FM 2008 crap

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

Hi

I am a user of your product year in and out, I have to say that I find that every year your game gets less and less realistic, when I am promised it should become more. I think most people would agree that we want a game where if you build up a good team you expect to beat so called lesser teams, not every time, but the majority. I was recently Aberdeen and played 3 home game against Falkirk, St Mirren and Kilmarnock, 3 tough fixtures, I was in my second year and had a formidable squad, the stats where as follows:

TEAM GAME SHOTS SHOOTS ON TARGET SCORE
Aberdeen 1 18 7 0
Falkirk 1 2 1 1

Aberdeen 2 15 9 1
St Mirren 2 3 2 2

Aberdeen 3 23 11 1
Kilmarnock 3 4 4 3

I have compared every player in each team and I can swear that all my players where better, my tactics cant be to bad as I was sitting 2nd in the league prior to these games, if you can show me stats of this happening to a real team I will except it, but please when you say realistic this is the area you have to sort out, apart from that the game is good, but your scaring people away with this stupidity, as you will see when you read reviews of the game.


Rgs Andy.

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

Hi

I am a user of your product year in and out, I have to say that I find that every year your game gets less and less realistic, when I am promised it should become more. I think most people would agree that we want a game where if you build up a good team you expect to beat so called lesser teams, not every time, but the majority. I was recently Aberdeen and played 3 home game against Falkirk, St Mirren and Kilmarnock, 3 tough fixtures, I was in my second year and had a formidable squad, the stats where as follows:

TEAM GAME SHOTS SHOOTS ON TARGET SCORE
Aberdeen 1 18 7 0
Falkirk 1 2 1 1

Aberdeen 2 15 9 1
St Mirren 2 3 2 2

Aberdeen 3 23 11 1
Kilmarnock 3 4 4 3

I have compared every player in each team and I can swear that all my players where better, my tactics cant be to bad as I was sitting 2nd in the league prior to these games, if you can show me stats of this happening to a real team I will except it, but please when you say realistic this is the area you have to sort out, apart from that the game is good, but your scaring people away with this stupidity, as you will see when you read reviews of the game.


Rgs Andy.

[masteR+_+]

Great statistics, taking only 3 matches into consideration, congratulations

[NepentheZ]

Andy, i swear to lucifer that you will get flamed for this, but i CAN, and i put my FM'hood on it, that with a few tweaks of your tactics turn those chances into goals.

I wont, because thats your job as manager but a few little things will make a massive difference.

You've probablys tried "other things" in that department, but it took me 5 seasons to get my tactic set good enough to win leagues...

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

Message never work out properly but the stats where as follows:
Hi



TEAM /GAME /SHOTS/ SHOOTS on TARGET /SCORE
Aberdeen 1 18 7 0
Falkirk 1 2 1 1

Aberdeen 2 15 9 1
St Mirren 2 3 2 2

Aberdeen 3 23 11 1
Kilmarnock3 4 4 3

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

masteR+_+ I aint just taking 3 games into account, I am using these 3 games to show the flaws in FM 2008, if you can show me a sequence of 3 results like I had in football history ill eat my words, the game is flawed and every year gets worse, this aint just me, look at the reviews on web sites selling it.

[Themistofelis]

I agree it is tragic
AI plays in a way that the engine understands humans play as they want and engine can not respond .It isn't about tactics or players it is about beating the engine .

[NepentheZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:
I agree it is tragic
AI plays in a way that the engine understands humans play as they want and engine can not respond .It isn't about tactics or players it is about beating the engine . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, yes it is about tactics.

I used to be under the impression i was being ripped off, i was having 30+ shots, 15+ on target and 0 or 1 goals. The CPU had 3/4 shots and scored 3/4 goals. I read the Tactics forum in depth, and tweaked a few things on my tactics, and now i have 18-25 shots, but score 3+ goals nearly EVERY game. I still concede a lot, but thats because i have a very attacking formation, and a shoddy defense to boot. I suggest you guys heed what i learned in the tactics forum, as it will make your FM experience a lot more enjoyable.

[NepentheZ]

Just to further my point...

This season reads.....

