Why I have struggled with this years FM

I'm a very infrequent poster on this forum but having played FM16 for 5 months or so now thought I would just share my thoughts on why I have struggled to enjoy this version of the game.

First of all I will admit that this version seems tougher than the last few and that has contributed to me not enjoying this game. While winning every game is boring its also not very enjoyable to struggle to get results week in week out. I do not, however, believe that the game is 'cheating', its just that I haven't managed to get a handle on the tactics this year.

This is where I think the route of my problem is this year. This is by far and away the most realistic version of FM produced to date but is that necessarily a good thing? I believe that the game has almost become too realistic and to be any good in this version of the game I have to spend hours analysing every aspect of my tactics in the prozone screen to identify why my passes aren't connecting, watching endless replays of goals I conceded to understand why I conceded, and fiddling with the player instructions to make the minute adjustments that I think might make my team play a little better next week.

I work for a living and when I get back home in the evening I might try and steal an hour or so to play FM but I find that in that hour I'll only manage to play one match (badly!) and spend my time endlessly analysing one game. As a result in 5 months I haven't actually managed to complete a season because its taking so long to get through games. In previous versions of the game I'd have been on about season 3 by this point in the year but with the attention to tactical detail playing FM is almost becoming a job all by itself now

I'm sure lots of people really enjoy the challenge of working out what has gone wrong with their tactic, analysing it, then putting it right. I'm also sure that there are lots of players out there that have found the game pretty straight forward and have built dominant teams in their saves. Me? With a full time job and the other commitments that life gives us, I just don't have the time to put that effort in to a game.

Perhaps it just me. Maybe FM has now evolved beyond my capability to play the game. That would be a shame because it is a game I have really enjoyed over the years and still really want to be able to enjoy. It might just be though that 'm no longer able to put in the time, effort and dedication that the game demands of its players.

I think the game works still for both kind of managers: Those who are fiddling and tweaking tactics for hours and those who are just using some standard tactics with additional instructions. I'm someone in-between, sometimes I'm analyzing and tweaking and sometimes I just replacing two or three players. In my experience changing to much to often has a negative impact. Sometimes some stubborness can end-up in a good run.

Try playing classic/touch mode

Totally see where OP is coming from. For me, the joy of FM was to take over a team and eventually work out a style of play and formation that gets results, then slowly build the squad until you're challenging on all fronts, keeping that identity you found early on. With this version of FM it's just not possible, a tactic can easily destroy a top team away and then a week later lose to a relegation candidate at home and it's not always immediately clear how this is happening. You'll just see players misplacing easy passes, defending differently to previous games, etc. This results in having to really chop and change tactics where previously you'd just make a few minor tweaks here and there to fix issues.

It's just less fun and more of a battle against the game to try and get your tactics working. I don't download tactics, but I've read through nearly every thread on the tactics board and when I see a formation with two false 9s and two wing backs in a flat back 4 being one of the more successful ones, it confuses the hell out of me. Everything I know about football says that just shouldn't work, the false 9 is already an incredibly specialist position and to have two in the same team and make it work is insane. Couple that with two wing backs in a back 4 and that's just... it just wouldn't happen in real life.

To sum up, I used to enjoy playing FM 95% of the time, but with this version it's down to about 70% and is so much more frustrating that previous versions.

Totally see where OP is coming from. For me, the joy of FM was to take over a team and eventually work out a style of play and formation that gets results, then slowly build the squad until you're challenging on all fronts, keeping that identity you found early on. With this version of FM it's just not possible, a tactic can easily destroy a top team away and then a week later lose to a relegation candidate at home and it's not always immediately clear how this is happening. You'll just see players misplacing easy passes, defending differently to previous games, etc. This results in having to really chop and change tactics where previously you'd just make a few minor tweaks here and there to fix issues.

I'm eight seasons into my current save and haven't changed my tactics once. I play with a simple 4-4-2 with only minimal changes for home and away matches. I've taken the team from the bottom league in England to the Championship so far. It's a myth that you need to constantly change tactics.

