Editor Killing The Game?

[yNnOs]

Keep coming across A LOT of posters saying that they check a players PA on the editor before signing them, was just wondering if anyone else thought this was cheating? And even if people don't see it as cheating, doesn't slightly take away the aspect of gambling on a player!?

[Richardav]

true.but i use it to make myself or transfer players and managers to other clubs like in real life

[Rogue66]

Keep coming across A LOT of posters saying that they check a players PA on the editor before signing them, was just wondering if anyone else thought this was cheating? And even if people don't see it as cheating, doesn't slightly take away the aspect of gambling on a player!?

Each to there own to be fair. If thats how people like to play I dont see a problem with it.

[jayahr]

The editor has one main purpose which you seem to overlook: It enables us to edit the database which we might want to do for many reasons. As such it is extremely valuable.

Even if it wasn't there, there will be scout tools which serve the purpose of cheating when scouting. Actually, way easier than via the editor and way better as the editor can only show PA and CA before the game starts. You cannot check progress in the game nor regens.

If somebody likes to use this tool to cheat, there is no reason to remove the useful tool altogether just because they might. It serves an important purpose and it's entirely up to any user if he wants to cheat or not as long as it isn't used in multi-player games.

Utterly pointless thread

[SmurfDude]

It IS cheating (but the Editor is useful for much more than that)

But if they can live with that, then so be it, it's their choice how to play their game

I'm of the Peter Molyneux way of thinking. Actions and consequences make for a more enjoyable experience, therefore buying a player based on your own judgment rather than looking up their PA, leads to more enjoyment regardless if they turn out to be crap

[yNnOs]

Don't get me wrong I'm all for the editor, was just commenting on the amount of people that actually use it to check the PA. By the way it might be a pointless thread to you but these forums are here for people to discuss anything "FM" therefore I don't see it as pointless, plus it got a few paragraphs out of you!

[jayahr]

Don't get me wrong I'm all for the editor, was just commenting on the amount of people that actually use it to check the PA. By the way it might be a pointless thread to you but these forums are here for people to discuss anything "FM" therefore I don't see it as pointless, plus it got a few paragraphs out of you!

"Editor killing the game?" is not exactly fitting what you just wrote, is it?
So what you actually intended to say was "Is this cheating?" and "Isn't cheating bad?". A yes to both.

And you are still telling me that this deserves a thread on here?

edit: If you are <17 years old I apologize.

[baker.simon]

Does the real life English Premier League or La Liga or any real league have an editor? No, thought not thats why i never use it! Each to there own though!

Personally i, like all real life managers, like to live or die by my decisions! The purpose of the game IMO is that you start off with an accurate squad of players, then over the game years you try to mould your team using conventional methods, ie training, scouting etc!

Still, as was said earlier everyone has the right to play their game their way!

[glamdring]

The real life Premier League and La Liga is precisely that - real life. FM is a game that relies on all its researchers to get its player stats and everything else as accurate as possible as an estimation of that real life - that is always subjective so I have no probelm at all with an editor being included for people to tweak aspects they feel are incorrect. Obviously a lot of people use it just to give their team more money, better players or whatever rather than to try to improve what they consider realistically incorrect player data or whatever, but that is entirely their choice.

Personally I rarely use the editor, but when I do it is often just to add in new towns/villages (real ones obviously) in the vicinity of the club I am managing in the hope that some of the regens I get through my club's youth system will come from those towns (so far they never seem to have done and only youth players at other clubs miles away sporadically come from these newly added towns, but still, it's worth a try).

As for checking CA and PA, as has been said above, people use 3rd party scouting programs for that unless they actually want to edit the CA/PA rather than just check it out before buying a player.

Again, I never check CA or PA because yes it would kill my enjoyment of the game, but I don't care if other people do - the only issue with that is when they come on here bragging about achievements that were achieved through "cheating" or they start claiming there are bugs because their edited game does things they don't want, etc, etc

[StewieGriffin]

I think the OP may be confusing the editor with applications like FMM and Genie Scout, which some people do use to find the best players or modify players attributes.

