Johan Cruyff's 3-4-3 Diamond (Very Fluid)

At Cardiff, I've got Anthony Pilkington as one of my wingers and he's pretty decent at Championship level.

But he's the only one moaning every week about the extra training he's been asked to do, even though most players are doing extra too.

I was trying to figure out what attribute(s), either visible or hidden, affect a player's attitude towards training in this way.

I expected Work Rate to be one of the most important factors and then maybe Stamina/Natural Fitness from the visible attributes. For the hidden ones, I'd say Professionalism, Temperament and maybe Ambition.

The thing is, he doesn't have low ratings in any of these.

So any idea what am I missing?

At Cardiff, I've got Anthony Pilkington as one of my wingers and he's pretty decent at Championship level.

But he's the only one moaning every week about the extra training he's been asked to do, even though most players are doing extra too.

I was trying to figure out what attribute(s), either visible or hidden, affect a player's attitude towards training in this way.

I expected Work Rate to be one of the most important factors and then maybe Stamina/Natural Fitness from the visible attributes. For the hidden ones, I'd say Professionalism, Temperament and maybe Ambition.

The thing is, he doesn't have low ratings in any of these.

So any idea what am I missing?

Afraid not. I haven't really seen a trend.

At Cardiff, I've got Anthony Pilkington as one of my wingers and he's pretty decent at Championship level.

But he's the only one moaning every week about the extra training he's been asked to do, even though most players are doing extra too.

I was trying to figure out what attribute(s), either visible or hidden, affect a player's attitude towards training in this way.

I expected Work Rate to be one of the most important factors and then maybe Stamina/Natural Fitness from the visible attributes. For the hidden ones, I'd say Professionalism, Temperament and maybe Ambition.

The thing is, he doesn't have low ratings in any of these.

So any idea what am I missing?

The attributes you're looking for i believe are called Professionalism and Controversy.

How do you find to be the best way to see if your pressings effective is their certain stats etc to look out for ? watching the game can only tell you so much although I watch it on extended, think the system is going well for my save

How do you find to be the best way to see if your pressings effective is their certain stats etc to look out for ? watching the game can only tell you so much although I watch it on extended, think the system is going well for my save

Watching games is the main way. Possession % is also a reasonably good indication.

You're looking for how much space and time does the opposition player have on the ball? Who are his passing options? Are they marked? Are your players leaving any gaps when they press? How quickly are you regaining the ball?

Watching games is the main way. Possession % is also a reasonably good indication.

You're looking for how much space and time does the opposition player have on the ball? Who are his passing options? Are they marked? Are your players leaving any gaps when they press? How quickly are you regaining the ball?

Thanks mate, even with my wingers on support I still find my defence gets a tad bit exposed too much for my liking

Carles Arena, Thanks. Pilks is fine with those so not sure why he has a problem.

He's the only one though so I won't be changing anything just for him.

Excellent thread Ö-zil-to-the-Arsenal!, I've adopted the 3-6-1 for use with Ajax and it's working very well domestically.

I'd developed a 4-2-3-1-Wide and we had incredible amounts of possession without doing much with it, mostly because of a low tempo and restrictive shape and passing options. So i binned the Retain Possession, Work Ball and Low Tempo TI's and moved to a highly flexible shape with a 5 man midfield and trusted the intelligent players to know where to sit. It's worked wonders domestically, nobody can hold a candle to us and it's allowed me to risk youngsters much sooner!

My only trouble is, we don't fare so well against European giants. Especially against teams employing an AML and AMR. The defence will shift over to whatever flank is being attacked, leaving gaps in the centre as 1 CB is pulled over to the attacker, and the other 2 CB's shift over. Often see a midfield runner or the opposite winger come running through the centre.

We're prone to balls over the top too, but that's the price of a high defensive line!

Just lost our first La Liga and Champions League match.

We played Real Madrid at the Bernabeu and lost 2-0 in the rain. We got shellacked. 2 shots total, 1 on goal with about 48% possession. R.Madrid was coming off a 6-1 demolition in the Spanish Cup I believe.

