Constructive feedback.

[Jimbokav1971]

FM Constructive feedback.

So I've been playing a while so I thought now might be a decent time to give some feedback as to what is right and wrong with FM.

Activation issues.

This went so badly that it can't be ignored I'm afraid. It wasn't one issue or issues relating to one particular part of the activation process, it was completely across the board.

-The code on the back of the manual couldn't be read.

-Some of the codes weren't "activated" even when keyed in correctly.

-There was little information beforehand to the uninformed (like me) who ndidn't know what Steam was.

-Significant delays in activation online.

-Phone users couldn't activate their games at all (in some cases for days)..

-The overall instructions/directions in this area were very poor. Quite a few people assumed for some time that they were doing something wrong rather than there being an issue with the process/systems in place.

I think I will leave it at that. It was expected that there were going to be problems in this area, but nowhere as big as the problems that actually occurred.

To end this section on a positive note however, Matt from Sega, (a regular contributor on these forums), seems to be as unhappy as the rest of us about this situation and not only was it he that posted the apology in this forum, but he also seems to be taking a particular interest in this area with regards to the next issue. I don't know what Matt's role in Sega is but it's good to see that the biggest issue with the game, (that I have seen anyway), is being taken seriously by the guys who might be in a position do stop it happening again. Anti-piracy techniques are here to stay so we will just have to get used to them and hiope that Sega/SI can implement them better than they did with this issue.

That's as polite as I can be on this subject and I think I had better leave it there.

3D match engine.

I'm an old buggar and it's hard for me sometimes to work out if I'm typical of the target customer that SI are looking to sell to nowadays. I really liked the 2D representation when it was introduced, (despite the fact the CM4 was an abomination), but within a few games I found myself "binning" the new 3D highlights and resorting to the tried and tested 2D match engine where at least I thought I knew what to look for, (as I tried to work out why my team were so crap).

Now I'm 37 so maybe that's a big part of it. (Let's be honest I would still play the game if it was still cmmentary only), but my 11 year old son has different expectations. He looks at me like I'm mad when I tell him that I used to play the game when it was commentary only and he loved the 3D engine when we first cranked the game up together. He too though has resorted to the 2D highlights as the 3D seemed "jerky and not realistic", (his words).

I guess we will eventually go back and give the 3D highlights another go in the future and it might be just that we prefer what we are used to.

So in summary I would say that the jury still seems to be out on the 3D highlights.

Game-breaking bugs.

There aren't any, (at least none that I have found).

Serious bugs.

I suppose it depends what you class as serious, (and I am only talking about playing in the English structure here), but this area seems pretty minimal. There might be some issues with the way that defenders/GK's deal with long balls, but it looks as if tactical instruction reduces this at lower levels and completely eliminates it in the Premiership.

Long shots is something that others seem to class as a serious bug and I am yet to make up my mind on this. I would agree that long range goals seem to be scored too often in the lower leagues but I would also say that Fat Frank takes many more shots in real life than he does in the game. I suppose it is a balancing act and it's always going to be hard to get the ratios correct when they must always be within the parameters of the correct sort of finishing score-line. In past issues we have had such complaints as "Super GK's" (I always had super GK's in my squads), "1v1's being missed, (never encountered this), and such things as the "corner exploit" which all impacted on fnal score-lines. I suppose the far too high numbers of own goals being scored can also be tied into this.

I still wouldn't even class this as a serious concern, more an area where there is room for improvement.

The one thing in this area that I have encountered that I might class as a serious issue is the regularity with which players are hitting the woodwork with shots. This ties in with the previous two issues though and is obviously not something that is easy to fix.

Minimal bugs.

There do however seem to be a plethora of low level bugs that you would have expected to be elimiated before the game was released.

-Graphical errors on tactical screen when changing tactics during game.

-Graphical errors on 2D match engine where players were in their positions from previous highlight and also new position for new highlight.

-Ass Man not providing feedback in certain circumstances.

-FRED's faces becoming invisible leaving just a football playing hairpiece.

-Penalties being awarded on a regular basis for challenges that seem to be outside the box.

-Issues with unemployed staff not applying for roles at lower level clubs.

-High rep players not willing to drop down the leages towards the end of their careers.

-"Feeder clubs" are still a part of the game when feeder relationships between 2 members of the same FA is outlawed by the FA's of many nations, (including England).

-Lower League salary cap in England not introduced.

-Clubs not enteri ng receivership and being deducted points often enough.

-Arsenal seem significantly over-rated in the game.

-Penalties are only saved when the pen is struck straight at them. It's always been a bit of a weakness in the game but seems to be significantly poorer this year than in previous issues.

Funnies.

I quite like that the SI staff are in the game as FREDs and I love the coach reports that some of them have, but Neil Deijoythn (apologies for the spelling) scoring a brace of penalties against me on his leage debut is a little hard to swallow, especially when Si BHA is in my squad and is carp!

Positives.

It's too early for me to talk in much detail about FRED's, but it is looking good so far.

It's hard.

I know that's not many positives but I am enjoying it. Just not deep enough into the game yet to comment more fully. I really only get into my games after about 5 seasons.

[PAULHOLMES]

Well it's certainly nice to read a constructive feedback post that actually seems to be constructive in spirit, rather than a simple rant.

Having said that, I am not sure what your definition of a game breaking bug is, but for those of us who have been experiencing a crash dump related to a specific date, that certainly seems to meet the definition.

