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Thread: Goodbye FM 2008! Unrealistic, and a waste of time... Ruined a perfect series!

  1. #1
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    Having spent hours upon hours of playing FM 2008, I have decided to stop playing.

    I managed to take Notts County from League 2, to the Premier League within 7 years.
    Unfortunately, my team was not good enough, and we got relegated in our first season in the Premier League.
    Having managed to increase the balance from 0k in the first season to £30 million by season 8, I managed to get fired for getting relegated from the Premiership!
    I had the same chairman from day 1, the fans loved me, the financial status of the club was secure, and I managed to win the clubs first trophy in the League Cup!

    This has to be a bug, and now I have lost all interest.

    I have started playing Championship Manager (and I hope this is more realistic).

    In addition I have had to use in FM the most unrealistic tactics I have ever seen (I am a qualified UEFA B coach) and I assure you that the more ridiculous the formation is, the more success you get, even though they have major flawes in reality.

    Cheers Sega for screwing up a perfectly good game!

  2. #2
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    Having spent hours upon hours of playing FM 2008, I have decided to stop playing.

    I managed to take Notts County from League 2, to the Premier League within 7 years.
    Unfortunately, my team was not good enough, and we got relegated in our first season in the Premier League.
    Having managed to increase the balance from 0k in the first season to £30 million by season 8, I managed to get fired for getting relegated from the Premiership!
    I had the same chairman from day 1, the fans loved me, the financial status of the club was secure, and I managed to win the clubs first trophy in the League Cup!

    This has to be a bug, and now I have lost all interest.

    I have started playing Championship Manager (and I hope this is more realistic).

    In addition I have had to use in FM the most unrealistic tactics I have ever seen (I am a qualified UEFA B coach) and I assure you that the more ridiculous the formation is, the more success you get, even though they have major flawes in reality.

    Cheers Sega for screwing up a perfectly good game!

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    If you've gone to the current Championship Manager series, then you're wasting you're time.

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    bye.

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    I'll miss you

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    Adios amigo

    Enjoy Championship Manager...

    ...everything is sooooo realistic on that game and you'll be able to put your UEFA B coaching ability to good use there.

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    You'l come back like everyone

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    Silly Notts County fans!!!! they don't know what they are talking about!!!
    Maybe if they started talking some sense they would not be fighting a relegation battle in LGE2!!

    They are jealous of us FOREST fans on the good side of the river trent. UEFA coaching B badge, mayB you should manage county, but the again you wud not do that well with no money, crap players (especially the strikers) and a simply laughable fan base!!!!!!!!


    YOU REDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

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    Whereas Forest are so successful at the moment. Leading the third division is like arguing on the internet, it doesn't matter whether you win or lose because nobody actually cares.

    Fwiw, the original poster does have a bit of a point, but its been made several times in other threads, and I don't really see CM being any better.

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    Good bye - dont let the door hit you on the way out.

    Great game SI

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    I can see his point (about getting sacked not playing CM). He has taken his club to heights.

    One bad season and he's out of a job. This may be the case at some clubs that are used to success (eg. Real Madrid or other high rep clubs) but as a manager of Notts Cty he would still be treated like a god after all that he's achieved.

    He clearly deserves another season to win promotion back. This needs sorted.

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    It's all very well making good points, but if you're just going to rant, it's not at all constructive.

    And if you're just planning to quit playing the game anyway, what exactly do you expect of us? There's no point trying to help or to explain anything.

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    quote:
    Originally posted by Coop:
    I can see his point (about getting sacked not playing CM). He has taken his club to heights.

    One bad season and he's out of a job. This may be the case at some clubs that are used to success (eg. Real Madrid or other high rep clubs) but as a manager of Notts Cty he would still be treated like a god after all that he's achieved.

    He clearly deserves another season to win promotion back. This needs sorted.


    Does he deserve another season? We don't know how badly he's done. It's not on the same scale, but look at Billy Davies at Derby. He got them promoted against the odds last season, yet, he gets the axe because Derby are doing badly, which, lets be honest, isn't the slightest bit suprising. And if he set expectations high, and failed to meet them, then they have every right to get rid of him.

