Effect of Higher Tempo

I had been thinking of the TI regarding tempo as an attacking instruction, since the team with the ball tends to dictate the pace of play. But when I play at high tempo, it seems to me that my players are also affected when we don't have the ball - more aggressive in cutting out passes as well as reacting more quickly to close down an opponent and covering more ground to do so. I'm not sure if this is also dependent on what mentality I'm playing - I haven't taken data on it or anything like that - but it's happened often enough for me to think it's definitely related. If so, then that would mean that the risk of loss of possession when playing at higher tempo is somewhat offset by the higher level of disruption of opponent's play when playing without the ball. It should also mean that winning the ball back results in quicker (and hopefully more effective) transitions to attack.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Tempo is purely a setting for when you have possession as it controls how long a player takes before making a decision with the ball, whether to run, shoot, pass etc.

So in theory a high tempo with a lower mentality would be more conducive to those looking for a Tiki Taka style of possession favouring simply number of passes?

While a lower tempo would achieve a higher possession stat in FM due to the way the games uses the chess clock method.

Tempo is purely a setting for when you have possession as it controls how long a player takes before making a decision with the ball, whether to run, shoot, pass etc.

So the quicker reactions I'm seeing on defense are simply a coincidence?

So the quicker reactions I'm seeing on defense are simply a coincidence?

Yes, it is.

So in theory a high tempo with a lower mentality would be more conducive to those looking for a Tiki Taka style of possession favouring simply number of passes?

While a lower tempo would achieve a higher possession stat in FM due to the way the games uses the chess clock method.

A higher tempo with a low mentality means just that. You're slightly raising the tempo which would be low by default because of the Mentality.

does a higher tempo mean how quick it goes from defence to attack?

It can but the primary instructions dictating how quickly your players get the ball into the attacking third are mentality & passing style.

It can but the primary instructions dictating how quickly your players get the ball into the attacking third are mentality & passing style.

Ok, so say I go with a control mentality which already has a quick tempo, I then select retain possession which reduces the passing range of all player by one setting. Tempo is adjusted one setting lower and width is adjusted one setting lower. So now tempo is slower than the standard setting of control, if I select higher tempo then it should be the same a the standard setting, correct?

Ok, so say I go with a control mentality which already has a quick tempo, I then select retain possession which reduces the passing range of all player by one setting. Tempo is adjusted one setting lower and width is adjusted one setting lower. So now tempo is slower than the standard setting of control, if I select higher tempo then it should be the same a the standard setting, correct?

It will make the tempo for control higher than the normal base line it comes with. All it does is adjust the baseline the mentality structure comes with. So if you go higher it'll give you more tempo than normal, if you go lower it will give you lower tempo than normal.

It will make the tempo for control higher than the normal base line it comes with. All it does is adjust the baseline the mentality structure comes with. So if you go higher it'll give you more tempo than normal, if you go lower it will give you lower tempo than normal.

Well that is interesting, I thought by adding TIs which reduced tempo it would be logical to offset. Learnt something new today.

Well that is interesting, I thought by adding TIs which reduced tempo it would be logical to offset. Learnt something new today.

There is only one shout that alters tempo, so you can't offset anything.

There is only one shout that alters tempo, so you can't offset anything.

So it seems, I always thought retain possession reduced passing range and tempo, where shorter passing just reduced range.

So it seems, I always thought retain possession reduced passing range and tempo, where shorter passing just reduced range.

Tempo was decoupled from that shout quite some time ago now

Oh, must of missed the memo

Cheers for clearing it up Cleon.

Tempo was decoupled from that shout quite some time ago now

Just to clarify - tempo is not coupled to the retain possession shout? Then why does the tempo indicator on the TI screen drop whenever I click "Retain Possession" and increase when I take it off?

it's a bug apparently..

Just to clarify - tempo is not coupled to the retain possession shout? Then why does the tempo indicator on the TI screen drop whenever I click "Retain Possession" and increase when I take it off?

Because it's a visualbug and has been raised already, but it wasn't an easy fix for this version of the game.

Ah, okay, good to know. So, if I want to retain possession (ie. limit my players to only safe, short passes) AND lower the tempo, I need to lower the tempo before hitting retain possession?

Ah, okay, good to know. So, if I want to retain possession (ie. limit my players to only safe, short passes) AND lower the tempo, I need to lower the tempo before hitting retain possession?

Good question, I'd like to know this too.

Ah, okay, good to know. So, if I want to retain possession (ie. limit my players to only safe, short passes) AND lower the tempo, I need to lower the tempo before hitting retain possession?

Wont make a difference what order you select them, tempo only effects the mentality setting. So, say you are using control and select lower tempo this will only reduce the time spent by each player on the ball.

Selecting 'Retain Possession' will effect the players passing range eg. mixed to short and instruct them to play fewer risky passes. Retain Possession will not have any impact on tempo.

If my mentality is set to "counter" and my tempo is set to "lower", clicking on Retain Possession will drop the indicator down to the equivalent of "much lower", with no room to drop it any lower. But, based on what Cleon posted above, the ME will still read the tempo as "lower". But if I reset tempo to "much lower" and then click on Retain Possession, tempo will be "much lower".

