Developing youth players

At Liverpool is it better to keep youth at my club with great coaches or to loan them out as first team players to gain experience?

It's almost always better to get players first team playing experience in terms of speeding up development..

But obviously you'd have to judge whether they are ready or not i.e physically ready, not going to risk injury etc.

Like Welshace said, it's almost always better to give them first team playing time... But there's a big asterisks attached to that statement because I don't feel it's as cut and dry as it sounds.

For example you have Liverpool, one of the biggest football clubs in the world and a perennial title contender who almost every year plays in europe to boot...

You have...

Excellent/State of the art facilities

Elite coaching staff who are all great at their jobs

Youth Level rating of 1 (the best)

Experienced first team players that can mentor kids and improve their personalities

Your own personal guidance in saying what they need to train at, whether that's relearning positions, or learning PPM's...

No first team playing experience, so that's bad.

That's quite a bit of lists of what you can give talented kids.

Then you take a random League One/League Two team, the most likely destination for a 17/18 year old with a decent amount of ability.

We take Luton Town as an example, a solid lower league side that has drifted around the leagues over the past 10 years...

You Have...

First team playing time

Average and below average facilities

Average sub-par coaching, part-time if you look outside the League system

Experienced first team players, but ones with bad mentals, and loaned players can't be tutored anyways.

No control over the training from anywhere between 1 month and an entire season.

As you can see, some pretty serious cons the further down the tree you go... And remember, unless your young 17/18 year old is a big deal, League 1/2 is about all he can get if you want to see him be a first teamer there.

So does the first team experience outweigh the massive advantages your top-flight team brings? Well, it all depends really...

I personally use a list of criteria when it comes to sending players away on loan, and whether or not the playing time will outweigh the lack of facilities and coaching.

- How old is the player, if he's 16/17 and he can use some tutoring, I'll probably let him hang around in my own youth for the time being. More often than not players will lack the ability to play for nothing more than bad lower league sides.

- What is his determination like? If the kid's an MC with 5 determination and a negative personality, and you have Jordan Henderson with 17 determination and a professional personality, it's a lot better to keep the kid around and have Hendo mentor him for 6 months to increase that determination and potentially turn him into a professional personality.

- Is the team that wants to loan him professional? This makes a big deal, with or without good facilities. Part-timers and amateurs don't train 7 days a week, which means your loaned player will not get full-time training on any given day.

- What are the facilities like? If they're average or higher, i'll think about it, if it's lower than 2.5* it's a no-go unless the league they're in is significant.

- Will the team give him First team or Key Player status? This is an important one, because if you wanted to see your youth player sit on the bench and do nothing you were better off keeping him at home instead.

- What league does the team play in. This can mitigate all the previous bullet-points quite a bit. After all if a Championship side with below average facilities wants to loan your kid as a first teamer, that's significant to say the least. Playing in the Championship is a huge boost in training, and it can outweigh average facilities if he's a regular starter.

- How important is the player? Seriously, if the kid's a 2* prospect I do a whole lot less micro-managing than if he's a 4/5* prospect. Unless you really dedicate yourself to give every single youth player optimal training, then that's your prerogative. But personally if they're not gonna be challenging for spots in the future i'll delegate most of the loaning to the DOF or HOYT, granted with every player I do make sure he's at least First Team or Key Player, because that's the least I can do...

So yeah, tl;dr, first team experience is awesome, but always be sure that the experience outweighs the lesser facilities and coaching they will no doubt be receiving at the lesser teams.

Just remember that if you loan out a player, you have zero control over their attribute development - so their attributes may not develop in line with the type of player you want.

You wouldn't loan a Liverpool youth to Luton. Don't go more than one division below if you loan a player out at all.

You wouldn't loan a Liverpool youth to Luton. Don't go more than one division below if you loan a player out at all.

Tell that to LLoyd Jones, Jordan Williams, Kevin Stewart, and Ryan Fulton

Keep in mind that the player's performances and morale also play a big part in their development. You might think it'd be a good idea to send a player to a team in the bottom half of the table, so he'd get more playing time because he would be on par or better than the other players. But if that team keeps losing and his performances falter, his morale would also plummet and hamper his development. So if you have an excellent youth setup at your club with top coaches, it might be better to leave them in your youth squad so they keep playing week in week out, it may not be first team action but it will provide them with a steady growth until they are about 18/19, which is where they will require much more first team experience to further their progress.

Does it matter at all if the league they go on loan to is a fully playable league?

I thought I read a while back they'll develop more (assuming they are a first team regular at both) at a league that is vs a league that isn't.

Does it matter at all if the league they go on loan to is a fully playable league?

I thought I read a while back they'll develop more (assuming they are a first team regular at both) at a league that is vs a league that isn't.

It doesn't, in a way it's 'better' because the game simulates games being played (and your player playing said games), and at the same time the chance for injuries are lowered.

This is a great thread and thanks for the tips deknegt1990. I've read Cleon's mind-blowing article on youth development at Ajax and it certainly opened my eyes.

However, I'm at Oxford with no cash and average/below average training facilities, so I switched my mind off youth development.