    There are problems with confidence, but I don't really see this being one of them.

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    I have to agree with Coop, but think about it on Real Life...
    Zico is like a football hero on Japan, he started the sport there. So, they give them a job as manager of their international team. Sadly he couldnt have a good run in the world cup and lost even the games he was supposed to win. So... they sacked him. Yes, he did great things and such but he couldnt do it now and that is what matters. I mean, he had an entiry season(and probably a good transfer budget to get the team better) and couldnt stay on first division. The team will probably sack him, but his reputation should guarantee him a good team to manage now, as we can see zico is on Fehernbace now and doing a great job

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    quote:
    Originally posted by Luiz Hemerly:
    I have to agree with Coop, but think about it on Real Life...
    Zico is like a football hero on Japan, he started the sport there. So, they give them a job as manager of their international team. Sadly he couldnt have a good run in the world cup and lost even the games he was supposed to win. So... they sacked him. Yes, he did great things and such but he couldnt do it now and that is what matters. I mean, he had an entiry season(and probably a good transfer budget to get the team better) and couldnt stay on first division. The team will probably sack him, but his reputation should guarantee him a good team to manage now, as we can see zico is on Fehernbace now and doing a great job


    Spot on. If a manager takes his club to the Premiership from League 2, a chairman won't be sentimental and keep him there if he can't hack it at the top. Billy Davies took Derby to the Premiership, and was sacked. Look at it this way, if you had a striker that was scoring loads for you from League 2,League 1, Championship and then in the Premiership he played awfully and couldn't cut it, would you keep hold of him? Or would you look to replace him with someone who would be successful in the top level? It's the same with managers, especially in the Premiership at the moment.

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    While i agree entirely with what you've said, there are better ways to get your point across, rather than just moaning.

    On a related note, CM is dire. If your definition of "realistic" is easy to the point of tedious then CM won't dissappoint.

    As to your UEFA B coach status - i'll spell it out for you - this is essentially a game - the majority of players DO NOT have the qualifications needed to manage a top club - therefore making the game expect such theories to work would alienate the majority of their target audience.

    Basically Jeff the plumber isn't going to know diddly about your qualifications, but still needs to be able to play the game.

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    quote:
    Originally posted by Kain:
    Whereas Forest are so successful at the moment. Leading the third division is like arguing on the internet


    So very grown up of you

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    quote:
    Originally posted by mr_notts_county:
    the more ridiculous the formation is, the more success you get, even though they have major flawes in reality.



    He has a point here- I think it was FM05 that I last played a regular 442.

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    Well I play the most standard 442 you could imagine and have had great success. Some people just need to dedicate more time to the tactical side of the game and find a balance.

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    quote:
    Originally posted by iacovone:
    Well I play the most standard 442 you could imagine and have had great success. Some people just need to dedicate more time to the tactical side of the game and find a balance.



    i agree man. maybe UEFA didnt teach you well. or maybe ur trying to hard to apply real life skills to the game. no matter hw realistic or unrealistic u find the game in, its still a game run by the back-end mechanisms.not by god. THERE'S BOUND TO BE FLAWS. and thats what makes the game fun to play.

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    quote:
    Originally posted by Coop:
    I can see his point (about getting sacked not playing CM). He has taken his club to heights.

    One bad season and he's out of a job. This may be the case at some clubs that are used to success (eg. Real Madrid or other high rep clubs) but as a manager of Notts Cty he would still be treated like a god after all that he's achieved.

    He clearly deserves another season to win promotion back. This needs sorted.


    we dont know how bad he has performed i took bath city to the championship and got two double relegations and yet they did not sack me, it could of been he put his season expections high just to get more money to spend and therefore having unrealstic expections the board felt he underachieved.

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    Maybe we should ask SI to create some Wailing Wall were al those people who claim to quit (but still post here! ), cry about the match engine and other things can moan.

    That would free up the space a little in this forum.