If my mentality is set to "counter" and my tempo is set to "lower", clicking on Retain Possession will drop the indicator down to the equivalent of "much lower", with no room to drop it any lower. But, based on what Cleon posted above, the ME will still read the tempo as "lower". But if I reset tempo to "much lower" and then click on Retain Possession, tempo will be "much lower".

I'd be inclined to ignore it due to the graphical bug that has been reported.

If my mentality is set to "counter" and my tempo is set to "lower", clicking on Retain Possession will drop the indicator down to the equivalent of "much lower", with no room to drop it any lower. But, based on what Cleon posted above, the ME will still read the tempo as "lower". But if I reset tempo to "much lower" and then click on Retain Possession, tempo will be "much lower".

I explained it's a graphical bug. It doesn't change your tempo so only by using the tempo shout would change actual tempo.

I understand. But as I pointed out above, there are conditions under which the graphical interface will not allow a further downward adjustment in tempo one the retained possession shout has been clicked.

Tempo is purely a setting for when you have possession as it controls how long a player takes before making a decision with the ball, whether to run, shoot, pass etc.

would you say decision is an important attribute if you want to play higher tempo then? if you want to play possession football with a higher tempo you'd need quality players.

in game on lower tempo are they more likely to make a better decision then if they take more time?

I understand. But as I pointed out above, there are conditions under which the graphical interface will not allow a further downward adjustment in tempo one the retained possession shout has been clicked.

But it's a graphical bug, ignore it. The only way to change tempo is by using a tempo shout. It doesn't matter what else shows, it's wrong due to the graphical bug.........

would you say decision is an important attribute if you want to play higher tempo then? if you want to play possession football with a higher tempo you'd need quality players.

in game on lower tempo are they more likely to make a better decision then if they take more time?

Decisions is always an important attribute. Possession football at any tempo will need Decisions as there will be a lot of decisions to be made.

But it's a graphical bug, ignore it. The only way to change tempo is by using a tempo shout. It doesn't matter what else shows, it's wrong due to the graphical bug.........

I'm going to try this one more time. If I'm on a Counter mentality, with tempo set to "lower" and I want to BOTH further lower the tempo AND retain possession, the graphical bug to which you refer makes it necessary to lower the tempo BEFORE I retain possession, because if I retain possession first, the graphical bug shows the tempo as much lower even though we all know it hasn't been changed. If you don't believe me, try it yourself.

I'm going to try this one more time. If I'm on a Counter mentality, with tempo set to "lower" and I want to BOTH further lower the tempo AND retain possession, the graphical bug to which you refer makes it necessary to lower the tempo BEFORE I retain possession, because if I retain possession first, the graphical bug shows the tempo as much lower even though we all know it hasn't been changed. If you don't believe me, try it yourself.

You're making this far too complicated. If you leave the Team Instruction screen, you still see a list of active TIs. If lower tempo isn't there, it's not activated.

You're making this far too complicated. If you leave the Team Instruction screen, you still see a list of active TIs. If lower tempo isn't there, it's not activated.

Yes, I know. It stays at "lower" even though the TI screen indicates "much lower". And if it's at "lower" and I want it at "much lower", I have to select it before I select "retain possession". It really isn't complicated at all.

Yes, I know. It stays at "lower" even though the TI screen indicates "much lower". And if it's at "lower" and I want it at "much lower", I have to select it before I select "retain possession". It really isn't complicated at all.

There you go. You have the answer then.

Edit: I just checked and you still have it a bit wrong. Tempo doesn't change if you switch between Retain Possession being on or off. The bars shorten, but it stays at the setting you have it. If it was on "Normal", it stays there. If it was set at "Much Lower" then it stays there. If you have Standard Mentality with a Lower Tempo and then switch to Counter, Lower is still active regardless of Retain Possession. The bug is two-fold. 1 - You can't select Lower on Defend and Counter, but it can be active if you go from Standard to Counter/Defend and 2 - The bars shouldn't shorten with Retain Possession.

TL;DR... Retain Possession doesn't affect tempo at all.

You are confusing me more and more:) Why sequence of clicking is important now?

Consider that normal tempo is 5 second per decision.

When i switch mentality from "standard" to "counter", tempo will the same: 5 seconds for decision?

When i check "retain possession" tempo will the same: 5 seconds for decision?

When i switch passing from "mixed" to "short", tempo will the same: 5 seconds for decision?

Whatever i change, except tempo shout itself, the tempo will the same: 5 seconds for decision?

And finally, when i switch tempo from normal to lower one, tempo will 7 seconds for decision?

It's simple. There are 5 tempo settings for each Mentality.

Each Mentality has Much Lower, Lower, unchanged/default, Higher and Much Higher.

Contain will have the lowest default Tempo. It steps up from there with each Mentality, so Overload will have the highest.

Now, due to a UI issue, there may be some issues with lower/much lower. When you exit the TI screen, you can double-check what is selected though.

Now, due to a UI issue, there may be some issues with lower/much lower. When you exit the TI screen, you can double-check what is selected though.

would say this is what makes it not simple, given that most people playing the game will never read this information.