Played - 25
Won - 21
Scored - 85
Conceded - 24

And i am by no means a "super team", nor do i have good players. I am.... Knockbreda. I'm 16 points clear in the league, and its ALL down to tactics...

[Themistofelis]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Erm, yes it is about tactics.

I used to be under the impression i was being ripped off, i was having 30+ shots, 15+ on target and 0 or 1 goals. The CPU had 3/4 shots and scored 3/4 goals. I read the Tactics forum in depth, and tweaked a few things on my tactics, and now i have 18-25 shots, but score 3+ goals nearly EVERY game. I still concede a lot, but thats because i have a very attacking formation, and a shoddy defense to boot. I suggest you guys heed what i learned in the tactics forum, as it will make your FM experience a lot more enjoyable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok so to play the game i need to go in tactics forum and read a crapload of pages in order to understand how i can beat the engine, thank you for the info.
+30 shots should score 10 goals minimum despite tactics , players or anything.

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

Na I am not buying it, I have downloaded all these tactics online and tried them, people boasting about winning this and that league, played the tactic and had the same result, and tweak, I have tweaked that much I should be called Rafa.

[jimi m]

Yes this happens me all the time,sometimes having 20 shots on target and winning 1 nil.Just the other day I played Everton and had 18 shots on target with rooney,eto and tevez up front and lost 1 nil to everton even though it was there second shot of the game in the very last minute...********

[NepentheZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Erm, yes it is about tactics.

I used to be under the impression i was being ripped off, i was having 30+ shots, 15+ on target and 0 or 1 goals. The CPU had 3/4 shots and scored 3/4 goals. I read the Tactics forum in depth, and tweaked a few things on my tactics, and now i have 18-25 shots, but score 3+ goals nearly EVERY game. I still concede a lot, but thats because i have a very attacking formation, and a shoddy defense to boot. I suggest you guys heed what i learned in the tactics forum, as it will make your FM experience a lot more enjoyable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok so to play the game i need to go in tactics forum and read a crapload of pages in order to understand how i can beat the engine, thank you for the info.
+30 shots should score 10 goals minimum despite tactics , players or anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you are under the impression teams IRL score 1 every 3 shots no matter what? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. And no, you dont have to go and trawl through 100 pages to get a good tactic, thats just what i chose to do. You can just as easily spend weeks and weeks developing your own, finding out exactly how to work the tactic yourself

30+ shots, doesn't happen regularly IRL, admittedly, but 1 goals every 3 shots NEVER happens game on game on game. And with a tweak of your tactics, 25+ shots returning 3 goals a game im sure will make you happy, so yea, maybe you should go into the tactics forum...

[robertodibaggio]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
masteR+_+ I aint just taking 3 games into account, I am using these 3 games to show the flaws in FM 2008, if you can show me a sequence of 3 results like I had in football history ill eat my words, the game is flawed and every year gets worse, this aint just me, look at the reviews on web sites selling it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The previous three Liverpool games prior to the Middlesboro game at the weekend.

Man City V Liverpool Liverpool 19 attempts 8 on target sover 0-0.

Liverpool V Wigan Liverpool 21 attempts 8 on target score 1-1

Luton V Liverpool Liverpool 12 attempts 5 on target score 1-1.

[NepentheZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
Na I am not buying it, I have downloaded all these tactics online and tried them, people boasting about winning this and that league, played the tactic and had the same result, and tweak, I have tweaked that much I should be called Rafa. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Downloading a tactic is NOT the answer.!!!!

Someone had a winning tactic with THEIR set of players, not yours. YOU need to develop your own tactic. You wonder why you are struggling, when all you are looking for is a quick fix to win? May aswel use FMM or the Editor mate

Its not a sprint, its a marathon...

[polegategavin]

The whole essence of FM is that it is a simulation of a real life sport (football). The idea is that it is set up to give the gamer enjoyment by replicating the football world. But the realism ends at the point where the real players are included in the database along with the real teams.

The idea of all games is to understand the 'mechanics' of the game to achieve the best results. You don't complain when playing an army simulation that the Germans win your game of World WarII as this is an achievable outcome from the 'game', no game claims to repeat real life, it wouldn't be any fun if games did this as you'd know what to expect before you started playing.

