Game full of bugs unfortunately

I play football manager over ten years, what are you encounter this year I have not ever lived ...

From where I begin and where I finish ... The bugs have not endless .. I put a player after injury two games in a row and he protest that I don't use him... ... What to answer? ... player who has low morale I say that i trust him and his morale falls more.. Is this a joke ?

Those relating to the gameplay, and here the first time in ten years that I cant 'see' new season ... I pick Arsenal, Milan, Newcastle, Fenerbahce and Malaga and hopefully fired from all except Fener ... I take great teams play atacking result same ... I get small teams play DEFENCE same result ... I put great team to play DEFENCE the same ...

Usually precede and post somewhere on delays ACCEPT laminated finish and I take the tie or lose ...

Assuming the goal principle and play aggressively after losing definitely ... The logic is when you are back to playing offensive .... But if you do not play offence and play DEFENCE while I'm back I could get a draw ... incredible ... .

Whatever team I have when I ask attacking football I has few shoots , In defence shape I had more shoots...

Another "excellent" bug is late goals... Whatever system use -contain,defence,cuner,standart,control or attacking- conede late goals,

so what is the meaning of tactics...

The impression is that it was result is pro-arranged and much has to do only with morale of players, tactic inside the game has no real role..

Anoyther bug is order to players. I ask from my player to play man to man an opposition, he does everything except this...

I win and I ask from my players to stay back in set pieces? Fine they are all in attack and we concede a goal counter... Unbelievable...

I said to myself 'don't be nervous it is just a game'.. I am afraid that the problem it is only game, nothing with real football !

For someone playing for 10 years then you've made 1.8 posts a year which isn't much

Individual morale is not just linked to the individual but the team. If the team isn't winning the players morale will change. Its multi faceted not single

If you want a full answer then you need to explain more things. You've made a very sweeping statement with little evidence or information. Is it just because you are finding the game harder perhaps and no longer easy?

Those relating to the gameplay, and here the first time in ten years that I cant 'see' new season ... I pick Arsenal, Milan, Newcastle, Fenerbahce and Malaga and hopefully fired from all except Fener ... I take great teams play atacking result same ... I get small teams play DEFENCE same result ... I put great team to play DEFENCE the same ...

Usually precede and post somewhere on delays ACCEPT laminated finish and I take the tie or lose ...

Assuming the goal principle and play aggressively after losing definitely ... The logic is when you are back to playing offensive .... But if you do not play offence and play DEFENCE while I'm back I could get a draw ... incredible ... .

Whatever team I have when I ask attacking football I has few shoots , In defence shape I had more shoots...

Another "excellent" bug is late goals... Whatever system use -contain,defence,cuner,standart,control or attacking- conede late goals,

so what is the meaning of tactics...

The impression is that it was result is pro-arranged and much has to do only with morale of players, tactic inside the game has no real role..

I'm sorry if I tell you this, but all you wrote that I quoted above is wrong according to my experience and I bet according to the experience of many of us.

You can be critical on the game under many aspects of it, but to me it just seems you approached the game in the wrong way and possibly took many wrong decisions and poor readings of the match. The game is far from being 100% polished and surely has bugs or issues or just engine mechanics which are more complex to explain and work out than we all can ever imagine.

From what I understood it seems to me you've given as granted that A+B must be surely be C. If this was true, forget about Leicester or Iceland .

The fact is that I don't read any analysis of the opponents or matches you were supposed to play and possibly win, nor I'm sure you understood how to play your own team. I'm sorry I don't want to sound harsh and unrespectful but with the latest 2 years FM turned into something a bit less mechanic and a bit more dynamic, so that you can start with your strategy and tactic but have to be ready to adapt your team game after game if necessary.

There are no more winning tactics and strategies, you have to put more brain than ever. That said, sure there are bugs, but technically they have nothing to do with what you reported above.

I hope it doesn't hurt you if I suggest you to have a look at the tactic thread. People think that thread is for those who can't play the game, nothing is worse than this. It's an endless source of informations everybody drink from. From the noob to the more experienced as you seem to be.

I wish there was a forum we could put bugs in. Like, some kind of "Bugs Forum". That'd be teckle.

To be honest, I can't really understand a lot of what you posted. What I do understand is, like Federico said, a lot of it isn't bugs, it's the way you're approaching games. Conceding late goals isn't a bug - if it was, everyone would be experiencing it. You also seem to be complaining that playing defensively can sometimes see you score more goals than playing offensively. Well...yeah. Is it really that hard to see a situation where that wouldn't happen? You play attacking, you're pushing forward, too many cooks in the area make it difficult to score. You also leave yourself open to counter-attacks. Play defensively and you can do the exact opposite.

If you really think things are bugs, they need to be raised in the right forum with supporting evidence, then SI will decide whether they need to be fixed. Threads like this solve absolutely nothing.

And 8 months into a yearly release, any "bugs" now discovered aren't going to be fixed in FM 16. So...you MIGHT want to consider your tactics.

I would say this is the most balanced in a while, as far as how your team performs, nothing feels OP, one year its team talks, the next morale, the next its tactics, and players dont matter. Some Fms it seems all you needed to do was google team talks, there was one fm because of tactics I couldnt tell the difference between my u18s and my first team, no matter who I slotted into the tactic they performed equally. Ive never felt cheated in this one, none of the no surprise last min goals, or sneaking one in when you press the tactics button, Ive had some shocking results, but I dont feel like it was always going to happen. Theres none of the funny coincidences I used to experience at an over coincidental rate.

I think some hidden confidence atribute is what has a major say in the outcome, a belief stat, but you need a tactic that isnt flawed to start with, players do matter but its not all that matters, and team talks this year I dont think have any effect barely, neither does morale. Losing streaks and winning streaks seem to be a big factor, momentum.

And yes, theres quite a few additions that because of how they work or dont work break immersion. Promises are a mess, The transfer market is not convincing at all. Defending looks a mess but I dont know if thats poor animation, its a lot goal happy than past FMs, a lot more favouring attack rather than defence.

