I give up! It's useless!

Some people here are saying that patch 9.2 has made big improvements .. to be honest, I haven't seen that much improvement! The idiot players are still there ... the laughable mistakes are still there ... the match engine telling you 'no way, you're not gonna win' is still there! The list is endless ... & honestly, I just give up.

This is the first time ever I said I will give up while playing CM/FM ... the first time! And before accusing me (like all 'friends' of SI do here in the forums) that 'it's my tactics', I would like to list only a few of the problems with this 'poor' game. And yes, I repeat, poor when compared to all the other CM/FM series, which, as you might've guessed, I had them & played them with great pleasure all of them.

1. Can somebody please explain to me how come in FM09 all the wingers are exceptional players?? They just grab the ball from midfield, run like horses up to the byline (no matter which world class fullback you might have), cross 'perfectly' on to their striker & yes you guessed it, goal!! Wow .. if only football was that simple! It's like watching the 1954 World Cup!

2. Can someone please explain to me all the ping-pong sessions in a game? And apart from that, why 60% of the passes/shots/crosses have to hit another player?!!? Especially crosses! Since the release of patch 9.2 I noticed an increasingly number of crosses hitting the full-back & going out! I'm like, WTF, does this really happen that often IRL?

3. Can someone please explain to me why defenders & midfielders very regularly just stay staring at their opponent without doing nothing? & don't come to me saying you must close down bla bla bla ... I did my part in tactics, rest assured about that!

4. Can someone please explain to me why even if I'm playing deep, my opponents are really really good that they STILL manage to get the ball behind my defence?? Or better ... are my defenders that stupid that even though I tell them to stay deep they just don't give a f*** about my instructions & they just push up? & I play with Liverpool .. therefore, the defenders shouldn't be that stupid I assume! & again I repeat, don't tell me it's my tactics because it's not ... the match engine is bad, really bad. I went through all the guidelines provided by SI .. I didn't change tactics regularly, just tinkered a bit from game to game, I've always used the same tactic but for nothing. It works for maybe 2 or if I'm lucky 3 games & then bang ... I don't win a single game for the next month or more! So if it's my tactics, it shouldn't have worked properly from the beginning right? But why it works well for a couple of games & you feel great ... then, all of a sudden, it just doesn't anymore? Maybe the computer managers of FM are that good that once they figure out your tactic, you don't have a chance? If this is the case ... it's stupid!

5. Can someone please tell me why Jamie Carrager is so bad & stupid in this game?? Surely not the Carra in real life!

6. Patch 9.2 was supposed to fix the 'rugby-like' shots from strikers/midfielders ... it didn't!!! I still have 5-6 rugby shots in each game ... and no, my players don't have long shots set to often! Another thing which the patch was 'supposed' to fix was the number of times shots hit the post and/or bar .... well, no, it wasn't fixed. I still experience a high number of shots hitting the bar/post in each game .. and not only by my team.

7. Can someone please explain why if a player is 'clearly' offside, the ref just lets him run, come near the keeper, shoot & then blows his whistle??!? It's not like that IRL .. if a striker is clearly offside, the ref blows his whistle instantly! Well, not in FM09 for sure! & this happens very regularly.

8. Can someone please explain to me why, if Im winning & I change a bit my tactic to be more cautious, almost instantly my opponents score a goal?? Im like, hey, what did I do wrong?!?

9. & now Im gonna end with the most laughable of all! Playing against Everton away, winning 1-0 ... it's the 89th minute. So obviously, I decide to change my tactics + make a substitution. I instruct my players to be more cautious, deep etc etc. Ok, I confirm my tactics & obviously the action that was going on before I entered the tactics screen keeps going. Fair enough, I accept that .. the ball is still in play. But then, we win a freekick & I say to myself .. right, now the match engine will apply my tactics BECAUSE THE GAME IS STOPPED! But NO! The match engine has other plans, maybe because results are pre-determined before kick-off in this game! So what happens?! My keeper takes the freekick (remember, my tactics+sub haven't been applied for some reason) .. Everton win the ball & SCORE!!! & Im like WTF?!?!? It was our freekick therefore WE HAD THE RIGHT TO make the substitution! If it was their freekick MAYBE I could understand that they take it quickly but only maybe! So they score & then the match engine decides to change my tactics etc!! & we lost 2 points or better were stolen 2 points!

In my opinion the tactical changes in a game are flawed in FM09 & need drastical changes. Let me explain why. IRL, if a manager wants to give tactical instructions to players, he doesn't need to wait for the ball to go out to shout them to the players. & usually, tactical changes/instructions within a game occur instantly. Why isn't that way in FM? Why for example can't we have an option that, I don't know, we right click on a particular player during the game & provide instructions accordingly? It's how it's done IRL sort of .. you regularly see managers either giving instructions to full backs/wingers & then they relay them to the rest of the team ... or else you see managers shouting & giving instructions to players. I believe these tactical instructions need a major overhaul in FM .. otherwise, many gamers like me are gonna lose confidence in SI. & to be honest, I've lost it!

Well that's basically it .. it's not all I had to say but Im tired of writing! There are so many flaws & bugs in this game that it's impossible to list them all .. & I've just given up hope of playing it anymore.