The July crash dump will reportedly be fixed in the next patch, which is good. But I have been unable to get my game past September 5 of the first season... it crashes on that date. I am running only a few top leagues (first division from major european countries, plus brazil and usa); I have posted to the forum and uploaded my save game. No response for a week, so it's hard to know whether it will be addressed.

Btw, I like the 3D more than I expected to, and find it useful in diagnosing formation problems, and I'm quite a bit older than you are.

[CaptainPlanet]

I'll be posting something similar following the release of the next patch, so thanks for starting the ball rolling.

The bugs and feedback you mention, is this "out of the box" or following the first patch?

[Jimbokav1971]

If my game had repeatedly crashed on a given date I would indeed have classed it as a game-breaking bug.

Hasn't crashed once though, so I can't really comment on something that I haven't experienced.

[Jimbokav1971]

It's post-patch by the way.

[chopper99]

Some good points Jimbo.

Activation - I totally agree, this was a bit of a shambles to be honest. I was one of those effected and simply had to wait for a day until the traffic on Steam died down (or whatever the problem was) and then activate the game after that. I think for future versions SI need to be much clearer about the way that the game will need to be activated, and not just on the forums, something needs to be on the box of the game.

But, not only do SI and SEGA seem to have taken this issue very seriously, I also have to commend the sheer number of SI staff who were on the boards on release day trying their best to help people get the game up and running. I'd also have to extend this to the GD moderators. Some of whom, despite being unpaid, were on here until after midnight trying to offer help and advice to frustrated customers.

I personally like the 3D view, there are some graphical issues in it that I'd like to see improved for the next game, but on the whole I think it's a very good first step into 3D.

I also had the issue of regens with no faces and floating hair, but I believe that this has not occurred since I updated my graphics card driver. So I'd recommend giving that a go.

I have three issues with the game currently that affect my enjoyment, and that I'd like to see improved in the future:

1 - The game seems to be poorly optimised and eat up resources on your machine, even without the 3D view running. I can't really understand how FM09, which graphically is quite basic, can require as much processing power as it does compared to other games. I don't think I'll be able to play a save with more than one nation loaded due to the fact that I like to play long term saves and I dread to think how slow that save will get 20 seasons down the line.

2 - Tactics. I know you and I will probably disagree here Jimbo, but I'm very disappointed that the tactical side of the game has not been made more intuative for the user. Whether that be through more useful Ass Man feedback than we currently have, some sort of interactive tutorial, graphical aids in the tactical interface, some form of match analysis tool or standard tactics that actually work, I'd have liked to have seen users given more tools to help them understand the tactical side of this game in this iteration.

Don't confuse this with me wanting the game to be easier, that's certainly not the case. I just feel that the tactics have gotten to the point where it's complete trial and error for many people. You tweak until you stumble on something that works, never actually knowing how or why it works. And at the same time you can never tell why tactics are failing, but even if you could it's very difficult to know what to do about it.

Knowledge of football seems to mean nothing anymore when it comes to the tactical side of this game, which is a shame. I simply don't feel that the user is given the tools needed to fully understand the tactical side, and in turn fully utalise it. You seem to have two options - trial and error, or the tactics forum.

Obviously I don't expect the tactical side of the game to be changed at all for a patch, but I hope this is addressed for FM10.

3 - Strikers. This is my biggest frustration in the current game now. My team are doing well enough (as well as I would expect at this stage) so that's not a problem, but no matter what I do I can't get strikers to play anywhere near decent. This is both top class strikers in a world class team, or rubbish strikers in a rubbish team, it doesn't matter as they simply don't perform.

Apart from the issues above I'm enjoying the game and will continue playing it. But if I'm honest I'm not enjoying it as much as I was enjoying FM08 at this stage.

[phnompenhandy]

Excellent assessments Jimbo, even though I personally haven't encountered most of them!

The huge weekend-easting, hair tearing desolate experience of mine was the activation issue. I hope to god SI prioritise analysing why it went so badly wrong and make things far far better next time.

Otherwise, mate I'm a decade older than you and I love the 3D - wouldn't go back to 2D ever. Sure there are irritations - the jerkiness on my system and things like that but on balance I love it.

I haven't personally encountered any game-breaking or serious bugs, but then I'm only 1 season in so far and I entirely empathise with those who have experienced crashes and can't get going at all. I dread every session that it could be me next.

Minimal bugs I can live with and in some cases justify using in-game editors to 'correct' matters.

Chopper's point #1 worries me as well - my laptop is by no means state-of-the-art; I'm relieved I can have the 3D at all, but FM09 does seem to to push things to the limit. I'm afraid I'm not with you, Chopper, on the tactics issue at all - study TT&F - being theory as well as practice it does tell you how and why things work tactically. Regarding the strikers, watching the 3D I see how and why my strikers are rubbish, so I don't see grounds for complaint there. That's just in my game of course; your experience might well be very different.

But for me overall, I'm delighted, I'm immersed, FM09 gets a 9 out of 10 from me.

[chopper99]

Chopper's point #1 worries me as well - my laptop is by no means state-of-the-art; I'm relieved I can have the 3D at all, but FM09 does seem to to push things to the limit. I'm afraid I'm not with you, Chopper, on the tactics issue at all - study TT&F - being theory as well as practice it does tell you how and why things work tactically. Regarding the strikers, watching the 3D I see how and why my strikers are rubbish, so I don't see grounds for complaint there. That's just in my game of course; your experience might well be very different.