There may be some fishy defending, but you posted you were playing a "semi-suicidal 4-1-5", so. ;-) There has NEVER been a version where talks were game changers, nor a version where an u18 was able to outplay your first team, unless you let them, like having no midfield, which, well, I'll let you do the Maths in 4 1 5. Also you can have the best morale in the world, if you midfield is a walk through, it will happen each and every time you drop the ball. Which each match, naturally happens quite a lot of times. You also posted you see virtually no difference in play even when going opposite instructions, which means stuff will appear random in any version you're going to play. Morale doesn't affect basic positioning, nor formations, nor shapes much... that's all tactics for instance. It slightly influences decision making and some mental stats (main coder), which is pretty much all it does. Which means that players may make an added mistake or bad decision here and there, but that's about it.

Myself in one save I currently have 1,5 goals for a match but less than 0,5 against on a win ratio of 80% or thereabouts sitting atop the tables, so playing conservatively is doable. I also only concede 6 shots on average a match (calculated manually, would be great to have this in the game as stat) as when taking leads, I attempt to sit on them and start recycling, just a couple TIs and adjusting duty, no more, which is also visibly happening, clearly. You would learn a lot taking stuff onboard that's posted, including that the match play you see is genuine, including all the positioning of the players you encourage. I don't see what's so hard to read about it, it's not as if it would be little animated guinea pigs from space randomly chasing what looks like a little bits of cheddar cheese or anything. This is fairly linked to the OP, as for some reason, he seems to be struggling here also. If he wants help, I'm sure it's there.

I dont think the formation has anything to do with it, well it does, but thats not what I'm seeing in the visual, they are in the right positions, its not suicidal defending I'm seeing, being caught with a high line, its more deep defending just looking like they havent got a clue or looking like they arent trying. But thats just probably just how its done to show a goal going in.

I have about 2 goals for 2 goals against average last season, I like a goal fest. I have had the same save since the start, well after about 2 failed saves at being sacked before christmas, so Ive learnt as I went, it took 5 seasons to get get the basics of my formation and get out of the non leagues. Over the entire save its about a 1.8 for, 1.5 against. But bearing in mind I'm a team that every season is exepcted to be relegated, and my players arent the best, I had vanarama players playing in the prem my first season, I dont really change the squad unless someones contract runs out, I think if I was a bg fish instead of a small one every season I think my goal average would be a lot better.

And I dont care what you say, and typing in capitals wont change that, one fm, team talks made a massive differnce, I saw it with my own eyes, and this was a long term save suddenly transformed by learning team talks, with no other changes. I cant remember what year but less than 5 ago. This year is more balanced.

But thats just probably just how its done to show a goal going in.

This is the exact opposite of what happens. It doesn't arbitrarily show how a goal is going in. Apologies if this came a bit condescending, but there is many myths being spread around. You are told by mods that's not how things work, who know their stuff much better. Nobody is trying to do any bad, but help. This is not a contest of who's wrong and right or anything. Just out of interest, how does that formation look like, i.e. which positions do you field? That's a flat back four I reckon, with a sole CM in the CM slot and then? And up front? Three central forwards plus an attacking midfielder L and R? Something else? The formation you field is your defending shape, i.e. the old without ball thing kinda with more advanced players being a little more reluctant to get behind the ball, and central forwards not getting behind the ball at all staying further up the pitch. As you can guess thus, you would be the only manager in the entire game world who would employ such crazy formations, as that's how no team lines up when defending, which can cause all kinds of weird things happening, in particular as AI managers likely aren't given means to react to that marauding front five. That's not arbitrary nor a representation, that is second by second of play what's going on. In other words, goals are scored because they were able to do it.

Such stats are tactical. Defenders would look clueless as they're outnumbered and overrun when pushed back simply. Your midfield would be a walk-in every time, no matter how good the players attributes are, how motivated they are, how highly their morale is or whatever pep talk you chose. On the other end of the pitch, it's numerous players immediately up for taking things forward again, oft sitting into space. No matter how weak they are, how complacent they are, how lowly their morale or whatever pep talk you chose, they would do such. End to end action follows. With such a goal spread (2 vs 2 on average), which equals to conceding some of the most plus scoring some of the most in the league at the same time, matches are a lottery, and if the unusual pick in formation looks what I think it looks like, your runs will be most affected by firstly random chance, as it's back and forth kind of stuff and you never being control of a match, and how your opponents line up, as depending on which, they will make it less effecitve or more so simply by their choice of formation and roles/duty. Depending on which, all it would need in a coming iteration was a change in how AI tactics work, and suddenly it doesn't work anymore and you're back to a different wrong theory of how it all roughly would link together which can lead to frustration.

Similar to the OPs, you might have also found an actually bug along that line. In particular with your Vanarama players competing in the Prem... that's what got me even more curious. Surely something unnaturally and rather unbalanced? It can be a bit of a Matrix moment, red pill or blue pill, and you can go for the blue one for as many times as you would like, though that won't help improve enjoyment with the game, unfortunately. However you could still post that tactics/formation so this could be shown, taken a look at and verified. :-)

I dont think the formation has anything to do with it, well it does, but thats not what I'm seeing in the visual, they are in the right positions, its not suicidal defending I'm seeing, being caught with a high line, its more deep defending just looking like they havent got a clue or looking like they arent trying. But thats just probably just how its done to show a goal going in.

I see this a lot, Keystone Cops stuff, clearances bouncing about like pinball in to the path of an attacker etc. The game isn't bugged, and I fully accept that "its ur tactics m8y lol" is generally why I lose some games, but some of the poor animations are frustrating to watch. When a striker trips over an invisible molehill in goalmouth scramble, a defender does a pointless 90 degree Charles 'Charley' Charles style slo-mo dribble before hoiking the ball to an opposition player's feet, a cod-eyed shot goes out for a throw in, a tackle being made before the tackler stands and watches his opponent pick up where he left off, shooting from the byline etc are all so very frustrating. Like the OP I've been playing the game for a long time (since the '93 CM version), and so these annoyances can be tempered by the fact that I've gotten so much enjoyment from the game over the years, but if I'd never played FM before now I can honestly see why some people may watch these animations and feel a bit conned by it.

Svenc states in his post that "you are told by mods how things work" - but people who don't log on to FM websites for such clarification may well deduce that the game is somehow rigged against them in parts if they're basing this assessment on the quality of the animations. If this was my first FM, and I didn't bother trawling the internet for advice, I'd have given up on the game as soon as I realised I couldn't take a player to one side and tell him to square it from the byline instead of shooting.