With FM08 as NepentheZ has stated you need to tweak your tactics to suit your players to enable them to react as the game expects them to to achieve the results, and for every game it is different.

Once you master the techniques for setting up tactics appropriately, using the opposition instructions (which IMHO is they key) and team talks accordingly then the results will follow.

But as with real life don't expect everything to happen to the form book. Happily FM08 replicates the unpredictability of football nicely, thank you...

[Themistofelis]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:
but 1 goals every 3 shots NEVER happens game on game on game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
TEAM /GAME /SHOTS/ SHOOTS on TARGET /SCORE
Aberdeen 1 18 7 0
Falkirk 1 2 1 1

Aberdeen 2 15 9 1
St Mirren 2 3 2 2

Aberdeen 3 23 11 1
Kilmarnock3 4 4 3
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look what the AI did

[NepentheZ]

SI THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.!!

Ok, so i've just played away from home against one of the better teams, Portadown.

I had,....

22 Shots, 11 on target 4 goals.

they had.....

20 shots, 10 on target 1 goal.

When will this be fixed please, its ruining my game

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

totally disagree, I am not jumping in here looking for a quick fix, I am talking after months playing, tweaking tactics I have done for all the previous FM's, but ever new edition gets further from reality, this is not just me saying this, go read the reviews, just because you think you have mastered it, the majority think its crap, the whole package looks good but the game play is getting worse, I understand the world of football is not straight cut but show me 3 sets of results as above and ill agree, not what your saying roberto, im talking about oppostion stats.

[Barside]

How many more of these threads do we need in GQ.

This really should be in the bugs forum, there is a dedicated thread on this issue in there & you can upload your save games for the testing team to look at in regards to a fix.

Also I recall Paul.C coming onto the forum a while pack stating that the way shots are calculated had been changed & yes they messed up put it is being looked into.

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

well nepenthez we can only dream about being as good as you eh!

[Chilliconcarnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:
SI THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.!!

Ok, so i've just played away from home against one of the better teams, Portadown.

I had,....

22 Shots, 11 on target 4 goals.

they had.....

20 shots, 10 on target 1 goal.

When will this be fixed please, its ruining my game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

am i the only one who does not see a problem with these stats?

You just played a blinding game and your keeper was god for the day...

Top teams do lose to lower end teams you know...

[NepentheZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
totally disagree, I am not jumping in here looking for a quick fix, I am talking after months playing, tweaking tactics I have done for all the previous FM's, but ever new edition gets further from reality, this is not just me saying this, go read the reviews, just because you think you have mastered it, the majority think its crap, the whole package looks good but the game play is getting worse, I understand the world of football is not straight cut but show me 3 sets of results as above and ill agree, not what your saying roberto, im talking about oppostion stats. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Set 1
Set 2
Set 3

Set 1 -

AI -

Shots 21
On Target 12
Goals 0

Me -

Shots 22
On Target 13
Goals 4

Set 2 -

AI -

Shots 23
On Target 16
Goals 1

Me -

Shots 27
On Target 12
Goals 3

Set 3 -

AI -

Shots 20
On Target 10
Goals 1

Me -

Shots 22
On Target 11
Goals 4


So now you agree? I have plenty of games like this.... i could give you AT LEAST 10 more examples... want'em?

[NepentheZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chilliconcarnie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:
SI THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.!!

Ok, so i've just played away from home against one of the better teams, Portadown.

I had,....

22 Shots, 11 on target 4 goals.

they had.....

20 shots, 10 on target 1 goal.

When will this be fixed please, its ruining my game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

am i the only one who does not see a problem with these stats?

You just played a blinding game and your keeper was god for the day...

Top teams do lose to lower end teams you know... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry buddy, i was being sarcastic to the OP. Im actually knockbreda.. I know, what a game

[Barside]

Linkage to a GQ thread that Paul C posted in on this exact issue.

here.

[NepentheZ]

Oh no, its happened again....

[NepentheZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:
Oh no, its happened again.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, wrong link... this one should work...

