'Mistake Leading to Goal'

[iamjerome]

what is the definition of a 'mistake' in this stat? is it a mistake leading to a CCC? or something way more lax. i ask because

i was just clicking around players and i'd noticed that giorgio chiellini (a pretty good defender some might say) had made 1/11!!!! mistakes leading to goal (of course only 1 was a goal, but 11 mistakes! 11) in 2(1) appearances.

somewhat startled by this, i decided to investigate a bit:
looking at my own centre backs first of all;
thiago silva 21 in 6
maldini 10 in 3
kaladze 11 in 3


went over to top defenders in inter / juve;
cordoba 18 in 7
materazzi 3 in 5....
legrottaglie 22 in 8
chiellini 11 in 2(1)

decided to load up my other games for further cross references (and realised my spurs / napoli game were in july 09 so only had man city midway through 09/10 to provide further info):
micah richards 82! in 20 (none of them lead to a goal somehow though)
zapata 56 in 19

other teams:
ferdinand 75 in 21
vidic 51 in 18(2)
gallas 66 in 17(2)
toure 93 in 24
terry 68 in 26
carvalho 55 in 18(2)
carragher 64 in 22
agger 78 in 17(2)


aggregates:
in my italian game, 95 mistakes were made in a total of 34(1) appearances
english: 688 mistakes in 183(8)

italy - 95/35 = 2.7
england - 688/191 = 3.6

this would make sense. italian football involves a lot less hounding so mistakes logically would be in lesser numbers to top level english defenders.

but does it really make sense that the best centre backs in the world give such high numbers of mistakes away PER game? am i being deluded in my perception of football here? it could very well be that the definition of 'mistakes' is pretty lax and as such the stats are a bit higher than they would be if it was for say, leading to a CCC ; it seems pretty ludicrous to suggest any of those defenders make 3 crucial mistakes per game. only a ludicrously poor % seem to be capitalised on (forgot to take note of exact numbers, but the aggregate o all 226 matches was no way above 20) so i assume it doesn't lead to a CCC. but do the mistakes include 'match engine' bugs? youknow, when you're defender picks up the ball and refuses to do anything with it long enough for an opposition forward to dispossess him?

[ubos]

If it is mistake leading to goal, then a goal has to be scored before the mistake is counted?

Not sure with this statistic, never noticed it before, but it's incredible that Chiellini can make 11 mistakes in 3 appearances. Perhaps they just mean mistakes with interception that leads to a shot on goal?

But then again, the term mistake leading to goal is misleading if the opposition did not score from your defender's mistakes.

[iamjerome]

well, the stat is given as mistakes leading to goal x / y, where x is amount of goals that were scored.

[mcrc10]

Good thread JamJerome, I was wondering about this myself. Over a season Ive noticed my defenders make a huge number of mistakes. I didnt know if this was because of the players or the tactics. Although I had Jeremie Mathieu and he made 130 or so errors and yet won European Defender of the Year

[squinty]

just had a look at this on my save after reading this post, i've got Pepe and Garay as my centre backs at Real Madrid, it's 02/01/2010 and they've made 119 mistakes in 29 games between them ( Pepe 69 & Garay 50 ) but thankfully none these have lead to a goal.

A defensive pairing of Titus Bramble & Zat Knight wouldn't have that many errors in 29 games.

i just wished my strikers could score at the other end.....

[Bumblefoot]

A defensive pairing of Titus Bramble & Zat Knight wouldn't have that many errors in 29 games.

i just wished my strikers could score at the other end.....

I know the feeling!

Hopefully this is another thing that the new patch will sort out. Does anyone know if the new patch will mean starting a new game or is it possible to continue your 9.1 game after installing the 9.2 patch?

[iamjerome]

well, we don't know if this is a fault of the match engine yet! and we won't until we have a definition of the word 'mistake' here

[auto98uk]

COuld it not just be say passes gone astray etc?

[iamjerome]

passes going astray in the penalty box or without no one behind you for example would be a pretty atrocious mistake.... (and one we see far too often in this game)

[Sy13]

Finish the immortal line.... It's your.... ???

[RobinGoodey]

Seriously - you're complaining that your team makes 3 (ish) mistakes per game?????