This is the only FM that is beyond my power of comprehension. I see a lot of people having success with weird combination of tactics that should never work and tactics that do have a commons sense to them are absolutely trash.

I am not ranting , it's just that the game became too complex for it's own good.

This is the only FM that is beyond my power of comprehension. I see a lot of people having success with weird combination of tactics that should never work and tactics that do have a commons sense to them are absolutely trash.

I am not ranting , it's just that the game became too complex for it's own good.

It's really not that complex at all. Have a look at Herne's or Rashidi's post in the tactics section. People over complicate things needlessly sometimes.

I see this a lot, Keystone Cops stuff, clearances bouncing about like pinball in to the path of an attacker etc. The game isn't bugged, and I fully accept that "its ur tactics m8y lol" is generally why I lose some games, but some of the poor animations are frustrating to watch. When a striker trips over an invisible molehill in goalmouth scramble, a defender does a pointless 90 degree Charles 'Charley' Charles style slo-mo dribble before hoiking the ball to an opposition player's feet, a cod-eyed shot goes out for a throw in, a tackle being made before the tackler stands and watches his opponent pick up where he left off, shooting from the byline etc are all so very frustrating. Like the OP I've been playing the game for a long time (since the '93 CM version), and so these annoyances can be tempered by the fact that I've gotten so much enjoyment from the game over the years, but if I'd never played FM before now I can honestly see why some people may watch these animations and feel a bit conned by it.

Svenc states in his post that "you are told by mods how things work" - but people who don't log on to FM websites for such clarification may well deduce that the game is somehow rigged against them in parts if they're basing this assessment on the quality of the animations. If this was my first FM, and I didn't bother trawling the internet for advice, I'd have given up on the game as soon as I realised I couldn't take a player to one side and tell him to square it from the byline instead of shooting.

You are right the animations are to blame for a lot of player frustration, the animations are not developed enough to keep up with the ME and a lot more work needs to be done on them before they are a true reflection of exactly whats happened in the match

Svenc states in his post that "you are told by mods how things work" - but people who don't log on to FM websites for such clarification may well deduce that the game is somehow rigged against them in parts if they're basing this assessment on the quality of the animations. If this was my first FM, and I didn't bother trawling the internet for advice, I'd have given up on the game as soon as I realised I couldn't take a player to one side and tell him to square it from the byline instead of shooting.

Fair play to actually bugs, like when runs aren't tracked, when specific marking leads to giving players head starts and space regularly (was before the patch anyway in a certain combo), when far posts are as open as a barn's door, etc. which in dimo's case, who knows. But the other post has nought to with bugs. The team obviously can't defend for toffee due to the formation employed, which is visible from the match play. No matter what actually the guys upfront look like, a one man midfield eventually is overrun every time, and as it is also the only guy in front of the defenders, who will then be dragged everywhere hopeless to pick up everybody, they won't cope. There is no way you'd get such goal spreads else, except if you were applying specific marking orders on CBs, maybe. That's not conceding to bugs, that's conceding because defenders are visibly dragged all over the place. Even against opposition several tiers below you couldn't control the match as no midfield is no midfield.

SI could lock all of this out, "crazy" or "risky" formations or risky specific marking orders. So that you would be only able to pick any formation that is available from the pull down menus where you can pick formations, rather than edit some of your own. However for short bursts you might want to go "gung-ho" or a fun save where you don't give a damn either way, plus creativity is fun. So a better way may be was to state clearly: your basic formation as outlined in tactics screen = basically your teams position when defending (old without ball sort of), and tell what specific marking does, which is chase their guy all over the pitch. Because I do find it worrying too that you can play this for years and be confused, and that's documentation too. However there is always players who refuse to accept advice, even if it were in-game or if it came from the devs and rather keep on insisting on bad theory which when spread leads to frustration, which nobody then could do anything about.

Hope this is uploaded (curious too ), as this is apparentlyleading to weird things. Such formations aren't tested likely, and if Van level players compete in the EPL, this can have knock-ons... Transfers, more. That'd be poor players seen for what they are, which is guys who wouldn't perform at any other team, only doing well because of the formations and instructions. On top of the results this seems to break the game, likely due to a combination of AI tactical decisions and ME bugs. Like how you could game the AMLs/AMRs in older versions, making them not track back, which against any AI man going attack and getting his full backs forward (attack duty, previously runs from deep always), would be exploited as they would sit atop unmarked -- against defensive AI (weak teams, sides considers huge underdogs), who would keep his guys back, not so much. That's where random runs would come from for anybody who would spread that everything was arbitrary set play leading to a goal the engine "had calculated must go in". Goals are scored because players/dots did it, not some other way around.

Going from that, you don't need to go into such micro-details at all, as with any "normal" formation this would be a non-issue. But here's WOT I think may be roughly going on, with Pogba being the only central midfielder here, hapless to pick up everybody. The circle is his area, and he is incapable to mark all... as he doesn't this will have everybody else getting dragged all over the pitch same. The wide attacking players (AML AMR 16 + 37) may tuck in to help some, but that also leaves space out wide for a possible attacking run by the wide back (2). If it's 3 central forwards employed they don't get behind the ball (9 17 21) making things worse.

However when things are still intercepted, this can launch something on the break right there as they all stayed upfront. End to end action by definition. However depending on how defensive the AI man plays, a switch can also happen mid-match as they react to scorelines, he will have additionally cover for that or he won't. F'r instance, the left back (31) all upfield may stay back. That's not a representation, or arbitary, or "just animations", that's quite literally what would be going on all matches all season.

I don't want to brake your spirit. But yes the game does have a lot of bugs but what can i say that I am managing Dynamo Dresden in German Third Division and I am top of the table by 10 points half way through the season. I din't make any big purchases only brought in a lot of additional coaches. I made sure coach attributes reflect down to players properly. Half way through the season i also ended up playing 2 friendly games against 1st division german teams which in both I games i was leading and won 1 and lost 1.

The most importan thing i have done this past week is dig deeper with core attributes and player training not forgetting moral. I wanted to test this in the german 3rd division and i must say it's paying big time. I too was like you complaining about a lot of areas of the game but changed my approach.

