Would you be happy if SI 'optimised/fixed' Football Manager for 2010...

[lukekarts]

But didn't add any major new features?

This is not aimed as a complaint topic about FM09, but I feel the general consensus is:

- The game is getting slower to play
- There is a large amount of "clutter" and little option to turn it off
- There are increasing numbers of bugs (which are fixed retrospectively)
- New features are added but nobody ever feels their potential is fully realised.

Now, in my opinion, I would be very happy if SI spent the next 12 months, continually improving and optimising the features we have, fixing bugs, and allowing a greater degree of flexibility (maybe adding basic training regimes, giving us the option to turn off features such as press conferences etc).

I don't feel the game is really desperate for any new features, and a lot of opinion floating around the forums suggests the game is becoming too complex.

What are your thoughts?

[martplfc1]

An improved match engine would do me, don't know if that counts as a new feature or not.

[dannysheard]

But didn't add any major new features?

This is not aimed as a complaint topic about FM09, but I feel the general consensus is:

- The game is getting slower to play
- There is a large amount of "clutter" and little option to turn it off
- There are increasing numbers of bugs (which are fixed retrospectively)
- New features are added but nobody ever feels their potential is fully realised.

Now, in my opinion, I would be very happy if SI spent the next 12 months, continually improving and optimising the features we have, fixing bugs, and allowing a greater degree of flexibility (maybe adding basic training regimes, giving us the option to turn off features such as press conferences etc).

I don't feel the game is really desperate for any new features, and a lot of opinion floating around the forums suggests the game is becoming too complex.

What are your thoughts?

No doubt about it. If they just spent a year perfecting what was there already, it would absolutely brilliant!!!!

[CrashOverride]

Yeah I would be quite happy with that!!! May give SI a breather to perfect 2011 as well!

[The Gaffovski]

Yes. At this point, a (major) bug-free release would be a new feature anyway. :-)

And I don't mean to rub it in. It's just the way circumstances have caused it to be so far. It's a complicated program with a lot of variables.

Nevertheless, one major "new" thing FM needs is (much) better sound, along with optimizing all the potential FM 2009 has. If re-vamped sound could be the "goodie" for FM 2010 I'd be very happy. You know, team chants and the like. Crowd shouting "off, off" etc. Heck, why not some bagpipes/drums/steel drums/etc playing in the background in some matches? Ambience! At present, it continues to be very dull. I reckon this is one thing that needs a complete makeover.

[jod123]

I would agree with this but then people would be complaining "It is the same game. It needs change".

[auto98uk]

For me, 08 was the fastest version of all, with 09 slightly slower

However, i get the feeling that people are forgetting how slow it used to be prior to 08

[Fieldsy]

SI is a business...first and foremost. In that respect they have to add more features to sell the new game and keep ahead of the competition. Every year they do iron out bugs previously - the transfer system this year is one such example.

[Wakers]

Yes - absolutely. It needs to be done imo - because if they just pack more features in next year, this game will have major, mjaor issues.

And ehm, this new transfer system is just as bad as the old one, its not fixed at all.

Also - FM07 was not at all slow, even on the old computer I had at the time - FM09 is by far the slowest the game has been since it changed to FM.

The new features for next year could be improved sound and patching up the 3d engine to make it look prettier - that way you only have the graphics team + sound people working on new features and the majority of the coders working on optimising the game.

That being said, I have no idea how many programmers/graphics people SI employ.

[Amaroq]

I vote "No" - abandoning features entirely? That threatens sales, which may already be tight next year considering the global economic slowdown.

I do expect to see improvements made, from Confidence to 3-D to the match engine, but I think that's a part of the release problem.

[lukekarts]

That would be the concern.

Obviously I'm not affiliated with SI but I'm interested to see people's responses. SI have a very active forum here and do well to cope with the level of requests / problems / challenges reported.

I think it would useful for people to see what people really do want going forwards, and whether new features are considered more important than getting what we've already got perfected...

[VonBlade]

I can't imagine anyone would vote no.

@ Jod (and anyone else who feels that SI have to provide a large new feature list). I disagree. So many features in FM are half or even quarter-baked. Giving a multitude of new options in the media and staff/player interaction options would be a major, 3D level, feature improvement for them to laud.