How many shots do teams get per game? Maybe 10 on average? How many of those goal scoring chances come about purely through the skill of the opponents, without any errors (however minor) from the defending team? Answer - pretty much zero.

eg: Winger runs down the byline, crosses, and the striker scores. Possible mistakes: Someone not marking the winger tightly enough to stop him receiving the ball, someone not tackling him before he can set off on the run, someone not closing him down enough to block the cross, your DC not being in the right position to make a clearing header, your keeper not rushing out to punch / catch the ball before the FC makes the goalscoring header!

So potentially 5/6 mistakes just in one spell of play. And a spell of play that leads to a goal. What about the time where a mistake is made early in the build up (eg a missed interception as a pass is played to the winger) where someone else makes the covering tackle and blocks the cross? There's no problem with the team play - but it would count as a mistake.

3-ish mistakes by your defence per game IMO is LOW, not high!

[Amaroq]

Yeah, yeah. He's got a point, actually; I find that if my defenders' Mentality is set too low, they are more likely to make mistakes.

However, there are several other things it could be.

Mental attributes such as Composure and Decisions obviously come into play.

If your team-talks are placing too much pressure on your defenders, then they are more likely to make mistakes; just as there are some strikers who respond best to "No pressure", there are some defenders who need that team talk as well.

[brightonrock]

Its the definition of mistakes that makes the figure so high. Any give-away of possession counts, every header they don't win etc, or at least it seems so. I had a game today when my defender threw himself and landed a diving header off the line from a corner, it went fully 25 yards and their midfielder lashed it in on the half volley. The commentary said 'his poor clearance led to the goal' and his rating dropped to 4.8. I mean a full length diving header off the line, well out of the box, and somehow its his fault???? How about the fact its impossible to mark the man on the edge of the box from corners? Near/far post and tall/short players are covered but where's the 'stick with the dude who will inevitably collect the clearance and break the net with a goal from his TNT-fired, 5-long-shots, weaker foot'?

[iamjerome]

Seriously - you're complaining that your team makes 3 (ish) mistakes per game?????

How many shots do teams get per game? Maybe 10 on average? How many of those goal scoring chances come about purely through the skill of the opponents, without any errors (however minor) from the defending team? Answer - pretty much zero.

eg: Winger runs down the byline, crosses, and the striker scores. Possible mistakes: Someone not marking the winger tightly enough to stop him receiving the ball, someone not tackling him before he can set off on the run, someone not closing him down enough to block the cross, your DC not being in the right position to make a clearing header, your keeper not rushing out to punch / catch the ball before the FC makes the goalscoring header!

So potentially 5/6 mistakes just in one spell of play. And a spell of play that leads to a goal. What about the time where a mistake is made early in the build up (eg a missed interception as a pass is played to the winger) where someone else makes the covering tackle and blocks the cross? There's no problem with the team play - but it would count as a mistake.

3-ish mistakes by your defence per game IMO is LOW, not high!

except your definition of a mistake is ******** there. ALL the 'mistakes' you list there could well be due to a/ winger turning too quick b/ winger's dribbling / pace is too good c/ see past two d/ striker could have obscene jumping+heading etc etc etc.

one would presume with a stat titled 'mistakes leading to goal' it would ONLY be CRITICAL mistakes such as missing a simple interception that gives a forward a free run at goal, passing sideways to another defender and an opposition forward picks up again - do you see what i'm getting at? an 'unforced error' as it would be called in tennis, i suppose. a mistake DIRECTLY giving the opposition a chance to score, as opposed to your examples which aren't quite what i mean.

of course i could be wrong and 'mistakes leading to goals' could have an utterly stupid definition as you defined it there and then maybe yes, 3 per game IS too little. but 3 critical errors is pretty ludicrous i think.

[iamjerome]

Its the definition of mistakes that makes the figure so high. Any give-away of possession counts, every header they don't win etc, or at least it seems so. I had a game today when my defender threw himself and landed a diving header off the line from a corner, it went fully 25 yards and their midfielder lashed it in on the half volley. The commentary said 'his poor clearance led to the goal' and his rating dropped to 4.8. I mean a full length diving header off the line, well out of the box, and somehow its his fault???? How about the fact its impossible to mark the man on the edge of the box from corners? Near/far post and tall/short players are covered but where's the 'stick with the dude who will inevitably collect the clearance and break the net with a goal from his TNT-fired, 5-long-shots, weaker foot'?

well, the game obviously recognised that as a 'clearance' that went straight to the opposition who scored directly from said clearance...... whereas i am 100% sure 'every header they don't win' etc does not count to 'mistakes that lead to goal' unless of course it's missing a header aka interception then a forward picks up the ball and is through on goal.