By the way i've only been using 1 tactic all season and not 3 and yes it's a simple 442 tactic. I'm now starting to believe you can use 1 tactic all season as long as you know how to tweak player roles during a match against different tactics against yours. But let's not forget this is 3rd division.

You are right the animations are to blame for a lot of player frustration, the animations are not developed enough to keep up with the ME and a lot more work needs to be done on them before they are a true reflection of exactly whats happened in the match

I agree with on this.

However, that statement has been said by many people on this forums, since the inclusion of the 3D in FM09, which was released in 2008. That is nearly 8 years ago (wow, has been that long?).

What I'm saying is simply, it simple a statement that has been extremely warned out. Yes, the 3D and animations are complicated to do, but it is starting to sound like as an excuse. Would i do better job at it? No, I wouldn't, but I have the right to an opinion to say I don't like the looks and animations of 3D, even today. Maybe I'm just old schooled and like the dots and the commentaries, better then 3D.

In the end, i feel SI choose the wrong graphics engine for this and after 8 years the animations and the 3D are not on par with the match engine, it is time to ditch the graphics engine to something that can be up to date with match engine, if it exists.

I agree with on this.

However, that statement has been said by many people on this forums, since the inclusion of the 3D in FM09, which was released in 2008. That is nearly 8 years ago (wow, has been that long?).

What I'm saying is simply, it simple a statement that has been extremely warned out. Yes, the 3D and animations are complicated to do, but it is starting to sound like as an excuse. Would i do better job at it? No, I wouldn't, but I have the right to an opinion to say I don't like the looks and animations of 3D, even today. Maybe I'm just old schooled and like the dots and the commentaries, better then 3D.

In the end, i feel SI choose the wrong graphics engine for this and after 8 years the animations and the 3D are not on par with the match engine, it is time to ditch the graphics engine to something that can be up to date with match engine, if it exists.

Everyone just buys a generic engine these days. SI have always prided themselves on doing everything themselves and that includes the 3D and making it compatible with the ME. With motion captured animations now being added, it's a lot better these days though.

Yes i agree.

I think that motion capture should have come when the 3D was first introduce, but what is done is done. My beef with the 3D is looks of it, i think it is ugly. At this point dots all the way.

Yes i agree.

I think that motion capture should have come when the 3D was first introduce, but what is done is done. My beef with the 3D is looks of it, i think it is ugly. At this point dots all the way.

It's for people like you that the 2D has remained

Well, that and for people who's PCs don't have the technical capability.

Still the same ME; just a different view of what's happening.

It's a tough one about improving animations, as obviously if SI went over the top with this it could limit its use to only those with top end graphics cards etc. What could be beneficial is added comnentary to clarify what I'm seeing. For example, if my striker falls over an invisible molehill with a tap in to an open goal at his mercy, is this poir animation, or is it the player bottled it? Similar text in the commentary could be placed to reference all the animation frustrations listed in my above post in this thread, and would go a long way to ease player frustration.

We're always looking to improve the animations as much as we can, but people have to understand we're a relatively small team with finite resources. We make strides forward every year and continue to do so with each incarnation of FM.

Whilst I agree the animations are improved each version.

I'm sure I remember Miles saying a couple of years ago that the target was that within 5 years you would't be able to tell the difference between the game and a televised real match. In my opinion thats a lot of improvement in the next 3 years.

Fair play to actually bugs, like when runs aren't tracked, when specific marking leads to giving players head starts and space regularly (was before the patch anyway in a certain combo), when far posts are as open as a barn's door, etc. which in dimo's case, who knows. But the other post has nought to with bugs. The team obviously can't defend for toffee due to the formation employed, which is visible from the match play. No matter what actually the guys upfront look like, a one man midfield eventually is overrun every time, and as it is also the only guy in front of the defenders, who will then be dragged everywhere hopeless to pick up everybody, they won't cope. There is no way you'd get such goal spreads else, except if you were applying specific marking orders on CBs, maybe. That's not conceding to bugs, that's conceding because defenders are visibly dragged all over the place. Even against opposition several tiers below you couldn't control the match as no midfield is no midfield.

Like I said, its not about formation what I was talking about, it doesnt matter what the formation is, I was talking about it not looking right, whatever the formation, like what you said in your first two lines, and like I said the first time, it looking like players not trying, or doing the wrong thing, the same thing youve noticed yourself.

My original tactic couldnt break a 60% pass completion, a tweaked support settings and things and now it has a bout a 78%, on the visual though all it showed was players not being able to make simple passes, trying to pass to the guy on the wing a few feet away and kicking it out of play, the visual showed nothing wrong other than they seemed for no apparent reason to be able to make simple passes, because it looked like nothing was wrong, so I put it down to the players or lack of gelling, but there was a problem, my players werent linking up properly stat wise (non visualy) obviously, so when I changed support settings now instead of not being able to string two passes together they do.

Same with defending, it looked crazy, it looked like they were running around like headless chickens, or not trying, getting dragged out of position easily, they still look like idiots when a goal is going in but not as many goals go in because Ive improved the defence and tweaked the closing down. Getting caught too deep inviting presure so playing an extreme high line to counter it, but they still get caught playing to deep and running back to ensure they can have a run at goal, I'm expecting to be getting caught by the offside, but I dont, well I probably do stat wise but not animation wise.

I think the animations look good, I like watching it, most of the time it looks like a great game of football, it just seems like what I'm seeing is some kind of limitation to something, its making it happen in a strange way to reflect what is happening statisitcally.

I think animations or no animations this years FM seems to favour goal scoring. I find its easier to score goals on this one. Ofen in my games theres goals straight from the kick off, I have seen quite a few 1-1s in under 5 mins. I had a 1-1 in under 1 min once. Its easier to score 5 than it is to keep a clean sheet. Strikers have the edge over attackers, lots of high scoring strikers floating about not many defenders who dont have mistakes leading to goals coming out of their eye balls. And this is the AIs attack and defence too.

And the transfer market is the worst of any FM to date, I say that with 100% conviction. I dont know if its sacrfices to get it to run better on weaker machines, cos it runs better than older fms, so is that why it feels its going backwards.