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    Wow some typical fanboy responses... UEFA B coach things the tactics are unrealistic = "it's just a game don't expect it to be realistic". If another poster said they found tweaking game tactics frustrating you'd probably say "this is a realistic simulation. go play FIFA instead".

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    I think the game can be very frustrating at times and some odd decisions to say the least are made but lets be honest this does happen in real life too!! Dust yaself down and get back on the managerial ladder son!!!

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    I take his point it does seem slightly unrealistic that he took Notts County to the Prem in 7 seasons.

    As for getting sacked look at the amount of managers who have taken their clubs through the leagues don't manage to maintain the high position and get sacked because of it.

    I'm fed up with people moaning about how unrealistic the game is re: shots to goals, getting sacked etc. Then you ask them about their game and they have won the CL with Wolves, totally realistic.

    It's a sim for crying out loud.

    Enjoy CM it's just brilliant especially the buy a player confirma nd he gets the contract you offered at his current club bug. Woop woop.

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    BTW people keep moaning about the tweaking of tactics and complain that IRL managers don't say "I want you to attack by 12 today" etc. I wonder how many managers IRL monitor their players progress with a score of 1-20 or decide on their selection because of the 1-20 score for tactics they have in front of them.

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    i really don't understand why people feel the need to gang up and flame people who complain about aspects of the game. especially when, as in this case, the person complaining has valid points.

    very few people would deny that the new confidence system in fm08 is extremely flawed. i've personally been blamed for poor results that happened to the club before i joined it, told off over poor club finances when i've stuck well within the wage and transfer budgets, and criticised for not making long term goals that i actually have made. at the same time i've been praised for things the club hasn't actually achieved (making it into europe when i hadn't even come close).

    i find it hard to believe that a manager who'd achieved three promotions in seven years as well as a league cup win would be sacked. using derby as an example is pointless, as davies had achieved only one promotion, had a poor relationship with the club's new chairman, and looked like setting a new record low points total for a premiership club.

    all this is a moot point, seeing as the confidence system has led to people being sacked or not getting a new contract despite overachieving on all the targets the board set them. there's no point trying to defend a sacking as realistic if the game is going to do stuff like that.

    cm may not be very good, but by most accounts it's improving a fair bit every year, while the fm series continues to stagnate without a real rival to compete against

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    quote:
    Originally posted by Nomis07:
    BTW people keep moaning about the tweaking of tactics and complain that IRL managers don't say "I want you to attack by 12 today" etc. I wonder how many managers IRL monitor their players progress with a score of 1-20 or decide on their selection because of the 1-20 score for tactics they have in front of them.


    Your missing the point entirely here.


    The problem with a 20 point scale is twofold:

    1) If there are very subtle differences between notches then the changes in play and the effects of a change will be so small that most players will not notice a change in play. Meaning that it makes educated changes very difficult, as well as making the result of the changes almost impercievable.

    2) If there are significant changes in the effects between notches then seemingly minor tweaks in a tactic can have huge effects that are out of sync with the changes the user will have felt they made with a one notch tweak.

    So essentially by choosing 20 notches SI have ensured that certain tactical options have to operate at one of two extremes. Theres just no middle ground or median here.

    IMO SI should just give us 5 notches instead of 20- Eg never, occasionally, mixed, often, all the time.

    It would solve all the tactical issues with the game but it certainly remove the feeling that we are tweaking with either too little or too much effect.

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    Argh! I meant to say "wouldnt solve all the tactical issues".

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    Lionized when promoted, sacked when relegated - no, that could never happen IRL.

    If you want to play, play. If you don't, don't. Either way, enjoy.

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    quote:
    Originally posted by George Graham:
    Argh! I meant to say "wouldnt solve all the tactical issues".


    Got it.

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    quote:
    Originally posted by mr_notts_county:
    Cheers Sega for screwing up a perfectly good game!


    Not that your point is either valid or well founded, but... what the sheeps pinky has Sega got to take the blame for?

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    quote:
    Originally posted by McDoul:
    quote:
    Originally posted by mr_notts_county:
    Cheers Sega for screwing up a perfectly good game!