I would think the vast majority of people use the editor to adjust the database to reflect what has happened in real life since the database was created and the games release.

I suppose there will be a few people that may alter financial information but at the end of the day the editor is essential as some of us will not buy FM every year and therefore need to be have the ability to adjust the database when starting new games.

[Themistofelis]

Cheating in Single player ? LOL
such thing does not exist

[yNnOs]

No I'm not confusing it with genie scout, I was merely commenting on the fact I've read many a post where people have said they have checked the database for a particular players PA. For the last time, I am not slagging off the Editor, just making an observation and asking for peoples opinion on it.
And sorry if the title of my thread confused you, you were not made to comment. Forums are here to discuss your opinions on certain aspects of the game and that is merely what I have done. To suggest I am 17 based on this is a childish act on your part, not mine!

[SmurfDude]

Cheating in Single player ? LOL
such thing does not exist

Of course it does. Wall hacking on counterstrike isn't the only definition of cheating

[Themistofelis]

Of course it does. Wall hacking on counterstrike isn't the only definition of cheating

and who exactly you are cheating ?

[FrazT]

This subject comes up all the time- the object of any computer game is to give the buyer full enjoyment from its purchase- there is nothing on the box that says what can and cant be done. The purists will say it is spoiling the enjoyment, the majority will say, who cares?

It is therefore clear that the buyer can use whatever means he thinks of to give him that level of enjoyment and it is not for any other person to pass comment on that, one way or the other. Each to his own.

[SmurfDude]

and who exactly you are cheating ?

I guess you have never heard of the phrase "cheating the system"

To violate rules or regulations is a form of cheating and basically what you are doing when not playing a game as it was intended

An in no way am I saying people shouldn't do this, as it is only a game. I'm just disproving your point

[Oncho Shaldzhiyan]

This is simply a game, everyone can enjoy it in his own way.. I am not using the editor, but anyway can not attack this of us, who are doing that.

[jayahr]

No I'm not confusing it with genie scout, I was merely commenting on the fact I've read many a post where people have said they have checked the database for a particular players PA. For the last time, I am not slagging off the Editor, just making an observation and asking for peoples opinion on it.
And sorry if the title of my thread confused you, you were not made to comment. Forums are here to discuss your opinions on certain aspects of the game and that is merely what I have done. To suggest I am 17 based on this is a childish act on your part, not mine!

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you are that young. Just if you were I would have felt that my response should have taken into account that your posts might have been influenced by natural immaturity. Well, apparently that excuse does not apply.

You are asking if people think it is okay when other people cheat. Fair enough. Looking forward to an in depth discussion

[jayahr]

and who exactly you are cheating ?

You are cheating yourself imho if you cheat in a single player game. Fair play to those who do that. I wouldn't enjoy my game anymore if I did.

[Spleen!]

The editor is useful for things like swapping leagues, not only 'cheating'.

[cmontheloknow]

The only game I cheat at is Patience.

But on the subject of FM, the editor is a highly valuable tool for the serious gamer who wants the experience to be as close to reality as possible. I added about 2000 Scottish staff to my own db in a past version in order to get a better and more realistic transfer market.

[glamdring]

Cheating yourself doesn't count though unless you are so weak-minded that it spoils your enjoyment of the game, but you still find yourself doing it anyway because you can't stop yourself. I agree that in my opinion checking player PAs (amongst other things) is cheating yourself, I just feel that people who care about that won't do it and people who don't obviously don't feel they are cheating themselves, they are just enjoying the game their own way.

Cheating "the system" doesn't really count either in my opinion because it is relatively meaningless. Who cares if you cheat an inanimate object? If an official editor is included with the game it's debateable whether you can say that using it is "not playing the game as it was intended"

[Svenc]

You are cheating yourself imho if you cheat in a single player game. Fair play to those who do that. I wouldn't enjoy my game anymore if I did.