Furthermore a complete lack of new features is no barometer of sales anyway. As EA prove with their Madden franchise that's just got worse and worse each year yet continues to sell enormous quantities. Gears of War 2 isn't exactly different from it's predecessors. Gran Turismo is always more of the same.

So properly implementing the features that are in the game, whilst giving it a comprehensive optimisation program, would easily be sufficient for me to throw off my relentless cynicism and laud SI.
VB

[leedsforever]

09 is the worst version of FM I've played and I've been playing it since CM3.

[damienroden]

I voted no, it isn't fair to pay for a patch. They should patch FM09 until it works for everyone.

[oescus]

I [what a dreadfully unimportant word] would like to see whatever SI decide is best for the game, because I [that word again]am 100% sure that SI and all of us sad people, who do not reside in the real world, all want the same thing. Kind regards to all.

[Yasko75]

If they removed the slider system and fixed the match engine i would no doubt buy next year.

I have almost never used new "features" like team talks or press conferances anyway. Hell, if they realese a version where they remove some features like those two, it will be a huge bonus.... :-P

[Wakers]

There's another problem with they way they implement new features - it always seems to take three releases for them to be right.

[lukekarts]

I voted no, it isn't fair to pay for a patch.

It wouldn't be paying for a patch.

We'll get critical things in a patch. Next November, you'd see massive improvements to what we already have, optimised, and with the best database in the world once again.

[ANDEHLSON]

While I dont agree that the transfer system is "just as bad as the old one" I agree that the game should just be optimized for next year's version. If most of the problems arent solved for 2010, they ll just keep pilling up until you need like 5 patches before December.

And btw the slowest FM of all time award should go to... FM05 -.-

[Dicko99]

You get the feeling spending 12 months working on this game it would still be released with bugs. All that will happen for FM10 is adding new features to 3d and a data update.

[dave byrd]

09 is the worst version of FM I've played and I've been playing it since CM3.

err what about CM4? i Doubt anyone would agree that CM4 was better than FM09!

[Ando THFC]

Properly implemented team talks, media modules, tactics and transfer systems would be like new features.

[SmurfDude]

Properly implemented team talks, media modules, tactics and transfer systems would be like new features.

I'd agree with this. Press conferences need to be vastly improved i.e have many, many more questions/answers so they don't become repetitive within the first few weeks. Also make tone down the frequency of them

Team talks need more options too, and need to be more intuitive

Tactics don't need a complete overhaul, but making them more user-friendly so we actually understand them better would please a hell of alot of people

There's no point in keep adding new features if the ones currently in the game aren't very good

[jack.browne]

The thing is, they will never be able to create the perfect game. There will always be bugs!

[JimmyIOCS]

As the poll says, most people would obviously rather have a game with less problems than new features, but how would SI market it? The marketing for each new addition is based on new features.

Unfortunately, this game isn't art, they aren't interested in making a masterpiece, they are interested in making money.

[baker.simon]

I would agree with this but then people would be complaining "It is the same game. It needs change".

Completely agree, would virtually guarantee this forum would be full of people "livid" because it wouls appear they have just paid for a patch.

09 is the worst version of FM I've played and I've been playing it since CM3.

Very constructive! Any reasoning? Ans why do people feel the need to bleet about how long they have been playing the game?

You get the feeling spending 12 months working on this game it would still be released with bugs. All that will happen for FM10 is adding new features to 3d and a data update.

I agree, to an extent. You may find its SEGA that actually want a new release every year! Im sure if SI were allowed to skip a year they would just continue and make 09 better such is their love of the game! Its just SEGA being greedy i feel, and exploiting the fact there are people who buy the game every year regardless!

[Dicko99]

exploiting the fact there are people who buy the game every year regardless!

yeh people like me... i must be too soft

[baker.simon]

yeh people like me... i must be too soft

And me, cant help myself! Like an old man in a knicker shop lol!

[VonBlade]

The thing is, they will never be able to create the perfect game. There will always be bugs!

ARC System Works would beg to differ. I can't think of many Square and Capcom games that are buggy.

[Bongo-Bongo]

It wouldn't be paying for a patch.

We'll get critical things in a patch. Next November, you'd see massive improvements to what we already have, optimised, and with the best database in the world once again.

Even with several new features added each year , there are still a lot of people of complain that they feel like they are just paying for a patch so without any new features whatsoever, these complaints will just shoot up.

