Diving - an idea

I have always felt that diving is something that should not be tolerated in football. It is a form of cheating, that in short takes away the magic of football. I understand that is takes place inside the football world and therefor should be implemented in the game, and am in fact for this.

What i would like to see in the game in future versions is the chance to punish your own players for diving (sorry if this already exists - i searched and did not find anything ont the topics (or in the game )). I ilke the fact that we can fine players for misconduct, missing training etc etc. and would to be able to make the team aware of my hatred for divers.

In previous games i have simply left the player out and fined him, this of course made him upset as he had no idea what i was getting angry at, but now in 08 i cant even fine the player, and leaving him out is just as detremental as before.

If this was to be simpy added to the fining system i would be happy, as this would allow me to stamp my football upon the team, while reducing the silly bookings that result in a star player missing a vital game.

Any ideas are welcome.

Cam

I have always felt that diving is something that should not be tolerated in football. It is a form of cheating, that in short takes away the magic of football. I understand that is takes place inside the football world and therefor should be implemented in the game, and am in fact for this.

What i would like to see in the game in future versions is the chance to punish your own players for diving (sorry if this already exists - i searched and did not find anything ont the topics (or in the game )). I ilke the fact that we can fine players for misconduct, missing training etc etc. and would to be able to make the team aware of my hatred for divers.

In previous games i have simply left the player out and fined him, this of course made him upset as he had no idea what i was getting angry at, but now in 08 i cant even fine the player, and leaving him out is just as detremental as before.

If this was to be simpy added to the fining system i would be happy, as this would allow me to stamp my football upon the team, while reducing the silly bookings that result in a star player missing a vital game.

Any ideas are welcome.

Cam

from me, especially just to implement it to the fining system as it keeps it simple and hopefully then wouldn't become a feature that would be overly used

There should also be a slider in the tactics screen for Diving (rarely, mixed, often).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LSS:

There should also be a slider in the tactics screen for Diving (rarely, mixed, often). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking more of just a Preferred Move

I like the OP's idea.

I hate the fact that I can't fine players as and when I want to.

During my first (and only) stint at Lower League managing, I was so incensed at my players poor performances that each time they lost I fined the entire team a weeks wages.

My thought was this:

If they aren't doing their jobs, they don't deserve to be paid. Simple as.

Of course, the board didn't appreciate my constant fining of the players which was damaging morale.

They were going to sack me but I jumped 1st.

Why can't we fine our players on '08 unless the option is opened for us?...

LSS - i think my idea just edged it im afraid

Starr_Man - i totally agree with you, and had something simlilar happen to me aswell.

I'd like that. If a player dives, I want to kick him in the nuts. So yes, SI, listen to this wise topicstarter and include something like it.

depends if he won me the champions league or not but good idea.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dexta200:

depends if he won me the champions league or not but good idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If my diver wins me the Champions League, I want an option to give him a bonus on his wages.

Personally I would have loved this feature in my last job, I had a striker who picked up about 25 yellow cards in three seasons for diving.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dexta200:

depends if he won me the champions league or not but good idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So instead of being a 'Talented Manager' you could be a 'Manager who loves his players to unfairly dive just to get a result'

great idea

Yeah all for that idea, nice one

Not sold on the idea of having a slider for diving. That just wouldn't be practical

IRL a few years ago, I think I remember the Torquay management saying that if any of their players dived they would immediately put them on the transfer list.

Drastic

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by route1:

IRL a few years ago, I think I remember the Torquay management saying that if any of their players dived they would immediately put them on the transfer list.

Drastic </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Drastic, but something i would do if they did it too much. Im a football fan

Agree- one of the most annoying things SI have done in FM is have things happen (like diving) and not give us ANY way of influencing these areas.

I agree with this, but you could also go to Player Interaction and fine, transfer/loan list him, put him in reserves/U18's, drop or suspend the player or give him a warning for diving.He could then accept his punishment, or deal with it in several other different ways, either in public or private, like apoligising to you/the team, saying you told him to dive (because I agree with the diving slidebar), complaining that he didn't dive. He could then, if he was particulary unhappy, have a lower morale (possibly for the whole team to, dislike you or ask to be transfer listed (if he isn't already).

Stormz - dont you think that taking the idea that deep will take alot of coding, meaning alot of time, and as a result less time spent on other, more important, areas of the game.

I like what your saying, but to be honest to have it would be great, but i'd prefer alot more time spent on confidence, match engine etc etc

Sorry for the double post, but players should have a diving attribute too.

(20 for Ronaldo, Roony, Tevez, Fabregas, Adediehor, Ediedo, Lameman, Hor-ne...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stormz30000:

Sorry for the double post, but players should have a diving attribute too.

(20 for Ronaldo, Roony, Tevez, Fabregas, Adediehor, Ediedo, Lameman, Hor-ne... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that i agree with, even if it was hidden.