I'm eight seasons into my current save and haven't changed my tactics once. I play with a simple 4-4-2 with only minimal changes for home and away matches. I've taken the team from the bottom league in England to the Championship so far. It's a myth that you need to constantly change tactics.

I'm very happy for you, but not everyone is having the same success as you. I mean, I've been doing fine in my save, as well as I'd expect, but only because I'm constantly chopping and changing. If you've taken a team from the bottom league to the Championship without having to change the mentality or tactics at any point, then that doesn't really strike me as realistic either.

I'm eight seasons into my current save and haven't changed my tactics once. I play with a simple 4-4-2 with only minimal changes for home and away matches. I've taken the team from the bottom league in England to the Championship so far. It's a myth that you need to constantly change tactics.

Actually, Dave, can you upload that save? I'd be super interested in seeing some of the matches throughout the leagues and how teams have played against you. I'd never taken a team that far through the divisions.

It won't help with FMs in general, but in FM 16 you just set up your tactic to spam crosses and off you go. Fullbacks/wingbacks on attack, IFs or WMa in front of them, Control mentality to prevent conceding from crosses and that's it. When squad building, focus on pace and acceleration.

That's all there is to FM 16 if you want to be extremely successful without diving into tactical nuances.

The core formation might be the same but are you sure you haven't been fine tuning your overall strategy over the seasons to better suit your new signings & the level of opposition, how closely does your current setup compare to what you used for your first competitive match of the save?

It's been the exact same tactic I used in the VN North as I'm using in the Championship. I think I've hit a peak there though, and I might need to be more adventurous going forward, but I'll see how it goes for now. Not having money to spend on good players to get to the PL doesn't help either, mind.

It does make logical sense that you could rise up to the Championship while sticking to a core system, seen more than enough teams do it irl. What then sets the top teams & managers apart from the rest is being able to adapt for a challenge at the higher level of the game.

Good luck in your push for the lottery win of promotion to the Premier League.

If you've taken a team from the bottom league to the Championship without having to change the mentality or tactics at any point, then that doesn't really strike me as realistic either.

It would be unrealistic had I used the same players every season, but the key thing for me in this year's FM over previous FM's is how important it is to find the right players to play in the roles on the park. My central midfield duo is an AP and a B2B midfielder. If I find a player who's better than everyone I have but doesn't have either of those two roles as either of their two most effective roles, I won't sign him. Similarly, I play with a DF and an AF up front, and the same rules apply. And it's not easy finding good defensive forwards.

The tactic is solid. I've not raced through the leagues, it took 7 seasons to get to the Championship. But it's worked well, and it hasn't required any tinkering. As I said the only differences are in the home and away tactic, although now I'm in the Championship, I almost exclusively use the away tactic as most teams are better than mine.

It would be unrealistic had I used the same players every season, but the key thing for me in this year's FM over previous FM's is how important it is to find the right players to play in the roles on the park. My central midfield duo is an AP and a B2B midfielder. If I find a player who's better than everyone I have but doesn't have either of those two roles as either of their two most effective roles, I won't sign him. Similarly, I play with a DF and an AF up front, and the same rules apply. And it's not easy finding good defensive forwards.

The tactic is solid. I've not raced through the leagues, it took 7 seasons to get to the Championship. But it's worked well, and it hasn't required any tinkering. As I said the only differences are in the home and away tactic, although now I'm in the Championship, I almost exclusively use the away tactic as most teams are better than mine.

Sounds good. Can you upload the save?

Sounds good. Can you upload the save?

Even if I wanted to, I have absolutely no idea how to.

Completely see where OP is coming from, I work from home currently (about to change) but I still don't get any time to sit down and play for hours on end.

It's usually short bursts here and there.. or when I do get some time, I can't quite decide what to do or who to take on.

I can't tell you the amount of times I've started a career save, only to quit before getting to xmas first season even.

But I also recognise that this is mostly down to me not using the tools that are available to me, such as FM touch, or letting the assistant take on a lot of the work for me.. I micromanage to much that I make very little progress and my interest soon wanes in the game.

