What's going on here?

So my scouts have continually rated this midfielder as having 4 star world class potential so of course I'm looking to buy him, but he has a £50m release clause and Torino initially refused to budge from it but I've got them down to around £38m as a start point after going to the press. The question, though, is why are they being so stubborn about it? I've bid up to £15m so far and they're just not interested.

He's hardly playing for them other than sub appearances, their tactic is a flat 433 and he can't get into any of the 3 central midfield positions. He's already 23 years old and even when he does play his average rating is pretty bad for them. There's no animosity between me and the Torino manager and they've only sold a couple of players for the amount I'm bidding in the past 8 seasons.

Here he is (I need to get him ASAP if I want that determination to go up):

Here's his career history with them, less than 20 starts in the last 5 years.

Why are they playing hardball with a player who is outright terrible for them, barely features and now has an abysmal rating for morale? They're in the relegation zone and that kind of money could help get them out of it. I can't see any reason why they're asking for crazy money, it doesn't seem to make any sense.

They know his potential too.

Personally I think they're doing you a favour. At 23 I'd say he's not going to become world class, but maybe I'm too quick to give up on players.

He is a rotation player for them with lots of potential so of course they don't want to let him go.

He also has 2.5 years left on his contract so unless he forces a move they have no reason to sell him.

Put yourself in their position if you were Torino would you sell him?

TBH looking at that match history they are probably doing you a favour as he could well have low consistency but it may be down to his numerous sub appearances.

Figured the potential is coming in to it, but is that an underlying problem with the AI? If they know he's got 4 star potential (he's currently on 1.5), then why aren't they giving him the game time he needs to reach those heights? One one hand he's super important to them, but on the other they're not doing anything to justify that importance. Doesn't make sense. My scouts rate his current ability as decent Premier League player, and I've had a look at the 3 central midfielders keeping him out of the team and they're all around the same level.

Unless they know he's unlikely to reach his potential because of his hidden attributes, in which case, why are they not letting him go? Plus there's the fact that the money I'm offering could really help them get out of the situation they're in. Are they putting the incredibly slow development of one player above their survival in the league?

it would be managers personality, weither he fits players into preffered formation etc i would of thought

he has dictates tempo and runs with ball, but no great mental attributes, i wouldn't buy for that reason myself

Figured the potential is coming in to it, but is that an underlying problem with the AI? If they know he's got 4 star potential (he's currently on 1.5), then why aren't they giving him the game time he needs to reach those heights? One one hand he's super important to them, but on the other they're not doing anything to justify that importance. Doesn't make sense. My scouts rate his current ability as decent Premier League player, and I've had a look at the 3 central midfielders keeping him out of the team and they're all around the same level.

He was involved in 30 games last season, 12 this season, its not like they aren't giving him match time.

He is part of their squad and is being used which he is probably happy with as it stands, especially given he is a Torino youth player.

Unless they know he's unlikely to reach his potential because of his hidden attributes, in which case, why are they not letting him go? Plus there's the fact that the money I'm offering could really help them get out of the situation they're in. Are they putting the incredibly slow development of one player above their survival in the league?

Overall it just feels like you want to game the system a little.

You shouldn't be using players just because they have potential, that doesn't happen in the real world, you play your best team as much as you can, rotate when you can and give fringe players/youngsters a bit of game time.

There is a case that the AI could rotate more but even then I don't think there is anything wrong with them rejecting your offers. You don't have a divine right to sign anyone you want, if you are patient though you might be able to sign that player in the summer depending what happens in the game world.

He is not worth even £5m in my opinion. 23 years old, low determination and bad ratings. Just give up on him, he will never reach his potential.

I bought him anyway. But my point is that I'm buying him because of his potential, and I plan to give him around 25 starts per season to help that potential develop. The AI is keeping a player because of potential but not doing what it needs to for him to reach that potential, that's what doesn't make any sense to me.

do you not think giving him 30 games last season was enough to develope him?

How is the AI not doing anything? He got 30 out of 38 league games for Torino last season, and 11 league games in the current, and it's still mid season. I still think you've gone wrong by signing him, because clearly he have bad hidden attributes.

He only had 7 starts the previous season. I think the rule is that development kicks in if you bring players on before the 75th minute? If they're bringing him on after that for his sub appearances, then he's not going to develop quickly at all. Of the 11 league games this season he only started 1.

To an extent I can see what you mean - he's 23 now, had 30 appearances last year and 13 the year before. I think if most people had a high potential youth they may have given him more game time than that before the age of 21.

However, as in real life, there are plenty of examples of people not fulfilling their potential - sometimes through no fault of the club concerned. What we don't know from the above screen shot is what the player's personality and media handling is like. What do the scout/coach reports say? All we know so far is "fairly ambitious". If the player has low professionalism he's never going to fulfil his potential, no matter how much game time he's given.

Here's the coach report. I've tried a few coaches and none of them expand on the info I have here. Not really much to go on regarding hidden attributes, unless anyone can advise?

i have never bought a player that wouldn't appear in the list of best players for his position, how far down is he?

What's his media handling skills?

Also, unless the report says things such as "consistent performer", "enjoys big matches", "shows a professional attitude" and so on, I'd have some concerns especially given his age. All we're seeing so far is he's ambitious.