Sorry, was typing while you posted Cameron1911, but yes, I do agree thing you mentioned should take priorty. However, I'm not so sure it would take too long because most of what I said is already implemented in different areas of the game. Most of the punishments, like fines, can be done for different things like unproffesinal behavoir, they can already apoligise for demanding a transfer or more games, and uhappy players do give in transfer requests/lower morale. As for my 2nd post, all that would be needed was one more attribute, saying what chance a player has of succeding at something, and the diving slidebar would justbe another slidebar. Also, some of these changes would upgrade the match enigene by the implementation of diving.

If it could be inmplemented to the depth that you described, easily, without disrupting other aspects of the making process, then yes.

P.s i post at the same time as others all the time

If it could be inmplemented to the depth that you described, easily, without disrupting other aspects of the making process, then yes.

P.s i post at the same time as others all the time

Diving Attribute would be harsh as it tends to be club based more then player.

also is mostly non english players.

would be funny to see how training would include diving.

c.ronaldo would def get a 20 then all the man u fan boys would stop moaning about elano stats adding up more lol

Well why not player based?

Say Ronaldo was at Man U, he dives alot and his diving attribute was at 20 (as we all agree), then he came to my club (or i took over Man U), i could then stamp it out of him using the aforementioned idea.

Yes, while it would be mostly foreign players with the high attribute, would that not be realistic?

Training - i doubt that would be included if this ever is, as it would be too much coding. And what were talking about is between Manager - player, and would not be trained. (Ronaldo on a training pitch, with top actor practising diving )

Cameron, if it were a stat it would most likely go in one of the existing catergories, like aerobics. No harm having a high stat, just means he CAN use it, not WILL use it, depending on attitude/instructions.

Good idea and simple to implement.

Yeh, that makes sense for it going in a already existent categories, but surely it would be a mental stat then.

What attitudes would discourage diving (despite high stat) then? Professional? - if so wouldn't his diving stat be low? Or not?

Instructions - that would have a partial involvment on him. because in real life how many times have you seen players disobey managers. My uncle is a pro player and i have seen him ignore instructions (i know cause he said so after, and the fact that he was subbed).

Back to training - if it was involved in training, which way would it grow up, or down. It would depend on what you would want gim to do, but how would you get the message to the oaches to train him at getting better at diving, or train him out of it?

Cam

this would also allow expansion in the player interaction and media interaction by talking about your dislike of cheats, say how disappointed you are if your player dived

should be given to some players

Exactly Llama, exactly. Making the game more personalised.

Ive alwyas felt that my management stlye is limited in the game, and that the players are learning my football through a robot version of me.

Any other ideas?

This sounds like quite a simple idea to put into the game, and, like most of you have expressed, would add an extra dimension. Hope SI is reading!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by llama3:

this would also allow expansion in the player interaction and media interaction by talking about your dislike of cheats, say how disappointed you are if your player dived </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SI could add another mental attribute to the manager (like the club/player loyalty thing) saying "hate of cheating" which would be high if you express your hate of it in interviews. Or it could be implemented into the "Squad dicipline" category.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by man u for life:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by llama3:

this would also allow expansion in the player interaction and media interaction by talking about your dislike of cheats, say how disappointed you are if your player dived </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SI could add another mental attribute to the manager (like the club/player loyalty thing) saying "hate of cheating" which would be high if you express your hate of it in interviews. Or it could be implemented into the "Squad dicipline" category. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like that. I like that alot.

I do hope SI are reading?!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goodzorr_avfc:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LSS:

There should also be a slider in the tactics screen for Diving (rarely, mixed, often). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking more of just a Preferred Move </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree with that and the OP

a PPM for diving or a stat for how often they dive

and yes. I've always wanted to fine for diving etc.

doesn't the sporting attribute cover things like diving. looks like you english are opsessed with diving and similar things. I guess maradona's "hand of god" really frustrated you guys.

I really don't see any problem, it might happen more often player dives and I can agree you should be able to punish him. but not everybody here is english, there are also mentalities which consider cheating as normal even rewarding, lol.

Rewarding, yes. Satisfying, no.

Thats part of the idea, you can 'choose' to fine him (etc etc), so if your all for diving then you can let it be.

If your not, well... you press the fine buton

I personaly don't see what being english (and i prefer the term british, as im welsh) has any relevance on whether it should be involved.

sorry british, than. I allways thought about brittish style of football as tough but honest and sporting. at least if you compare it to italian or balkan. IMO it's not that common for brittish players to dive or fake or simulate. and I really like that.

I just wanted to say that you might find diving as extremly unsporting, unlike someone in buones aires or palermo would think of it as something normal. -> diving should allready be in "sporting attribute". there's no need to have a special PPM for diving. than we could also have a PPM for "likes to play with hands" or "enjoys to spit on opponents"...

