'six-plus-five' Ruling - how would it effect your game?

[Box]

If Sepp Blatter gets his way and get the 5 foreign players per team ruling passed the European Commission, how would it effect your style of club management in the game?

This is relation to FOOTBALL MANAGER NOT REAL LIFE .

I personally wouldn’t like playing to this ruling for several reasons, but most important one would be the quality of my teams.

My personal policy is to buy the best player I can afford for each position on my team with adequate cover. This ruling will mean I have to keep one eye on my teams nationality as well. As some teams, mainly smaller teams, don’t have decent youth facilities, this means dipping my toe into the domestic transfer market and buying players who won’t necessarily be the best players available for the positions required.

So my teams wil basically be the best teams from that domestic league – the way I see it , this basically takes National Management and club management one step closer. International management should be about national identity, club management should be about the best players for your club, regardless of their nationality. Club management is about winning and entertaining, how will we be able to do that if we are restricted to having six of the home nations players in our teams?

OK so it’s not as much of a problem when competing at the top level in a great league (Italy, Spain England) will be more of a problem if playing in a terrible league! Can you imagine trying to compete in Europe with a Scottish team with this ruling in effect?

[PaulHartman71]

tbh, in recent years the Scottish and Northern Irish national teams have played better than England's, if anything their leagues will get better.

[Dave Fairbairn]

You do know that until like '94 or so(can't remember the year, but it was the same time as the Bosman ruling) that it was a max of 3 foreigners in a match squad, don't you?

[YesYesOhYay]

well if u hear the rules properly say for a scotish side they DONT actually need to be scotish- some sort of descrimination thing i think- read into it

shouldnt be too hard too work into FM- but to be honest i may not be answering your question properly because im half asleep so didnt read properly!
lol

[Neyles]

I don't see how this proposal can pass European law.

[dafuge]

How would British players fit into this? Would a Scottish player count as foreign for an English team? What about teams like Cardiff?

In my current game in the BSP I could easily make the 6+5, my first team has 8 English, 1 Irish, 1 Scottish and one from Trinidad & Tobago.

[PaulHartman71]

Originally posted by YesYesOhYay:
well if u hear the rules properly say for a scotish side they DONT actually need to be scotish- some sort of descrimination thing i think- read into it

shouldnt be too hard too work into FM- but to be honest i may not be answering your question properly because im half asleep so didnt read properly!
lol

wouldn't 'heading the wrong way' make more sense than 'heading in the wrong direction'?

[Box]

Originally posted by Dave Fairbairn:
You do know that until like '94 or so(can't remember the year, but it was the same time as the Bosman ruling) that it was a max of 3 foreigners in a match squad, don't you?

Yes I'm of course aware of this, I was actually playing CM at that time and remember it being very frustrating having to be limited to just 3 foreigners in your entire squad. I remember being very excited when the ruling was brought in to unrestricted foreigners.

For the guy that thought smaller national teams such as Scotland etc. will probably get better - remember this is talking purely within the confines of the game. I don't want to discuss the ruing generally as I have different opinions there and want to keep the topic relevant.

[Box]

Originally posted by dafuge:
How would British players fit into this? Would a Scottish player count as foreign for an English team? What about teams like Cardiff?

In my current game in the BSP I could easily make the 6+5, my first team has 8 English, 1 Irish, 1 Scottish and one from Trinidad & Tobago.

I'm not entirely sure if British players would be classed as home grown , I'll read into it. I was just highlighting Scotland as a prime example, should the ruling apply to home nations.

[Stomalomalus]

Er, is it just me, or would this make no difference whatsoever? If it has to be 6 "homegrown" players, then it makes no difference as people like Fabregas, Ronaldo, etc. would all count. And if it means they have to have English nationality - well it still makes no difference, as Fabregas, Ronaldo, etc. have all lived in this country long enough to qualify for citizenship and there is no way they dont provide for their socieites, so for all intents and purposes they are English!

THIS WOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE IN REAL LIFE OR IN FM!

[YesYesOhYay]

Er, is it just me, or would this make no difference whatsoever? If it has to be 6 "homegrown" players, then it makes no difference as people like Fabregas, Ronaldo, etc. would all count. And if it means they have to have English nationality - well it still makes no difference, as Fabregas, Ronaldo, etc. have all lived in this country long enough to qualify for citizenship and there is no way they dont provide for their socieites, so for all intents and purposes they are English!

thats basically what i was trying to say and

wouldn't 'heading the wrong way' make more sense than 'heading in the wrong direction'?

doesn't really matter!
lol

[bod1035]

Originally posted by Stomalomalus:
Er, is it just me, or would this make no difference whatsoever? If it has to be 6 "homegrown" players, then it makes no difference as people like Fabregas, Ronaldo, etc. would all count. And if it means they have to have English nationality - well it still makes no difference, as Fabregas, Ronaldo, etc. have all lived in this country long enough to qualify for citizenship and there is no way they dont provide for their socieites, so for all intents and purposes they are English!

THIS WOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE IN REAL LIFE OR IN FM!

I believe they have to be eligable to play for the national team, so that would rule them out

[santy001]

Doesn't the spanish league already have something similar? They have a lot of non-EU players in their team, but because they now have european passports it doesnt matter. I know its not quite the same but it works in a similar principle.