    Not that your point is either valid or well founded, but... what the sheeps pinky has Sega got to take the blame for?


    Well his point could be more than valid - he hasn't given enough information for you to assume either way - but anyway... i think the remark about sega is that it is entirely possible that deadlines set by a publisher could cause a game to be released before it was ready - not saying that is the case here, just that it is a possibility.

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    quote:
    Originally posted by mr_notts_county:
    Having spent hours upon hours of playing FM 2008, I have decided to stop playing.

    I managed to take Notts County from League 2, to the Premier League within 7 years.
    Unfortunately, my team was not good enough, and we got relegated in our first season in the Premier League.
    Having managed to increase the balance from 0k in the first season to £30 million by season 8, I managed to get fired for getting relegated from the Premiership!
    I had the same chairman from day 1, the fans loved me, the financial status of the club was secure, and I managed to win the clubs first trophy in the League Cup!

    This has to be a bug, and now I have lost all interest.

    I have started playing Championship Manager (and I hope this is more realistic).

    In addition I have had to use in FM the most unrealistic tactics I have ever seen (I am a qualified UEFA B coach) and I assure you that the more ridiculous the formation is, the more success you get, even though they have major flawes in reality.

    Cheers Sega for screwing up a perfectly good game!


    The bug you mention in your post is well documented on the forums and will be sorted out by SI.

    As for your claim about tactics in the game, it is not a UEFA B licence that is required to become good at this game - it's the patience to have a look on the forums and read what others have written. How many times have you been on the tactics forum to read how others are achieving success in the game? How much time have you spent looking at the manual to see what it says about setting tactics?

    It's not real so your UEFA B licence will not help you. It's a game, so your attitude towards having fun and learning how the game works WILL help you.

    There are flaws with the game in general and the match engine, but again SI know this and everyone that's been involved with the series for any time knows that the forthcoming patch will address most of the issues - but not all of them, because as I've said ..... it's a game.

    And finally (but seriously), if you are going to drop this game in favour of another, is there any chance I can buy your copy for a nominal fee? My six year old son (who also plays the game and has great success with his Athletico Madrid team) would like his own copy. He doesn't have a UEFA B licence by the way, but he understands football and more importantly how to play computer games.


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    quote:
    It's not real so your UEFA B licence will not help you. It's a game, so your attitude towards having fun and learning how the game works WILL help you


    Speaking as a lowly NSCAA Class B coach, I echo that. The first thing you have to understand is that the tactical interface (including the dreaded sliders) is a proxy for the reality of the game, not a recreation of it. In order for a computer, even with the best processors available, to recreate every kind of decision and action on the pitch would take so much processing time that you'd be lucky to complete a season in real time.

    So, like every other computer sim, FM takes some shortcuts on reality. I'm always amazed that there are as many people out there as there are who get inside the game, expose the problems, and find out what makes it tick. It's a testament to the SI crew that there are so few "cheats" that are ever fleshed out in this game.

    But, if you don't like it, then by all means try something else. Cheers.

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    quote:
    And finally (but seriously), if you are going to drop this game in favour of another, is there any chance I can buy your copy for a nominal fee? My six year old son (who also plays the game and has great success with his Athletico Madrid team) would like his own copy. He doesn't have a UEFA B licence by the way, but he understands football and more importantly how to play computer games.


    Superb

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    In your first season in the premier league you should set your board expectations as low as you can. So if you do get relegated they are not disappointed. If you set your expectations to stay up and dont of course they ma sack you.

    I took Northampton from league 1 to the premier league and in our first year we stayed up by one spot. But our expectations were low and i was acheiving the boards long term goals. You need to match those, if you dont you may get sacked.

    I think it is realistic that you got sacked, these things happen in football cop it onthe chin and move on.

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    quote:
    Originally posted by Just Jack:
    Good bye - dont let the door hit you on the way out.

    Great game SI


    For what its worth, FM08 is NOT a great game. A good game, yes, but far too flawed to be great.