I'm hoping, with a bit more structure in my job now, that i'll make time to sit down and play whenever I can and get a real save going again.

Even if I wanted to, I have absolutely no idea how to.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/441296

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/441296

That's going to upload it to SI's FTP server where only they can access it. Upload the game somewhere else.

Completely see where OP is coming from, I work from home currently (about to change) but I still don't get any time to sit down and play for hours on end.

It's usually short bursts here and there.. or when I do get some time, I can't quite decide what to do or who to take on.

I can't tell you the amount of times I've started a career save, only to quit before getting to xmas first season even.

But I also recognise that this is mostly down to me not using the tools that are available to me, such as FM touch, or letting the assistant take on a lot of the work for me.. I micromanage to much that I make very little progress and my interest soon wanes in the game.

I'm hoping, with a bit more structure in my job now, that i'll make time to sit down and play whenever I can and get a real save going again.

I get the same thing, and I work at home (which is essentially goofing off on FM) three days a week. Whenever I start struggling I start over-analysing. I've had very enjoyable saves on FM16 which started slowly, but with effective squad-building (as mentioned by Dag Dave) I've won two consecutive promotions with the same tactic. Then on another save I'll go on a ten-match winless run, start fumbling about tactically like an FM novice and have even had to revert to watching the game on full highlights to diagnose my problems. Then my work suffers, I'm stressing out over a deadline I might miss, cancelling social engagements in order to catch up on work I've been ignoring due to FM, and after a few days of stress I bin the save and leave FM for a while.

It took me 16 seasons and several different systems throughout the years, until I finally came up with a tactic that seems to work untouched every match, allowing me to play on speeded up extended highlights without major worries. Even then, I still just hit a relatively poor slump right now.

So yes, FM16 is hard and I can totally see where you're coming from.

OP, I'm in a similar situation as you. Speaking for myself, I may have to entertain the possibility that I'm simply not very good at this thing. The few good saves I've had seem to be down to luck. The joy is in the next two hour fix in which I've convinced myself that I will enjoy the match no matter what happens.

I'm done with over-analysing everything. I started unemployed and got the Tempo Overijse job in Belgium Division 3. I chose a very defensive 4-2-3-1 while telling the board we want to play possesion football. With that i got promoted 2 times in three years, but we played some seriously crappy football. Once i got into the top league, i said : screw it. I'm going to play all out attack with a 4-2-4 and see how they like that. Since then i've been champion every year, won the cup 12 times, got into the semi-final of the EUROcup and the quarter finals of the CL. We get constant praises for our attack AND defence, having only 25 shots on goal would be considered a bad game and we continue to be on that roll for the time being. So don't give up and try some fancy tactics, you might strike gold before you know it.

Even if I wanted to, I have absolutely no idea how to.

Upload the save to mediafire and copy the link here

I too struggled a little bit, but I think there has been a shift in the AI and match engine which will exploit attacking tactics that are used time and time again.

I started with Boston in the conference north. Battled through the playoffs and had 2 mid table seasons in the conference tinkering, rotating and changing everything all the time to 2nd guess where I was losing out. Figured that was why I was horribly inconsistent. In my 3rd season in the conference, while I had improved my squad in all areas I changed to a mantra of I will concede less goals then the opposition rather than score more which is my normal approach. This more structured, less risky approach worked great and won me the league. While I've only signed a couple of players I'm also hold my own in League 2 alternating between a 4-1-4-1 and the 4-1-2-2-1 asymmetric formations.

Certainly when managing lower leagues, the less complex and risky the tactics the greater the reward.

Simplicity and consistency is key. Also having the right expectations and understanding that you're going to lose sometimes no matter what you do, especially early on in a save.

Over analysing never gets anyone anywhere. Have a balanced, sensible, moderate, simple base that you can tweak from. Adjust your tactic slightly during games depending on the opposition's approach and match situation, rather than tearing everything up between them. The AI is much more sophisticated than it used to be in changing during games, which is where most people's struggles come from.