My formation isnt that suicidal, its a 4-1-5 but it plays more like a 4-4-2, or a 4-3-3, sometimes its a 2-3-5 the one midfielder is a MC that acts abit like a DMC protecting the back 4 and unleasing the attacking players. My back 4 are all fast to mop up any balls he misses. I'm always told I'm being outnumbered in midfield, but stat wise I'm not, so I ignore it. Just because its not used, doesnt mean it cant be used or wouldnt work irl. New formations are developing all time. There isnt a rule of what formation works and what doesnt. If I was a manager this is what I would do, and thats what the game is. I havent been sacked yet so I'm happy.

Like I said, its not about formation what I was talking about, it doesnt matter what the formation is, I was talking about it not looking right, whatever the formation, like what you said in your first two lines, and like I said the first time, it looking like players not trying, or doing the wrong thing, the same thing youve noticed yourself.

My original tactic couldnt break a 60% pass completion, a tweaked support settings and things and now it has a bout a 78%, on the visual though all it showed was players not being able to make simple passes, trying to pass to the guy on the wing a few feet away and kicking it out of play, the visual showed nothing wrong other than they seemed for no apparent reason to be able to make simple passes, because it looked like nothing was wrong, so I put it down to the players or lack of gelling, but there was a problem, my players werent linking up properly stat wise (non visualy) obviously, so when I changed support settings now instead of not being able to string two passes together they do.

Same with defending, it looked crazy, it looked like they were running around like headless chickens, or not trying, getting dragged out of position easily, they still look like idiots when a goal is going in but not as many goals go in because Ive improved the defence and tweaked the closing down. Getting caught too deep inviting presure so playing an extreme high line to counter it, but they still get caught playing to deep and running back to ensure they can have a run at goal, I'm expecting to be getting caught by the offside, but I dont, well I probably do stat wise but not animation wise.

I think the animations look good, I like watching it, most of the time it looks like a great game of football, it just seems like what I'm seeing is some kind of limitation to something its making it happen in a strange way to reflect what is happening statisitcally.

I think animations or no animations this years FM seems to favour goal scoring. I find its easier to score goals on this one. Ofen in my games theres goals straight from the kick off, I have seen quite a few 1-1s in under 5 mins. I had a 1-1 in under 1 min once. Its easier to score 5 than it is to keep a clean sheet. Strikers have the edge over attackers, lots of high scoring strikers floating about not many defenders who dont have mistakes leading to goals coming out of their eye balls.

And the transfer market is the worst of any FM to date, I say that with 100% conviction. I dont know if its sacrfices to get it to run better on weaker machines, cos it runs better than older fms, so is that why it feels its going backwards.

My formation isnt that suicidal, its a 4-1-5 but it plays more like a 4-4-2, or a 4-3-3, sometimes its a 2-3-5 the one midfielder is a MC that acts abit like a DMC protecting the back 4 and unleasing the attacking players. My back 4 are all fast to mop up any balls he misses. Just because its not used, doesnt mean it cant be used or wouldnt work irl. New formations are developing all time. There isnt a rule of what formation works and what doesnt. If I was a manager this is what I would do, and thats what the game is. I havent been sacked yet so I'm happy.

1 - I don't know if there's a scoring bias, but even with a top half club, I can concede less than 1 a game.

2 - Load more leagues. The transfer system really isn't as bad as you say. The team selection and rotation can be better, but the transfers aren't as bad as you make out.

I have all the top leagues loaded. 99.9% of AI bids is the same, half the value plus additions I may or may not get to take it up to the value of the player, for a player that isnt for sale. now thats a backwards step from 10 year ago, And they quote me 10 times there value, for everyone, they make no effort to buy, and no effort to sell. They dont know how to buy and dont know whats a good price to sell. I tried to buy a player for 20mil from barce, they said no. Cos he wasnt for sale. A week later he was for sale, because then he was for sale, so they let him go for 2.5mil. If they dont want to sell, which often they dont they quote crazy, to suddenly decide they do want to sell, and give them away. And he wasnt unsettled, I just went in a week before the AI decided 2.5 million was a good deal.

16 years with players too good for me climbing up the leagues and all I get from the AI in all that time is a few laughable bids for the worst ones, ignoring the true gems trying to take these players away are bids I would rather see him go on a free than accept.

I have all the top leagues loaded. 99.9% of AI bids is the same, half the value plus additions I may or may not get to take it up to the value of the player, for a player that isnt for sale. now thats a backwards step from 10 year ago, And they quote me 10 times there value, for everyone, they make no effort to buy, and no effort to sell. They dont know how to buy and dont know whats a good price to sell. I tried to buy a player for 20mil from barce, they said no. Cos he wasnt for sale. A week later he was for sale, because then he was for sale, so they let him go for 2.5mil. If they dont want to sell, which often they dont they quote crazy, to suddenly decide they do want to sell, and give them away. And he wasnt unsettled, I just went in a week before the AI decided 2.5 million was a good deal.

When you reject, do you give a reason?

I normally get offered around value for a high value player, but if you negotiate or set an asking price, they're very willing to offer more. Why should they come with their best offer first?

In the Barca case, sounds like you unsettled the player, he kicked up a fuss and demanded to move. YOU caused it to happen.

When you reject, do you give a reason?

I normally get offered around value for a high value player, but if you negotiate or set an asking price, they're very willing to offer more. Why should they come with their best offer first?

In the Barca case, sounds like you unsettled the player, he kicked up a fuss and demanded to move. YOU caused it to happen.

Sometimes, but I behave the same way as the AI and just reject it most of the time. I'm not trying to encourage them, I'm trying to fend them off, they make it easy, I had the top scorer in the prem last season, hes only on 40k a week, 22 year old, english, no interest, Hes worth 22 mil, Man city make an 11 mil bid, plus add ons they must think is like diamonds, the exact same bid every other AI makes, 50% and stupid add ons, I rejected, the player wasnt happy, wants to leave, I said if they come back with another offer I'll let you go, I was worried cos last time I said that they offered a 100k more like its millions, but they never did come back so mows hes happy again. I dont want to sell, and too sell would have to take a bid that it takes to get the AI to sell their back up players they dont want to sell, alot more than hes worth, not less. Like the AI think.