Realistically, you need a good mixture of both new features and more polish. Without either, there is a high chance that the reputation of the game will be damaged and future sales will suffer. Neglecting new features just isn't a realistic option IMO.

[Wakers]

reputation gets damaged more by releasing buggy game after buggy game than just releasing one version which doesn't add many new features.

[Berrern]

However, i get the feeling that people are forgetting how slow it used to be prior to 08

I didn't play 08 (apart from the demo), but I've played hundreds of seasons on 07.
At least on my computer, 07 was WAY faster than 09. This could have something to do with me having a single core CPU, mind you..

I'm not necessarily complaining about the speed in 09 though (it's normal for games to evolve and need more computer power to run swiftly), I just disagree with your statement that it was slow prior to 08.

[Nomis07]

No I wouldn't. I expect FM09 to be a finished product after the second patch, so I expect FM10 to build on that finished product rather than rebox it.

[peter-evo]

No I wouldn't. I expect FM09 to be a finished product after the second patch, so I expect FM10 to build on that finished product rather than rebox it.

I agree with this, this game won't sell if it just fixes the bugs. We need new/improved features, otherwise SI will lose alot of customers.

[Lyssien]

Merely fixing stuff for a new version doesn't make sense commercially. Also, since the 3D is new (and very promising and exciting, I might add) in the series, it wouldn't make sense for SI to go slow right now. This is the time to run!

[Dicko99]

it wouldn't make sense for SI to go slow right now.

it would to me, and if they look at this poll (which they wont or will but ignore) they will realise that this is what the majority would like them to do. But they just see ££££

[peter-evo]

it would to me, and if they look at this poll (which they wont or will but ignore) they will realise that this is what the majority would like them to do. But they just see ££££

To be fair, they are on here alot and their 3D decision was made because of (or partly because of) a poll that we took part in. Of course they want money but they care about making us happy, that is why they were up until the early hours on the 14th November, trying to help us with our problems.

[CHARLIERODD]

I voted fix the bugs, but really I would just like the match engine improved. AND NO BUGS OR ACTIVATION ISSUES!

[Dicko99]

I would just like the match engine improved.

so would i. this is the most important part of the game (and really needs alot of work i know) but htey seem to miss things every year.

[JimmyIOCS]

To be fair, they are on here alot and their 3D decision was made because of (or partly because of) a poll that we took part in. Of course they want money but they care about making us happy, that is why they were up until the early hours on the 14th November, trying to help us with our problems.

I'm not having a go at SI (Not this second anyway) but they did that because it's their job and the problems reflected awfully on the company so it needed to be sorted asap. I don't think they would have done the same out of the goodness of their hearts.

I'm sure they want to make a game they are proud of, but to say they care about the fans is probably not accurate.

[Wakers]

I have to say im delighted at the poll results so far.

[peter-evo]

I'm not having a go at SI (Not this second anyway) but they did that because it's their job and the problems reflected awfully on the company so it needed to be sorted asap. I don't think they would have done the same out of the goodness of their hearts.

I'm sure they want to make a game they are proud of, but to say they care about the fans is probably not accurate.

Matt (from Sega) was helping me with finding updates for my drivers and downloading SDK thing. I think they are a great help

Wakers: Why are you delighted?

[bean824]

I'm not happy for this to happen for 2010. I want to see it happening as soon as this new patch. As I stand at the moment, I'm not buying FM10.

And I voted for them to fix the bugs for 2010. Anyone who doesn't is foolish.

[Kewell08]

So, bean, you say you're not happy for 2010 to be just a bug fix... but you voted for that? A bit confused.

[Wakers]

Because the number of people that want an optimisation of the code and bug fixes is far greater than the number for new features.

[peter-evo]

Because the number of people that want an optimisation of the code and bug fixes is far greater than the number for new features.

That delights you? Well I kind of was in the middle for the poll. I only want new features if current ones are fixed.

[Wakers]

It does because I thought i was in the minority of wanting the game fixed :P

[peter-evo]

It does because I thought i was in the minority of wanting the game fixed :P

Have you seen the amount of moaner threads today?

[Fallout Man]

How about new FM every two years? There would be about 6-8 data updates/patches in two year time. SI should try that. Atleast they would finally complete one FM.