The other loss was a 5-2 loss at Bayern in the Champions League. We won the home leg 2-1 and were winning the away leg when the defense just absolutely fell apart. Gave up goals in the 44th and 45th minutes, then the 74th, 81st and 85th minutes. My 4-star defenders had 6.3 match ratings while my CMs had 6.5s and below. Just unbelievable. To say I was livid is an understatement.

I could read these all day. Especially loved the mention of development and squad building.

Just clinched the Liga BBVA Championship with 6 games to go in the season.

Currently we have a record of 27-4-1 with +62 GD.

Second place team, Villareal, is 19-8-5 with a +26 GD.

I've used this tactic exclusively this season and as you can see, it's produced some great results!

Just clinched the Liga BBVA Championship with 6 games to go in the season.

Currently we have a record of 27-4-1 with +62 GD.

Second place team, Villareal, is 19-8-5 with a +26 GD.

I've used this tactic exclusively this season and as you can see, it's produced some great results!

That's brilliant. Well done

So here you go - an entire season using just this tactic.

I would call this season a moderate success! We won the League Championship, the Spanish Cup and the Club World Championship. However, we were knocked out of the Champions League in the Knock-out Round vs Bayern after an abysmal showing on the away leg.

This is sort-of what I would call my "Starting XI". Injuries were a HUGE problem this year. Every game it felt like I would lose someone for 5-6 days for a little niggle or like Juan Carlos, lose him for 9 months right off the bat! That MR I was training from WB/DR? He went down with a 4-month long injury. My ability to field a consistent XI was hampered significantly due to this. At one point I had 10 first-team players out with various injuries.

There's what I'm talking about with injuries.

I found this extremely interesting.

As you can see, against worse teams, this tactic is just absolutely incredible. We score tons of goals and concede very few. However, this tactic is NOT that good against similarly reputable teams. I definitely noticed this in-game. This is born out by our inability to salt away Bayern in the Champ.League and barely qualifying from the Group Stage.

Overall, I would say this is an outstanding tactic to use if you know you're the better team. Against better or equal teams, pick something else.

I would also say that this is a front-loaded tactic as you can see we score more goals earlier in the game and fewer as the game progresses. You can also see that opponents score more goals as the match wears on as well. Might it be due to tiring legs or the team losing focus? I think focus as I often give them sideline talks about concentrating and they seem to pay off.

Here is the graphic for assist locations. It's pretty well even - and then you look at the left. lol This is because my MR, who is a 4.5 CA/PA has the injury trait. He was often missing games for stubbed toes and twisted knees. He only started 24 games to my DL/WBL/ML 4.5 CA/PA 's 36 starts.

Or so I thought.

Turns out my MR had my highest number of assists at 23 while my two players who played LM this season combined for 30 (19 and 11 respectively). My guesstimate is that the players realized that the LM was the better of the two when my star RM was out and channeled play that way giving them more opportunities.

Here are the goals by type.

And goal assists.

Here are a few End of Season overall team stats.

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Overall, I think this is an extremely good tactic, but when playing against other good teams of equal stature, you might want to go for something a little more conventional. This is also quite dependent upon where your good players are.

For this tactic to be successful, I suggest that your LM/RM and 3xCBs be your best players or you look to make them that at your earliest convenience. Of secondary importance I would say your CM trio and Forward. I would highly suggest a Forward who is good in the air. As you can see, many goals came from crosses and my CF is only 6ft tall and a jumping reach of 12.

Thank you for the analysis. That's interesting about the bigger sides. Not something I noticed with Ajax given how much better Ajax are than anyone else in Holland within a year or two.

What is Villalba's positioning / strength / work rate like? In my game he is very young, also outstanding technically but not suitable to hold the midfield. Perhaps he develops differently further down the line. The same applies for the rest of the midfield.

Here you go!

Villalba is not naturally a CM DLP(D).

For about 2/3 of the season he was my AMC. However, I saw he could play CM and thought since he's getting older he might work better back there and retrained him as such. I brought in Redaeilli to take over as he's younger and better. Unfortunately, the day before the transfer window opened, Red dislocated his shoulder and was out for 2 months. So Fran played AMC until he recovered towards the end of February.