[glamdring]

Cristiano Ronaldo is, in no sensible sense of the word, homegrown. He may have arrived in this country quite young, but he ain't home grown. Besides, he wouldn't have been homegrown when he was signed so Manure would have had to wait 5 years or whatever for him to finally count as homegrown.

As for my style of management - it wouldn't change the way I want to manage in FM at all, but it would change the way I do. I have always wanted to build a team of mostly kids from my youth team, but the quality of regens from player-managed clubs in FM08 that I have seen (and FM07) makes that impossible so I have to sign them up from other clubs instead.

[backpackant]

Originally posted by Dave Fairbairn:
You do know that until like '94 or so(can't remember the year, but it was the same time as the Bosman ruling) that it was a max of 3 foreigners in a match squad, don't you?

Ah, the good old days. I remember Leeds United getting a replay after being dumped out of Europe because the opposing team had an additional foreigner on their bench.

First leg away was lost 3-0.
Second leg was winning 4-0 at Elland Road until one foreigner came of the bench for another and an administrator at United spotted it. The Score ending 4-1, meaning Leeds lost on away goals.
The tie was to be decided over a single match on a neutral venue, which Leeds won 2-1 (Carl Schutt off the bench).

Anyway, back on topic: 1) the game will be enhanced because - I think - clubs will be forced to field youngsters where possible and newgens will be created at a much higher level. and 2) it's irrelevant anyway because it breaks the law. Unless Blatter can get himself elected as head of state of a European country - say PM of England - and persuade his Euro cronies to overturn constitutional law relating to free trade inside the Union, his plan has little chance of coming off. I doubt any CURRENT head of state could pull this off, since free trade and working is one of the founding principles of the EU, so I don't think Mr Blatter is going to be any more successful.

[YesYesOhYay]

homegrown means they must have spent 3/4 years in the country by age 21 me thinks!

[backpackant]

Originally posted by Stomalomalus:
Er, is it just me, or would this make no difference whatsoever? If it has to be 6 "homegrown" players, then it makes no difference as people like Fabregas, Ronaldo, etc. would all count. And if it means they have to have English nationality - well it still makes no difference, as Fabregas, Ronaldo, etc. have all lived in this country long enough to qualify for citizenship and there is no way they dont provide for their socieites, so for all intents and purposes they are English!

THIS WOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE IN REAL LIFE OR IN FM!

Ronaldo wouldn't count unless Man U signed him on a youth contract. At least he wouldn't count until he's been nationalised and holds a British passport.

In the pre-Bosman days, a player was considered a "national" if he'd been at the club 4 years (I think). Of course, most gamers here probably won't remember that far back. To the older ones: remember when you had to pay a fee for a player even when he was out of contract?

[bod1035]

The Fifa 6+5 rule is that 6 players must be of the same nationality of the country that the league is in and be eligable for the national team.

Uefa though are trying to put through a system where the players would of had to be trained in the leagues county from a cetain age, but it does not matter which nationality the player is, ie Fabregas.

[backpackant]

Originally posted by santy001:
Doesn't the spanish league already have something similar? They have a lot of non-EU players in their team, but because they now have european passports it doesnt matter. I know its not quite the same but it works in a similar principle.

Non-EU player rules are legal. What Blatter is talking about is players from THAT country only. So the Spanish rule would come in, but affecting all non-Spaniards too.

For FM, this would mean a lot of new coding and a lot of gamers looking for ways around it. I quite like the idea. I don't think it would stop you signing foreigners, but it would stop you fielding them on the pitch. I wonder if this is a loophole for Blatter to exploit?

[glamdring]

So you can save money on tea ladies by using those excess foreigners in the kitchens

[eple]

SI would have to make sure that training and regeneration of players work properly before releasing the game. On every single version of FM there has been problems with player development and regens that have had effects on a long term game. If the rules are going to limit a managers flexibility further, then it will very important that this works fully.

[Flair]

Yah. They could do 6 euros / 5 non euros... but thats not an issue. Since non-EU people generally dont a get a work permit half the time.

But Its illegal for an EU country to limit any other EU national from working in any EU country.

And thats why 6+5 will never be passed.

[Archy-91]

When Celtic became the first British side to win the European Cup in 1967, was it not something ridiculous like every player was born within 15 minutes of the stadium, or glasgow, or something?

Anyway, the point is they were all Scottish, I think there might have been one englishman on the bench who ddnt play in the comp, so if it was done then, it can be done now.

When I play in the lower league (most of the time) I usually have mostly homegrown anyway, but I'm going to start having native players at the bigger clubs, or trying to anyway.

[backpackant]

Originally posted by glamdring:
So you can save money on tea ladies by using those excess foreigners in the kitchens

And use the Eastern Bloc builders to sort your new statium

[jdc747]

I think I could probably cope, it wouldn't necessarily be my best team on the pitch but I would have 6 English players, it would be better if it was British players, which it might be.