[karlrobertuk]

Lets see what this new patch fixes, then we can all have our moans, but the game is 1st one i have played non stop for a long time....its not perfect but it is a lot better then any other similar game on the market......, come on boys what would you rather being playing.....

[Whatever FFS]

Next year would be a bad time to attempt this as the economic crisis throughout the world will probably impact sales.

A huge reduction in sales will also be because of the effect of the DRM fiasco with the launch of FM2009 even if they do not use any form of DRM for FM2010 as the thousands of customers who got burnt will be wary of being affected again.

The danger is that SI / Sega will not learn the lesson that it is a bad business practise to treat your paying customers as pirates and make them endure the negative consequences of DRM and will instead blame the world economic crisis.

(OTT) On a more positive note I would recommend everyone who loathes DRM to purchase the new Ubisoft title Prince of Persia as they have taken the bold step of releasing it with no form of DRM which is a major shift in thinking as previous releases from this publisher have had draconian DRM.

[lukekarts]

I have to say I'm surprised at the overwhelming support agreeing with this suggestion.

Just how representative is this forum of the average FM buyer??

[damienroden]

Next year would be a bad time to attempt this as the economic crisis throughout the world will probably impact sales.

A huge reduction in sales will also be because of the effect of the DRM fiasco with the launch of FM2009 even if they do not use any form of DRM for FM2010 as the thousands of customers who got burnt will be wary of being affected again.

The danger is that SI / Sega will not learn the lesson that it is a bad business practise to treat your paying customers as pirates and make them endure the negative consequences of DRM and will instead blame the world economic crisis.

(OTT) On a more positive note I would recommend everyone who loathes DRM to purchase the new Ubisoft title Prince of Persia as they have taken the bold step of releasing it with no form of DRM which is a major shift in thinking as previous releases from this publisher have had draconian DRM.

People will probaly spend more on games, it is better to spend £30 on a game and play it for a few months than to spend £30 on a night out.

That is suicide from Ubisoft, may as well hand the game to the pirates.

[lukekarts]

People will probaly spend more on games, it is better to spend £30 on a game and play it for a few months than to spend £30 on a night out.

That is suicide from Ubisoft, may as well hand the game to the pirates.

I disagree. Pretty much every game that has been released with DRM has been pirated before it has even hit the shops on the release date.

[dannysheard]

I voted no, it isn't fair to pay for a patch. They should patch FM09 until it works for everyone.

Are you THE Damien Roden? Tried to get you on my staff a few times, but you are always happy at your new club!

[CaptainPlanet]

The thing is, despite the bugs, there hasn't been a general drop in consumer confidence in the FM series of products. They are continuing to sell well and from all the indications given so far FM09 has been no different. A few loyal fans and forumites who are a bit peeved have stuck with an older version, but the vast vast majority of players have bought FM09 and will most likely buy FM10.

I don't think it will make any difference to sales if they work on optimising what is already in place, or adding a raft of new features, the series speaks for itself and will continue to sell well (providing patches continue to fix the major bugs).

I have voted for optimisation for FM10, I'm not too fussed about the majority of the features but the match engine needs to be a priority, for at least one years development. It needs to encompass all of the existing features into it correctly and well balanced (such as team talks, morale, player individual skill, tactics etc.) and from what I've seen and experienced this is far from where it should be.

I would then ask that when the match engine is as optimised as it can be, that it's left alone and just moved over to the next version, future versions can focus on many other things (such as UI improvements, match day experience, graphics etc.) but keep the fundemental way that matches are calculated the same, the constant re-learning of how the match engine works for me is the biggest frustration.

[Majkee]

It should be optimized in 2010.
It needs optimization of tactics, trainings, ME, 3D and may be computing match result from around the world. I want only few new additions if necessary
However, optimization is really needed.

[CaptainPlanet]

I disagree. Pretty much every game that has been released with DRM has been pirated before it has even hit the shops on the release date.

Didn't happen with FM09, the only pirated version was an extended version of the Demo which had limited features and no patch.

[Les Girondins]

I disagree. Pretty much every game that has been released with DRM has been pirated before it has even hit the shops on the release date.

With differing degrees of success ...

I won't deny that I have seen 99% of games on TPB or similar usually on a RELOADED release a few months down the line, that work perfectly and have had all impediments to update/execution removed or bypassed.