That's sort of my point though, I've studied TT&F each year to get to grips with the tactics, and think wwfan and co do an excellent job producing these guides.
But, what if I don't want to read a long guide each year, or don't have access to them? My problem then is that I'm left with trial and error only, I have nothing similar in the game to aid me in figuring out what does what and why.

Last year I had the tactics nailed and could easily create successful tactics. but at the same time I could fully understand how frustrating it must be for those people who either hadn't heard of TT&F, or simply didn't have the time to read the threads in there. How are these people supposed to fully grasp the tactical side of the game without simply using trial and error?

[sirdez24]

Exactly, the fact that the common response is "read a 50-page document" pretty much sums up exactly where the tactical interface is at right now.

[Jimbokav1971]

Chopper.

Concerning the demands on the pc, you may well be right but I am still hoping that you aren't. My old pc, (which comfortably ran long long long term games), simply couldn't cope with FM09 at all and blew up, (nah I'm not blaming FM for that). I'm on a borrowed laptop at he moments so it's hard to guage how demanding it is being because I have nothing to guage it against on this machine. I will be buying a new pc after Crimbo though and I really hop to God you are wrong, (but have noticed a few threads about that today).

With regards to the tactical assistance that should be on offer, I know where you are coming from but I would like to think that the Ass Man feedback is actually quite a big step in the right direction, (if it actually worked). Maybe it hasn't gone the whole hog but it's a start.

I'm not really encountering poorly performing strikers. (I mean I am, but no more so than the rest of my team), so maybe there might be something in a tactical fix or maybe, (and this is what I think), we have got so used to strikers in the game outperforming the best strikers in the real World.

Now a good goal-scoring ratio, (in the real world at least is about a goal every 3 games). Generally a guy is thought to be pretty decent if he scores every 3rd game or better. Michael Owen is one of the best/most prolific strikers that England have produced for the last few decades. Even with his horrendous run of injuries and the way that he performs poorly after returning to the team, (until he reaches full fitness), he has scored at about a goal every 2ish games or so. (I think it was 1.9 at Liverpool, 2.1 in Spain and it's decent too in Geordieland. So what I'm saying is that at the end of the season if you have a SC who has notched 15 goals and upwards then he has done pretty well. Our expectations of a SC scoring better than a goal a game every season are so far from reality that I am quite glad that the game is being adjusted to bring it closer to normality. It took them a while but it looks like they have got there in the end, (much like them ruining my scoring GK tactic) lol. So anyway, although this is a bit of a change, I think it's our expectations that need to change now rather than a step back in time to the bad old days.

Phnompenhandy & Sirdez.

I don't go into T&TGF and I probably never will. I don't play the game as often as I used to, but I play it the same way. How well I do or don't do isn't really this issue for me. It's how I do it tyhat is important.

Season 1 Relegated from Conference North with FC Utd.
Season 2 Finished 5th in Conference South with Hitchin.
Season 3 On-going.

Hot-seat game.

Season 1 Sacked in January as manager of Sunderland while sitting bottom of the league. (Well my reputation was Sunday League so I suppose it was fair enough but I swear that I was about to turn things around with my new signings). Sunderland didn't go down by the way.
Season 2 Took over Crawley in Conference South and the jury is still out. lol

I will keep plugging away and if my Hitchin save is anything to go by then the omens look good.

[jptykes]

FM Constructive feedback.
-Clubs not entering receivership and being deducted points often enough.

Very good post imo. The only part I'd disagree with I've quoted above. In my game (and that's the thing, it's going to vary from game to game) there have been quite a few clubs in admin. In fact, in the 8 seasons I've played Newcastle have been in admin twice!!

[Jimbokav1971]

jptykes. Well that's good to know. Glad to have been proved wrong.

Any chance you can go through all the English leagues and tell me how many in total have entered receivership over however many seasons?

[jptykes]

I've only got the EPL running because I'm not playing in England. I'll gladly have a look though

*Edit*

How would I find this out? It's not in the club landmarks

[Kewell08]

Top post.
You went from the EPL to the Conference after just one sacking? The lad has no ambition

[kiwityke]

Regarding the strikers, watching the 3D I see how and why my strikers are rubbish, so I don't see grounds for complaint there. That's just in my game of course; your experience might well be very different.

If you could point out to me why my Brazilian international strikers constantly miss 3 or 4 sitters a game I would be very appreciative.

I seem to be able to set my teams up brilliantly until it comes to the finishing, then they blast it wide, at the keeper, or more often than not hit the bar, and I am talking about 'clear cut' chances, so it isn't my tactics (it seems to be a conserted effort to keep strikers goals down)!

Strikers in the game just seem to be a pointless waste of space at the mo (mine get 5.odd averages constantly). My midfields score all my goals and the strikers chip in when they can be arsed seemingly.

It is starting to really frustrate the hell out of me, and I hope they change it in the patch.

[Jimbokav1971]

I've only got the EPL running because I'm not playing in England. I'll gladly have a look though

*Edit*

How would I find this out? It's not in the club landmarks

Look at the historic league tables.

[Jimbokav1971]

Top post.
You went from the EPL to the Conference after just one sacking? The lad has no ambition

lol

I'm playing a hot-seat game with my son, (he was managing Spurs).

When I got the push I was looking for a Championship side, but Spurs gave him the boot while I was still looking so he agreed to drop down to the bottom which is where I wanted to start in the first place.

The cost of this was my job as the Nigerian National team manager. The deal was that I would resign and let him apply for the job. Gutted.