Squad Structure

I believe SFraser actually talked about this a number of years ago. I'd like to provide a link but can't find it, if you have it please share!

The most important aspect of youth development is to actively develop those who have potential, and to lose those who don't. There is no benefit of keeping players in the U19s to "see what happens". If they don't have potential, don't have good tutoring and don't get game time then 99% of the time, they won't develop.

More concerning is that if they do have potential, but don't have a good tutor or get game time then it is also more unlikely they will develop - in this case you have just wasted a potential star.

The point I am trying to make is that if they do have potential (even if it's not huge), get them a tutor and give them game time. Get the best out of them. Worst case you send up selling.

Have you looked in the SFraser Memorial Thread? Lots of his very good posts catalogued within that thread!

I suspect it could be: A Guide to Developing Youngsters

I have found that this tactic is drastically better defensively when playing with CBs who are 6"3+ and have 15+ pace.

Have you looked in the SFraser Memorial Thread? Lots of his very good posts catalogued within that thread!

I suspect it could be: A Guide to Developing Youngsters

Fantastic. Thanks very much.

I have found that this tactic is drastically better defensively when playing with CBs who are 6"3+ and have 15+ pace.

Yes, I think that would be perfect!

I used this for a short while and noticed something similar with the CBs. I had guys with average pace who did fine, but I had to drop in an experienced 35 year old who was very slow, he got done so many times I lost count and subbed him at half time for a worse full back who was faster who actually did better.

This isn't specific to this tactic though, any high line I think is the same, pace in defence will help no end.

hello can you post link to this tactic?

I used this for a short while and noticed something similar with the CBs. I had guys with average pace who did fine, but I had to drop in an experienced 35 year old who was very slow, he got done so many times I lost count and subbed him at half time for a worse full back who was faster who actually did better.

This isn't specific to this tactic though, any high line I think is the same, pace in defence will help no end.

Yes, I think that's fair. A high line means there's space in behind so pace would help deal with any balls in behind. As would anticipation, positioning, concentration and an intelligent goalkeeper.

In fact, pace is pretty much useful in any position

Having a look at my assist locations during the winter break 10 assists from inside the opponents own half, one would guess I need much quicker defenders then

Out of interest, why do you train your players to ‘Play simple passes’?

Isn’t the point of playing ‘Balanced’ Mentality that you don’t want to restrict their passing so that they pick the best option?

Out of interest, why do you train your players to ‘Play simple passes’?

Isn’t the point of playing ‘Balanced’ Mentality that you don’t want to restrict their passing so that they pick the best option?

That is actually a very good question. For me, it's just a personal preference. I enjoy simple football. I am not sure whether simple necessarily means short but I do think it contributes to a generally 55-60% share of possession in most games, sometimes more.

hello can you post link to this tactic?

I wasn't going to approve this post, but I have just to make a point.

If this thread were about sharing a a tactical system for download, it would be in the Tactics Sharing forum.

I understand you may be keen to try this yourself, and all the elements are detailed above if you really want to copy it. However, that would be missing the point of the thread if that is indeed all you want to do. Have a think about the principles that have been discussed here instead, and how you can apply them to your own club.

Doing well with Barcelona using this tactic.

I must make clear it is not because Barcelona is amazing that it works but rather the fact I have followed all of the thread and adapted the team.

Players such as Messi do not fit into the team in terms of work rate. However I have allowed myself the luxury of using him as the other 9 outfield players are extremely hard working and determined. Rakitic does not get in the team too much because he lacks determination which I find hampers my teams overall performance especially when we are drawing. When I switched him out for Kante and Renato Sanches performances went through the roof. They are both determined and hard working. We beat Atletico 7-0.

I truly believe this is the best tactic I have ever used, but it is because the work has been put in with developing my youth and my first team players. You need the work rate and you need the determination. They are KEY to it working well. I even bought Jonathan Walters. He plays RM for my Barcelona team. 12 goals and 12 assists for me.

Competition wise. I have won La Liga, Supercup, Club World Cup and I am in the final of the Champions league.

Not bad I say.

Thanks O-zil to the Arsenal!