[jedclough]

If you play a game with Shaktar, it already does something similar, and I think it's a good thing. It makes you fight harder to buy the best Ukranians you can, and the emphasis is with this rather than buying in foreign talent. It's all very well having Modric, Arshavin, Breno etc but 5 players don't make a team. It makes you invest in youth and trying to expand the pool of homegrown talent.

It doesn't have to affect the EU's ruling on the right to work in any country. A club can still buy as many foreign players as they want, but they will know that they can only field so many at any one time. This way, you'll only sign foreign players who will get a game on a regular basis (Fabregas, Ronaldo etc) and forget about the likes of Gabriel Paletta, Alex Song or John Pantsil. This will provide more opportunities for English talent.

[WIGAN!!]

This will never happen, the only thing Fifa could get away with is limiting the amount of non eu players. saying an eu player cant work for a club is against the law.... Sky sports news said so this morning

[The Lambs]

I currently have only 3 first team starters in my world class Premier team, so it would require me to sign a few more players.

After a quick search, I could fill one of my striker roles with a player coming through my youth team and my 3 rotating Defenders are all English. As one of them can play DR as well I would be up to 5 players.

I would have to dip into the transfer market for the midfield.


I would welcome this rule in real life. Arsenal only started with one English player on the pitch in a third of their Premier League games this year, hence the reason Wenger is so opposed to it.

Of the big four, Man Utited were the best with 4.28 English players in their starting line up.

Only Aston Villa and West Ham had more than an average of 6 players starting the game.

498 players started premier games this season, only 170 of them were English. This is an average of 3.9 players. Spain had 6.9 Spanish players starting each game and Italy had 7.3.

It is no wonder that Capeelo says we have a small pool of players to choose from. Bring the rule on I say, if only to watch Wenger wet his pants.

[The Lambs]

Interesting reading on the ratio of English players in the premiership

[jedclough]

Originally posted by WIGAN!!:
This will never happen, the only thing Fifa could get away with is limiting the amount of non eu players. saying an eu player cant work for a club is against the law.... Sky sports news said so this morning

It doesn't need to be the case. If 5 + 6 refers to the match day squad, that would mean that the number of foreign players in the match day squad is limited. You could still have a large number of foreign players in the squad, they would be picking up a wage and training. You would just be more reluctant to buy foreign players, as they would get less opportunities than homegrown players.

If it was that you could only have a limited number of foreign players in your squad, that would be illegal under EU law.

As far as I know, limiting the number of overseas players in a match squad is a question of football rules, not the jurisdiction of EU law. I might be wrong though!

[DontCallItSoccer]

I had a read of the BBC article, very interesting.

The key sentence, to me, is as follows: "...broader pool of average players rather than a deeper one of the right level of talent..."

Ultimately, any type of quota system or affirmative action scheme, no matter where you apply it, will lower standards in the short term.

Will it raise standards in the medium term? Hard to say, but from a Premier League point of view, I can see why they're opposed.

[NepentheZ]

I usually go for the home grown players if I can in my games. In FM, I doubt it'll prove a problem, as the best teams will be able to monopolize the best players.

IRL, however, this could upset the "big 4" quicker than you could imagine, and teams like Blackburn, Villa, Everton and West Ham could start winning things.

I think this would be fantastic for the national side too.

I do fear for the future of my club though. Being an Arsenal fan, we've barely had 3 or 4 englishmen in the squad since the 1998-1999 season.

[Stomalomalus]

Hang on, the reason these figures dropped (and only by 11 I may add) is due to a higher proportion of British and Irish players, I bet! Sunderland had twice as many non English Brits and Irish in their squad as English. That makes much better reading. You have to remember that there is a unique situation it England due to the fact we are an island made up of three countries, with another country in a union on another island attatched to another country! So these players would not be eligable to play for England. Yet Im sure they wouldnt see it that way, they ae British after all! But Blatter cant grant special dispensation to England. Then the Germans would come saying about the Turks, or the Austrians. The Dutch about the Belgians. The French with the African players. The Spanish with Andorra! So what can FIFA do. Nothing! It cannot realistically happen

[Stomalomalus]

Sorry the numbers dropped by 21 not 11

[Peljam]

Originally posted by jedclough:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WIGAN!!:
This will never happen, the only thing Fifa could get away with is limiting the amount of non eu players. saying an eu player cant work for a club is against the law.... Sky sports news said so this morning

It doesn't need to be the case. If 5 + 6 refers to the match day squad, that would mean that the number of foreign players in the match day squad is limited. You could still have a large number of foreign players in the squad, they would be picking up a wage and training. You would just be more reluctant to buy foreign players, as they would get less opportunities than homegrown players.

If it was that you could only have a limited number of foreign players in your squad, that would be illegal under EU law.

As far as I know, limiting the number of overseas players in a match squad is a question of football rules, not the jurisdiction of EU law. I might be wrong though! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Think you might be spot on there Jed. If the limit applies only to the match day squad then it is not really preventing an EU player from working. They still get a wage, still train and do whatever else, they're just not definatley going to get a start on matchday. Which is how things are now. Nobody is guarenteed a starting 11 place

That would surely avoid problems with the law.


Anyway, with regards to FM, I think it would have to be implemented carefully. In terms of regens and Manager AI. The balance would have to be found between there being enough decent regens to be playable and a realistic level of regen skill.