Any comments would be appreciated ... but I very much doubt that they will convince me to start playing the game again!

yeah i feel you!!..

i made a new game(again) with stoke!

this time i decided to think hard and make the perfect tactic.

it took me forever to start the season because i wanted everything to be perfect..

ok so season begins home vs aston villa ...hey we win 2-0 great work guys!!

next game away vs arsenal ...wow we beat arsenal away 1-0 ..this time i must really been tactically spot on....after that my team failed to win a single match..guess the computer ai read my tactics after that..only took him 2 matches to do so..while it took me hours to try to make my tactics....why even bother trying to make a decent tactic that will fail once the allmighty ai has cracked it after 2 games...

the computer can win against you with the likes of brentford if it wants to..

im yet to have any success in ths game..and i doubt if i do it will have anything to do with me..just some lucky dice throws going my way...

i once got relegated with reading in one of my games..i had players like mikel from chelsea and xisco and zaki and other decent players...they all played like junk even in the championship against some loser players that had the sliders spot on!!

in football manager 06 i managed to get 15 serie a titles in 17 seasons with lazio with same tactics...not that i want it to happen here....but i guess in this game i would be relegated after a few season with lazio...hehe

Don't feel bad mate. Football Manager's not for everybody.

Imagine how crap it would be if it was.

Its coz your Liverpool and Carragher is stupid because he scores own goals all the time

But seriously its probably just the way you go about your ways of playing football:)

Some things do need looking at, the tactical interface needs a whole new look. Sliders need to go. Personal player instructions need to be possible (ie a player can have instructions given no matter where he is on the pitch).

Training sliders also need to go. How many managers say to their coaches, 'Yes I'd like you to train this player on 19 out of 20 for shooting this week'...what, do we get him to shoot, then just before the ball goes in the net do we shoot the ball. Every time he kicks it someone shouts 'pull'.

No, the coaches are there and know their job, the manager just gives them direction and focus. This week, focus the first team on adapting to playing a 4-1-4-1 defensive formation. Let's get some set pieces practiced, and as it's a cup game we might need some penalty taking practice.

All the fitness, ball control etc should be just par for the course. Better coaches can identify players that need extra stamina training etc, we shouldn't have to fiddle around for hours on end tinkering with such micro management.

Don't get me wrong, this is the best ever FM imo...though I do think the tactical and training sides need a whole new revamp for FM10.

I'm sitting here quite stumped to be honest. I had a few issues with players acting strangely in the first patch, but it's come to a head with 9.2. Players miss simple passes by metres, they stop on the spot when a ball is there to be won, defenders are still ABSOLUTE ******* and the wingers are still stupidly effective.

Is there any way to revert back a patch on Steam?

CobainK: upload the tactic you're using with Liverpool and let some of us have a look at it, there could be a few oversights in there, tactically, that could be looked at? Tactics can work, I've had success, relatively, with Athletic Bilbao by adapting a TTF tactic to my own needs, and they're nowhere near as good as Liverpool, and can't buy in just anyone to strengthen the squad as they only buy Basque players or promote from the youth ranks.

Success is relative in this game by the way, I came 7th in La Liga with Bilbao having been tipped to be relegation strugglers, I call that a bloody good season, FM is now so realistic that all the people who think they can automatically pick any team and be challenging for a title can be and have been sorely disappointed.

CobainK: upload the tactic you're using with Liverpool and let some of us have a look at it, there could be a few oversights in there, tactically, that could be looked at? Tactics can work, I've had success, relatively, with Athletic Bilbao by adapting a TTF tactic to my own needs, and they're nowhere near as good as Liverpool, and can't buy in just anyone to strengthen the squad as they only buy Basque players or promote from the youth ranks.

Success is relative in this game by the way, I came 7th in La Liga with Bilbao having been tipped to be relegation strugglers, I call that a bloody good season, FM is now so realistic that all the people who think they can automatically pick any team and be challenging for a title can be and have been sorely disappointed.

I don't expect to win the league, not at all. I just expect decent performances from good players that's all. My target is a place in the first 4, so Im not looking even to 2nd place.

And I bought players like Aguero, who is really really bad in this game ... Matias Fernandez, Thiago Silva etc.

For example I just can't figure out how much Pepe Reina is really bad in this game as well!!

Maybe if I have time I will upload my tactics but I've wasted so much time trying to find the right tactic, the right staff, the right players & the right training schedules, that I don't have any more time to waste to be honest!!

Lucky all of you who have been successful in this game ... because with all due respect, I believe it's just luck, like somebody said earlier. I've played all the CM/FM series & never found it impossible like in FM09. I repeat, I don't wanna the league .. I don't wanna an easy game ... it's challenging when a game is difficult & it's fun ... but it's depressing when a game is impossible & it's not fun ... & this is what FM09 is imo.

Its coz your Liverpool and Carragher is stupid because he scores own goals all the time

But seriously its probably just the way you go about your ways of playing football:)

Carragher is stupid?! hehe yea right ... he's one of the best defenders in England, if not the best!

Ask Capello ... how much he wishes he hadn't retired from International Football!

Apart from the tactics, it's also important to have great morale. If you start losing and the moral goes down, it's more difficult to win.

Also of extreme importance, I believe, are team talks. If you neglect it or don't say the right things at the right time, you've no chance. And don't keep saying the same thing over and over again. You need to adapt, otherwise nobody will listen to you.

Apart from the tactics, it's also important to have great morale. If you start losing and the moral goes down, it's more difficult to win.

Also of extreme importance, I believe, are team talks. If you neglect it or don't say the right things at the right time, you've no chance. And don't keep saying the same thing over and over again. You need to adapt, otherwise nobody will listen to you.