[chopper99]

I'm not really encountering poorly performing strikers. (I mean I am, but no more so than the rest of my team), so maybe there might be something in a tactical fix or maybe, (and this is what I think), we have got so used to strikers in the game outperforming the best strikers in the real World.

Everything you say about strikers is true, and they did need to be toned down a little. However, my issue isn't solely with them not scoring enough (although this is an issue for me, more on that later) it's with them performing poorly overall. Strikers in the game only seem to get decent ratings if they score goals, my world class striker in my game rarely gets over a 6.0 rating, the only time he does is when he scores. This is an issue imo.

And as I said, I still think there's an issue with the number of goals strikers score, in the last two seasons on my game the highest number of goals scored by one of my strikers is 14 in all competitions, other than that the goals have come from midfield and defence. I'm Man City in this particular save for what it's worth. I'd feel it was realistic if my strikers were only scoring 14 or 15 goals in the league but in all competitions top strikers can easily top 20 goals a season in real life.

I'm also willing to accept that this is down to my tactics, and possibly can be improved through tactical manipulation. However, a lot of people (very experienced FM players and forum members among them) are having the same issue which suggests to me that there is an issue of some kind. Even if that issue comes back to tactical intuativeness. The fact is this may be down to my tactics, but I've done the extensive trial and error thing and that's made no difference. So what am I left with? There's nothing in the game to help me understand why my strikers are underperforming.

I'm ashamed to admit that for the first time in a lot of years I've had to download a tactic to enable me to continue enjoying the game. I enjoy a challenge as much as the next person but trying to get my strikers to perform has beaten me tbh.

[Kewell08]

chopper, 08 is my first FM but I don't like the ratings. (Don't have 09 yet, by the way.) I think there is way too much emphasis on something that decides the game for ratings. For man of the match, then certainly this is the key thing.

But a striker who scores one easy goal in a 1-0 victory shouldn't get an 8 just because of that. It seems the ratings are too dependent on the player's actual effect on the game, rather than purely what they have done. My principal example is this: a striker who scores after about 15 minutes is still on a 6, because at this point he hasn't done much and his goal isn't necessarily going to make a big impact on the match. By half-time he is 7. By full time he is 8, even if he hasn't done anything more, because that goal is much bigger at the end than it is at the start. Annoys me.

[jptykes]

Look at the historic league tables.

Of course

In 2011/12 Newcastle went into admin and finished a respectable enough 15th, 7 points clear of relegation. Without the penalty they would have been 13th.

2014/15 saw Everton go bust, though they took the penalty in their stride and finished 13th. They would have ended the season 11th but for the penalty.

2015/16 saw Newcastle in trouble again. This time they scrambled as high as 14th, though they would only have managed 13th anyway.

[Jimbokav1971]

Chopper. Gutted that you felt you had to resort to downloading a tactic as I know it must have been a big big decision.

I think I will have to reserve judgement for a while until I am more succesfull. There is little point me preaching when so far my record is 3 seasons completed, 2 relegations.

If 1/4 of the shots that hit the woodwork went in though I would rock!

As for the ratings thmself, (goes back up to the original post to add player match ratings to the list), they suck like they have always sucked since time began. Now it's worse though. Now they suck to 1 decimal point!

When I play with 1 up front I don't care if he scores. It is all about the performance and so far this seems to be working ok.

When I play with 2 up front I play with 1 team player TM and 1 SC finisher. The SC should do absolutely nothing exceot score goal. No passing, no creating goals, no tackling and no tracking back. Just goals, goals and more goals. His match rating always sicks. The other guy seems to score even less but does have a better match rating. I've tried to work out what seems to affect the match rating but I've given up if I'm honest.

[Bigwig]

Didn’t know about English clubs not being allowed to have English feeder clubs. Might explain why I keep getting crappy teams recommended from Scotland when I’m after someone like Leeds to develop my youth.

[chopper99]

Chopper. Gutted that you felt you had to resort to downloading a tactic as I know it must have been a big big decision.

It was, but at the time it was either that or stop playing the game for a while. I like too many other aspects of the game to give up on it so went for the easy option and downloaded a tactic. I now have a little more success with my strikers, which indicates that this can be improved somewhat with tactics. But I think the scope of tactical settings that results in your strikers playing well may be too small.

Anyway, I should probably stop banging on about the striker issues now, I'm hoping there'll be some improvement in the patch. I'll then be back making my own tactics and starting a proper game in the basement leagues.

[SmurfDude]

Personally I've never felt the need to download a tactic. If I lose then so be it, I don't care

The only thing I judge FM on is what I perceive to be right and wrong. Man united dominating but not winning against Fulham isn't wrong, it just happens, that's sport so deal with it. You being a bad loser isn't something SI can fix in a patch (not targeted at anyone in this thread specifically). However, hitting the crossbar 10 times a game, players being injured for a month from a bruised jaw, strikers getting pathetic ratings, John O'Pie scoring 30 yard screamers, midfielders having 50 long shots a game despite putting long shots on 'rarely', your defenders not closing down properly, strikers running wide when they have the opportunity to run into the box and shoot, strikers generally feel as if they are more useless than they should be, goalkeepers getting too many assists, goalkeepers not diving far enough to save penalties, crashing on the 24th of July, Man city spending 60 million on average players, press conferences being terribly repetitive, and a host of other small issues, that's what is wrong with FM right now

Aside from all that, I like FM09 and I love the 3D view. If the patch sorts out all the above, I'll be very very happy

[Mitja]

i wonder how many people who experience poor strikers performances (not just ability to score but overall play) are playing their strikers on high mentalities? my strikers perform very well so far, as fast as i lowered their mentalities. they don't take rushed shots, they pass backwards, they link the play...

there are things that i quite disagree with TT&F (but it's a fantastic read), and i must say i'm enjoing my game much more since i got back to my usual thinking.

what i want to say is, if mentality effects forward passes, risk and rush of play than strikers shouldn't be given high mentality if you want them to be involved with play and build up. there's an obvious pattern which is happening in such (attacking mentality) system:

GK: 13
DC: 13
FB: 14
MC: 15
WI: 16
MC: 17
ST: 18

possession at the back and rush up front.