But from the publisher's point of view, the game is usually in the bargain bin by then anyway.

DRM, if it works or not, provides an initial incentive to go buy the real game and not muck around trying to patch and undermine activation/easter eggs/copy protection etc.

Once the inital frenzy is over, nobody really cares tbh ..

Its like renting a movie from 2006 vs going to see the latest in the local cinema. One profits residually and at a much lower level than the other and so the emphasis is on NOT leaking the screener to the net until a week in to release (ideally a couple of months).

Basically DRM is damage limitation. Which I do not object to ..

What turns me sour is the invasion of my privacy, the constant checks on my usage and 'phone home' software reporting my IP address and who knows what else to the mother ship at Corporate Sinister HQ. I also do not like the clenching sphincter of end user rights - it will soon get to the point whereby you are buying only the media spin and the end product is a sack of poo not worth booting up. With no come back, no sales of goods act and no refunds a-la Steam etc.

When that's the case, I'll probably be on the other side of the fence.

[Wakers]

Ubisoft will benefit from that, believe me

[Draakon]

Let's be clear on one thing: 90% of serious bugs that ruin your game are somehow connected to match engine. Players do some things too often or ingore your orders or acting stupid on pitch etc.

I feel that in this point, with FM 09, FM-series match engine is in major basic points as it should be. It means that principally it would be mistake to rebuild ME from clean sheet for FM 10. Instead, they should focus to give ME a bit fine tuning and remove all bugs and errors from it. Otherwise we would have new ME each year with stupid flaws and bugs and the fans are never happy.


More features are necessary to constant development, but in other areas. In FM 09 media and press conferences are well developed, compared to previous versions. No perhaps training ? Scouting ? Man management ? Areas that doesn't directly influent the game itself (although may do that through players confidence and squad morale), but would expand manager-experience and add depth to the game.

So in overall I think that the idea is fair and reasonable.

[Wakers]

I can't agree that press conferences are well developed :P it's a very half-assed feature at the moment. But i agree - to be honest, they should have gotten the match engine in a better state than it is now after all these releases.

But its not just the match engine - the game lacks a lot of polish in many areas.

That IGN US review may have missed the point of the game, but what the review did highlight is just how rough around the edges the game is. The tactics are not intuitive at all. The sliders are too complex and do not always do what you would expect them to, and they interact in ways that are never explained in game.

The same for training - no advice, no suggestions, just 'here's a big screen, do what you want and assign who you like to coaching roles, and good luck" - did anyone know how to get 7* coaches before it was posted on the forum?

[rhysisonfire]

No, more features please. It would just be like releasing a patch rather than a new game.

[Wakers]

No, more features please. It would just be like releasing a patch rather than a new game.

even if the new features don't work properly and the match engine is still buggy? I struggle to understand why people have this point of view. What's the point of adding stuff to a game that's struggling to cope with what's already there?

[rhysisonfire]

Because people would stop buying the game, they'd get bored of two years of playing exactly the same game with the same features.

[CaptainPlanet]

Because people would stop buying the game, they'd get bored of two years of playing exactly the same game with the same features.

What utter utter unsubstantiated rubbish.

[rhysisonfire]

I for one wouldn't get bored, I'm just thinking of the market general.

[Dicko99]

Because people would stop buying the game, they'd get bored of two years of playing exactly the same game with the same features.

look at the poll

[CaptainPlanet]

I for one wouldn't get bored, I'm just thinking of the market general.

And you'd be very very wrong.

[rhysisonfire]

Okay, re-thinking it, I would like the bugs to be fixed, but there must be new features to. I mean, what else are we going to moan about?

[Wakers]

Because people would stop buying the game, they'd get bored of two years of playing exactly the same game with the same features.

look at the poll.

People still buy Fifa, Pes etc year in year out.

[sylane93]

Don't mind fixing it in 2010, what about 2009 first. Fix it in the patch!!!!

[ANDEHLSON]

And you'd be very very wrong.

Let's hope so... I know a few people IRL who just look at the "shiny new features", mostly people who have never read the forums..

But there is always the name.. FM10 might sound good enough for a lot of people so hopefully they could forget about the "shiny new features"...

[Wakers]

Let's hope so... I know a few people IRL who just look at the "shiny new features", mostly people who have never read the forums..