Morale is almost always normal to high & I had a very good harmony in the dressing room but apparently it doesn't work.

I pay extra importance to team talk & I don't repeat. But it doesn't always work funnily enough. Also I believe team talk is still very much restricted in FM09 as it was in FM08.

1. I agree with you on this one. It seems all too easy for a winger or full back to just gallop up the wing and put a cross in as the opposing players run sideways at an angle and gradually get further away from them.

2. That does happen in real life and your % stat is a guess.

3. I agree again. They just stand beside the player and don't close down, whether they are set to close down and if OI are set.

4. Again I agree It's driving me mad, even the best defenders with the best tactics seem to suffer from lapses in concentration every game.

5. I don't rate Carragher so IMO the game is ok there

6. I disagree with this one, I haven't conceded a single spectacular goal in my first season with Udinese.

7. The views in 3D are limited so it's hard to tell if it's offside or not. I think this one is very debateable, and whislt it seems like there's an issue, we can't say for certain.

8. Depends on whether or not your tactical change works and it obviously doesn't. Not a fault of the game.

9. This is a problem every year and tbh I can see why people are getting so PO'd with it. Doesn't bother me a great deal, but surely it's not hard to set the changes to take place as soon as the ball goes out of play.

1. Can somebody please explain to me how come in FM09 all the wingers are exceptional players?? They just grab the ball from midfield, run like horses up to the byline (no matter which world class fullback you might have), cross 'perfectly' on to their striker & yes you guessed it, goal!! Wow .. if only football was that simple! It's like watching the 1954 World Cup!

2. Can someone please explain to me all the ping-pong sessions in a game? And apart from that, why 60% of the passes/shots/crosses have to hit another player?!!? Especially crosses! Since the release of patch 9.2 I noticed an increasingly number of crosses hitting the full-back & going out! I'm like, WTF, does this really happen that often IRL?

Sorry, but aren't these two points in direct contradiction of one another? Surely if ALL the wingers are exceptional and always cross perfectly, then their crosses can't be hitting other players and going out 60% of the time...

If you have problems with the match engine, it's better to describe them in a way which actually makes sense and is consistant in it's rant.

Some people here are saying that patch 9.2 has made big improvements .. to be honest, I haven't seen that much improvement! The idiot players are still there ... the laughable mistakes are still there ... the match engine telling you 'no way, you're not gonna win' is still there! The list is endless ... & honestly, I just give up.

...yadda yadda...

Any comments would be appreciated ... but I very much doubt that they will convince me to start playing the game again!

Put the shotgun down...Courtney and Frances Bean need you...

Sorry, but aren't these two points in direct contradiction of one another? Surely if ALL the wingers are exceptional and always cross perfectly, then their crosses can't be hitting other players and going out 60% of the time...

If you have problems with the match engine, it's better to describe them in a way which actually makes sense and is consistant in it's rant.

First of all mine wasn't a rant .. I just wanted to express the problems I've been noticing since playing the game. The last game I started I watched matches in Extended not just key highlights so that I can figure out more what's happening. I don't have that much time to watch a game in full, but in extended you get a much better idea.

Secondly no they're not contradicting. The OPPONENTS' wingers/fullbacks run like horses & cross well most of the time .. yes sometimes even their crosses hit my defenders but not as much as my crosses. & everybody knows that Riera, Kuyt, Aurelio, Gerrard etc etc are all good crossers of the ball!

9. & now Im gonna end with the most laughable of all! Playing against Everton away, winning 1-0 ... it's the 89th minute. So obviously, I decide to change my tactics + make a substitution. I instruct my players to be more cautious, deep etc etc. Ok, I confirm my tactics & obviously the action that was going on before I entered the tactics screen keeps going. Fair enough, I accept that .. the ball is still in play. But then, we win a freekick & I say to myself .. right, now the match engine will apply my tactics BECAUSE THE GAME IS STOPPED! But NO! The match engine has other plans, maybe because results are pre-determined before kick-off in this game! So what happens?! My keeper takes the freekick (remember, my tactics+sub haven't been applied for some reason) .. Everton win the ball & SCORE!!! & Im like WTF?!?!? It was our freekick therefore WE HAD THE RIGHT TO make the substitution! If it was their freekick MAYBE I could understand that they take it quickly but only maybe! So they score & then the match engine decides to change my tactics etc!! & we lost 2 points or better were stolen 2 points!

I had a similar match. I was leading 2-1 away and out of the blue my opponent took a 4-2-4 in use and a second later they scored!!! Just after their goal they switched back to a defensive tactic... It's just not funny !!!!

Put the shotgun down...Courtney and Frances Bean need you...

Hehe if I had a shotgun I will shoot SI not myself for sure!!

I had a similar match. I was leading 2-1 away and out of the blue my opponent took a 4-2-4 in use and a second later they scored!!! Just after their goal they switched back to a defensive tactic... It's just not funny !!!!

No not funny at all ... yea the AI managers are really good with that tactic!

Once I was playing at home against West Brom .. winning 3-0 at half-time. Game finished 3-3!!!! Unbelievable ... & no, noone was sent off & I wasn't employing an ultra-attacking tactic neither. Just normal!!

Amazing how West Brom are really good all of a sudden!!!

Carragher is stupid?! hehe yea right ... he's one of the best defenders in England, if not the best!