Doing well with Barcelona using this tactic.

I must make clear it is not because Barcelona is amazing that it works but rather the fact I have followed all of the thread and adapted the team.

Players such as Messi do not fit into the team in terms of work rate. However I have allowed myself the luxury of using him as the other 9 outfield players are extremely hard working and determined. Rakitic does not get in the team too much because he lacks determination which I find hampers my teams overall performance especially when we are drawing. When I switched him out for Kante and Renato Sanches performances went through the roof. They are both determined and hard working. We beat Atletico 7-0.

I truly believe this is the best tactic I have ever used, but it is because the work has been put in with developing my youth and my first team players. You need the work rate and you need the determination. They are KEY to it working well. I even bought Jonathan Walters. He plays RM for my Barcelona team. 12 goals and 12 assists for me.

Competition wise. I have won La Liga, Supercup, Club World Cup and I am in the final of the Champions league.

Not bad I say.

Thanks O-zil to the Arsenal!

Congratulations! I assume you have Neymar in there as well?

Congratulations! I assume you have Neymar in there as well?

Yes, he won the Ballon d'Or.

He played at LM (26 Games, 16 goals, 17 assists, 8.24 average rating) He was outstanding.

Away games are definitely tougher for me in La Liga than I would say in the Dutch league. I am going to look at doing a Simeone tactic for some of the tougher away games now (Real Madrid, Athletic). Work rate and determination are key in the Simeone system and I have that with this team so it should work. I never truly realized how important the work rate stat is until you mentioned it in this topic.

Top notch work from you and I hope there is more to come in the future!

Yes, he won the Ballon d'Or.

He played at LM (26 Games, 16 goals, 17 assists, 8.24 average rating) He was outstanding.

Away games are definitely tougher for me in La Liga than I would say in the Dutch league. I am going to look at doing a Simeone tactic for some of the tougher away games now (Real Madrid, Athletic). Work rate and determination are key in the Simeone system and I have that with this team so it should work. I never truly realized how important the work rate stat is until you mentioned it in this topic.

Top notch work from you and I hope there is more to come in the future!

Interesting. In my experience, the more attacking winger (for me, Nunnely on the right) won major accolades, and impressive goal ratios.

Yes, attributes like work rate and determination are huge. On their own, they're not enough. But if you have a talented player with work rate and determination against another talented player without work rate or determination - or even a more talented player - it'll be no contest.

Particularly when you build an entire team with these attributes, it is almost unstoppable.

Playing with Ajax with this tactic as well, and it is going great I must say! I'm just into '20/'21 and 2020 really has been our year. If, fingers crossed, we manage to win the Clubs World Cup we'll have repeated Barcelona's 2009 record of 6 prizes in a year...

As posted earlier in the topic, I did encounter difficulties defending attacks through the middle when up against 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-2-3-1 formations at times. These did not occur too often, but whenever they did, I was too exposed for comfort, a high conversion to goals from such attacks. Now I use two, very slightly different versions of this tactic depending on the opposition's formation. The only differences are in defense, without possesion.

When up against two-striker opponents, I use the instructions as outlined in the thread, though, if attacking wingbacks are giving me trouble I do switch my wingers' mentality to support.

When against a front three, I wasn't always happy with how the covering centreback and the DLP worked together to neutralize the opponent's centreforward. For in my opinion, the DLP in this system should not be seen as a pure midfield player, but rather as a defender stepping into midfield when in possession.

My setup against such opponents now features the mid-CB as a stopper, with the DLP man-marking the centreforward. This effectively means the DLP and the CB split, or share, duties. When the stopper loses a duel, the DLP will have him covered. Pretty satisfied with their defensive interplay now.

That's fantastic - which kids from the academy made it through to your first team squad?

link download?

Youth development has been, I must admit, slightly disappointing. Nunnely quickly became a key player in my first team as well, claiming the golden boy in '19, '20 and '21. Aside from him, Justin Kluivert and Matthijs de Ligt get their games in the first team, but to be fair, in the big matches others are preferred.