[Neji]

Personally I've never felt the need to download a tactic. If I lose then so be it, I don't care

I also did as chopper did and downloaded a tactic and thats because I was in the same situation. Enjoy playing or stop playing. So I'd prefer to carry on playing what is a very good game than stop playing because of the strikers issue.

For me, it wasn't a case of losing, I was doing very well with my own tactics but I was getting annoyed that my strikers would not score any goals. Thats why I downloaded a tactic.

[rcallini]

I'm with Chopper99. To actually implement the kind of tactic you want is impossible as I just don't know what settings do what. It really is trial and error. Also, underperforming strikers is actually killing me slowly i think. "Just hit the back of the net Aguero!!!!"

[sirdez24]

Phnompenhandy & Sirdez.

I don't go into T&TGF and I probably never will. I don't play the game as often as I used to, but I play it the same way. How well I do or don't do isn't really this issue for me. It's how I do it tyhat is important.

Jim, I couldn't agree more. I don't use the tactics forum or the TT&F. Nothing appeals to me less than having success in the game because I've applied the theories/tactics that some else has discovered/built. The enjoyment of the game to me comes with doing everything myself and working it out myself.

However, tactics have increasingly become a blind game of trial and error for me. In my current game of dafuge's challenge, I am clinging onto a playoff spot in L1 after consecutive promotions from the BSP. I am doing well with a tactic I created. However, ask me to explain why my tactic works or what the theory is behind it, I couldn't. It's just something I threw together in frustration after numerous tactics I deliberately thought out and spent time on didn't work. This did.

When I tell my team to play direct and fast, they have far more possession than when I go short and slow.

When I tell my defenders to tight mark, opposition strikers run around with no one near them all game.

When I tell my fullbacks to close down, opposition wingers have a field day as my FBs just run alongside them.

When I tell my players not to shoot from range, they shoot from range.

When I tell them to hold a deep defensive line, they run under the ball and never stay goal side of an attacker.

I will have countless "how did he miss that?" moments, then lose to a 30 yarder or a goal after my defender kicks it into his team mate.

Etc etc.

I don't have the time or the patience to study games in full and prefer to play on key highlights. When is the tactical interface going to cater for someone like me as well as someone who loves to get indepth and study slider in the most minute of details? I never, ever felt in control of my tactics on FM08 and I feel even less in control of them now.

[Mitja]

i never felt i had more control, but i am watching my matches on full most of the match. but also it seems player ability is more importent than before, so that meens there's no absolute control which is realistic.

[Jimbokav1971]

i never felt i had more control, but i am watching my matches on full most of the match. but also it seems player ability is more importent than before, so that meens there's no absolute control which is realistic.

Thats an excellent comment and possibly explains a few of Sir Dez's problems, (who is playing with poor ability players).

[danielrae]

The one thing in this area that I have encountered that I might class as a serious issue is the regularity with which players are hitting the woodwork with shots. This ties in with the previous two issues though and is obviously not something that is easy to fix.

+1 for that. I seem to hit the bar or post atleast twice in every match, if not more.

[chopper99]

Thats an excellent comment and possibly explains a few of Sir Dez's problems, (who is playing with poor ability players).

Unfortunately I'm playing my first save as Man City so can therefore buy as many world class players as are willing to play in rainy Manchester.

Despite that I feel less tactically in control than ever with this version of FM.

[Les Girondins]

OP: You don't think there are any major bugs? I worry. With respect, since you did take time to format your post but you don't say a great deal other than stating the obvious (activation gets more wordage than the actual game or ME or tactics module) which has already been covered to death.

As for not wanting the 3d maybe buy a better PC and stop living in the stone age?

I can't be the only male in his late 30's who actually gets excited by new technology and new ideas - frankly I am consistently amazed by how few people seem to share that enthusiasm for change.

Thanks for sharing, but I get the impression you aren't really seeing the bigger picture and devolve into apologism towards the end.

FM 09 is easily the worst FM ever, it comfortably edges out 08 in this respect. It is heinously buggy, the ME appears to be from 2004 and there are far too many blatant ME issues for it to be credible that anyone ever sat down and tested this game properly before release. You seriously don't mind 35 yard long shots every game or the goalie assist? Or the fact you don't dictate the game ever, you just react to the AI even when they are several magnitudes worse than you? If you keep accepting this sloppy rushed to market release philosophy the game will be dead in a couple of years for anyone with any real interest in fun.

And no, despite being an old buggar myself, I am not excessively grumpy or unduly blinkered by nostalgia to spot a pile of lard when I see it.