You on some sort of wind up!

He's not fit to lace the boots of Ferdinand and Vidic. Terry and Carvaliho are streets ahead of him as well. Come to think of it i would rather have Matthew Upson in my side also

Amazing how West Brom are really good all of a sudden!!!

I was thinking the same thing on Sunday when they beat the worlds richest club

I was thinking the same thing on Sunday when they beat the worlds richest club

Does being the richest club make you the best club though?

And on Sunday West Brom were playing at home!

And do you really think Man City, because they have all that money, are really that good?!?

Come on, please be real.

Carragher is stupid?! hehe yea right ... he's one of the best defenders in England, if not the best!

You on some sort of wind up!

He's not fit to lace the boots of Ferdinand and Vidic. Terry and Carvaliho are streets ahead of him as well. Come to think of it i would rather have Matthew Upson in my side also

Matthew Upson?? Hehe yea whatever!

I agree that Ferdinand & Terry are 2 of the best as well ... don't agree with you regarding Vidic though.

But everybody in the world knows how good Carra is ... you just have to listen to the TV commentaries when watching a Liverpool game! & no, I dont watch them on Liverpool TV!

I was 2-0 up away against Bolivia I am Uruguay. About 60 mins gone have dominated the game in every way, shots, possession, position on the field. Bolivia score from a defensive lapse (fair enough they happen I think).

Then the ME decides I know what will be really f'ing entertaining the Uruguay keeper doing kick-ups (yep kick-ups thats all I can describe them as, he sort of dropped the ball on his foot & kicked it up a few times) then he mis-controlled th ball 10 yards forward to a bolivia striker who scores.

I then go on to hit the post, and the bar twice. Their keeper makes three un-believable saves and I draw a game I dominated having 60% possession and 18 shots to their 2.

I then spent the next 5 minutes looking at my teams instructions tto see where I had given the miss all one-on-ones and act like a tit instruction to the strikers and keeper respectively!

Its games like this that **** people off.

Come on, please be real.

I find that hilarious coming from someone who has argued some of the most ridiculous points i've ever seen on these forums.

Does anyone feel HT talks are a bit too juiced?

Seems like no squad, my own or CPU, can keep a 1-goal HT lead, and 2-goal leads aren't really safe. The "whatever was said at halftime must have worked!" commentary is commonplace.

Unfortunately, you're right about your criticism of some of these areas. It doesn't really mean that you can curse as SI or FM - they made a really good first attempt at a 3D representation of the match-engine, and an enjoyable game at that.

Let me reply in a similar fashion:

1. Yes, I guess this is one of the biggest problems in the game. Where normally, in real football, teams would have to play smartly to get the ball through, the AI is stupid and just allows wingers to run free and through balls to happen. Remember, though, I suppose you're not watching a 90 minute match, and I'm sure the wingers are stopped often in non-highlight situations. The times where they aren't stop, are obviously likely to be highlight. Even if this is true, they still get through in a terrible fashion (bad AI), but just keep this is mind.

2. I'm guessing that this is one of the things that SI have altered in patch 9.2 to make wingers cross less successfully. It happens very often in real life, just differently. In real life football, the wingers will be closed down a lot more to prevent them from making the cross, whereas in the game, the defender just follows the wingers and gets in the way of the ball, which doesn't happen as often in real football. When I played the original, unpatched, game, I noticed that this was greatly dependant on which team you were managing and somehow how they were players. In the test-games that I did, it happened constantly to me, while it hardly ever happened to my friend. It was a bit of a pain because that was one of the situations that made me the most impatient, but it's nonetheless fairly realistic.

3. As with number 1, this is one of the big problems in the current 3D representation of the game. It's not nearly dynamic enough to make all the goal-scoring situations seem real, and seems to create goals on the premise of bad AI.

4. This can happen no matter who you are in real life, but still happens to much because of AI problems similar to those in number 3.

5. This doesn't matter at all and has no relevance to the other points you are making. Nonetheless, I'll take up your point and claim that Carragher is at least as good in the game as he is in real life. He's actually pretty good in the game, but not fantastic, as you seem to expect.

6. This has certainly gotten better. I would recommend you do more testing before drawing any conclusions.

7. This is completely realistic. Often you will notice that the commentary says "the whistle was already blown". The player doesn't hear is and just contunies. SI didn't bother to change their previous setup to make the game less realistic, they are trying to add a touch of realism here.

8. This has to be coincidence. Granted, I feel terrible with the knowledge that the game will be recalculated every time I make a change, but that calculation can amount to everything. So with you setting your team to play more carefully, it should make the opponent less likely to score, unless, through tactics, it actually given your opponents more space. The only thing you can really complain about here is if tactics don't work logically, but to make that point you would need much more details. The game will always be recalculated, and there is virtually no way to do this differently.

9. Another touch of realism. In real life, the officials won't register your wish to make tactical changes the minute you make it. Therefore, it only makes sense that a couple of minutes get to pass and the ball is out of play once before they let you make the substitution. This is another detail where SI have changed how the game previously worked to make it more realistic.

I was 2-0 up away against Bolivia I am Uruguay. About 60 mins gone have dominated the game in every way, shots, possession, position on the field. Bolivia score from a defensive lapse (fair enough they happen I think).

Then the ME decides I know what will be really f'ing entertaining the Uruguay keeper doing kick-ups (yep kick-ups thats all I can describe them as, he sort of dropped the ball on his foot & kicked it up a few times) then he mis-controlled th ball 10 yards forward to a bolivia striker who scores.