Then there are two promising regens. A goalkeeper called Willems, who's looking very good, though sadly not for a sweeper keeper with passing and first touch < 5... And a wonderkid striker, Groeneveld, who is a fine athlete with his physical attributes > 15, yet lacking the vision and passing skills to really function as the supporting complete forward.

Groeneveld's development has been hindered a bit by not getting too many games in the first team. This is due to me not making the decision to part with either Milik or Zivkovic, and having signed the talented Robert Moldoveanu the year before Groeneveld came through the youth academy. This Moldoveanu is a fine goalscorer, and a bit of a favourite of mine, for having 19 flair and ppm's such as lobbing the keeper and making bicycle kicks - he's good for some spectacular goals and that's good fun as well.

I also found it difficult to sign suitable tutors for my talents. In the first couple of years with Ajax, you do need to sign these, as the team barely has older players that make for good tutors. I was only satisfied with the signing of Esteban Cambiasso, who did make a great tutor for Donny van den Beek. I didn't succeed in signing Miroslav Klose as a tutor, which I still regret, I suspect he's golden asset to have when you have some young strikers in the squad.

My '20 CL final team figured: Cilessen; Tete, Ajer, Riedewald; Nunnely, Bazoer, Van den Beek (DLP), Strootman, Delgadillo; Klaassen; Moldoveanu.

And, no. I can't say I recognise either of those names?

I cant recommend reading about LaVolpiana and Ricardo La Volpe enough. He is the smoking, moutaschioed Mexican bloke, you'd have seen some of his teams/tactics. If you like a back-3 and their passing options whats few articles are out there will be right up your street.

Thank you very much. I'll keep an eye out.

Hi ö-zil, thanks a lot for this post. I can tell from your OP that you must have had so much fun when this finally came together! Every new version of FM I try to create a diamond 3-4-3 that works as it should (with Ajax) sometimes based on Cruijff's principles and his famous Barcelona side, sometimes a more rigid and disciplined version that would be more akin to van Gaal's Ajax '95 side, which was the football I grew up with. Now, I am not too sure about Cruijff's version, but in van Gaal's 3-4-3, the DM (or DLP in this tactic) would pick up the opposing striker when playing against a front 3 (or 1). Obviously, you're not in the business of recreating van Gaal's side, but it seems to make sense to me to have it like that. For, having played your tactic and very much enjoyed doing so, I did notice when up against a 'smart' opponent playing 3/1 forwards, having the centre back pick up the centre striker is risky. If it is a targetman-like striker, not so much. Then it becomes a bit of a battle of strength between the centre back (i am talking about the 'real' centre back, on cover duty) and the striker. With a player like Ajer, you'll be fine most of the time. But a 'smart' striker would drop deep, drag the CB up the pitch, leaving a gap where that CB used to be, and inside forwards or attacking midfielders overlapping the opponents' deep-dropping striker will have a blast. This is the main weakness I found in this tactic, such that, if I would be up against this one, I would definitely try to exploit this and play with a false nine coupled with an AM... I am not sure if you have encountered such movements, but wonder if you have suggestions to protect oneself from such kinds of attacks. Personally, that's why I referenced it, I think the DM/DLP picking up the striker and the CB playing even more as a cover would resolve the issue. Ideally, without possession, when up against 3/1 forwards, the DLP would play more as a CB on stopper duty, coupled with a sweeper on defend, who, well, actually covers instead of closing down the striker. Setting it up like that in FM, however, has as its downside that the CB on stopper duty doesn't venture up the pitch far enough to act as the DLP one would want him to be in possession. I tinkered around a bit with playing with a CB(stopper) coupled with a Libero (attack), such that, they kind of reverse roles when transitioning from without/with possession, and interestingly, the match engine this time around does not quite stop the Libero from pushing up beyond the CB in front of him. I found the Libero would more or less step into midfield, as one would want him to, in order to play a DLP-ish role - yet he also, does not venture into midfield quite far enough to my taste.

I digressed a bit... To summerize: it seems to me the problem when facing 3/1 forwards is to find a way to have a DLP/CB hybrid. Man marking the striker when playing a proper DLP does not quite seem to do the trick for me... I wonder if you have any ideas on this? I Always find it difficult to 'concede' and play a 4-3-3 versus 3/1 strikers. For, yes, that diamond sure looks nice doesn't it? ))

This is genius!