But there is always the name.. FM10 might sound good enough for a lot of people so hopefully they could forget about the "shiny new features"...

There are plenty of people who don't visit the forums that don't like this version because of how buggy and slow it is, too.

[rhysisonfire]

Don't mind fixing it in 2010, what about 2009 first. Fix it in the patch!!!!

Which was my point. I suppose we'd still have the weather to moan about.

[CaptainPlanet]

It's perfectly feasible to improve and optimise what already exists and tout it as a feature as part of the marketing.

"All new intuitive tactics - Understand how to create a winning formation and take your team to glory"
"Increased assistant manager feedback - Find out where you're going wrong"
"All new improved 3D match engine - For a fantastic matchday experience!"

[Wakers]

Which was my point. I suppose we'd still have the weather to moan about.

Ah ha, now I understand your opinion - you see this as moaning. Which it isn't, moaning implies its unfounded/pointless.

Fact is, the quality of the game is gradually going downhill, and has been since FM07 - to the point now where SI are relying on patches to fix bigger and bigger problems.

[Wakers]

It's perfectly feasible to improve and optimise what already exists and tout it as a feature as part of the marketing.

"All new intuitive tactics - Understand how to create a winning formation and take your team to glory"
"Increased assistant manager feedback - Find out where you're going wrong"
"All new improved 3D match engine - For a fantastic matchday experience!"

Yea, exactly. This is what Fifa/Pes do each year.

[cornwallgunner]

The first priority for FM10 should be:

More stable
Less bugs
New skin
Faster
Less match day screens
Refined 3D (if kept)

I would buy Fm10 with no additional feature if SI can pull those things off I'd be delighted.

[X8 DRU]

I agree just fix the bugs, may be enhance the 3d match engine and make the thing run as fast as possible!

In future once they have spent a year sorting out the bugs and making it run as fast as poss, only two new things i would like to see. Well not new just a slight addition to current features!!!!!

I would really like to be able to place the players anywhere i wanted to on the tactics screen! like on Fifa or Pro Ev. Coz say i want to play 4-3-3, but i want the 2 players off of 1 main striker (AKA Chelsea). the only way you can do it is by having them wide which means your lone striker is too isolated or in the middle which means your team lacks width! Therefore I would like to see (if not tactics like fifa) more choice in relation to player positions like Atticking Mid Left / Right Centre, just one in from the current LW and RW but not as central as CAM. I hope this makes sense.

I know this has nothing to do with the current forum and its not something FM would need to do str8 away. But has anyway played ultimate team on Fifa 09? i really like the team chem on that, each player has prefered formations, positions and players. which all add to your overall team chem and how well they play together thus increasing your chances of winning. I think it would be great to add into FM, coz they could do it much better and deeper level than fifa and then it would not just be about putting the best 11 players on the park, it would be more about developing and building a team that can play together which may not be the best 11 players. I know some of these features are already in but it doesnt really affect how your teams play and your chances of winning. You can get any 11 players playing together and after a season they have gel'd great! This would be so much more indepth and interesting i think.

[X8 DRU]

Let's be clear on one thing: 90% of serious bugs that ruin your game are somehow connected to match engine. Players do some things too often or ingore your orders or acting stupid on pitch etc.

I feel that in this point, with FM 09, FM-series match engine is in major basic points as it should be. It means that principally it would be mistake to rebuild ME from clean sheet for FM 10. Instead, they should focus to give ME a bit fine tuning and remove all bugs and errors from it. Otherwise we would have new ME each year with stupid flaws and bugs and the fans are never happy.


More features are necessary to constant development, but in other areas. In FM 09 media and press conferences are well developed, compared to previous versions. No perhaps training ? Scouting ? Man management ? Areas that doesn't directly influent the game itself (although may do that through players confidence and squad morale), but would expand manager-experience and add depth to the game.

So in overall I think that the idea is fair and reasonable.

Just like to reply to this! In the match engine players should not always listen to what you tell them and they should do stupid things from time to time! because thats real! real life players constantly make mistakes and mess up! the match engine should not create prefect players.

However i agree that progress has been made in press conferences and team talks etc but it will never been good enough for some people. Yeah defo improve the training, maybe so the training has an impact on the way you play in the match. if you focus on defending then your team will become more solid or you could develop the pass and move style of arsenal etc. be good if style of player, tactics, training, team chemistry were all linked and affected how good your team were and chances of winning etc.