I then go on to hit the post, and the bar twice. Their keeper makes three un-believable saves and I draw a game I dominated having 60% possession and 18 shots to their 2.

I then spent the next 5 minutes looking at my teams instructions tto see where I had given the miss all one-on-ones and act like a tit instruction to the strikers and keeper respectively!

Its games like this that **** people off.

That sounds fantastic. Just goes to show how anything can happen and how the slightest details can change a game. Strikers missing too many one-on-ones is an annoying "flaw" in the match-engine, but I believe it's a bit better in 9.2. Nonetheless, I don't see any reason why that couldn't realistically happen several times in the same game.

Carragher is stupid?! hehe yea right ... he's one of the best defenders in England, if not the best!

Ask Capello ... how much he wishes he hadn't retired from International Football!

ROFL - he is not international class anymore

I find that hilarious coming from someone who has argued some of the most ridiculous points i've ever seen on these forums.

You've agreed with MOST of my ridiculous points if Im not mistaken Nomis!

Oh it's you again ... ok, why should I bother then?!!

Unfortunately, you're right about your criticism of some of these areas. It doesn't really mean that you can curse as SI or FM - they made a really good first attempt at a 3D representation of the match-engine, and an enjoyable game at that.

Let me reply in a similar fashion:

1. Yes, I guess this is one of the biggest problems in the game. Where normally, in real football, teams would have to play smartly to get the ball through, the AI is stupid and just allows wingers to run free and through balls to happen. Remember, though, I suppose you're not watching a 90 minute match, and I'm sure the wingers are stopped often in non-highlight situations. The times where they aren't stop, are obviously likely to be highlight. Even if this is true, they still get through in a terrible fashion (bad AI), but just keep this is mind.

2. I'm guessing that this is one of the things that SI have altered in patch 9.2 to make wingers cross less successfully. It happens very often in real life, just differently. In real life football, the wingers will be closed down a lot more to prevent them from making the cross, whereas in the game, the defender just follows the wingers and gets in the way of the ball, which doesn't happen as often in real football. When I played the original, unpatched, game, I noticed that this was greatly dependant on which team you were managing and somehow how they were players. In the test-games that I did, it happened constantly to me, while it hardly ever happened to my friend. It was a bit of a pain because that was one of the situations that made me the most impatient, but it's nonetheless fairly realistic.

3. As with number 1, this is one of the big problems in the current 3D representation of the game. It's not nearly dynamic enough to make all the goal-scoring situations seem real, and seems to create goals on the premise of bad AI.

4. This can happen no matter who you are in real life, but still happens to much because of AI problems similar to those in number 3.

5. This doesn't matter at all and has no relevance to the other points you are making. Nonetheless, I'll take up your point and claim that Carragher is at least as good in the game as he is in real life. He's actually pretty good in the game, but not fantastic, as you seem to expect.

6. This has certainly gotten better. I would recommend you do more testing before drawing any conclusions.

7. This is completely realistic. Often you will notice that the commentary says "the whistle was already blown". The player doesn't hear is and just contunies. SI didn't bother to change their previous setup to make the game less realistic, they are trying to add a touch of realism here.

8. This has to be coincidence. Granted, I feel terrible with the knowledge that the game will be recalculated every time I make a change, but that calculation can amount to everything. So with you setting your team to play more carefully, it should make the opponent less likely to score, unless, through tactics, it actually given your opponents more space. The only thing you can really complain about here is if tactics don't work logically, but to make that point you would need much more details. The game will always be recalculated, and there is virtually no way to do this differently.

9. Another touch of realism. In real life, the officials won't register your wish to make tactical changes the minute you make it. Therefore, it only makes sense that a couple of minutes get to pass and the ball is out of play once before they let you make the substitution. This is another detail where SI have changed how the game previously worked to make it more realistic.

Tks for all your comments.

I don't really agree with you regarding point no. 9 though because if you read what I wrote, I said that WE had a freekick & the game was stopped. Therefore, isn't that the time my sub + changes should've been effected?? I understand that once I make change, if the ball is still in play, it can't be effected immediately. But I repeat, the game stopped for a freekick in our favour!! But my sub+changes didn't occur at that time ... and I strongly believe this happened because the match was pre-determined prior to kick-off to finish 1-1 & that's just what the ME did!!! Isn't that cheating by the way?!?

Does anyone feel HT talks are a bit too juiced?

Seems like no squad, my own or CPU, can keep a 1-goal HT lead, and 2-goal leads aren't really safe. The "whatever was said at halftime must have worked!" commentary is commonplace.

I agree. I would actually prefer to go in after 45 1-0 down instead of 1-0 up just because i know i can overturn the deficit but am worried about my ability to hold the lead for 45 minutes.

i dont say anything at half time ever unless my team are losing. Never have a problem most of the time holding onto a lead.

Does anyone feel HT talks are a bit too juiced?

Seems like no squad, my own or CPU, can keep a 1-goal HT lead, and 2-goal leads aren't really safe. The "whatever was said at halftime must have worked!" commentary is commonplace.

In my first game I was 1-0 up at half time and went on to win 2-0.

So no, I don't agree.

No, CobainK, no matter if the play is stopped and you have the ball, the fourth official has to have understood an accepted that you want to make a substitution. You cannot be sure that he will do this through one minuted of active playing and be ready to let you make the substitution right there.