Sorry if i sounded harsh.

I suppose you might be right, but i still think that they should at least have one in the mental area of the attributes (unless thats what you mean?), and my decisions (fining) have an effect on that.

Cam

of course, I completly agree. it can get even further with player interaction (fining could be the last step of your paciente). what I'm thinking about is something what fergie did with ronaldo. we all know how he was when he came to man u. with right guidence (changing his manners, even his personality?) his manager achieved that ronaldo is such a playr as he is now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

of course, I completly agree. it can get even further with player interaction (fining could be the last step of your paciente). what I'm thinking about is something what fergie did with ronaldo. we all know how he was when he came to man u. with right guidence (changing his manners, even his personality?) his manager achieved that ronaldo is such a playr as he is now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean warning him? Telling him he's not playing because of his diving, and that if he does not improve this aspect, his chances of playing are non existant. Or something along that line.

wouldn't diving be placed into the sporting mentality?

An unsporting player is more likely to dive than a sporting player, so it depends on that characteristic.

So you could mentor the player to be more sporting by following other sporting players which may take there mental aspect, which may improve their mental stats and thus, stop some diving?

this making diving too clear cut. at times it is near impossible to tell if a player dived, especially in the lower leagues with no TV. where do u discriminate between a player going down very softly where he could have stayed on his feet or doing the right thing and staying up? this would not happen in the real world as it would be too judgmental and inconsistent.

I'd further bundo_tom's point. The only comment we get in the commentary is "That looked like a dive". Currently, it isn't definitive enough, and that could cause a lot of frustration for users who end up with unhappy players because of making the wrong choice regarding fines (it might have looked like a dive, but the player was actually fouled, and now can't understand why you're disciplining him).

Furthermore, a diving stat would have to be able to fluctuate a lot more freely than other stats. For example, Ronaldo would've probably been a 19 or 20 when he joined the premiership, after a couple of seasons, in my opinion this would've dropped to about 13. With the right management you should be able to make very significant changes to such an attribute, that would, I imagine, make it very difficult to code.

Let's also look at this from a different view point. What about players like Ashley Young or Aaron Lennon who can be accused of going down easy. In the majority of cases they are, to the letter of the law, fouled, but they make sure they get the decision in their favour. By the very same token, they occasionally miss out on the big decisions because referee's believe they've gone down to easily, when they have in fact been definitely fouled. This could be interpreted by the game, or by a researcher as lending itself towards a higher diving attribute, which might then end up leading to the player diving a lot within the game.

I think the current system, is fine, but perhaps with a way, as part of the tactical build up to encourage or discourage diving as part of the game.

Raoulx - yes, it could be, and everything you mentioned would work.

Bundo_tom and Geoff Newman - We could easily make this clear cut by adding either clearer commentry, or the ass man telling you (and it being correct).

Geoff Newman - regarding the lennon issue, to me this does not count as diving, and therefore would have no relevance on the issue. It would simply be put under strength, probably still there, and to be honest it wouldnt bother me if this was in or not.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stormz30000:

Sorry for the double post, but players should have a diving attribute too.

(20 for Ronaldo, Roony, Tevez, Fabregas, Adediehor, Ediedo, Lameman, Hor-ne... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They do - it comes under 'sportsmanship' as a hidden stat.

Plus, this hasn't been mentioned yet - you can have a more professional/sporting older player tutor a miscreant youth to cut the diving out of his game.

Yeh, that makes sense for it going in a already existent categories, but surely it would be a mental stat then.

What attitudes would discourage diving (despite high stat) then? Professional? - if so wouldn't his diving stat be low? Or not?

Instructions - that would have a partial involvment on him. because in real life how many times have you seen players disobey managers. My uncle is a pro player and i have seen him ignore instructions (i know cause he said so after, and the fact that he was subbed).

Back to training - if it was involved in training, which way would it grow up, or down. It would depend on what you would want gim to do, but how would you get the message to the oaches to train him at getting better at diving, or train him out of it?

Cam

I think that it would go under a pre-existing training catergory, but the stat would affect hell well he could dive if he wanted to. However, factors like personality, his instructions and influence from teamates and his gaffer would determain whether or not he actully chose to use his skill. For example, a player who has 20 in long shots, may not do them if he is told not to.

It would be good if a more mature player reacted badly to it. For example when torres started to dive at the begining of the season Gerrard had a word with him and he stopped - so it was a positive reaction. However it would be could if there would be some negativity between players aswell.... Maybe?

P.S i'm new here

If you had the option available to fine a player for diving what would you do in this situation that led to your team scoring a penalty.

Team X are incesed, they clearly thought Player Y dived.

or

It certainly LOOKED like Player Y dived.

or

Player Y is furious with the referee, he clearly feels that was a penalty. (He gets booked for diving).