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    quote:
    And finally (but seriously), if you are going to drop this game in favour of another, is there any chance I can buy your copy for a nominal fee? My six year old son (who also plays the game and has great success with his Athletico Madrid team) would like his own copy. He doesn't have a UEFA B licence by the way, but he understands football and more importantly how to play computer games.


    brilliant!! i really did lol!!

    we know its not a perfect game, nobody is trying to say it is, but there's no point quitting just cos you get the sack after some success. you can bet Billy Davies will be back in a job soon enough (god help the club) he's not gonna retire from management because he got Derby promoted and then they sacked him.

  40. #40
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    A UEFA B licence doesn't make you a good manager, just as a business studies degree doesn't make you a multi-millionaire. Qualifications don't teach you to think for yourself, or adapt when real life (or simulated real life) is different to theory.

  41. #41
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    quote:
    Originally posted by George Graham:
    quote:
    Originally posted by mr_notts_county:
    the more ridiculous the formation is, the more success you get, even though they have major flawes in reality.



    He has a point here- I think it was FM05 that I last played a regular 442.


    i always play 442 and have never had any problems

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    Mr Notts had a game tactic that worked - the comment was the game tactic that worked, did not reflect RL tactics. As a football sim the tactics should be biased to RL rather than Super Tactics.

    Not much point in sorting out a bug at later date after spending many hours building a reputation in the "game". Although if have a pre sacking save could wait for the bug fix or take over as a new manager.

    A few comments from a UEFA B coach on tactics should be welcomed.

    In order for AI teams to play in different style, I assume team attributes control this, then perhaps reason for 20 notches is to allow for a number of styles to be played otherwise it will be Man U each week.

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    quote:
    Originally posted by gunnerfan:

    If you want to play, play. If you don't, don't. Either way, enjoy.


    i think what most people want is to play, but not to have long term games ruined by bugs

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    quote:
    Originally posted by knap:
    Mr Notts had a game tactic that worked - the comment was the game tactic that worked, did not reflect RL tactics. As a football sim the tactics should be biased to RL rather than Super Tactics.

    Not much point in sorting out a bug at later date after spending many hours building a reputation in the "game". Although if have a pre sacking save could wait for the bug fix or take over as a new manager.

    A few comments from a UEFA B coach on tactics should be welcomed.

    In order for AI teams to play in different style, I assume team attributes control this, then perhaps reason for 20 notches is to allow for a number of styles to be played otherwise it will be Man U each week.


    agree. there shouldn't be any tactic that works no metter what, not to mention super tactics. every match is smth new, so it means that you have to have playn for each and tweak on each match. also good advice for people who want RE is to play only formations that AI plays.

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    Last year I graduated from the Football manager University here in Rotterdam. It took me 4 years and even now I sometimes lose a match

    To bad I skipped some of those tactical seminars.

    few seasons ago a dutch coach got fired for ending second in the league, **** happens.

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    quote:
    Originally posted by mr_notts_county:
    Having spent hours upon hours of playing FM 2008, I have decided to stop playing.

    I managed to take Notts County from League 2, to the Premier League within 7 years.
    Unfortunately, my team was not good enough, and we got relegated in our first season in the Premier League.
    Having managed to increase the balance from 0k in the first season to £30 million by season 8, I managed to get fired for getting relegated from the Premiership!
    I had the same chairman from day 1, the fans loved me, the financial status of the club was secure, and I managed to win the clubs first trophy in the League Cup!

    This has to be a bug, and now I have lost all interest.

    I have started playing Championship Manager (and I hope this is more realistic).

    In addition I have had to use in FM the most unrealistic tactics I have ever seen (I am a qualified UEFA B coach) and I assure you that the more ridiculous the formation is, the more success you get, even though they have major flawes in reality.

    Cheers Sega for screwing up a perfectly good game!


    I wouldn't give up so easily.....that scenario is all very realistic.

    If you like buying players such as Ronaldinho for Derby County then CM is definitely for you...I bought Ibrahimovic for Pompey when I played CM, and their were a host of other players that would jump at the chance of plying their trade down at Fratton Park, all highly paid international stars....I gave it all of five minutes.

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