Exactly - obviously, as with just about anything, this is a very personal thing. "Cheating" is an option you may take or leave, it's all up to you. But to badmouth people for having fun would be taking this way too far. After all, in the end, there's but two valid reasons to buy Football Manager: To ensure Miles Jacobson will further be able to park his Lamborghini Reventon outside the SI offices, Sports Interactivetown, Engerland. And to have some fun yourself. That's a subjective, personal thing. You're free to do anything you wanna, and I totally fail to see what's bad about it.

[Themistofelis]

You are cheating yourself imho if you cheat in a single player game. Fair play to those who do that. I wouldn't enjoy my game anymore if I did.

This is called "i play the game the way i like it " ,this is how i enjoy the game and none can dictate me what to do and what not to do in my PC . I totally respect your way of gaming looks like we enjoy it differently .

I guess you have never heard of the phrase "cheating the system"

To violate rules or regulations is a form of cheating and basically what you are doing when not playing a game as it was intended

An in no way am I saying people shouldn't do this, as it is only a game. I'm just disproving your point

Why i shall care about Devs intentions and who says that i am wrong and they are right?
Talking about scouting ( which is the issue here ) in game scouting only gets you better players from those you have , playing in Portugal or Russia almost everyone is better but i am not looking for better i am looking for best ; so scouting system is built to suit LLMs and not me -genie or in game editor only makes it more suitable for me .
I can go on about how to fix super greys , make market way more alive and prices way more realistic but it would be out of topic ; in short "watching player's CAs" is narrow-minded since the editor is capable of making many more things ... but you need to "cheat" to learn how things work ...

[SmurfDude]

It's irrelevant who cares, the fact is it's still technically cheating. But enough on that now

[jayahr]

This is called "i play the game the way i like it " ,this is how i enjoy the game and none can dictate me what to do and what not to do in my PC . I totally respect your way of gaming looks like we enjoy it differently .

As I said, I totally don't judge on anyone who does it as long as others are not affected.

[bRAzIL]

Keep coming across A LOT of posters saying that they check a players PA on the editor before signing them, was just wondering if anyone else thought this was cheating? And even if people don't see it as cheating, doesn't slightly take away the aspect of gambling on a player!?

It's cheating. But if people buy the game then who cares, just don't come on here boasting how good your team is.

Each to their own but not for me.

[bRAzIL]

The editor has one main purpose which you seem to overlook: It enables us to edit the database which we might want to do for many reasons. As such it is extremely valuable.

Even if it wasn't there, there will be scout tools which serve the purpose of cheating when scouting. Actually, way easier than via the editor and way better as the editor can only show PA and CA before the game starts. You cannot check progress in the game nor regens.

If somebody likes to use this tool to cheat, there is no reason to remove the useful tool altogether just because they might. It serves an important purpose and it's entirely up to any user if he wants to cheat or not as long as it isn't used in multi-player games.

Utterly pointless thread

Don't post on it then....

[neilb242]

I like signing players without using the editor to test my judgement, and if I can spot a bargain, or a solution to problem.

But I also like looking at the editor, mostly out of interest. I'll search it to see who the researchers on the game think will be the next big stars. Whether I use that information to my own end in my game is intirely my own choice. But because of the editor I've found myself watching out for young players, tipped for big things in the fm world, in the real world.

Just for an example of this, the Arsenal game that was on Sky Sports last night, before FM08 and looking at the editor, it would have been a group of talented players, whom only a couple I would have been aware of, but now I was particularly keen to watch a couple I wouldn't have heard of otherwise.

[glamdring]

Just for an example of this, the Arsenal game that was on Sky Sports last night, before FM08 and looking at the editor, it would have been a group of talented players, whom only a couple I would have been aware of, but now I was particularly keen to watch a couple I wouldn't have heard of otherwise.

I developed a grudging dual admiration/hatred for Carlos Vela from FM08, but that came through playing the game and him constantly being a thorn in the side of my Derby County team (and me never being able to prise him away from Arsenal ) for some 8 or so seasons.

[DANNY1000000]

The editor is fantastic but I cant help myself when it comes to checking PA although I use genie scout.
I would love to restrain myself.