[Slimstevie]

But didn't add any major new features?

This is not aimed as a complaint topic about FM09, but I feel the general consensus is:

- The game is getting slower to play
- There is a large amount of "clutter" and little option to turn it off
- There are increasing numbers of bugs (which are fixed retrospectively)
- New features are added but nobody ever feels their potential is fully realised.

Now, in my opinion, I would be very happy if SI spent the next 12 months, continually improving and optimising the features we have, fixing bugs, and allowing a greater degree of flexibility (maybe adding basic training regimes, giving us the option to turn off features such as press conferences etc).

I don't feel the game is really desperate for any new features, and a lot of opinion floating around the forums suggests the game is becoming too complex.


What are your thoughts?

Only problem is by the looks of it your quite a newbie and havent realised that the Champ/Football Manager collection by SI is traditionally flawed each time with new patches released throughout the year. This will not change as it would take far too long to release each new game. A year after it was made it could be finally released!

Plus it is definitly not too complex and should be more complex. It is afterall supposed to be a Football Management Simulation. Not an easy to play arcade game!

[Slimstevie]

Ah ha, now I understand your opinion - you see this as moaning. Which it isn't, moaning implies its unfounded/pointless.

Fact is, the quality of the game is gradually going downhill, and has been since FM07 - to the point now where SI are relying on patches to fix bigger and bigger problems.

Gradually downhill? It took a massive Nosedive when they released the first FM but it has been steadily improving in quality since then. Yes there are problems in the game with bugs etc but that is the nature of having a game with a kabillion alternative directions you can play the game.

[brightonrock]

With the whole tactical system of FML being redesigned with a view to FM10 (not yet confirmed but possible, if not probable), it seems to me like new features in this sense are already in the offing. The match engine will continue to improve each year and get more complex and realistic, just like other football games. As far as I'm concerned no new "major" features wouldn't be a bad thing, but essentially reproducing FM09 with bug fixes and an updated database or a new skin or whatever would meet with just as much aggression and bile as we saw when 09 came out, so for me the franchise has to keep evolving. Perhaps this time it could be a more gradual change though.

[Fox2k]

Fix the entire transfer system and I mean FIX it. Not just change things around, with it still being as bad as always.

[pearce64]

Generally I am quite please with fm 09. Couple of bugs i am still received i have posted to the bug forum.

Would like to see more stats in the same i.e.

1. For example if a key player has been injured for several matches, how many games did the team win, lose or draw without them in the squad?

2. more Discipline stats

3. TOTAL NUMBER OF PLAYERS USED In all competitions
4. Which players had played every ame etc.

[Wakers]

I don't agree that the match engine has been getting better each year, its just been changed, with new bugs/flaws introduced. The match engine is no more realistic now than it was in FM07. It's just different.

[Champion]

yes, my requests are simple:
- develop the ME
- reduce the CA PA of regens as they are unrealistic currently.

[ReeNah]

I am very happy with the game as it is. I can think of many new things to implement but what exists now is more than enough.

Maybe SI should work in 2 or 3 year cycles? Like introduce new concepts in year one. Upgrade them in the next or next 2 versions and have a wonderful game.

THEN the year after that take a break. Subsequently, release a game that has a totally different spin on it.

Like most people I think working on the game as it is now probably is the best way. Like for example:

- ME graphics (so they look more real)
- Graphics in general (like that post with the guy comparing it to Fifa Manager, should hire him; legend!)
- Press Conferences are no offence pretty poor, and thats being nice... Sorry...
- Transfers are pretty good this year I thought... But maybe needs to be more active, I dont mean just the big spenders but all clubs...

I dunno though new features are always interesting hehe!!!

I put my full faith in SI though, I'm sure they know what they are doing way more then us forumers do!

Thanks SI for listening anyway, kiss kiss some more ass ^^

Cheers,
ReeNah

[Joey22]

I posted a similar thread not too long ago and it got shut down. Improve on the current FM, either way the huge jump from 2-D to 3-D should be more than enough to keep dragging new customers for a few years. That along with a clever marketing campaign and keeping your core fans happy with fewer bugs and polished programming should be enough to increase sales next year.

And perhaps a verbal representation of the tactical interface, not to make it easier just to make it more realistic. I want to be able to think "Carew shouldn't be so high up the pitch" instead of "I should lower his mentality a couple of notches".