Hi ö-zil, thanks a lot for this post. I can tell from your OP that you must have had so much fun when this finally came together! Every new version of FM I try to create a diamond 3-4-3 that works as it should (with Ajax) sometimes based on Cruijff's principles and his famous Barcelona side, sometimes a more rigid and disciplined version that would be more akin to van Gaal's Ajax '95 side, which was the football I grew up with. Now, I am not too sure about Cruijff's version, but in van Gaal's 3-4-3, the DM (or DLP in this tactic) would pick up the opposing striker when playing against a front 3 (or 1). Obviously, you're not in the business of recreating van Gaal's side, but it seems to make sense to me to have it like that. For, having played your tactic and very much enjoyed doing so, I did notice when up against a 'smart' opponent playing 3/1 forwards, having the centre back pick up the centre striker is risky. If it is a targetman-like striker, not so much. Then it becomes a bit of a battle of strength between the centre back (i am talking about the 'real' centre back, on cover duty) and the striker. With a player like Ajer, you'll be fine most of the time. But a 'smart' striker would drop deep, drag the CB up the pitch, leaving a gap where that CB used to be, and inside forwards or attacking midfielders overlapping the opponents' deep-dropping striker will have a blast. This is the main weakness I found in this tactic, such that, if I would be up against this one, I would definitely try to exploit this and play with a false nine coupled with an AM... I am not sure if you have encountered such movements, but wonder if you have suggestions to protect oneself from such kinds of attacks. Personally, that's why I referenced it, I think the DM/DLP picking up the striker and the CB playing even more as a cover would resolve the issue. Ideally, without possession, when up against 3/1 forwards, the DLP would play more as a CB on stopper duty, coupled with a sweeper on defend, who, well, actually covers instead of closing down the striker. Setting it up like that in FM, however, has as its downside that the CB on stopper duty doesn't venture up the pitch far enough to act as the DLP one would want him to be in possession. I tinkered around a bit with playing with a CB(stopper) coupled with a Libero (attack), such that, they kind of reverse roles when transitioning from without/with possession, and interestingly, the match engine this time around does not quite stop the Libero from pushing up beyond the CB in front of him. I found the Libero would more or less step into midfield, as one would want him to, in order to play a DLP-ish role - yet he also, does not venture into midfield quite far enough to my taste.

I digressed a bit... To summerize: it seems to me the problem when facing 3/1 forwards is to find a way to have a DLP/CB hybrid. Man marking the striker when playing a proper DLP does not quite seem to do the trick for me... I wonder if you have any ideas on this? I Always find it difficult to 'concede' and play a 4-3-3 versus 3/1 strikers. For, yes, that diamond sure looks nice doesn't it? ))

Did I answer this question? It looks like I may have missed it, in which case I apologise.

Completely understand where you're coming from regarding 3 defenders getting pulled around by a long a 3-man strike force.

My main question is - is this something you have actually observed or purely theoretical?

The reason I ask is because - without changing shape and having knock on effects else where such as losing my diamond and my 5-man midfield 'band' - my answer would be compactness.

The combination of very fluid and such a high line means that this shape is as compact as possible. As you can see from the low-press shots in the main post, we become very compact when defending.

The compactness, combined with zonal marking should mean that the defence isn't dragged around. When the striker drops deep, he drops into the holding midfielder zone so the holding midfielder marks him whist the DC maintains his position. Likewise if the striker drifts to the flank, he moves into the DCR / DCL zone and the DC maintains his position.

Based on my observations on the actual match engine, striker movement dragging defenders has not been a problem. Letting the opposition get in behind the defence with pace is a far bigger problem but it is a price you pay for a high line, which gives so many other benefits.

The toughest player for me to defend against was always Martial at Man Utd. Faced him a couple of times in the Champions League and his performances were so good he inspired me to sign him and use him in the Henry-role in my Arsenal save.