Oh no, its happened again (again)....

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

What are you talking about?, I said REAL life stats I want to confirm game is realistic, not you showing me stats that I see on my own game, and keppers do play blinders, but im talking about goals against if you look at original message.

[NepentheZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
What are you talking about?, I said REAL life stats I want to confirm game is realistic, not you showing me stats that I see on my own game, and keppers do play blinders, but im talking about goals against if you look at original message. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I showed you what you wanted to see, now you want to see something different? What sort of stats do you want? Me having 20+ shots scoring 3+ goals and the CPU having 6 or 7 shots scoring 1 goal? i have those too, just name it...

[Themistofelis]

Barside thank you for the link

Developer's post just confirms my first post , AI plays in a way the engine understands humans play in a way engine does not ; it also confirms that the % of scored shots is relying on a code rather than in player's skills , tactics or anything.
Combine those two facts to see the obvious , why all this happens.

p.s. when i grow old i wanna be like NepentheZ

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

Im talking about losing 3 games in a row at home against lesser teams as shown in the stats above, I believe you have these cause you have the same game, what im saying is it is not realistic, you get it???

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

ask themistofelis cause he gets it if you get stuck

[NepentheZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
ask themistofelis cause he gets it if you get stuck </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its you whos stuck mate

Im winning, with good stats, you're not...

[Barnzy]

I really hate the rolleyes smily it really really annoys me, basically someone making a good point becomes sarcastic or patronising.

Needed to get that off my chest.

[Passer-by]

So you've hit a bad run of fault and your players misfire, so why come and add to the tally of demanding threads here.

[homerjnick]

[QUOTE]but a few little things will make a massive difference.QUOTE]

That is true of FM08.

That is NOT true in real life.

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

god this is hard work, not a bad patch, its a totally un realistic patch, thats my point, if you agree or disagree dont matter, as I keep saying show me a run of REAL life results as I got and ill take all this back, **** tweaking tactics, there fine, just game need adjusted.

[NepentheZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by homerjnick:
[QUOTE]but a few little things will make a massive difference.QUOTE]

That is true of FM08.

That is NOT true in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know,? Are you a REAL LIFE football manageR?

[Barnzy]

You dont adjust width 1 click in real life and it has such impact it has in the game.

[homerjnick]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by homerjnick:
[QUOTE]but a few little things will make a massive difference.QUOTE]

That is true of FM08.

That is NOT true in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know,? Are you a REAL LIFE football manageR? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No but common sense prevails in that my team will lose 3-0 versus a weaker team then I tweak my tactic eve so slightly by one notch and win 3-0 in FM08.

IRL that doesn't happen. Tactics are the be all and end all in FM08 whilst IRL they are NOT that important as it is player skill.

[Mike7077]

I don't know where to start with this one.

Firstly, the OP has taken Aberdeen to second in the table. So surely he's had some pretty excellent results along the way.

Secondly, is it really so rare to batter teams and still fail to win? And, yes, it can happen in consecutive games. Liverpool are considerably better than some of the teams they've failed to beat lately. But it happens.

My suggestion would be to keep working at your tactics. Just a couple of tweaks here and there. Before you know it, especially if your team is as good as you say, you'll find yourself on a winning streak again.

[Barnzy]

I think tactics are the be all and end all, you can have a great bunch of players but be disorganised and rubbish (England) or have a bunch of organised players and win (Greece), the problem with the game is that a click to many and you upset the balance of the team, where as in real life you would go out and say "chaps play a fast paced long ball game while defending deeply and counter attacking".

Its been said many times before tactics need to have more of an explanation and some feedback, its also a known issue that there is a problem with chances created/scored.

[RSCA4Ever]

Yes "tactics", "team talk" and "opposition instructions" do make the difference.
If your team is creating lot's of chances but not scoring, it's due to pressure!!!
This comes either from media or even from yourself.
Telling your wingers and strikers individual at halftime that there is no pressure on them, and by telling the others that you are pleased would probably have done the trick!
That's all the help i give you, you deserved those results only for telling FM is crap here!