I set asking prices, its still 50%, I wouldnt even sell the players I want rid off for the bids the AI make, sometimes they come in with an extra 100k like it makes a difference, then somehow they cant afford to pay full price for a player, but can happily reject bids 10 times as much like its stamps.

Honestly, I can understand its not easy, and getting it right is hard, but making it worse, I just dont find very easy to understand, especially when they add so much fluff to the game that also doesnt work that well either each year. Alot of it now fells robotic, predicable and set to a number, like promises having bars to count down a number, that they will all share, or complaints all kicking in at the same day, then going away on the same day, again to maybe cut down on proccessing and performance. That same guy, because of 2 broken promises I ddnt intend to break but did, went terrible, I gave him a new contract to cheer him up, he signed it, its still counting down to a promise to move to another club.

I think it must be hard for SI, they have to keep adding new features, or are accused of just a roster update, I struggle to think of anything left to add that isnt already in or novelty, alot of what they added is detracting from the overall experience, because of how it works or how monotous and tedius it gets, and they cant take it away cos thats even worse than a roster update,. It may be ok for 6 months, but having all this fluff on loop every few weeks for every season it quickly gets on your nerves, now press conferences I just rapid fire the middle option, sometimes if the question is big or smaller I end up clicking 4th or 2nd, but I passed having the patience to put up with these and theres no other word for it but tacked nonsense, that barely makes sense, getting asked every week if I think 40 points will be enough to stay up, yes. like I said last week, then asked the question after if I think I can hold on to the top spot, forced manager fights, some questions I cant even find an option for, there isnt one, pick one of the best left. I give up, so quickly tap through it.

I'm finding this version the least convincing because of two many things like transfers and things that dont seem like they are very clever.

Theres a guy made a good vid about what would happen if the premier league had no players, yes its not normal, but trying the unordinary is a good way to test imo. I think SI should try things like that, what if, In some ways it worked well, clubs build up a squad where in other years they would stockpile players for the same positions, but some clubs didnt buy at all, some clubs bought players there is no explanation for and great players sat there without clubs for ever cos nobody wanted them, it seems like from that its only working a bit.

Another was giving superstars to Blackpool and seeing what would happen, some players got signed by bigger clubs, alot of stars playing for peannuts didnt even generate interest.

I see behaviour like this in my save playing properly, its just not very convincing.

In some areas its probably improved, but in an inconsistant way, but in a lot of ways its much worse.

I agree with a lot of points being made. I've given up trying to make them though... Sadly, every time you try to make one, a mod just says it's you, not the game. The game has no flaws, and tries to make you feel like you just don't know what you're doing... Regardless of how long you've been playing.

As you can see, I'm losing interest. I think in FM 16 half of my 24 hours were when I fell asleep at the keyboard and my wife drug me to bed.

I'm not a - keep it open 24/7 - player. My hours are true played hours. I could show you the hours from 09 and up, but you get the idea. I really doubt I will get FM this year, and it will be the first time since I started FM/CM back in 98. Maybe I just need a break. But maybe this is the beginning of the end. My friend who got me hooked on it back in 98 hasn't played in 3 years... He's completely given up on the "lack of true progression." In his words.

By the way, he doesn't post here. You don't need to go to the forums to be a true FMer. He's put in just as many hours as anyone else. Lot's of people play this game like a kid in a candy store and do not post here... Some people see the way people are treated here when they make one of their first posts and say to themselves "Why even bother?"

And that said, I'm asking myself... Why even bother with FM17....

I agree with a lot of points being made. I've given up trying to make them though... Sadly, every time you try to make one, a mod just says it's you, not the game. The game has no flaws, and tries to make you feel like you just don't know what you're doing... Regardless of how long you've been playing.

As you can see, I'm losing interest. I think in FM 16 half of my 24 hours were when I fell asleep at the keyboard and my wife drug me to bed.

I'm not a - keep it open 24/7 - player. My hours are true played hours. I could show you the hours from 09 and up, but you get the idea. I really doubt I will get FM this year, and it will be the first time since I started FM/CM back in 98. Maybe I just need a break. But maybe this is the beginning of the end. My friend who got me hooked on it back in 98 hasn't played in 3 years... He's completely given up on the "lack of true progression." In his words.

By the way, he doesn't post here. You don't need to go to the forums to be a true FMer. He's put in just as many hours as anyone else. Lot's of people play this game like a kid in a candy store and do not post here... Some people see the way people are treated here when they make one of their first posts and say to themselves "Why even bother?"

And that said, I'm asking myself... Why even bother with FM17....

No one has ever said the game has no flaws.

My formation isnt that suicidal, its a 4-1-5 but it plays more like a 4-4-2, or a 4-3-3, sometimes its a 2-3-5 the one midfielder is a MC that acts abit like a DMC protecting the back 4 and unleasing the attacking players. My back 4 are all fast to mop up any balls he misses. I'm always told I'm being outnumbered in midfield, but stat wise I'm not, so I ignore it. Just because its not used, doesnt mean it cant be used or wouldnt work irl. New formations are developing all time. There isnt a rule of what formation works and what doesnt. If I was a manager this is what I would do, and thats what the game is. I havent been sacked yet so I'm happy.

Yeah but in the current save it is you who are seeing results like crazy, seeing crazy random runs, regularly bonkers scorelines. Your team can't defend whilst others can some. Focusing on that one why do you think that is? You state you have Vanarama players playing in the EPL too which is a bit odd? Could you please post the formation so it can be looked at, I'm curious myself? :-) You can pick any formation you like, and should be able to. But it won't change that the formation you field is - basically - the old "without ball" formation, the formation they would retreat to when you lose the ball and eventually are pushed back and defending with. Playing high lines and pressing would help somewhat not getting that thoroughly exposed, as players would try to win the ball back far up the pitch, rather than immediately retreat and inviting the opponent in your half each time when the ball is dropped.

If you go crazy here, you will see crazy, as your team won't be able to defend and overload AI teams with lots of attacking players sitting in space. There's other ways of getting weak defenses, having a weak team for a start, or having a bad mix of duty, however nothing of it would lead to 2 goals scored/conceded on average. Still would love to see it though, reminds me of this guy who is doing similar... I'd probably have rage quit long ago. Importantly there's possibly a huge bug/AI weakness in here too... Van players in the EPL?! I'm a bit surprised nobody else has objected to this when speaking about the transfers ... this would totally break the game imo in many ways. It's like the guy who (via constant reloads) made his side win trophies, but never see one of his player getting called up for their national sides, as the international managers would "see the players for what they are", that is lacking in ability. Except that such overachievement against all ability is happening in your save due to your unusual formation not used by any AI manager and generally tactics apparently.