:-( I just cant help it.

[glamdring]

Don't download it. Then you won't need to have to help yourself

[neilb242]

I developed a grudging dual admiration/hatred for Carlos Vela from FM08, but that came through playing the game and him constantly being a thorn in the side of my Derby County team (and me never being able to prise him away from Arsenal ) for some 8 or so seasons.

Ah, now if you use the editor you could make him useless!

[yNnOs]

I find it pointless to use Genie Scout! Judging how good a player's ability is and whether or not they will fit into your team is a major aspect of the game. I Don't have no problem with people using them as long as they don't come on these forums claiming the have found fantastic wonderkids!

[glamdring]

Ah yes, but then if I turn to the dark side where would it end...I'd make Arsenal, WBA, Man Utd, Liverpool all useless...

[Carl87]

Regarding the editor I did something I quite regret: I was playing FM07 and just before FM08 came out (5-10 days before) I went in the editor and created a dream team and I got bored within 2 days. I thought it would have been fun.

Has anyone else done this?

[glamdring]

I find it pointless to use Genie Scout! Judging how good a player's ability is and whether or not they will fit into your team is a major aspect of the game. I Don't have no problem with people using them as long as they don't come on these forums claiming the have found fantastic wonderkids!

Aww, but surely that is what the GPG forum is for...for the kids to go along there and try to claim they are the first person to "discover" some amaxingly talented young player just because they looked up his PA in a scout program

[glamdring]

Regarding the editor I did something I quite regret: I was playing FM07 and just before FM08 came out (5-10 days before) I went in the editor and created a dream team and I got bored within 2 days. I thought it would have been fun.

Has anyone else did this?

Aye, I've dabbled with doing unrealistic things in the editor from time to time and then got bored!

Twice I've created a brand new team to add to the Scottish league (not with great players, just top youth facilities for "potential") - both times I did actually play the game for a few seasons, but it never quite had the same feel as a normal game.

[neilb242]

Regarding the editor I did something I quite regret: I was playing FM07 and just before FM08 came out (5-10 days before) I went in the editor and created a dream team and I got bored within 2 days. I thought it would have been fun.

Has anyone else done this?

Yeah, I moved a team of world class players to Everton, upped our rep and stadium and so on. Got a reserve team of the best prospects.

Got boring quickly, every day people were bidding for the players, there was too much talent at the club to keep happy. I found the worst thing from this was that there was no point searching and buying players since you had the best already.

[Carl87]

It's strange really, because the prospect of having the best players at your club sounds really exciting.

It goes to show it doesn't always work that way.

[DivineOne]

The only time I use the editor is to put myself in it. I never buy myself though, not the first 5 years anyway, that would be cheating (as i make myself quite good offcourse ).

[DANNY1000000]

Don't download it. Then you won't need to have to help yourself

lol I cant help doing that either. I hate myself for it

[Super Striker]

I think it 'ruins' online games, all my mates just buy the all the cheap young foreigners with huge PAs. But I suppose if you've got trustworthy mates it ain't a problem.

[Carl87]

But I suppose if you've got trustworthy mates it ain't a problem.

Or naive.

[Number Nine]

I'm sure a lot of people use it because the in game scouting system isn't that reliable. You can have scouts with decent judgement stats but with terrible ability (which is hidden) who will tell you all kinds of guff about players.

[Pr3D@T0r]

I don't see the fun in checking players' PA, and don't feel that players who do this and post their achievements here are better players than those who don't use the editor to do this.

Saying that, if you enjoy playing the game that way, I wouldn't judge, but I wouldn't respect your achievements in-game. Not that it matters either.

[Abs_UK]

Well I have not read the thread fully…

Anyway I really don’t see anything wrong with the editor as it serves as a very good tool especially for season updates for people who do not buy every version of the Game.

People always talk about the game being realistic, what are the chances of anyone here walking into a top team?

I always play 2 save games, 1 with the original database and one like a fantasy game with edited teams, players making new nations etc and I do not consider that cheating.