Media friendly. One other thing confusing me here too is the fact that his value was around £1m, wages were fairly average but he agreed a £50m release clause in his contract.

i have never bought a player that wouldn't appear in the list of best players for his position, how far down is he?

He's 9th. Good times.

surely he wouldnt even get in your second rotated team?

surely he wouldnt even get in your second rotated team?

For the position I've earmarked for him, there's two players ahead of him. One is world class and is part of my first team, and the other is on huge wages, in my second team and is just gone 30 so I'm planning to offload him and give the spot to Paoletti. Got enough quality throughout the squad to carry him while I build up that CA. Basically, I can afford to conduct this little experiment and see if I can get him to reach his potential with minimal impact to my team as a whole.

He's 9th. Good times.

So how are you going to give him more game time than Torino?

So how are you going to give him more game time than Torino?

As above. I effectively have two teams in my first team squad, he'll be a starter for the second team and will start every other match which will give him around 30 starts a season.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

Media Friendly + Fairly Ambitious + 9 Determination isn't the best combination for someone who is already 23.

His Professionalism won't be very high, so he probably won't train very well.

If things don't go right for you in a match, expect his head to drop instead of manning up.

He'll have questionable consistency.

He has high levels of ambition so his head could be easily turned if another club shows interest in him.

His temperament may be suspect, so I'd watch his reactions to any talks you have with him.

And he may not be able to handle pressure very well.

Just the 4 for Aggression would have put me off signing him if nothing else.

There's a sticky in the Tactics forum containing a Personality guide.

Yeah he's already started crying in one of the team talks so far. Eugh. I will persevere with him and see how he turns out. I'll revisit the thread with an update at some point if I remember.

But... does any of that explain why Torino were so eager to keep him even though they weren't playing him much?

Media friendly. One other thing confusing me here too is the fact that his value was around £1m, wages were fairly average but he agreed a £50m release clause in his contract.

So media friendly & fairly ambitious gie you the following from the personality guide:

Ambition: 15-20

Determination: 1-14 (We know its 9)

Professionalism: 1-14

Controversy: 1-14

Temperament: 7-20

Doesn't really tell us a whole lot, how much did you scout him beforehand? 100%?

You won't get any more info on your coach reports for a few months but for now you know nothing about his consistency, loyalty, pressure or sportsmanship attributes while the ones we do know something about have a large range.

Lyssien's earlier guide suggests if ambition is over 16 then his loyalty is > 9 which could well be right given how long he has stayed at Torino.

I would also be concerned that your squad personality is "Very Determined". I believe Professionalism usually over-rides determination therefore it suggests that the overall level of professionalism in your squad is significantly lower than the overall determination & that it points to you focussing too much on the attributes you can see (determination) and perhaps not enough on those you can't. Further indicators to that are how much you have valued the player in this thread when other FMers would pass on him.

Yeah he's already started crying in one of the team talks so far. Eugh. I will persevere with him and see how he turns out. I'll revisit the thread with an update at some point if I remember.

But... does any of that explain why Torino were so eager to keep him even though they weren't playing him much?

Quite possible that given they negotiated it was less to do with keeping him and more to do with making as much money as possible. They know he is perceived as a potential star, so it makes sense that another club may well overpay without scouting enough to realise the flaws they've seen through him playing there for an extended period of time.

/me hums "what a waste of money"

Maybe this is some kind of role-playing thing - you're managing Liverpool so you're signing very average players that no big club wants for silly transfer fees.

Of course if he suddenly turns into a world-class player you can come back here, post his stats and prove us all wrong

So media friendly & fairly ambitious gie you the following from the personality guide:

Ambition: 15-20

Determination: 1-14 (We know its 9)

Professionalism: 1-14

Controversy: 1-14

Temperament: 7-20

Doesn't really tell us a whole lot, how much did you scout him beforehand? 100%?

You won't get any more info on your coach reports for a few months but for now you know nothing about his consistency, loyalty, pressure or sportsmanship attributes while the ones we do know something about have a large range.

Lyssien's earlier guide suggests if ambition is over 16 then his loyalty is > 9 which could well be right given how long he has stayed at Torino.

I would also be concerned that your squad personality is "Very Determined". I believe Professionalism usually over-rides determination therefore it suggests that the overall level of professionalism in your squad is significantly lower than the overall determination & that it points to you focussing too much on the attributes you can see (determination) and perhaps not enough on those you can't. Further indicators to that are how much you have valued the player in this thread when other FMers would pass on him.

Had 3 scouts report on him at 100% and they all said 4 star world class potential. I would usually pass on a player like this, with those attributes at that age but I'm quite a few seasons in now and can afford to take a few risks here and there. This one is going to be a bit of a project and I'm interested to see how he turns out.

Had 3 scouts report on him at 100% and they all said 4 star world class potential. I would usually pass on a player like this, with those attributes at that age but I'm quite a few seasons in now and can afford to take a few risks here and there. This one is going to be a bit of a project and I'm interested to see how he turns out.

Thats not too bad then, if he is 100% scouted it suggests the hidden attributes not commented on are more in the middle as they aren't listed as a weakness or a strength.

I can see him being worth a risk see how he turns out. I think a DLP is probably his best role and at the very least he should make a decent squad player.