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

Mike7007: I seen the stats for Liverpool, but my point is more with regards to one team have the chances converted against them and failing to score with so many. The away team has a conversion of around 85% over 3 games, the home team has a rate of around 4%, these are rough figures but you see my point.

[xouman]

tactics are too important. And one winning tactic may fail if rival is aware, this is because sometimes crap teams beat you just after you kicked a giant ass.

If you play against a defensive team, change your tactic. Don't have just 1, at least have two and maybe tweak them.

[rinso]

hmmm

not agreeing with the o/p as it very rarely happens in my game, but all this in a champions lg semi final?! lol i swear i aged ten years watching the commentary

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

4.10.2008, Pittodrie Stadium

Aberdeen-St. Mirren
22Shots3
11On Target2
11Off Target1
45%Possession55%
1Corners0
21Free Kicks20
21Throw-Ins13
14Fouls21
6Offsides0
67%Passes Completed66%
58%Crosses Completed-
42%Tackles Won62%
76%Headers Won34%
2Yellow Cards4
0Red Cards1

Notice the red card which was in the 48th min, guess the result? 2 nil to St Mirren, I know this happens, I have never once doubted that, but 3 times in a row!!!

[Jimbokav1971]

Can you post a screenshot of your fixture list and then screenshots of the 3 matches in a row where you were beaten by a team that had a player sent off in each match.

Thanks .

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

player sent off happened only in this match, this is a seperate match to the sequence shown above, that game was deleted after i replaced the mouse i smashed up

[Mike7077]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
Mike7007: I seen the stats for Liverpool, but my point is more with regards to one team have the chances converted against them and failing to score with so many. The away team has a conversion of around 85% over 3 games, the home team has a rate of around 4%, these are rough figures but you see my point. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying that this happens a lot? Or just in the games you referred to in your original post?

I ask because if it's the previous, then surely, by logic, you wouldn't have made it to second in the league.

And if it happened only in the games you mentioned in your original post, then can you not put that down as an unfortunate sequence of events, as a real manager would have to, and try to figure out what you can do to get it sorted out?

[Jimbokav1971]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
Can you post a screenshot of your fixture list and then screenshots of the 3 matches in a row where you were beaten by a team that had a player sent off in each match.

Thanks . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">player sent off happened only in this match, this is a seperate match to the sequence shown above, that game was deleted after i replaced the mouse i smashed up </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't think you could .

[Join my list]

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

what are you talking about baw bag, sorry Jimbokav1971, never said a player got sent of 3 games in a row, I said in the is game which I got beat in, which is similar to the sequence of results i posted, when it happens again with coventry, my new team, i will post it.

[Barnzy]

What is this list you speak of Jimbo?

(ps dont use the rolleyes)

[RSCA4Ever]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
what are you talking about baw bag, sorry Jimbokav1971, never said a player got sent of 3 games in a row, I said in the is game which I got beat in, which is similar to the sequence of results i posted, when it happens again with coventry, my new team, i will post it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What he is talking about is that you are claiming here FM is crap and you lost 3 games in row that you dominated with 20+ shots on goal vs a couple of shots, but you don't provide us with screenshots!
When you making claims like this better show some proof or better post it IN the bugs forum and upload your save game to the SI server!!!

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

18, 15 and 23 shots, I will post it when it happens again, which it will.

[Mike7077]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
18, 15 and 23 shots, I will post it when it happens again, which it will. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course it will happen again. Most teams experience defeat of this nature at some point. In fact, it tends to be the better sides that suffer this kind of defeat. They may not lose often, but when they do, this is generally how they lose. And, as you stated, your team is second in the league.

[Jimbokav1971]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
What is this list you speak of Jimbo?

(ps dont use the rolleyes) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My ignore list.

ps why on Earth not ?

[Mirrork]

i fully agree on the poster...i have tons of chances and rarely score while the opponent has perhaps 20 % shots and shots on goal and still beats me...its ridiculous

[Mike7077]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mirrork:
i fully agree on the poster...i have tons of chances and rarely score while the opponent has perhaps 20 % shots and shots on goal and still beats me...its ridiculous </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What are your strikers' stats for finishing and composure?