[auto98uk]

Should point out that the salary cap is voluntary - so i don't see how they can introduce it tbh

[auto98uk]

OP: You don't think there are any major bugs? I worry. With respect, since you did take time to format your post but you don't say a great deal other than stating the obvious (activation gets more wordage than the actual game or ME or tactics module) which has already been covered to death.

As for not wanting the 3d maybe buy a better PC and stop living in the stone age?

I can't be the only male in his late 30's who actually gets excited by new technbology and new ideas - frankly I am consistently amazed by how few people seem to share that enthusiasm for change.

Thanks for sharing, but I get the impression you aren't really seeing the bigger picture and devolve into apologism towards the end.

FM 09 is easily the worst FM ever, it comfortably edges out 08 in this respect. It is heinously buggy, the ME appears to be from 2004 and there are far too many major bugs. You seriously don't mind 35 yard long shots every game or the goalie assist? Or the fact you don't dictate the game ever, you just react to the AI even when they are several magnitudes worse than you? If you keep accepting this sloppy rushed to market release philosophy the game will be dead in a couple of years for anyone with any real interest in fun.

And no, despite being an old buggar myself, I am not excessively grumpy or unduly blinkered by nostalgia to spot a pile of lard when I see it.

He hasn't experienced them, so he hasn't commented on it, unlike some on these forums who are quite willing to have a go for bugs they themselves have not had

[Mitja]

what i wanted to say is that almost all sliders, especially team ones (and even free role for a change) seem to be working properly unlike before. i'm cleraly able to see my impact and my style on the pitch even with my ungelled team. and it's nice to see my players improving and adopting to my tactics. but that doesn't meen they will fullfil my instruction 100% of time. i defenetly wouldn't want that a player with 'perfect' tactical settings becomes 'perfect player' just becouse of these settings. i like that player ability is obvious in ME. there are still some issues with it like wingers being able to skin fullbacks too effectivly, fullbacks marking and positioning in general, players being able to take long shots too easily, poor ME representation of long shots, too many crosses bouncing to corners off defenders, off sides (i hate seeing those keeper to striker offsides, it should happen once in two matches at most), posts. i find most of the things that i can't control are ME issues rather than tactical..

[Ackter]

I really expected not to like the 3D when I heard of its inclusion, but I have to say that I love it - I honestly think you should give it another try. I've not watched the match engine at all in the last 3 versions of the game when playing it instead of testing it (commentary only ftw) so I think we're probably in similar boats.

[Mitja]

OP: You don't think there are any major bugs? I worry. With respect, since you did take time to format your post but you don't say a great deal other than stating the obvious (activation gets more wordage than the actual game or ME or tactics module) which has already been covered to death.

As for not wanting the 3d maybe buy a better PC and stop living in the stone age?

I can't be the only male in his late 30's who actually gets excited by new technbology and new ideas - frankly I am consistently amazed by how few people seem to share that enthusiasm for change.

Thanks for sharing, but I get the impression you aren't really seeing the bigger picture and devolve into apologism towards the end.

FM 09 is easily the worst FM ever, it comfortably edges out 08 in this respect. It is heinously buggy, the ME appears to be from 2004 and there are far too many major bugs. You seriously don't mind 35 yard long shots every game or the goalie assist? Or the fact you don't dictate the game ever, you just react to the AI even when they are several magnitudes worse than you? If you keep accepting this sloppy rushed to market release philosophy the game will be dead in a couple of years for anyone with any real interest in fun.

And no, despite being an old buggar myself, I am not excessively grumpy or unduly blinkered by nostalgia to spot a pile of lard when I see it.

i've seen you posting some exellant stuff and i don't undersatnd why you need to slate allmost everyone. if i'm not wrong OP said he didn't play 09 too much and that these are his reactions from what he's seen so far.

if you like 3d, than enjoy it. you don't need to tell people they're from stone age becouse they don't like it. i played one match in 3d and i turned it off. i'll do the same next year 2d tv mode is what i wanted..

ME has issues and will allways have it. but it's the best so far, just like 08 is better than 07, and 07 is better than 06...

also for me and many others 09 is the best game in series so far, just like 10 will be. i like the direction where FM goes, maybe you don't...

[Mitja]

I've not watched the match engine at all in the last 3 versions of the game when playing it instead of testing it (commentary only ftw) so I think we're probably in similar boats.

i hope not all testers are doing that!!

[Les Girondins]

i've seen you posting some exellant stuff and i don't undersatnd why you need to slate allmost everyone. if i'm not wrong OP said he didn't play 09 too much and that these are his reactions from what he's seen so far.

if you like 3d, than enjoy it. you don't need to tell people they're from stone age becouse they don't like it. i played one match in 3d and i turned it off. i'll do the same next year 2d tv mode is what i wanted..

ME has issues and will allways have it. but it's the best so far, just like 08 is better than 07, and 07 is better than 06...

also for me and many others 09 is the best game in series so far, just like 10 will be. i like the direction where FM goes, maybe you don't...

Flat caps, whippets and a 150, 000 mile Ford Cortina sort eh?

I don't 'slate almost everyone' either. That's nonsense. In fact find me an example of my slating anyone on these forums? You must be confusing me with someone else.

[Ackter]

i hope not all testers are doing that!!

You misunderstand - when I play on my own time it was always on commentary only. When I was part of the testing team I'd watch extended highlights.

[sirdez24]

I really expected not to like the 3D when I heard of its inclusion, but I have to say that I love it - I honestly think you should give it another try. I've not watched the match engine at all in the last 3 versions of the game when playing it instead of testing it (commentary only ftw) so I think we're probably in similar boats.

