against west ham and draw... that's not good... Usually The fans crucify me for everything

"you lost against Chelsea in the carling cup finals, the fans are dissapointed in this and the board wishes to express that you can not allow this to happen in the future"

"The fans are disapointed with drawing against Liverpool"

"The fans are disapointed in your signing Saivet (played 2 matches)"

They are fans, they don't know better. Although I do suspect SI to have made them a little too dumb. Winning the CL got me: "The fans are pleased" I suspect the fans would be more than pleased for winning the CL in 2008 with United =/

Come on, would United fans be pleased with a home draw against West Ham? Even though we've lost our last three games against them IRL, I"d still be disappointed, very much.

And drawing 2-2 at the Emirates coming twice from behind and tuhs extending our unbeaten run to 26 league games can't be that disappointing? It's flawed, this fans' thing.

i pretty sure SI will change it, isnt only the first year of the new board confidnece system so it was bound to have flaws, id rather one bad version of it rather than just sticking to old features.

I have a slightly different issue, but it's still vexing.

I am Arsenal and have played the first two seasons. In the first season I did OK in the three cups but didn't win any of them, and I did win the league having lost only one match. The board were at no time any happier than 'satisfied', though they were 'pleased' that I won the league.

In the second season I have won all five competitions (including the pesky Charity Shield) and went unbeaten in the league. I beat Spurs 3-0 in the FA Cup Final and Man U 4-0 in the Champs Lge Final. And the board are still 'satisfied'. WTF? You'd have thought they'd be more than satisfied with, if it happened IRL, the most successful season known in English football, if not on a wider scale!

Weird.

At least the fans are pleased.

I have a similar problem as BlueBeard. Despite taking Gateshead so far and transforming them from non-profit, non-league obscurity to a successful money making Premier League the board have rarely been anything other than 'Satisfied'.

They should without a doubt be absolutely delighted, especially as I'm still improving every year and if it wasn't for me they'd still be lucky to get 400 fans at £5 per ticket. Now (because I'm currently ground sharing with Sunderland) they regularly get over 40,000 fans through the gates paying full Premier league prices. All that in less than 13 years, a bit of appreciation would be nice!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Man City win the Prem, Champions League and the World Cup Championship.......and it's the SACKING thats unrealistic </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lmao, I have to agree.