[alstonrick]

It is NOT NOT NOT your tactics even though many will try a tell you it is. Which really infuriates me :-(

I believe it is a problem with this game, as I have had the same thing,

I was top of the league by xmas smashing everyone in sight, then bang, all of a sudden (I was still smashing everyone in sight - shots on/off, possesion etc.) but my whole team could not score :-( and I kept losing matches I was dominating.

Dont tell me, that by xmas the AI has figured out my tactics so now I need to 'tweak' them. If this was the case, I wouldnt be creating the 'good' chances in the first place and still dominating games.

AND, when was the last time Man Utd changed the way they play after the oppostion had so called 'sussed' their tactic? Answer is NEVER because they let the oppostion worry about them and let their world class players do what they do best, play fast attacking football.

[RSCA4Ever]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
18, 15 and 23 shots, I will post it when it happens again, which it will. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will try to help and make some sense why this can happen.
Ever considered after your last years 2nd place that maybe your strikers and better players hoped for a wage raise?
Maybe they react now to this by not scoring anymore!
This game is very logical but you can often miss small things that can lead to bad results and imo FM08 is very punishing when you do forget things.
To you these stats seem not fair, but looking through the eyes of your players not getting a wage raise after an incredible season also isn't fair to them.
On the other hand in many occasions i noticed that morale and pressure have much effect on games, maybe that could also be the case.
But yes something is wrong when you do have such results in row, but i can assure you this itself isn't a bug, otherwise every game would end with the dominating team losing.
This is more due to something you don't do or maybe did wrong in their eyes before those games.

If this happened to me in last case i would change my tactics because they create chances obviously.
But at least tweaking them and having good team talks and opposite instructions could help a lot.
Also i would check my strikers wage demands, by offering them a new contract.
If they ask for much more then their current wages, then you can be sure that's the problem.

I hope this helps you out somewhat.

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

Zarate and Thiago up front for Aberdeen, and some bloke called McGarry for St Mirren, my scout rated my goal kepper as twice that of theres and the same for the my strikers over there one, look the point of the whole thing is that FM2008 is soooooo..... unrealistic with the shots to goal ratio for human players end of.

[Mike7077]

I'm still struggling to understand how you're second in the table if this keeps happening to you?

[Jimbokav1971]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alstonrick:
It is NOT NOT NOT your tactics even though many will try a tell you it is. Which really infuriates me :-(

I believe it is a problem with this game, as I have had the same thing,

I was top of the league by xmas smashing everyone in sight, then bang, all of a sudden (I was still smashing everyone in sight - shots on/off, possesion etc.) but my whole team could not score :-( and I kept losing matches I was dominating.

Dont tell me, that by xmas the AI has figured out my tactics so now I need to 'tweak' them. If this was the case, I wouldnt be creating the 'good' chances in the first place and still dominating games.

AND, when was the last time Man Utd changed the way they play after the oppostion had so called 'sussed' their tactic? Answer is NEVER because they let the oppostion worry about them and let their world class players do what they do best, play fast attacking football. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not happening to everyone which would suggest that it IS IS IS IS tactics which influence this.

Without ever going into the T&TGF, I have developed a tactic which gives pretty much the opposite stats that may of you are providing.

I don't get infuruated with idiots spouting garbage anymore. I just add them to my list.

[Onizukaeikichi]

just make a tactic that crowd the oppostion box and you will win. I won the league 4 years in a row with liverpool and i am on holiday all the time except during the summer transfer window

[RSCA4Ever]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
I don't get infuruated with idiots spouting garbage anymore. I just add them to my list. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn that list must be long after last months posts here!

[alstonrick]

Fair enough Jim, but how can it be my tactics when im still dominating games, having plenty of good chances / shots on/off target??

So what has suddenly gone so wrong with my tactics? The answer is nothing!???

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

sorry mike when did I say it happens all the time?, it happens, but thats is still not the point, it should never happen, all you people that are saying it dont happen will be the people that save the game and re load it when results dont go your way, I have several friends and they all experience the same problems with this game, read the reviews on Play.com, I aint making this up, all notice the amount of goals scored on 5,12, 45 and 72 mins, its a joke, and whilst I am at it why do we watch the stoppage time tick down everytime when we are winning, but when trailing the time just shoots by.