Fantastic thread! I've been trying to mould my Mainz squad towards the typical Ajax style in terms of the technical side of the game but have been struggling to replicate the style of play. I was going down the 4-3-3 route but given that I'm quite partial to a 3 at the back formation this is great!

Do you think it would make any difference not being one of the bigger teams in the league? I know you mentioned you overachieved in one of your seasons, but that was using the 4-1-5-1 variation I think.

4-1-5-1? No wonder he overachieved using 11 outfield players.

Ah yes, I used a 3-1-5-1 in the first season and it was very good without the ball. The issue was that with the ball, it was difficult to get the diamonds and that the striker was often isolated. Fantastic for pressing though.

4-1-5-1? No wonder he overachieved using 11 outfield players.

Hahaha, my bad! Completely agree I can see where the overachievement came from. 12 players would definitely be a benefit

Ah yes, I used a 3-1-5-1 in the first season and it was very good without the ball. The issue was that with the ball, it was difficult to get the diamonds and that the striker was often isolated. Fantastic for pressing though.

The strikers in my squad aren't fantastic so may use this as a a way to see out a game, could even drop the STC back to AMC as I noticed somebody else in the post had done to good effect

Yea, it's certainly a solid defensive shape.

Love this formation having shifted from 4312 to this.

My major issue is how I'm conceding goals.

At the moment we're looking really solid and Olivares has just intercepted a long ball and has headed it towards Schober.

Schober is beaten to the ball by the left back who in turn plays it in to Ontiveros.The alarm bells are starting to ring now as I have too many players ahead of the ball.

My MCR has get further forward PI so I have no issue there and my MCL has hold position but he looks to far forward for my liking(maybe I need to train stays back at all times.

Big trouble now,left wing cuts the ball infield to no.15 who plays a first time ball into the feet of the no.11,the double up down the right is not looking good.

If my MCL had been deeper I think he may have been able to stop this play.

I feel a goal coming...My CD is drawn towards no.11 to make the tackle but he's to late and no.11 slides the ball out wide to no.17 who has run in behind rovik.My no.4 looks like he's in a decent position but is caught between looking out for 14 and 15 or no.7 who is about to run in behind him.

End result, 17 hits a square ball along the six yard line and 7 tucks it away.

Ultimately we won 6-5 in extra time but this type of play is proving costly.i have a couple of midfielders with stays back at all times ppm's.so will play one in my midfield trio for extra cover.

Any ideas on how to combat this?

Yes, admittedly you are being hit on the counter attack there but that looks waaay too open for my liking.

What type of players are you playing in the MR/L and MCR/L roles? Looks like they might be quite attacking players naturally? I normally balance one central midfielder support holds position whilst the other attacks and one winger is more or a wingback whilst the other is - again - more attacking.

Very interesting read, looks like it could be a fun tactic to use. Is any chance of download link please, so I could give go.

You didn't read it very well then as all the info you need Is in the first few posts without a download link

Yes, admittedly you are being hit on the counter attack there but that looks waaay too open for my liking.

What type of players are you playing in the MR/L and MCR/L roles? Looks like they might be quite attacking players naturally? I normally balance one central midfielder support holds position whilst the other attacks and one winger is more or a wingback whilst the other is - again - more attacking.

Both wingers have been retrained to play as fullbacks as I had them in my 4312 system but yes they are attacking wingers. McL was the issue as in this game I played a adv pm in that position, in my last 2 matches I've used a more defensive midfielder with hold position PI plus he has stays back at all times ppm. We are a lot more solid.

In that case, perhaps try balancing one naturally more defensive player with one naturally more attacking player. That was the sweet spot for me. My left winger was naturally a pretty complete, attacking wingback and he thrived in this system. Nunnely stole the awards with his goals and assists but the left winger was integral.

Keep your midfield as 'complete' as possible. If less hard working, players creep in then gaps will open.

I'm seeing majority of my goals coming from my wingers at the back post which I like but my striker is suffering a 6 game goal drought. He has likes to break offside trap as a ppm so I am trying him as a deep lying forward which is actually looking good as he drops deep, lays of a pass and then surges into space. He's getting shots off but the goals have dried up. What sort of target did you expect your striker to achieve through a season?