In the game, it would probably take for the game to be out of play one more time, for instance, if there was a throw-in shortly after. It really does seem completely realistic, unless several minutes of continous play had gone one after you made your request and before the free kick happened, then the official surely should have noticed and acted upon your request.

Some people here are saying that patch 9.2 has made big improvements .. to be honest, I haven't seen that much improvement! The idiot players are still there ... the laughable mistakes are still there ... the match engine telling you 'no way, you're not gonna win' is still there! The list is endless ... & honestly, I just give up.

This is the first time ever I said I will give up while playing CM/FM ... the first time! And before accusing me (like all 'friends' of SI do here in the forums) that 'it's my tactics', I would like to list only a few of the problems with this 'poor' game. And yes, I repeat, poor when compared to all the other CM/FM series, which, as you might've guessed, I had them & played them with great pleasure all of them.

1. Can somebody please explain to me how come in FM09 all the wingers are exceptional players?? They just grab the ball from midfield, run like horses up to the byline (no matter which world class fullback you might have), cross 'perfectly' on to their striker & yes you guessed it, goal!! Wow .. if only football was that simple! It's like watching the 1954 World Cup!

2. Can someone please explain to me all the ping-pong sessions in a game? And apart from that, why 60% of the passes/shots/crosses have to hit another player?!!? Especially crosses! Since the release of patch 9.2 I noticed an increasingly number of crosses hitting the full-back & going out! I'm like, WTF, does this really happen that often IRL?

3. Can someone please explain to me why defenders & midfielders very regularly just stay staring at their opponent without doing nothing? & don't come to me saying you must close down bla bla bla ... I did my part in tactics, rest assured about that!

4. Can someone please explain to me why even if I'm playing deep, my opponents are really really good that they STILL manage to get the ball behind my defence?? Or better ... are my defenders that stupid that even though I tell them to stay deep they just don't give a f*** about my instructions & they just push up? & I play with Liverpool .. therefore, the defenders shouldn't be that stupid I assume! & again I repeat, don't tell me it's my tactics because it's not ... the match engine is bad, really bad. I went through all the guidelines provided by SI .. I didn't change tactics regularly, just tinkered a bit from game to game, I've always used the same tactic but for nothing. It works for maybe 2 or if I'm lucky 3 games & then bang ... I don't win a single game for the next month or more! So if it's my tactics, it shouldn't have worked properly from the beginning right? But why it works well for a couple of games & you feel great ... then, all of a sudden, it just doesn't anymore? Maybe the computer managers of FM are that good that once they figure out your tactic, you don't have a chance? If this is the case ... it's stupid!

5. Can someone please tell me why Jamie Carrager is so bad & stupid in this game?? Surely not the Carra in real life!

6. Patch 9.2 was supposed to fix the 'rugby-like' shots from strikers/midfielders ... it didn't!!! I still have 5-6 rugby shots in each game ... and no, my players don't have long shots set to often! Another thing which the patch was 'supposed' to fix was the number of times shots hit the post and/or bar .... well, no, it wasn't fixed. I still experience a high number of shots hitting the bar/post in each game .. and not only by my team.

7. Can someone please explain why if a player is 'clearly' offside, the ref just lets him run, come near the keeper, shoot & then blows his whistle??!? It's not like that IRL .. if a striker is clearly offside, the ref blows his whistle instantly! Well, not in FM09 for sure! & this happens very regularly.

8. Can someone please explain to me why, if Im winning & I change a bit my tactic to be more cautious, almost instantly my opponents score a goal?? Im like, hey, what did I do wrong?!?

9. & now Im gonna end with the most laughable of all! Playing against Everton away, winning 1-0 ... it's the 89th minute. So obviously, I decide to change my tactics + make a substitution. I instruct my players to be more cautious, deep etc etc. Ok, I confirm my tactics & obviously the action that was going on before I entered the tactics screen keeps going. Fair enough, I accept that .. the ball is still in play. But then, we win a freekick & I say to myself .. right, now the match engine will apply my tactics BECAUSE THE GAME IS STOPPED! But NO! The match engine has other plans, maybe because results are pre-determined before kick-off in this game! So what happens?! My keeper takes the freekick (remember, my tactics+sub haven't been applied for some reason) .. Everton win the ball & SCORE!!! & Im like WTF?!?!? It was our freekick therefore WE HAD THE RIGHT TO make the substitution! If it was their freekick MAYBE I could understand that they take it quickly but only maybe! So they score & then the match engine decides to change my tactics etc!! & we lost 2 points or better were stolen 2 points!

In my opinion the tactical changes in a game are flawed in FM09 & need drastical changes. Let me explain why. IRL, if a manager wants to give tactical instructions to players, he doesn't need to wait for the ball to go out to shout them to the players. & usually, tactical changes/instructions within a game occur instantly. Why isn't that way in FM? Why for example can't we have an option that, I don't know, we right click on a particular player during the game & provide instructions accordingly? It's how it's done IRL sort of .. you regularly see managers either giving instructions to full backs/wingers & then they relay them to the rest of the team ... or else you see managers shouting & giving instructions to players. I believe these tactical instructions need a major overhaul in FM .. otherwise, many gamers like me are gonna lose confidence in SI. & to be honest, I've lost it!

Well that's basically it .. it's not all I had to say but Im tired of writing! There are so many flaws & bugs in this game that it's impossible to list them all .. & I've just given up hope of playing it anymore.