If the rule is implemented, in RL and FM, then I can see a lot of people complaining about the quality of English regens. Not because of the regen system but just because English players aren't as great as some people think. The more reliance put on English players then the more people will notice the disparity between English youth and other Nationalities. So a little, unrealistic, upping of English regens might be required to keep some happy.

As for the way I play the game I can see it having an affect. I like to have a good homegrown presence but I rarely manage rich clubs, so I can therefore rarely afford it. Normally I'm quite tight with the purse strings so I may have to spend alot more just to meet the quota. I think it would make managing rich clubs alot easier, and maybe those with good academies. Every team inbetween I can see being a struggle.

[Peljam]

Just thought, in the RL sense, I think maybe making the rule optional and rewarding it's use would be better. There'd be less opposition I reckon.

Teams that play within the rule could get more prize money or big grants to improve their training and youth facillities. Plus there would be the added kudos of beating teams who don't play by the rule.

I think that, in the long term, would have better impact on the amount of decent homegrown players, and maybe level the playing field a little more between teams who have the money and those who don't.

[turn it upto 11]

im pretty sure they can get round the law.

a team could still have a load of johnny foriengners, just they can only play 5 in a single game, the players are still training (working)everyday and getting paid so the rule is not stopping them from working.


couldnt teams work around the rule though, just do what they are doing now with the hoimegrown rule and just get players at 15, then they would apply for a british citezenship and technically be british, so technically arsenal could stil have a team from all corners of the globe and not a single person born in british, just wil1 players who have lived in britain for 5 years

[mlp071]

I don't see why is so much of "tragedy" about all this. Not. Forrest, Liverpool reigned Europe when there was "3 foreigner " rule and Ipswich town won UEFA cup twice then.

Would it hurt EPL at first? Yes it will more then others, but in long run will be more beneficial to EPL, clubs and British football as whole.

At least they will try to go back and "groom" some better domestic players, which will be reflected in FM anyways.

[SCIAG]

Playing as Reading on 8.0.0:

Andersen

Rosinor
Sonko
Skertel
Shorey

Little
Henry
Harper
Convey

Kitson
Lita

7 English.

[Aldokemp(H)]

i don't think it would be bad atall, it gives other players the chance to shine who are being held out of there position by foreigners and could turn out to be better - scotland is finding more and more talented youngsters ( steven fletcher ) and our youth ranks are improving all the time, and if your a smaller like say Hull fc then not only your team will not be weakened by this rule as other teams will have to follow the rule aswell

[x42bn6]

My Triestina game would suffer. My Italian youngsters are trash and because Triestina have so many rivals, I can't sign too many Italian players easily.

[Nene_Park_Faithfull]

Originally posted by PaulHartman71:
tbh, in recent years the Scottish and Northern Irish national teams have played better than England's, if anything their leagues will get better.

I disagree, just look at the World Rankings.

[Martyncox405]

It won't matter anyway, the European Commission announced that it was illegal to do so. Thank the lord.

[CalStratho]

In my current game with Celtic I could probably put out an all Scottish team, but only 4 are first choice at the moment, although it might only be 3. It sounds like a player is only technically Scottish if he's eligible for the national team, which would mean Aiden McGeady is a foreigner even though he's from Glasgow.

[Midge]

Originally posted by PaulHartman71:
tbh, in recent years the Scottish and Northern Irish national teams have played better than England's, if anything their leagues will get better.

But then you have to look at the fact that most of the N.I, Scottish, Welsh players play in the English leagues.

Although it will never be implemented and has already been thrown out of the EU teams like Cardiff, Wrexham, Swansea etc would have been forced to play in the Welsh league as thats their location. As they would be forced to play 6 nationals of Wales as that is the nationality of their club but then if they are in the English league they would also be forced to play 6 English due to the nationality of the league. Therefore making it a completly ridiculous motion.


Either way no point ever worrying about this. It breaks ever employment law in the Eu. They could only make a law that limits the number on non-eu players. But even then the majority of the Africans can still move as EU members as all they have to do is declare for France etc.

The African national teams would lose all their top players to France and the other EU nations they are eligible for as they all want to play in Europe and this quota system would mean they could not move as freely.

Anyway all this has done is confirm Blatter is the biggest nonce in football ever. He continues to pursue this even though as he says "I know its illegal, but laws can be changed", so he thinks he is more powerful than the EU commision. Who have already said they will not.

"The implementation by Fifa of this proposal in the European Union would violate EU law," said an EC spokesman.

"The Commission is not considering any change to allow Fifa to push forward this idea. Fifa is aware of this fact."

[DarthInsinuate]

6+5 would ruin my club team. I managed to get the England international job and it's a hard enough struggle to find good players for that.

[michaeltmurrayuk]

My team will be fairly badly hit if it counts only players who can play for England, as I only have 4 Englishmen in my First Squad (24 players), I'd be better off if it counted British players as non-foreign as I'd then have an extra 3 players, whereas if it included players who'd obtained English Nationality (assuming all my EU players took up English Nationality) I had have another 10 players.