[Jimbokav1971]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSCA4Ever:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
I don't get infuruated with idiots spouting garbage anymore. I just add them to my list. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn that list must be long after last months posts here! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

384 and rising.

[Jimbokav1971]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alstonrick:
Fair enough Jim, but how can it be my tactics when im still dominating games, having plenty of good chances / shots on/off target??

So what has suddenly gone so wrong with my tactics? The answer is nothing!??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would suggest that you are creating the wrong type of chances in the wrong areas of the pitch.

Without giving the game away, if you are failing to score from loads and loads and loads of chances where your striker is 1v1 with the GK through the middle, try and create chances which sees the shots taken from a either a different position or a different player.

Or you could just close your eyes and carry on as you are.

[alstonrick]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Fair enough Jim, but how can it be my tactics when im still dominating games, having plenty of good chances / shots on/off target??

So what has suddenly gone so wrong with my tactics? The answer is nothing!??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My players suddenly cant hit a barn door, why is this world is this down to tactics!??

"Player x clean through (oh hang on this guys tactics are wrong) he blazes over! Even his manager has his head in his hands"

Please enlighten us Jimbo if these posts are so unfounded..............

[Mike7077]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
sorry mike when did I say it happens all the time?, it happens, but thats is still not the point, it should never happen, all you people that are saying it dont happen will be the people that save the game and re load it when results dont go your way, I have several friends and they all experience the same problems with this game, read the reviews on Play.com, I aint making this up, all notice the amount of goals scored on 5,12, 45 and 72 mins, its a joke, and whilst I am at it why do we watch the stoppage time tick down everytime when we are winning, but when trailing the time just shoots by. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, a lot of people who deny that it happens are exactly the kind of FM stalwarts who have played the game for yonks and would never reload.

And you can't say it should never happen. It DOES happen in real life!

[alstonrick]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would suggest that you are creating the wrong type of chances in the wrong areas of the pitch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These were the same chances, with the same tactics that were working brilliantly in the 1st half of the season though

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

the sad thing is I love the game, I just get depressed with the game play, and also the ammount of mouses I have smashed up due to seeminly 'normal' runs of results.

[RSCA4Ever]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajhyndman@gmail.com:
sorry mike when did I say it happens all the time?, it happens, but thats is still not the point, it should never happen, all you people that are saying it dont happen will be the people that save the game and re load it when results dont go your way, I have several friends and they all experience the same problems with this game, read the reviews on Play.com, I aint making this up, all notice the amount of goals scored on 5,12, 45 and 72 mins, its a joke, and whilst I am at it why do we watch the stoppage time tick down everytime when we are winning, but when trailing the time just shoots by. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why you say this should never happen?
I'm a Anderlecht fan and i seen my team irl lose some games in the past they totally dominated.
I also seen them sometimes win such games.
Did you read my previous post?
I gave enough reasons why this can happen and how to handle them.

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

again show me a run of results in real life where it has happened mike!!! remember home team conversion of 4% away 85% 3 games in a row, not on this planet with the stats i showed.

[Mike7077]

Manchester United 0-0 Reading
Portsmouth 1-1 Manchester United
Manchester City 1-0 Manchester United

United had far more shots in those games, especially the last. Okay, so two were draws. But it still shows that you can dominate a run of games and still not get the hoped-for results.

[ajhyndman@gmail.com]

RSCA4Ever: yeah I read it, but thats not the problem, I keep on tope of concerns as I know this could affect the team, they are creating chances with better players than the opposition but losing games, someone said shoot from different areas?? you mean changing to long shots and crossing from different areas, I have tried all this, the goals to shots ratio is wrong, I should just sign other teams strickers as the seem to score with a couple of chances, plus they are crappier than mine so will be cheaper.