Now, due to a UI issue, there may be some issues with lower/much lower.

Thank you. That is exactly the point I was making.

would say this is what makes it not simple, given that most people playing the game will never read this information.

It really doesn't matter that much. The difference between the two settings will be slight. As I said, you can still double check what's actually selected.

Thank you. That is exactly the point I was making.

I edited my reply to you earlier, so just checking that you've seen it. There's definitely a UI issue though.

Yes, and it was the UI issue I was addressing.

Decisions is always an important attribute. Possession football at any tempo will need Decisions as there will be a lot of decisions to be made.

but it is harder to retain possession on a higher tempo? is it easier to for the players to make the better decisions on lower tempo?

so what would people say are an advantge of high tempo and and advantage of low temp?

so what would people say are an advantge of high tempo and and advantage of low temp?

Higher tempo

Adv: Plays faster and so can pull opposition out of position and is more incisive because opposition have to be quick to react to what you are doing.

Dis: Requires good players, playing at that speed means mistakes are more likely to be made or poor decisions and misplaced passes etc.

Lower tempo

Adv: Easier to keep the ball and shape, less mistakes.

Dis: Easier for opposition to keep their shape, and also easier for them to intercept the ball from you or close you down.

Thats my take on it.

so what would people say are an advantge of high tempo and and advantage of low temp?

And remember that there's a difference between highER and lowER tempo and just simply HIGH and LOW tempo.

A higher tempo on Defend Mentality is still a low tempo, it's just a bit highER than default.

And remember that there's a difference between highER and lowER tempo and just simply HIGH and LOW tempo.

A higher tempo on Defend Mentality is still a low tempo, it's just a bit highER than default.

So HUNT3R would standard with higher tempo selected take it to the same level the default control setting would be?

So HUNT3R would standard with higher tempo selected take it to the same level the default control setting would be?

Cleon, THoG etc may be able to tell you. I don't know and tbh, I don't really care. If I see that my tempo is higher than I'd like or if my players are rushing unnecessarily, I drop it. If we're taking to long with the ball, I increase it. I don't think "Oh now it is the same as Control's tempo" because, really, what's the benefit?

I won't raise/lower the Mentality just because the tempo isn't what I want it to be. Mentality governs everything, so it is just simpler to change the tempo, if tempo is the issue.

So HUNT3R would standard with higher tempo selected take it to the same level the default control setting would be?

No it will still be less than the next mentality structure because of the base you start with. That's what mentality is, the base your current settings are build from.

so what would people say are an advantge of high tempo and and advantage of low temp?

Think about what playing at a faster tempo means in real life - faster decision-making. When I coached youth soccer, I had a warmup passing drill that required a player to whom a ball was being passed to call out whom he was going to pass to before he touched the ball. Players have to react instinctively not only on pass/dribble/shoot decisions, but also on when and where to make OTB runs. This also gives the opposition less time to read the play and react to it. So, on the whole, if you play higher tempo in FM, you risk losing possession because the player to whom you pass may not be ready to receive it or may not be running where the passer thought he was. I suspect this is the reason that Cleon, in his Art of Possession thread, recommended lowering tempo for possession tactics. But there is a downside to lower tempo. The extra decision making time you give your players is also available to your opponent. Against a side playing aggressive defensively, you may well find that your players are holding the ball too long and losing possession because they have no viable passing options.

In the end, it comes down to the on-field IQ your players have. If you have players with high numbers in first touch, passing, decisions, off-ball and vision, you are well suited to play higher tempo (subject to the other tactical exigencies of the match).

Think about what playing at a faster tempo means in real life - faster decision-making. When I coached youth soccer, I had a warmup passing drill that required a player to whom a ball was being passed to call out whom he was going to pass to before he touched the ball. Players have to react instinctively not only on pass/dribble/shoot decisions, but also on when and where to make OTB runs. This also gives the opposition less time to read the play and react to it. So, on the whole, if you play higher tempo in FM, you risk losing possession because the player to whom you pass may not be ready to receive it or may not be running where the passer thought he was. I suspect this is the reason that Cleon, in his Art of Possession thread, recommended lowering tempo for possession tactics. But there is a downside to lower tempo. The extra decision making time you give your players is also available to your opponent. Against a side playing aggressive defensively, you may well find that your players are holding the ball too long and losing possession because they have no viable passing options.

In the end, it comes down to the on-field IQ your players have. If you have players with high numbers in first touch, passing, decisions, off-ball and vision, you are well suited to play higher tempo (subject to the other tactical exigencies of the match).

Nah, he did not recommend lowering tempo. He just posted an example and in that example, he lowered the tempo. You can still play a possession game with Higher Tempo. I've done it before and it has worked out well...

in real life would you say Barca play high temp possession football,

in my save we do better on a low tempo results wise, i might start seeing he we do against weaker teams with a high tempo.

but we are a team who plays better than the quality of players we have.

You can't compare real life teams and what tempo they use because 99% of team alternate and vary throughout 90 minutes.

Surely then tempo should be used situationally and altered depending on how a game is going and who the opposition is.