Any comments would be appreciated ... but I very much doubt that they will convince me to start playing the game again!

Have you started a new game after the patch or are you playing you save game from 9.1? I read somewhere that starting a brand new game with 9.2 might be the answer to some of the issues you have stated above, I'm not sure how true that is as I have not installed 9.2 yet but it's worth a try...

No, CobainK, no matter if the play is stopped and you have the ball, the fourth official has to have understood an accepted that you want to make a substitution. You cannot be sure that he will do this through one minuted of active playing and be ready to let you make the substitution right there.

In the game, it would probably take for the game to be out of play one more time, for instance, if there was a throw-in shortly after. It really does seem completely realistic, unless several minutes of continous play had gone one after you made your request and before the free kick happened, then the official surely should have noticed and acted upon your request.

Hold on a second ... so, I made a request for a substitution in the 89th minute ok? Therefore the 4th official has been informed & therefore the next time the game is stopped, the sub should be effected. Isn't that what happens in real life or I watch different games than all of you here?

As I said in my OP ... I entered the tactics screen & made the necessary changes & obviously once I confirmed, play continued as the ball was not out of play. I totally understand that. But DURING THAT TIME, the 4th official should've been ready to effect my changes the next time the game stops! That is what happens in real life. & apart from that, the freekick was in our favour ... therefore, like IRL, my players should take it easy & not take the freekick immediately .. especially since we were winning!!!

& apart from the substitution, the tactical changes SHOULD be made instantly like in real life & not when the ball goes out of play. I already mentioned this in my OP & in my opinion tactical changes during a match need a major overhaul. Because IRL, managers shout instructions constantly - they don't have to wait for the ball to go out. In FM09, to make a tactical change seems like you're calling a Time-Out like in volleyball etc .. because it might take you between 1-3 minutes! It's not real at all!!!

Have you started a new game after the patch or are you playing you save game from 9.1? I read somewhere that starting a brand new game with 9.2 might be the answer to some of the issues you have stated above, I'm not sure how true that is as I have not installed 9.2 yet but it's worth a try...

Yes I continued my save game from 9.1.

Well, I was thinking about that & in fact, if I play again, I will start a new game with patch 9.2.

Thanks for the tip

The only thing what I haven't read so far is, that, whenever you prove to have a successful tactic IRL, your opponents will counter that tactic sooner (if constant) or later. I guess that might be a reason why winning matches will get harder in due course, but that is not a justification for all points described in here.

my problem in the game would be whenever i go against a rival team, my team would turn to 10 year old school boy soccer teams and my rival teams will get like superhuman Ronaldo-Ronaldinho-Messi hybrid kind of player from another football gifted planet. my team will get dominated coz the opponent team will be playing like maniacs on drugs with super lightning speed, accurate shots that would make robin hood look noob, defence like tyson and Ali pairing up together and the keeper is the Berlin wall. No matter wad i do (put 5 in midfield, mark all potential dangerous players) it will not work. They will make like 20+ chances while i make like 5+ chances and Im juventus with the likes of Giovinco and Buffon. I dont get this, its like the AI was suddenly given a Boost of super football talents with even rubbish players can look worldclass.

some of the FM09 Managers fail to notice a team switch to 4-2-4 at the end of the game in their attempt to recover a 1 or 2 goal defecit and/or fail to change their tactics to counter it.

Its what happens in real life and is reflected in game.

my problem in the game would be whenever i go against a rival team, my team would turn to 10 year old school boy soccer teams and my rival teams will get like superhuman Ronaldo-Ronaldinho-Messi hybrid kind of player from another football gifted planet. my team will get dominated coz the opponent team will be playing like maniacs on drugs with super lightning speed, accurate shots that would make robin hood look noob, defence like tyson and Ali pairing up together and the keeper is the Berlin wall. No matter wad i do (put 5 in midfield, mark all potential dangerous players) it will not work. They will make like 20+ chances while i make like 5+ chances and Im juventus with the likes of Giovinco and Buffon. I dont get this, its like the AI was suddenly given a Boost of super football talents with even rubbish players can look worldclass.

Yep, totally agree with you mate!!

But not just rival teams .... I've seen much lower teams performing like Real Madrid!! It's unbelievable!

Now, I don't expect to win against lesser times 5-0 or something like that, not at all. I'd be happy with a 1-0 in fact. But it's totally unrealistic how low teams with basic players have suddenly turned into really great teams winning constantly! Their players seem boosted with some sort of out-of-the-world power!!

some of the FM09 Managers fail to notice a team switch to 4-2-4 at the end of the game in their attempt to recover a 1 or 2 goal defecit and/or fail to change their tactics to counter it.

Its what happens in real life and is reflected in game.

Exactly what happend to me (in my earlier post in this thread). But what can I do about it when they switch to 4-2-4 and within a second score "their" goal and swtich back to defence... Unless I view the match in "full match" slow-down mode I can't react because it happends so damn fast !!!!!

some of the FM09 Managers fail to notice a team switch to 4-2-4 at the end of the game in their attempt to recover a 1 or 2 goal defecit and/or fail to change their tactics to counter it.

Its what happens in real life and is reflected in game.

I didn't fail to notice the 4-2-4 amazing tactic, how can you not notice it anyway? & I do try to counter against it. But, unfortunately, in FM09 the AI 4-2-4 is flawless!! Well, the only thing in FM09 that is flawless in fact!!! Whatever you do, you almost (please note almost) never manage to counter this tactic & more often than not, they score!!