I absolutely love the 3D. There is nothing better than watching your team score a well-worked goal on the 3D view. It's magic, and there's no way I could ever go back to 2D viewing. However with the 3D also comes an increased awareness of problems with the match engine.

That said I think, with a few issues dealt with, FM09 will comfortably be the best ever. Comfortably.

[Riz Remes]

Thanks for the good feedback !

-Lower League salary cap in England not introduced.

The LL salary cap was on our list of things to try and implement already for FM09, but we did not have the time to implement it this year. So I would not really call it a bug, since it is just one of many real life things that is not yet modelled in the game. We are going to try and fit this into the plans for the next FM naturally.

[chopper99]

I really expected not to like the 3D when I heard of its inclusion, but I have to say that I love it - I honestly think you should give it another try. I've not watched the match engine at all in the last 3 versions of the game when playing it instead of testing it (commentary only ftw) so I think we're probably in similar boats.

I totally agree, I was one of the 'there's no need for 3D and it will add nothing to the game' brigade. However I love the 3D, my only gripe with the game is the fact that the user still isn't given the tools in the game to allow them to fully understand the tactical element (still feels like complete trial and error for many) as well as the fact that strikers are almost impossible to set up effectively.

For me, and I'm pretty sure it's the same for Jimbokav, us raising these things is not the same as saying we hate the game or that it's worse than any others. This thread is simply for constructive feedback and discussion on what we'd like to see improved in the future.

Why people like Les Girondins feel then need to jump on peoples opinions, particularly when they're put forward in a constructive way, is beyond me. Debate is welcome, an 'I'm right and you're wrong' attitude isn't tbh.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Keep it on topic please.

There is no need to cast further opinion on other people's posting styles.

[Les Girondins]

I totally agree, I was one of the 'there's no need for 3D and it will add nothing to the game' brigade. However I love the 3D, my only gripe with the game is the fact that the user still isn't given the tools in the game to allow them to fully understand the tactical element (still feels like complete trial and error for many) as well as the fact that strikers are almost impossible to set up effectively.

For me, and I'm pretty sure it's the same for Jimbokav, us raising these things is not the same as saying we hate the game or that it's worse than any others. This thread is simply for constructive feedback and discussion on what we'd like to see improved in the future.

Why people like Les Girondins feel then need to jump on peoples opinions, particularly when they're put forward in a constructive way, is beyond me. Debate is welcome, an 'I'm right and you're wrong' attitude isn't tbh.

Oh do grow up! If the OP can post an opinion so can anyone; if people think the OP is wrong, they should say so. If I agree I'll say so. I grew up before PC liberal lefty nobody can lose, nobody is ever wrong, nobody can fail just defer achievement crud. If I think you're wrong then I'll tell you. If I think you miss the point, I'll tell you and provide examples. Fight your corner by presenting and substantiating your own ideas (something op fails to do) or tell me why I am wrong or why you disagree. Anything else is infantile and lame.

edit: Cross posted with Matt. Won't purse this any further.

[chopper99]

Oh do grow up! If the OP can post an opinion so can anyone; if people think the OP is wrong, they should say so. If I agree I'll say so. I grew up before PC liberal lefty nobody can lose, nobody is ever wrong, nobody can fail just defer achievement crud. If I think you're wrong then I'll tell you. If I think you miss the point, I'll tell you and provide examples Fight your corner by presenting and substantiating your own ideas (something op fails to do) or tell me why I am wrong or why you disagree. Anything else is infantile and lame.

edit: Cross posted with Matt. Won't purse this any further.

Considering Matt's post I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

[Jimbokav1971]

OP: You don't think there are any major bugs? I worry. With respect, since you did take time to format your post but you don't say a great deal other than stating the obvious (activation gets more wordage than the actual game or ME or tactics module) which has already been covered to death.

Well with respect I haven't found any majot bugs and the biggest issue that I have had with the game to date was the issues with activation so I gave it the relevant amount of wordage.

As for not wanting the 3d maybe buy a better PC and stop living in the stone age?

I have a pretty decent pc thanks very much. My issues with the 3D aren't due to technology, they are due to a lack of "feel" about it. It just doesnt seem right. Not sure how this makes me a stone age man.

I can't be the only male in his late 30's who actually gets excited by new technology and new ideas - frankly I am consistently amazed by how few people seem to share that enthusiasm for change.

I'm sure you're not. I have an enthusiasm for change, just not change for change's sake. I don't believe the 3D match engine is an improvement on the historic 2D match engine. In fact I think it is poorer.

Thanks for sharing, but I get the impression you aren't really seeing the bigger picture and devolve into apologism towards the end.

The bigger picture? I honestly couldn't give a toss about the bigger picture. All I care about is my enjoyment of the game. Is there something wrong with that? What should I be putting ahead of that? As for me "devolving into pologism" (what an complete arse!), I think you just like the sound of your own voice.

FM 09 is easily the worst FM ever, (I do not agree, it is better than FM08 was at this stage which I found unplayable due to serious game-ending bugs, of which I have encountered none in FM09). it comfortably edges out 08 in this respect. It is heinously buggy, the ME appears to be from 2004 and there are far too many blatant ME issues for it to be credible that anyone ever sat down and tested this game properly before release. You seriously don't mind 35 yard long shots every game or the goalie assist? I am not encountering this every game. I was encounting it quite often but hae developed tactical solutions to these and other problematic occurances. Or the fact you don't dictate the game ever, you just react to the AI even when they are several magnitudes worse than you? That's not what I am seeing at all. If you keep accepting this sloppy rushed to market release philosophy the game will be dead in a couple of years for anyone with any real interest in fun.