I have very low transfer budgets so I turned to lots of loans each season, as I thought it was the only answer. I've taken Oxford from L2 to 7th in the champ in 6 seasons, which I'm pretty happy with. My highest budget was £1m which I was delirious with, and I used it to snaffle a lot of Bosmans, but normal service has been resumed, with a 300k kitty in the last 2 seasons.

However reading up about youth dev, I realise I made a massive mistake and completely overlooked it. In Jan of the season just finished, I took control of the U18s individual training, sacked the rubbish coaches, gave the better prospects a new deal and binned the dross, and the results have been amazing.

Up to Jan, I'd had no youth player come near the first team. However making the following changes:

- Firing all staff with lower than 15 working with youngsters and determination

- Mentoring the best prospects with the right senior squad members

- Putting each player on individual training programmes by position so they train several attributes at once

- Releasing players with no attributes whatsoever

- The fifth I didnt manage - but if you can - ask the Board to improve youth training facilities. We didnt have any money to do this.

- Promote those who look decent to the first team squad, but ensure they play regularly for the U21s

- Train PPMs wherever possible

The results have been great. I've given a debut to an 18yo and have 2 more knocking on the door. Youth Dev is so important when you have little or no money to spend, but you have to put the groundwork in. And there's something very satisfying to see your newgens make it to the first team squad!

This is a great thread and thanks for the tips deknegt1990. I've read Cleon's mind-blowing article on youth development at Ajax and it certainly opened my eyes.

However, I'm at Oxford with no cash and average/below average training facilities, so I switched my mind off youth development.

I have very low transfer budgets so I turned to lots of loans each season, as I thought it was the only answer. I've taken Oxford from L2 to 7th in the champ in 6 seasons, which I'm pretty happy with. My highest budget was £1m which I was delirious with, and I used it to snaffle a lot of Bosmans, but normal service has been resumed, with a 300k kitty in the last 2 seasons.

However reading up about youth dev, I realise I made a massive mistake and completely overlooked it. In Jan of the season just finished, I took control of the U18s individual training, sacked the rubbish coaches, gave the better prospects a new deal and binned the dross, and the results have been amazing.

Up to Jan, I'd had no youth player come near the first team. However making the following changes:

- Firing all staff with lower than 15 working with youngsters and determination

- Mentoring the best prospects with the right senior squad members

- Putting each player on individual training programmes by position so they train several attributes at once

- Releasing players with no attributes whatsoever

- The fifth I didnt manage - but if you can - ask the Board to improve youth training facilities. We didnt have any money to do this.

- Promote those who look decent to the first team squad, but ensure they play regularly for the U21s

- Train PPMs wherever possible

The results have been great. I've given a debut to an 18yo and have 2 more knocking on the door. Youth Dev is so important when you have little or no money to spend, but you have to put the groundwork in. And there's something very satisfying to see your newgens make it to the first team squad!

This is the satisfaction of lower league management. Personally training and nurturing youngsters to the first team

definitely - I took my eye off the ball. You dont need to micro-manage completely - just focus on it every 2-3 months and change the training routine/mentoring/PPM training for the kids who are really worth it. Which is a small % of the U18 squad anyway

This is why I prefer lower league management. Although if the kid is too good, it's really hard to keep hold of them. Especially when you can't get monster 6-8 year contacts to tie them down long term. When they are apart of the foundation of the club they really bond with you and the longer they're at the club the more chance of them rejecting advances from the big boys. As long as you're successful obviously. Although the are some players with low ambition and high loyalty who will stick by you through the rough times

yes good point. But the cashflow situation at Oxford meant that I probably would have sold good young players so I could use Dev as an income stream.

I just didnt develop any!

I use a simple rule that works.

They stay at the club between 16-18 so that I can influence their growth. If they are >18 and are good enough to make appearances in the senior team and only if they can make more than 10 then they stay at my club. If they will never see the light of day, I make sure that they are loaned out to a club playing top tier football as a first team regular. Sometimes even clubs in the same league coome calling. Now if they end up at a club thats in a league lower then they need to be guaranteed playing time. In most cases they stay at my club, only the really bad players get loaned out. Essentially my youth team coaches and facilities are top notch. Only the best stay and get rotated and then I can even hawk them off for incredible sums. The weak are usually loaned out.

I find the ones that are worth keeping, usually stay in the ranks and slowly work their way into the first team. Most of those that attract loan offers are never really going to cut it, unless I have been promoting them for loan.

I like to promote them out for loan if they have turned 18, are at least 2.5+ stars PA and have decent starting distribution of stats for how I want to use them. By the time they reach their 20, positions in the team have opened up and they are ready to start the transition to first team.

I remember one such player that I completely overlooked as no one wanted him on loan and he was only ever 2 stars PA, so I never looked to get him out on loan myself. trawled my reserves one day and saw this 23 year old sitting there, not complaining, slowly developing into a solid DM\MC who is now 32 and has spent the best part of 10 years as a lynch pin in my squad.

I think it will vary from player to play and some will develop best away on loan and some will develop best locally at the club.