[ReeNah]

yes, my requests are simple:
- develop the ME
- reduce the CA PA of regens as they are unrealistic currently.

Just reading the post again and I couldnt stop laughing...

Yes your request is simiply worded but far from a simple problem to solve!!!

Its like "Rain now" or "Stop poverty".

Your a funny guy!!!

Comedy,
ReeNah

[soldierblue123]

I'll be buying FM2010 regardless. However, i'd like to see what we have improved. But you know every year SI throw some surprises our way and we do enjoy them. So even though I want only an improved version of FM2009 I'll be delighted with whatever SI releases.

[Wakers]

Yes, but none of the surprises work properly until the second/third time they're included.

[macdyne73]

I would like to see:-

A further improved match engine and better 3d to go with it. More range of animation is a must.

Better sound.

Better "strategic" AI (transfers, squad maintenance etc). I personally think the AI doesn't do a very good job at keeping and developing good young players and it also releases too many players at the end of a season.

Less bugs obviously.

[LUFC Barmy Army]

i agree totally with this.

Improve the match engine but dont make the actual game too in depth. How it is is working fine, but can be slow for some users with older machines.

[DanGLiverpool]

If FM 2010 was basically 09 with an updated database, and a few bugs changed, none of which are game-breaking (closest being the B team bug, although I believe that this is fixed) I would save my £30, and get a database update off the internet. These ideas come up all the time, but are never going to happen, because they would lose a lot of business.

[baker.simon]

Are people forgetting the contract between SI/SEGA that there will be a release every year? Just wondered as skipping FM10 would never happen, I believe SI have already said this!

[Wakers]

If FM 2010 was basically 09 with an updated database, and a few bugs changed, none of which are game-breaking (closest being the B team bug, although I believe that this is fixed) I would save my £30, and get a database update off the internet. These ideas come up all the time, but are never going to happen, because they would lose a lot of business.

For me, the AI squad management issue is game breaking. I can't believe people say it isn't. You have a realistic first season (apart from stupid, stupid transfers), and then after that, ai squads get smaller and older until they can barely put a team out every week.

Oh, and lets not forget the freezing issue that people are having on mid-high end machines STILL.

[englandmanager]

fix everything that we already have

3D ME could do with some improvement
Press conferences need a new brainless option

[Stomalomalus]

I have been reading through this and have not got to the bottom, so if this haas been said already I apologise.

Have SI not already said that a) there will be no new patch and cannot ever be a patch for FM after the Febuary release due to the teams size and production of the next years game.


b) FM10 will be focusing on the tactics side of the game using the TT&F as a basis for the game.

As things stand, I think thee majority of complaints about the game are due to two things. Bugs specific to certain systems or minute details that are extremely difficult to find and fix, especially if they require 6/7 years of in game time to get to the stage where they even become apparent. And people not understanding the ME and the tactics required to "beat" it.

For the first complaint... It is extremely difficult to pick up on bugs like these with a game that relies so heavily on the timing compared to a real life competition that lasts only 9 months. The game has to be out to give football fans the longest amount of play time whithin a season. This shortens the period of testing. Now, I have heard people say "skip a season". This will not happen as Sega will not allow it. FM is a cash cow, and even if the same game is released with minor cosmetic changes, it will sell millions.

Secondly, I can understand people not fully understanding the ME - football can be a much more complex game than you think. The way I see it, there are two "problems" with the ME in it's current incarnation. Firstly, it relies on an understanding of the mechanics involved. There are no big "shortcuts" that allow you to thrash the oppo everytime like there has been previously ( I have never got more than, say, 15 goals a season with the corner bug). This IMO is a good thing, but results in the "game" becoming less of a game and more of a simulation, which will inevitably drive away some fans. The second problem is the man amanagement of the side. It has been shown IRL that some managers can use their man management skills to turn an average team into an excellent one. This is not really represented in FM. Things like the teamtalk are very rigidd and don't flow. It isn't personal enough. I can't see a way to make this happen, though, so I think we will be left with what we have in this regard.

All in all, FM09 was a big step up in comparison to older versions. FM10 should focus on areas that need work - tactics for one - and begin an overhaul process. Keep the ME. Change one major thing every year, but rotate what is changed.