Everyone has the right to play the game as they wish, I have always said that as long as they do not use editors in network games then its all good.

[stevie_G_32201]

i play a few games and i like the editor tbh. i create my own teams sometimes and add them but i never get into those game but will still do it and try every year. the editor is very usefull. if you dont like it just dont use it.

[Philip Rolfe]

I'm sure a lot of people use it because the in game scouting system isn't that reliable. You can have scouts with decent judgement stats but with terrible ability (which is hidden) who will tell you all kinds of guff about players.

Scouting's never an exact and accurate science in real life anyway.

People can play the game however they like really, never bothers me too much personally.

[dexta200]

i use it doesnt ruin my game, you play it your way ill play it mine and everyone else will play it theres.

[stevie_G_32201]

whe you pay for the game you pay for the right to use it how you want to.

[DevonSpurs]

Just because its there, doesn't mean u have to use it

[Mike7077]

I've always wondered why people get het up about others using in-game editors and scouting programmes. It's not as if Joe Bloggs in Felixstowe using FM Genie Scout automatically unveils all CA and PA stats on everybody's game! If said Mr. Bloggs chooses to use Genie Scout or Modifier in the privacy of his Felixstowe bedroom, it doesn't affect anyone else.

[stevie_G_32201]

its not like one day your walking to the shop and then suddenly you feel your a lot better at football is it? ingame editors dont affect the real world so they dont affect you. the only people they affect are the people who use them and thats thier choice.

[yNnOs]

I've always wondered why people get het up about others using in-game editors and scouting programmes. It's not as if Joe Bloggs in Felixstowe using FM Genie Scout automatically unveils all CA and PA stats on everybody's game! If said Mr. Bloggs chooses to use Genie Scout or Modifier in the privacy of his Felixstowe bedroom, it doesn't affect anyone else.

Well wonder no longer, I shall tell you. people get annoyed not with people using them, that is entirely up to them, but with people then claiming they have found the player legitimately! Now I don't care either way, but a lot of people do and you have to respect that.

[Mike7077]

Well wonder no longer, I shall tell you. people get annoyed not with people using them, that is entirely up to them, but with people then claiming they have found the player legitimately! Now I don't care either way, but a lot of people do and you have to respect that.

Why would you let it bother you if someone is claiming that? You don't have to take them seriously. It's not like you're competing with them.

[Themistofelis]

"found legitimately" eh?

Well , using Genie i (and i bet most of the people who use it ) look for players with high PA , +170 or for some playing really low leagues +160 , the thing is that you can "legitimately" find a player with PA 150 that can play super in his position , people using third party (or official) editors will never do because they never look for PA <160 players.

And another thing about modifier , FMM is a trainer , this means that you can hand edit a guy from your academy with PA 200 and the right stats for his position so FMM users will not come and claim that they found a player either.

[HonkyDick]

Well wonder no longer, I shall tell you. people get annoyed not with people using them, that is entirely up to them, but with people then claiming they have found the player legitimately! Now I don't care either way, but a lot of people do and you have to respect that.

I agree, I don't care what people use with their game, it's theirs and it's up to them.

I just hate seeing the weak "scouts aren't good enough" excuses, like they expect the scouts to give them some kind of response that will basically nominate the player's PA.
Imagine in real life if a scout could narrow down a players PA they'd be worth their weight in gold.

Also when people are bragging on here you don't know whether they're legit or have been using these cheats, so I have no time for the records threads and don't take notice of other bragging statements. Which is a shame because there'd be a few good ones but you just never know.

[yNnOs]

^^^^^ Exactly the point I was trying to make!

[Soup_is_cool]

Editor killing the gamer? Didn't we pay for the game? Them we do whatever we want with it! In fact, without the editor, how in the hell would you create teams/players or player transfers? The editor adds fun to the game. I personally don't use it to "cheat", but i can use it to modify some little aspects if im not happy with the current situation.

Dont be offended but this is a useless thread.