And no, despite being an old buggar myself, I am not excessively grumpy or unduly blinkered by nostalgia to spot a pile of lard when I see it. Well to be honest that remains to be seen, but the prognosis is not looking good at the moment.

Thanks for taking the time to respond in such a manner though.

It's just such a shame that you couldn't have managed a single peice of constructive ctiticism amid your rantings.

[Jimbokav1971]

Should point out that the salary cap is voluntary - so i don't see how they can introduce it tbh

Yeah. It may be volountary, but I as I guess that everyone is adhering to it they could introduvce it in exactly the same way as they would if it was compulsory.

[Jimbokav1971]

I really expected not to like the 3D when I heard of its inclusion, but I have to say that I love it - I honestly think you should give it another try. I've not watched the match engine at all in the last 3 versions of the game when playing it instead of testing it (commentary only ftw) so I think we're probably in similar boats.

My son likes it so when we play a hot seat game I am watching his games.

It's grown on me a little, but not much if I'm honest. Maybe this will change over time.

I suppse it's just what you are used to.

[Jimbokav1971]

Thanks for the good feedback !



The LL salary cap was on our list of things to try and implement already for FM09, but we did not have the time to implement it this year. So I would not really call it a bug, since it is just one of many real life things that is not yet modelled in the game. We are going to try and fit this into the plans for the next FM naturally.

Apologies. My mistake.

It's not a bug at all.

I was thinking of things that were missing that I had hoped would be in this game and meant to make a new section entitled "missed opportunities".

Cheers Riz.

[Jimbokav1971]

Les G. I've got no problems with anyone disagreeing with me.

I didn't substantiate my comments simply because they are my opinions based on my experience of the game. They are not being put forward as anything other than that. It's quite possible that after managing for a longer period, with higher reputation teams, or in other leagues then I will have a different opinion. At the moment this is honestly as I see it.

To give you a bit of background, at this stage last year I had given up playing FM completely, (actually I think I had just stopped giving up and had started again with the last patch), but you get my drift.

I found the game unplayable because I was encountering game-ending bugs which led to me being sacked through no fault of my own, (board expectation bug and lower league attendance bug, (the latter impacting severly on finances). Now obviously as I'm not encountering these things I'm sure that you can see why my feedback might be considered positive by comparison.

Considering what happened when SI introduced the 2D match engine with CM4, (an unmitigated disaster), I would suggest that this is a distinct improvement.

Apologies to the MODs for thge number of consecutive posts.

[Frankie 7]

Long shots is something that others seem to class as a serious bug and I am yet to make up my mind on this. I would agree that long range goals seem to be scored too often in the lower leagues

This is really getting annoying for me in the game. Nearly every game the opponent scores a long range goal and usualy from the player whose long shots are very weak.

The one thing in this area that I have encountered that I might class as a serious issue is the regularity with which players are hitting the woodwork with shots.

Yip again usually the team i am managing this happens to a lot. Very annoying in this version.

Minimal bugs.

-Penalties being awarded on a regular basis for challenges that seem to be outside the box.

I thought it was only me that noticed this. I have had pens for and agains me in the game when the foul was clearly outside the box. Driving me nuts now and good i now know this is happening to tohers in game also.

Also pen shoot outs, lost all in the game so far even agianst lower level teams. Now i know this happens sometimes but not every single shoot out a team has had. Seems the opponent are so much better at pens than the team i am managing.

-Arsenal seem significantly over-rated in the game.

This is so annoying and has put me off playing the the EPL for now.


But these issuse's are not enough to stop me playing the game altogether. But i really hope the new patch will sort out the problems.

[CaptainPlanet]

I've spent 3 days working on my "constructive feedback" and it's not ready yet (I'm backing each of my concerns up with screenshots and pkms where possible). Needless to say there are countless dissapointments along with the improvements.

My worry is that my feedback will get lost amongst the rants on the forum and I'd really like to know I'm being listened to. Short of writing an official letter to SI HQ is there any way I can be sure my constructive feedback is at least acknowledged?

[Jimbokav1971]

Captain Planet. If I were you I wouldn't post it on the forums until the kids go back to school.

It will give the forums a chance to calm down again and there is less chance of the thread being lost amongst the garbage.

[GeorgieMc]

It's a great game on the whole but the one problem I seem to encounter which has ruined my enjoyment a bit is this - it may have been mentioned before but I'm not on here often.

I have overachieved in each season (first season - top-half finish, second season - play-off promotion and third season top-half in the Blue Square Premier) and at the end of each season my job is very secure and the board are delighted but then as soon as a new season starts it's as though all my achievements to date have been wiped out. My job is back to stable and the board are merely satisfied. It's happened every season and means that if I get off to a poor start one season, I don't have the security I should have to buy myself time.

[Matt ex SEGA]

I've spent 3 days working on my "constructive feedback" and it's not ready yet (I'm backing each of my concerns up with screenshots and pkms where possible). Needless to say there are countless dissapointments along with the improvements.

My worry is that my feedback will get lost amongst the rants on the forum and I'd really like to know I'm being listened to. Short of writing an official letter to SI HQ is there any way I can be sure my constructive feedback is at least acknowledged?

The best threads don't tend to get lost. You should be fine.