Thankfully it'll never get past EU Law, whilst restricting Nationalites (About the only way it would get past is by changing to be like the UEFA Homegrown rule, but state that the players had to have been at the club since the age of 7 or something stupid like that, so it doesn't restrict on Nationality but pick an age range so the odds of a club signing a foreign kid of that age are really low).

[trekman]

How would British players fit into this? Would a Scottish player count as foreign for an English team?

I dont know how they would be classed these days but I remember when Mark Hateley played for rangers he and his English colleagues were classed as foreigners when Rangers played in europe.

[as260191]

We've managed it in Rugby League for about 10 years, where the number of foreign players permitted is limited, and it's worked sucessfully. The only ones playing here now are of high quality, and they help blood the new british talent as well.

[Klimowicz]

i'd actually be okay at Arsenal (ironically). i have been buying more non-english players than usual in the last few seasons, but i always increase the number of english players when i create arsenal games.

[Mr Peanut]

i think it could be ok, not good or bad, but for FM09 when it comes out i think you should have the option for to use the rule in you game.

[Neji]

If asked around 2/3 years ago, I would have been in trouble but now I try to buy English where I can. So I may struggle in some saves but mostly wouldn't be too bad.

[backpackant]

We could add this to the Challenges forum. Play YOUR team as if this rule is in place. Would make managing Chelsea and Man U a bit more interesting.

[Corporal_Curse]

well, in my game with Manchester United, the rule would be a catastrophe. For my best first team i have 9 different nationalities.

[Mike7077]

For my Man. United team, it would be a disaster. To an already pretty cosmopolitan team, I have added three Argentinians, a Ghanaian and a young Spaniard and a Nigerian. I did try to sign an Englishman, but was quoted a price of £84m! I baulked at that and signed my Nigerian instead. Foreign players are cheaper and I hate to reduce the field of talent I look at when identifying targets.

If Blatter had his way, I'd be in a lot of trouble!

[Macyst]

The world is now borderless and so as football. By imposing this rule will discriminate tons of talented players. I don't want to say this but it's somewhat a kind of racism in the form of discrimination from nationality. Also, this will worsen the transfer market, say English players price will be even more expensive. Also, some European country football standards will drop as they have declining birth rate. Where will they get those quality players from? Not everyone is equally talented by the same training.

I always think that any kinds of discrimination should Not be allowed; now the nationality discrimination is being revived from football, namely Blatter.

On the other hand, UEFA's home grown rule is actually excellent; that will promote both local youth system while not affecting/discriminating anyone.

[Macyst]

Forgot to relate my post to FM!

As for FM, rich club will still be fine since they can still buy the best players of the nation regardless. Most of the talented players will still be lured to the rich club like Chelsea and Man Utd. The like of Rio, Rooney, Lampard, Terry, Carrick, Hargreave, etc. If you play big clubs, it won't affect you much since you can still splash the cash.

I'm playing Barcelona now and I'm building and buying Spanish players back to the club. Romos, Torres, etc. They all come since I have the money. Again, what Blatter hopes to solve will not be done by this foolish rule because rich clubs will buy the best in anyway.

[htygyr]

what people don't realise is that it wouldn't increase the number of talented english players, it would increased the number of experienced players, doesn't mean they will be good

bad players won't become good playing all the time, they would need talent beforehand.

and peljam the rule may refer to the match day but it is still illegal because it stops foriegners from playing, therefore not working, therefore going against eu law

[Dreaded Walrus]

It will be interesting to see what happens if the six-plus-five rule goes ahead with regards to dual-nationality players.

If a player is, say, English and American, would they count as English? If so, let's say Cristiano Ronaldo spends a few more years here. Would he count as English for the purposes of this rule?

If not, let's say that for dual nationality players it's based off the national team they play for. Would you get Woking and Chelsea bemoaning the fact that the Younghusband brothers decided to go and play for the Philippines and therefore not count as "English", and would rather them spend their careers as players not good enough to play for England, therefore just not play international football?

Regardless, as the EU has said, Sepp Blatter's proposals go against EU laws on freedom of movement, as you cannot stop someone from working freely for you based on their nationality, so long as they are an EU national.

The "home-grown" rule UEFA are planning on implementing interests me a lot, and should be both challenging and rewarding. Let's just hope that the youth aspect of this game gets quite a bit of improvement up until that point.

As for how this rule would affect me, I'm unsure. Some games (particularly lower league), I have mostly English players, while others I have mostly foreign players. I hope the EU can dissuade Blatter from going ahead with his proposals, though.

[llama3]

Originally posted by Mike7077:
I did try to sign an Englishman, but was quoted a price of £84m! I baulked at that and signed my Nigerian instead. Foreign players are cheaper and I hate to reduce the field of talent I look at when identifying targets.

Mate now this is why Arsene Wenger buys foreign players at Arsenal. I mean look at an example - Bakary Sagna, cost £6m from Auxerre last summer, now can you name any English right-back who has player nearly as well and would cost a reasonable fee? no chance.

Wenger is sensible with finances, thats why we have so many foreign players. Arsenal do actually have some good young Englishmen coming through, people like Henri Lansbury, Jack Wilshere and Kyle Bartley are all looking very promising.