I think the animations look good, I like watching it, most of the time it looks like a great game of football, it just seems like what I'm seeing is some kind of limitation to something, its making it happen in a strange way to reflect what is happening statisitcally.

Nothing is happening "statistically" though. The stats are just adding stuff up that's happening, like player has decided to take a shot: shot count for his team plus 1. If the pass completion rate is lowly, it is because of many passes visibly and actually going astray, which won't be all shown on the highlight modes, as there are 100s of passing attempts made a match. The match engine itself creates that 90 minutes of play in sequence second by second, which can be influenced by both managers. In other words, it's the play making the numbers, not the other way around. That means it's within anybody's influence what would happen, and, what kind of result could transpire. This will seem random though if for some reason one can't read what's going on or struggle with what the tactical options are doing which can be frustrating. Curiously dominating sides such as Real, Barcelona or Bayern this version packed with attacking players sometimes score far less than two goals on average, and still win trophies. It's not uncommon for AI Guardiola to win the Bundesliga with the odd 50 goals from 34 matches, which naturally means overall he can't concede much. Which is their approach/tactics, they have no different options than us, and a bit different to the Lazio guy above.

No one has ever said the game has no flaws.

Can't remember ever seeing someone have an issue and a mod having any agreement or understanding, minus the first few weeks the game is out and it's absolutely littered with bugs and glitches. But I don't really come around that often anymore.

Sometimes, but I behave the same way as the AI and just reject it most of the time. I'm not trying to encourage them, I'm trying to fend them off, they make it easy, I had the top scorer in the prem last season, hes only on 40k a week, 22 year old, english, no interest, Hes worth 22 mil, Man city make an 11 mil bid, plus add ons they must think is like diamonds, the exact same bid every other AI makes, 50% and stupid add ons, I rejected, the player wasnt happy, wants to leave, I said if they come back with another offer I'll let you go, I was worried cos last time I said that they offered a 100k more like its millions, but they never did come back so mows hes happy again. I dont want to sell, and too sell would have to take a bid that it takes to get the AI to sell their back up players they dont want to sell, alot more than hes worth, not less. Like the AI think.

Sometimes?? GIVE them a reason. Say the offer isn't good enough or that he's indispensable, so THEY know what your thinking is.

Also, them putting in that offer worked then? They made an offer that unsettled a player you're not likely to sell otherwise. They probably recognised that he's underpaid too.

Sometimes?? GIVE them a reason. Say the offer isn't good enough or that he's indispensable, so THEY know what your thinking is.

Also, them putting in that offer worked then? They made an offer that unsettled a player you're not likely to sell otherwise. They probably recognised that he's underpaid too.

It doesnt work, cos I never sell them. As a tactic its useless, it just makes it ever so simple to hold onto players i dont want to sell, cos the AI dont know how to buy. They can unsettle them as much as they want but I'm not selling players I dont want to sell to for 50% plus the add on trick. Does this work in real life, I dont see this behaviour. Otherwise clubs would be giving all their players away they dont want to sell left right and centre on the cheap.

Anyway, SI have already said its a problem.

Can't remember ever seeing someone have an issue and a mod having any agreement or understanding, minus the first few weeks the game is out and it's absolutely littered with bugs and glitches. But I don't really come around that often anymore.

Basically what it boils down to is being told to learn to play. Game works fine it must be you, Everything is User error.

Can't remember ever seeing someone have an issue and a mod having any agreement or understanding, minus the first few weeks the game is out and it's absolutely littered with bugs and glitches. But I don't really come around that often anymore.

Basically what it boils down to is being told to learn to play. Game works fine it must be you, Everything is User error.

Of course we need to learn to play the game, each release will have different behaviours & features that we need to adapt to & unless you're a real life manager your natural approach to the game will be based on an imperfect understanding of the real life sport that FM is attempting to simulate, in your case it is primarily the transfer system & on that I have offered to help you but you haven't taken me up on that.

You should see the number of issues that I've raised, it's a very long list. I am also not averse to agreeing with other users when they spot issues with the game.

Of course we need to learn to play the game, each release will have different behaviours & features that we need to adapt to & unless you're a real life manager your natural approach to the game will be based on an imperfect understanding of the real life sport that FM is attempting to simulate, in your case it is primarily the transfer system & on that I have offered to help you but you haven't taken me up on that.

I dont doubt that, but if someone has critisism of the game, within seconds the thread is filled with mods telling us how wrong we so are. My new favourite disguised insult is go play the baby version, or fm touch the offical title

I dont have a problem with it, I think it holds the game back when every bodys complaint is ripped to shreds and only offical acknowkledged issues are ok. And there is many ways to play this game, just cos it works for one doesnt mean it works for all, would you not prefer it worked for everyone.

FMT is often mentioned when it appears people are not keen on Sim mode features that are not part of FMT or are the type of player who would benefit from a tactical system that does not require new formations & tactics to be trained ahead of time, it's certainly not meant as an insult because it's an alternative option for those who do not like option A & it shouldn't be viewed as the baby version but IMHO that is largely due to the lack of PR & marketing dedicated to FMT which is a concern that I have mentioned to folk at SI.

Can't remember ever seeing someone have an issue and a mod having any agreement or understanding, minus the first few weeks the game is out and it's absolutely littered with bugs and glitches. But I don't really come around that often anymore.

The problem with what you said is that the majority of people who complains, simply makes mistakes on the approach of the game, like creating tactics not balanced or just not accepting sometimes things may be bad. And because of their little understanding they point out it's the game that is broken.

The OP is a perfect example of this happening.

Can't remember ever seeing someone have an issue and a mod having any agreement or understanding, minus the first few weeks the game is out and it's absolutely littered with bugs and glitches. But I don't really come around that often anymore.

It all comes down to how you go about it. I've posted a few issues in the bugs forums with plenty of information, examples and uploaded saves/pkms. The response from the devs was always polite, informative and appreciative.