[Themistofelis]

It is possible that you will find a tactical combination that beats the engine , nobody denies that, 2 days ago i beat Arsenal 8-0 playing Larisa (fm07 and i did have a decent squad with many CA +150 players ) , finish 1st in Greek championship with 28 wins and 2 draws and reach CL semifinal(losing to man utd because half of my players were in their national teams playing friendlies...) .
It took me 1 full year to find that a tactic with 4 flat back 3 MCs and 3 STs beats the engine but give it a thought , nobody on the planet plays like that , the purpose of the game is not to beat the engine , right?
What the 3 STs do is that when one of the side ones enter the area GK closes one side of the post then my striker passes to the other side and get my other ST alone with the net, or take a rebound if GK saves ... cheap trick if you ask me capitalizing on the fact that GKs rarely hold the ball and almost always send it to the center of the box when they block shots . Again this is a hole in the AI.
I use 2 DMs and an AM (with marking skills) as MCs to win the ball and feed it directly to the front men using "down both flanks" (the "side" STs are AML/ST-AMR/ST with dribbling and crossing skills+arrows pointing out) , if those 3 mid fielders have any decent speed it is very very hard for any AI team to penetrated my midfield , not to mention that using full backs (because of their speed) as CDs causes the funny engine reaction " Losing ball in the midfield-Long pass up front-Fast deep defending CDs clear the ball easily".
I am not writing all that in the purpose of a tactical lesson (after all this is not my tactic i just tweaked a friend's one and it is not played in fm08 ), what i want to show is a series of cheap tricks without any realism that take advantage of engine's holes (or the way AI plays) to win games.
A dedicated player after a crapload of games will be able to read the engine despite opposition tactics but why the hell any gamer would do all that? and how the feck playing something totally absurd and without any logic can be called "simulation" ?
Wouldn't it be better to spend 2 hours RTFM and then set up a regular 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 or whatever be the best team in the pitch and win games? or be the worst team in the pitch and lose ?
Being the best and not winning because you don't have the time or the mental strength to sit down play 1000's of games and read what AI can do and what it can not is just annoying.

[Barnzy]

Ah ignore list, I was hoping for hunt down and kill list but nevermind!

[Barnzy]

Again I think the match engine really struggles to show you a visual reprensentation of what is and isnt a good chance.

[Jimbokav1971]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
Again I think the match engine really struggles to show you a visual reprensentation of what is and isnt a good chance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with that too.

Your speedy striker runs on to a ball over the top through the middle and finds himself 1vv with the GK. In real life you, (or at least I), think that this is an excellent opportunity. In the game however it is very different. Conversely, your winger running on to a similar ball, (but out on the flanks), has a far better chance of scoring despite aiming at a MUCH smaller target and seemingly the GK being favourite to make the save.

In a lot of cases, thinking of real football will give you an inkling as to what works in the game. In this, (and other), instances however, it hold little or no comparison to reality.

I started making progress in the game when I started to consider the match engine as seperate to the real game of football. It doesn't mean that real football and tactics should be ignored, but the match engine is different and needs to be treated differently.

[Barnzy]

Maybe the winger has the better chance of scoring because the goal keeper knows that he has more options than a one on one striker, one on one striker will shoot at goal - keeper ready for save. Winger coming in from wide could shoot or pull ball into middle for striker to shoot - keeper in 2 minds goal scored for example.

[hogan23]

you must be crap at playing it, i think this version is better than ever and si are certainly going in the right direction!!

[Barnzy]

haha Charming hogan!

The OP already said he was doing well in the league but was questioning the realism of the game.

[GoGa70]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I started making progress in the game when I started to consider the match engine as seperate to the real game of football. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this is a problem

[backpackant]

http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?i...0032010ti6.jpg

I was Leeds, BTW.

[backpackant]

Not as extreme as some of the examples I've seen here, but just to highlight that it happens this way sometimes when you get the tactics right.

Tight as a duck's chuff 4-5-1 slow, short passing, defensive mentality for 70 mins, go all-out attack, direct, 4-3-3 until I score, then revert to original, but with Ultra Def, and time wasting.

I knocked Inter out of the Uefa cup 3-2 on aggregate with similar stats, although they were leading at one point and I used my all-out 4-3-3 to come back. Think I got 5 shots on target all game the second leg, scored 2, against their 15-20 shots, scoring 1. Am at work at the moment, but will try to remember the screenie later.