[MTC]

the rule may refer to the match day but it is still illegal because it stops foriegners from playing, therefore not working, therefore going against eu law

But it doesn't stop them from playing, it is still possible to select any foreign players, just as long as there are only 5 of them.

[safc4eva]

It would seriously affect my SAFC game because I only have 3 English first-teamers. But on my edited database for an experiment I'm starting in the Conference North and will try to become the no.1 team in Europe with only using English players and staff.

[htygyr]

Originally posted by MTC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the rule may refer to the match day but it is still illegal because it stops foriegners from playing, therefore not working, therefore going against eu law

But it doesn't stop them from playing, it is still possible to select any foreign players, just as long as there are only 5 of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah but as you can only pick 5, if u have 6 forigners, then one can't play everyweek due to the law therefore its illegal

[WerderBremenYank]

It wouldnt effect my Werder team at all


I've got a team full of germans, except for Henri Saivet and Ken Okada, a Japanese regen striker.

[The Chosen One]

Originally posted by The Lambs:
I currently have only 3 first team starters in my world class Premier team, so it would require me to sign a few more players.

After a quick search, I could fill one of my striker roles with a player coming through my youth team and my 3 rotating Defenders are all English. As one of them can play DR as well I would be up to 5 players.

I would have to dip into the transfer market for the midfield.


I would welcome this rule in real life. Arsenal only started with one English player on the pitch in a third of their Premier League games this year, hence the reason Wenger is so opposed to it.

Of the big four, Man Utited were the best with 4.28 English players in their starting line up.

Only Aston Villa and West Ham had more than an average of 6 players starting the game.

498 players started premier games this season, only 170 of them were English. This is an average of 3.9 players. Spain had 6.9 Spanish players starting each game and Italy had 7.3.

It is no wonder that Capeelo says we have a small pool of players to choose from. Bring the rule on I say, if only to watch Wenger wet his pants.

It's not only Arsene thats opposing the rule I am sure many many people in the UK are against this rule. It is rather to stupid to say you can get 6 english players who can constanly start in the game. No offence but we all know how eager all these big teams are to get English players and how much they can offer them but simply the chances of finding are rather slim. The fact that Man U had to spend so much to get them suggested that demand is just simply too high.

Rio Ferdinand - 30 M pounds
Wayne Rooney - 25 M pounds
Carrick - 18 M pounds
Owen H - 18 M pounds

Speaking of Arsene, mind you he produced many english players over the course but they were not simply good enough. David Bently couldn't cope with the competition and let's face he was never close to Pires (when he was in his prime) and Freddy Lju. Pennant became a stripper: getting drunk in the middle of the night and hence ending up in the jail.

England will never produce as many good players as Brazil because let's face it Brazilians littely drink, sleep, and smoke football.

The idea, 6+5, is good but I think 6 players is just too much... may be 3+8 would be good.

ANd hey the rule would only come affect in around 2013... so who knows who is still playing FM.

By the way, wasn't it Blatter who said gay footballers should come of the closet? (A relief for Ronaldo) so who is even listening this guy.

[Heisenberg]

Considering the length of time we're looking at for this to happen (2013, as The Chosen One stated above) I think it'd be fairly easy, even for Arsenal, to implement. They have a number of good youth players coming through who'd be ready by then if they're kept, and it's worth noting that Wenger actually bought some of them as youngsters

With regards to my Arsenal team (I'm currently in 2011) if I had the 2 year bracket I'd manage it I think. I currently have 3 regular English starters and three players who are up and comers I use as cover and for cup games. I could manage it, but I'd not perform as well

[T.R.F.C]

i think it will just mena that clubs will start to rade other european teams for there 14 year olds are offering them a chance to move to england because this way they will count as british by the time they get into the first team

[mizan]

It wouldnt be that hard for me in my game.

I started the ENGLISH challenge- to have a squad full of English players. I started with Arsenal.

I have to say it was very hard to sell people like Fabregas.

One thing though, there is a lack of good English players, also the transfer fees are ridiculous.

I paid £20m for Michael Johnson £30m for Agbonlahor and Richards! I wanted Gerrard, Liverpool wanted £70m!!

If this rule goes through, the big four will fight it out for the top Englishmen and their prices would be inflated.

As a challenge, its great but it is agonising not being able to sign the likes of Aguero and sell Fabregas and Co!!

[Pyu]

Read up on the Bosman ruling. Other than allowing players to move for free, it did alot more by banning restrictions on EU nationality players.

Don't really know what Blatter is smoking since the top European clubs will never stand for it. Even if all the clubs swallow it, you can just wait for a player who can't play because of these rules to file a court case and it will all break down like a house of cards.

As for the problem of lesser English players breaking through, I would say go fix the stupid problem at the root. Its not as simple as foreign players taking away the places - look at Spain and Italy, they don't have this problem even though they have to work with the sudden influx of foreigners. You still have players like Bojan, Silva, Navas, etc, coming out.

Placing a quota wouldn't suddenly make the English team become world beaters. FFS, fix the coaching, the youth development system and get rid of the catchement restrictions.

[cice2]

This issue says something about the lateral thinking skills of football ruling body. The fact is EU law cannot be broken but UEFA law can be set. Therefore do not impose quota but deduct league points for team that cannot make the 6+5 average at the end of the season. That will break no law and forces teams to comply.