If you simply come in to GD and say "game is bugz lol", what kind of response do you expect?

Some people love to criticise mods. We agree if there's an issue. We post many ourselves. We don't bitch and whine about crap in GD. We'd rather provide constructive posts/threads in the areas where SI will look at them and we upload saves/pkms as examples so that it can be fixed. We're often very critical of certain issues, but always in a constructive way and where we can, with those examples.

Can't remember ever seeing someone have an issue and a mod having any agreement or understanding, minus the first few weeks the game is out and it's absolutely littered with bugs and glitches. But I don't really come around that often anymore.

Then with respect you don't pay enough attention to what we say.

You should visit the bugs forum more often. Quite often issues raised in GD are issues which have a large number of variables, such as tactics and team performance. Some aspects may be a bug, sometimes it's a misunderstanding of how the user has set up their own team. The game isn't perfect and I think the way the game feeds back to the user in terms of things not working tactically aren't as clear as they could be. That's something that is on a long list of things that needs time and consideration.

Your friends talked about 'lack of true progression' - what did he expect in the game which isn't there? Like yourself, what specifically do you feel hasn't improved? What do you feel should be improved?

It's very common for people with less time and more responsibility to have less time for the game. In my free time I've had so much less time to play FM than I did say when I was at university or school and because of that I've had less 'memorable' games. Is that because the game isn't as good, or because I've had less time? In my opinion the game is better than it's ever been in terms of details and enjoyment you can get out of it. That has come at a cost, and that cost is the complexity. That's why you often see ourselves and Mods recommend to some users with less time or who are relatively new to the game to try FMT.

I had brain surgery and now have a poor memory, obviously have not played much in a while... Therefor you hopefully understand I do not recall my recent issues 100%. What comes to mind are things like during a match, my assman will tell me to do things which are just silly... Like we should cross the ball more because we are winning headers 20 minutes into the match... but I have nothing but smaller players up front and the players who have won the headers and my men in back... A few times... Would love for him to give me a real tip on some important issues, especially if I have a top rate one. It seems like everything he says I should just ignore.

It also seems like it is nearly impossible to get squad depth. Everyone ends up wanting first team football or wanting out. Doesn't matter the age. 18-19 years old, "Play me first team or I want out." Doesn't matter if he's not good enough yet, or that you have a good player in his spot, that he's actually learning from... Seems like all my kids always wanted out if I didn't play them all the time. Not loaned out, just gone.

I'd go back into the game and try to remember other problems I was having, but I really just don't feel up for it... Sorry.

Some people love to criticise mods. We agree if there's an issue. We post many ourselves. We don't bitch and whine about crap in GD. We'd rather provide constructive posts/threads in the areas where SI will look at them and we upload saves/pkms as examples so that it can be fixed. We're often very critical of certain issues, but always in a constructive way and where we can, with those examples.

Well said, when people start thinking that advice on playing a different mode is a veiled insult, you have to wonder if they are coming in with pre-conceived notions of what we do, or simply looking to have a pop because of our roles. If only they knew how much time we spent raising issues (the answer is far more than most of the users here)

If only they knew how much time we spent raising issues (the answer is far more than most of the users here)

I'd hate to think how many hours I've spent posting about issues or ideas on possible improvements, it's also a good job that I'm not on a capped data package with my ISP otherwise I'd have spent a fortune with all the save files I've uploaded over the years.

I must admit the game is more buggy now than it ever was, its no surprise, theres much more features, they are making two versions now, with what they admit is a small team, I think its taking its toll. It doesnt seem to get the same love and care it used to get. I started having to wait till patch 3 for the game, now when I see patch 3 I hate to see what it was like at launch.

Si think this is the best FM ever, I dont doubt they believe that but their vision is clouded, I would act the same if people insulted my baby, I'd be worse, I would be round with a baseball bat, so its no wonder they cant handle critsiisim.

But I really believe SI need a team meeting. Cos I think complacency or something is making them lose what they had. Quality control.

I looked at metacritic and every year the rating is going down. Imo its seems to reflect the state of the game

I'll only say it once, but I suggest people trying to make judgements about SI's objectivity and complacency isnonsense because one will have no idea of their personal states, ignoring the fact it's both insulting and against the house rules to do so. So I suggest strongly that people refrain from doing so. As for number of bugs, that's objectively lower that previously. This idea that they also can't handle constructive criticism is rubbish because that's the entire reason for the feedback thread existing. It's quite literally what they ask for

SI can handle criticism, if they couldn't then they wouldn't have approached me to work for them after I tore FM12 apart with over 500 bug reports within a couple of months & they wouldn't have asked me to stay on as a beta-tester once I decided to restart my previous career, they certainly would have shut me out after some of the very critical feedback I have provided yet they are more than happy to take on board what I post because I do so in a constructive manner which unfortunately is something that is often lacking on the internet..

SI can handle criticism, if they couldn't then they wouldn't have approach me to work for them after I tore FM12 apart with over 500 bug reports within a couple of months & they wouldn't have asked me to stay on as a beta-tester once I decided to restart my previous career & they certainly would have shut me out after some of the very critical feedback I have provided.

If they couldn't handle criticism, most of us wouldn't be mods. It's nonsense.

I'm ever so slightly tempted to copy every bug post I've made into this thread, the fact that I'd still be copying them this time next week makes that idea impractical.

There is something in the rules that says no destructive critisism, but what does that mean exactly, nothing that hurts the sales or something? and being told your critisism is wrong because SI or a mod said so doesnt seem all that fair. Just because they said it doesnt make it fact. I'm pretty sure nothing that is wrong with the game is done so on purpose. It is possible they could be wrong, bugs arent intentional. Its code, changing one thing can have an adverse unintentional effect on an other tottally unrelated bit of code.

To be honest its unfair to accuse SI of not handling handle critisism. Its mostly the mods that jump down the throats of anyone without a positive. And you cant critisise mod behaiour cos thats also against the rules so they got every hole covered.

But I have made a lot of constructive posts and it seems if its negative its a few seconds before mods arrive, and they will pick holes in sentances and look for something. I made a page long post, it would take 3 mins to read was deleted in 30 secs cos a mod read the first line which he deemed destructive. When it was more a question.