[Smileslikefak]

It's personal

[yNnOs]

Well if you would of bothered to read a least a few of these posts you would of realised that the title is probably a little misleading and that the post is merely asking for peoples opinions on what they think of using the editor to find out players PA! if you see it as a pointless thread don't comment on it! The majority of the other 50+ posters do not see it that way!

[Ramos]

It's totally up to the individual player's choice. I personally would never look at it as I want as realistic an experience as possible. The only thing that does my head in is when people use the editor or worse still FMgenie and then come on here and bang on about how good they are and how the game is too easy!!

[Carl87]

I remember finding unknown [to me] gems in FM07 such as:

spoiler:

Saivet, Sakho, Eduardo*, and Wijnaldum

I hadn't heard of them beforehand and I felt really pleased with myself to have found them via the scouting system and help nurture their talents.

*from Botafogo

[Soup_is_cool]

Well if you would of bothered to read a least a few of these posts you would of realised that the title is probably a little misleading and that the post is merely asking for peoples opinions on what they think of using the editor to find out players PA! if you see it as a pointless thread don't comment on it! The majority of the other 50+ posters do not see it that way!

Them construct your posts/post titles in a way everyone can understand please.

[baker.simon]

There are 2 ways to look at it i suppose!

1) Are people that use the editor affecting my personal game? No

2) Do people that post on here about "finding" world class hidden talent through the editor and/or genie scout affect me? Yes!

If you want to use the editor to find players, fine! But dont post about your "findings" on here to ruin it for other people! Or if you just cant help yourself im sure the good player and team is guide is the place to put it! That way the purists, like me and many others know where to avoid looking!

[stevie_G_32201]

ive been keeping away from GPTG for a while so i dont get ruined

[Ozzy38]

I don't see the appeal of ever using something like that, finding out PA and crap.

What's the point in playing if the youngsters you've blooded through are a bunch of Ronaldos, Ronaldinhos Bobby Moores and Peter Schmeichels? I suppose if you're depressed and/or lonely and you have nothing going for ya...

[Mortified Penguin]

I've never used the editor to find out PA, I'd much prefer to sign players using my own judgement... It makes buliding a promotion/championship winning side so much more rewarding.

[shamardal]

I've personally used it to improve or disimprove certain players that I thought were overratted or underrated even tho they werent in my team, for instance, torres needed to be improved on certain occasions, also the 'godlike' adebayor' needed to be toned down a few notches especially on fm08. Others come to mind, agbonglahor, messi needed improvement etc. ibrahimovic needed toning down aswell.

In my opinion this sort of use improves the game, some people get so anal about using editors, its only a game ffs. Also for a a few years ago it seemed like their was just a continuous arsenal 'bias' in general to the game, which in my opinion was not accurate enough.

[BradfordCity7]

its not cheating as its only their PA. sometimes they reach their potential sometimes they dont, its all about how you nurture your talent.

and for the people who say they dont use it because its cheating... you must start new games after playing for many seasons right? and when you start the new games you will know the majority of players that make it and the ones that dont. the more games you start the more you know who has the best potential. you dont have numerous chances at starting again in real life either but is that cheating??

[macca72]

The editor is a great part of the game, without it we (well me anyway) would get bored so much quicker.

Personally i use it only to add / amend players who are missing from their correct teams / not well known.

I used it in FM08 to add Fabian Delph and Aiden White into the Leeds side. Was great to be able to replicate the new season when it started without waiting for FM09.

Also, if you've not played a retro database, or a legends one, you don't know what your missing. Rekindled my love for 08 no doubt.

The editor isn't killing the game. It's offering everyone who uses it the opportunity to create their own scenarios and mould the game in their own way. IMO that's brilliant.

[DJ]

I don't touch the thing with a bargepole. I hardly know what PA and the likes mean and I want to keep it that way. Using an editor would well and truly spoil the game for me.

Each to their own.

[jod123]

I could not care less what way people play the game. If they play by strict LLM rules it is up to them or if they use the editor to look at players PA it is up to them.

Anyway you cannot "cheat" in a single player game. They can lie about how well they did in their game but they do not need an editor to do that.