[jamiehex]

I have always hated Blatter. Sooner he passes the better.

[IbrahimAliMaher]

I think I would be screwed. I'm a championship club and have quite a few British players, but unfortunately most of them are Scottish, so unless they qualify under a UK passport I'd only have 5 members of my current first team squad that are English. There's a real dearth of English youth prospects in my game, apart from the odd kid in my reserves/U-18s that have come through the youth system I haven't been able to find any English players that are good enough, but there are plenty of Belgians, Scots and Dutch players.

[Simply Perfect]

Saying it would make no difference is not strictly true: FIFA is also proposing that it takes 5 years in every country to be 'nationalised'. So, the likes of Ronaldo won't yet be classed as home-grown, and I also believe that unless he's capped by England, will always be classed as one of the five.

What I'm wondering is, will the 6 in England be English or UK Passport holders?

[D. Doyle]

Originally posted by Nene_Park_Faithfull:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulHartman71:
tbh, in recent years the Scottish and Northern Irish national teams have played better than England's, if anything their leagues will get better.

I disagree, just look at the World Rankings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean the rankings in which england have dropped and scotland have gained?

the same rankings that pit england 1 place above scotland?

Give it time.

[mlp071]

Seriously , if you read world press, you will find that only EPL is against it.Not even English FA is against it.

Everyone else but them and some politicians in EU don't want the change.

It will be good change for world , and maybe not so good for EPL.Oh well...

And it doesn't look that anyone feels sorry for them due to Scudamore and his arrogance in the past.

I wouldn't have any problems, since i always play "all country " games , ex. if i play in Sweden , whole team is Swedish.

Only if i get to Top league in country , i maybe will get 2 or 3 non-nationals.

[Peljam]

Originally posted by htygyr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MTC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the rule may refer to the match day but it is still illegal because it stops foriegners from playing, therefore not working, therefore going against eu law

But it doesn't stop them from playing, it is still possible to select any foreign players, just as long as there are only 5 of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



yeah but as you can only pick 5, if u have 6 forigners, then one can't play everyweek due to the law therefore its illegal </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It depends I suppose on what the definition of working is for a footballer. If playing matches is an integral part of it then you're right. If one player can't play because they are foreign, even for just one match, then it would be illegal.

If playing matches isn't though then it technically wouldn't be illegal as the foreign player could still work, they just wouldn't always be taking part in matches.

For example for my career I sometimes have to give presentations. It's part of the job but it's not always. Sometimes I don't have to do any, sometimes other people do them. I'm still working though.

I don't know how it's defined. In one sense if playing matches all the time, when fit, is part then why are there appearance fee's? Surely they would become redundant and could just be incorparated into the main wage. But then again, conditional work permits often hinge on the percent of games played, implying matches are an integral part of the the definition. Not my area of expertise

I hope the rule doesn't get brought in really. It doesn't seem the right way to go about it. I think any enforced quota in any sort of job is a bad idea. The best people should get the job, regardless of anything else. But I do think, to encourage the groth of home grown talent that teams who keep the faith with youngsters, English ones in this case, should be rewarded for it.

Then again other countries, some with smaller populations and less prestigious leagues, don't seem to have the English problem with having National side level talent.

[MTC]

Originally posted by htygyr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MTC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the rule may refer to the match day but it is still illegal because it stops foriegners from playing, therefore not working, therefore going against eu law

But it doesn't stop them from playing, it is still possible to select any foreign players, just as long as there are only 5 of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
yeah but as you can only pick 5, if u have 6 forigners, then one can't play everyweek due to the law therefore its illegal </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's clearly a silly argument: By the same logic, as you can only pick 11 players, if you have 12 players, then one can't play every week therefore it's illegal to have only 11 players on the pitch…

…I'm off topic aren't I? Well this would make the game more difficult to play, but I wouldn't mind as I like the 6+5 rule.

[madog308]

this would be deadly for me. i could manage it but it would cost alot of money to buy the best british players. however i think i would get annoyed and just move to spain(where most of my team comes from) where they already have a only 3 foreigners rule

[YesYesOhYay]

i think it could actually make the game more realistic, because after 3 seasons with Bolton i was able to sign Ronaldinho!

so, this would mean that it is more likely that you would be buying players at the same level as your club, slowly progressing forward, like real life

[turn it upto 11]

would be a lot easier to change the homegrown rule like someone has already said, put it down the about 7 then at least the players will have grown up in england and be able to play for england, wheras signing someone at 15 and traing them to get round the rule the kid has alread ychosen to play for spain etc.

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by turn it upto 11:
would be a lot easier to change the homegrown rule like someone has already said, put it down the about 7 then at least the players will have grown up in england and be able to play for england, wheras signing someone at 15 and traing them to get round the rule the kid has alread ychosen to play for spain etc.

It isn't a case of clubs abusing the homegrown rule to get around things: The homegrown rule and the 6+5 rule have two entirely different motives.

The intention of the homegrown rule is to improve the quality of and the focus on a club's youth system. The idea is that this will also indirectly lead to better English players, while also encouraging clubs to bring in young foreign players and nurture them well, rather than just giving away tens of millions to foreign clubs for players when they're already established internationally.