Now, does that happen in real life? Apart from Man Utd!

1. I agree with you on this one. It seems all too easy for a winger or full back to just gallop up the wing and put a cross in as the opposing players run sideways at an angle and gradually get further away from them.

Are you watching the full game? How do you know it's easy for them to gallop? If you're like me you're just watching the highlights. They are just that: "highlights". Maybe, for most of the game, they didn't manage any of that?

I also see that the percentage (game stats) of crosses is almost always very low. So, it doesn't seem that there are many successful crosses, actually?

yeah and after losing the game, the news will say that my team were brushed aside by the superior team and it makes me wanna **** on the guys head who wrote that. And what irks me more is the team that beat me loses the next game to a mediocre team from the league and im like wtf. when i used to play fm 05-08, i used to lose to the bigger or rival teams at first but i soon get the upper hand as my team settles in and gets used to my tactics and i acquire better players that i can beat them but now its practically impossible although i have seen people posting images of their teams thrashing the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool.

Are you watching the full game? How do you know it's easy for them to gallop? If you're like me you're just watching the highlights. They are just that: "highlights". Maybe, for most of the game, they didn't manage any of that?

I also see that the percentage (game stats) of crosses is almost always very low. So, it doesn't seem that there are many successful crosses, actually?

I watch the game Extended not highlights. I don't watch the full game either because it will take a lot of time.

But if you watch it in Extended, you will realise how great wingers/full backs (when attacking) are & how often crosses hit other players as others have also mentioned.

One particular useful point mentioned earlier is that IRL, when fullbacks close down wingers, the wingers don't just try to cross it & whatever happens, happens! No they go back & pass it to midfielders etc. Im not saying that IRL crosses never hit defenders, far from it. But in FM09 it's too far-fetched .... so many crosses hitting defenders. So many!

CobainK, I'm not sure about the technical detail, I was only trying to explain how I see things happening in real life. I'll let someone else with more exact information about the technical explain this. I'm quite sure that 1-2 minutes isn't always enough to make sure everyone is ready for a substitution. Sometimes you also see a subtitution not being made exactly when the managers want, because the referee decides to let play continue.

Technically, I don't see how it's possible for the game to make the changes live, since it will have to interrupt moment of play that are already calculated and a being carried out. I also doubt the that the effect of some silly manager shouting on the sidelines will ever be as great as the effect of any tactical change you make in FM is. In that way you also have to weigh gameplay and realism. Keep in mind that a manager in real life would have to get in touch with the players on the field, who will often be in the middle of something if there is heavy action on the field, which is just one of the things making instant tactical changes more difficult in real life.

ok, it happened to me again. My juventus side is going against udinese. im using 4-4-2 while they are use 3-4-3. Guess wad?? they are dominating with super human capabilities. one of their players scored with a header soo powerful that its more powerful than my strikers shooting. their passing is soo fast and accurate that whenever they kick and i mean kick it finds another of their own players(deadly accuracy). my team keep giving the ball away and i dont know why(maybe theyre scared) and whenever my player close them down they glide through like a hot knife on butter but whenever my players have the ball, they hunt him down like a pack of dogs and usually get the ball. that f'ing unrealistic for you.

I didn't fail to notice the 4-2-4 amazing tactic, how can you not notice it anyway? & I do try to counter against it. But, unfortunately, in FM09 the AI 4-2-4 is flawless!! Well, the only thing in FM09 that is flawless in fact!!! Whatever you do, you almost (please note almost) never manage to counter this tactic & more often than not, they score!!

Now, does that happen in real life? Apart from Man Utd!

Sorry that's not true, the 424 is nowhere near flawless, in fact it's pretty flawed on their behalf if you counter it.

Carragher is stupid?! hehe yea right ... he's one of the best defenders in England, if not the best!

Ask Capello ... how much he wishes he hadn't retired from International Football!

I didn't fail to notice the 4-2-4 amazing tactic, how can you not notice it anyway? & I do try to counter against it. But, unfortunately, in FM09 the AI 4-2-4 is flawless!! Well, the only thing in FM09 that is flawless in fact!!! Whatever you do, you almost (please note almost) never manage to counter this tactic & more often than not, they score!!

Now, does that happen in real life? Apart from Man Utd!

4-2-4 is flawless? I think not.

People playing the game so fast to get through games then saying they've no time to adjust their tactics, well whose fault is that, the AI or the bloke who set the slider to play the game at a high speed

It cracks me up what some people post. Sometimes you need to take a look at reality, and think why is this happening, why does it happen so quick. I say this in jest because sometimes the pain seems self inflicted

How about the following. Its not going to work everytime, it doesn't irl but some suggestions:

when 1 or 2 up slow the game speed down with 15 mins to go so you can see and react to oppostion player and formation changes

defensive arrows on all back four pointing behind them

no team creativity, set it back to the left so the players do exactly what you tell them

deep defensive line

closing down inside own half

time wasting

tall strikers marking tall men at set pieces and corners

counter attacking

playing a 5 man midfield with 5 across the line

lone striker closing down keeper, and centrebacks

target direct/long passing down the wings e.g. hoofs from defence toward the corner flags

I'm sure there a plenty more

I've not any UEFA Coaching badges so do some of these tactics seem valid, worth trying out ???