The intention of the 6+5 rule is to directly increase the quality of English players by limiting the number of non-English (British?) players any particular club can field. This would obviously lead to a short-term downturn in the quality of football played in the English leagues, as teams will be forced to play English players that previously weren't good enough to be in the starting XI, but the idea is that over time, this will lead to clubs focussing more on English youngsters.

[jedclough]

England will never produce as many good players as Brazil because let's face it Brazilians littely drink, sleep, and smoke football.

It might be this reason or it might be the fact that Brazil is the fifth largest and fifth most populous country on the planet. Football is one of the only ways out of poverty for many young Brazilians, so has a huge intake. Also, Brazil's league is pretty unattractive a proposition compared to Europe, so there are fewer foreign players in the domestic league. There really is no mystery as to why Brazil are the best, it's a huge country with lots of footballers. The Netherlands on the other hand...

Compare it to this country: A rich country with many different sports for youngsters to get into(football, cricket, rugby), but with also a massive emphasis on careers. Football is not really encouraged as a viable career at school. Added to this is a pretty bad drink and diet culture!

The point I'm making is, that there is no point trying to compare this country with Brazil. Even if we bring in a quota scheme, we will still struggle to bring through a constant crop of excellent players. However, the way things are going, we will soon end up in a position where our international squad are the only English players in the league! Just go to the BBC website and look at the gossip section and count how many players being touted are English. I don't particularly like Sepp Blatter but it would be remiss of him (let's not even talk about the FA, because it should be them being concerned) to ignore the issue. We are fools if we think there isn't a problem!

[shajt]

Surely someone such as Manuel Almunia (off the top of my head) would qualify as 'English' as he has never played for Spain and will next year gain British citizenship, or does it not work like this?

[amplifierworship]

Originally posted by shajt:
Surely someone such as Manuel Almunia (off the top of my head) would qualify as 'English' as he has never played for Spain and will next year gain British citizenship, or does it not work like this?

I think this is something else UEFA are stopping soon.

[Themistofelis]

This will never pass from the EU commission , players get bonuses from appearances , goals etc ; players not having equal chances in that money because of their nationality is against EU philosophy.
Blatter is a racist pig , we are all equal European citizens so why the hell matters where any of us is born ?
The first who sue will bring the law down.

[chaddy101]

Im curious, I know EU laws treat everyone equally and so forth but the is it really preventing them from working because they are not in the starting eleven?

They are still going to get paid, they could still come off the bench and they have every chance of making the next starting eleven.

Im sure a football contract includes training and such like as part of the job.

[DrEdwierd]

Real Life, dont like it, Cant see what it would add to the game.

FM would just be a mild annoyance but 6 is alot :/

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by chaddy101:
Im curious, I know EU laws treat everyone equally and so forth but the is it really preventing them from working because they are not in the starting eleven?

The reasoning is that it is seen as discrimination based on nationality. They might be getting paid and they might be training, but they would stop being played simply because of where they were born rather than being less skilled. I think this is what the EU was getting at when they said it would be illegal.

[llama3]

tbh the 6+5 would kill my team. i have 3 english first teamers: Richards, walcott and bartley. and frankly only richards is a first XI player. I buy whats right for my team and cheapest. but most of my players are signed from spain where the release clauses plus registration of squads and that issues that throws up makes signing players all the more easy.

[PMLF]

Blatter is a racist pig , we are all equal European citizens so why the hell matters where any of us is born ?

Time to tell a European National Team in the World Cup then! And a European League too (instead of the local leagues)!

[Themistofelis]

Originally posted by PMLF:
Time to tell a European National Team in the World Cup then! And a European League too (instead of the local leagues)!

I totally agree on that , i don't see any reason to cheer for "our" national team beating other fellow union members in the incoming European championship.

[turn it upto 11]

Originally posted by Dreaded Walrus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:
would be a lot easier to change the homegrown rule like someone has already said, put it down the about 7 then at least the players will have grown up in england and be able to play for england, wheras signing someone at 15 and traing them to get round the rule the kid has alread ychosen to play for spain etc.

It isn't a case of clubs abusing the homegrown rule to get around things: The homegrown rule and the 6+5 rule have two entirely different motives.

The intention of the homegrown rule is to improve the quality of and the focus on a club's youth system. The idea is that this will also indirectly lead to better English players, while also encouraging clubs to bring in young foreign players and nurture them well, rather than just giving away tens of millions to foreign clubs for players when they're already established internationally.

The intention of the 6+5 rule is to directly increase the quality of English players by limiting the number of non-English (British?) players any particular club can field. This would obviously lead to a short-term downturn in the quality of football played in the English leagues, as teams will be forced to play English players that previously weren't good enough to be in the starting XI, but the idea is that over time, this will lead to clubs focussing more on English youngsters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



surely changing the homegrown rule would force clubs to look into ways of producing better talent, rather than this way, which i am against, will force clubs to pay silly prices to championship clubs for poor players(lets face it all the prem clubs wont have 4 or 5 youngsters ready to step up, so the championship teams will up thier prices)