Try to get the right balance between being patient and not panicking, and not being afraid to change things. Don't stick rigidly to the 'rules' of the game laid out by some posters. If it's late in the game and you need to score, go Attacking. If you're hanging on, drop to Counter and Retain Possession. If the opposition is killing you in space in one part of the pitch, change formation. If you think you really need to do something and have an idea of what to do, do it.

Finally, experiment with all the different roles, duties, instructions, mentalities etc. The best way to learn is by doing and watching what happens. All the tools are there in the game to succeed and achieve whatever you want. You just need to learn how to put them into practice.

I empathise completely with the OP as I had found myself in a similar situation where I became exasperated that literally nothing would work, even when I went back to basics and stuck to principles that should work.

There's a thread by Jambo98 (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/449242-Rebooting-the-451-for-FM-2016) where he eventually gets fed up and refers to the game as 'crossing manager 16' and I felt a grim sense of satisfaction that it wasn't just me and almost enjoyed his struggles (sorry Jambo).

Despite a successful couple of seasons in my long-term save, I've found that I could no longer get my original strategy to work at all and wasn't enjoying watching my team regardless of the result. I'm playing FMT16 and was definitely guilty of lots of tinkering and would start the season with a clear plan and as soon as a couple of poor performances went by I ripped it up and started again (helped of course by the lack of tactical familiarity on FMT).

What has helped has been finding a formation exploits the strengths of my best players (lots of good CMs/AMCs and good wingers) and minimises my weaknesses (no real quality in central defence or centre forward...nothing crucial then!)

I kind of accidentally stumbled across what started as a 3-1-4-1-1 (or 3-6-1) and is now a classic 3-1-4-2, Standard and Flexible with only a couple of TIs and I'm on a really good run of form as a result. Most importantly, I'm loving the football they play which is probably a combination of the roles selected and finally getting the best out of my squad.

I am predicted to finish 24th and I always have to remind myself of that fact when I get hammered by a recently relegated big club, but I do feel your pain and encourage you to stick at it. The feeling of relief and enjoyment is worth it if and when you come out the other end...

It's been the exact same tactic I used in the VN North as I'm using in the Championship. I think I've hit a peak there though, and I might need to be more adventurous going forward, but I'll see how it goes for now. Not having money to spend on good players to get to the PL doesn't help either, mind.

I did the same with my current save. The overall setup hasn't change much until I get to EPL. Until then, I just kept it simple and only adjust some of the individual player role at midfield and forwards. Otherwise, I think the only time I overhaul a tactic was when I was down to one striker. And even then, it was merely a case of dropping one of the forward to midfield and kept the rest the same.

For the OP, try not to over think the tactics so much and takes it to the stride. I've found that a lot of the time a tactical setup that seem hopeless in the first three months in the season will end up clicking nicely later on. If you don't feel like spending hours to setup for one match, then don't do it and see how it goes. don't over think it and just tries to enjoy the the game within the time that you have.

I'm struggling this year too, not scared to admit it. It less cryptic this year, it explains well what each option does and its quite restrictive this year actually, you have less options really, the roles force you to follow them and stop you making conflicting instructions. Fells more streamlined or dumbed down, I'm not sure thats the right word, but lack of a better one. More simplified, less cryptic.

Ive sat and watched the full match on every game to see whats going wrong. I can see what the problem is, the team are constantly doing the wrong thing basically. Passing is shocking. Hitting and hoping, launching it, under no pressure. Its not as if its lack of better options, they are just chosing the wrong one as if it was intentional. They are just chosing to hit it as hard as they can as quick as they can in any direction they are facing as often as they can. It looks like they are passing to the opposition on purpose sometimes. If its better to pass they will shoot, if its better to shoot they will pass, if all they have to do is shoot, they will stand there waiting until someone comes along to stop them. Its like they are trying there best to mess it up.

So I come to the conclusion its because its too attacking, they are rushing everything, so Ive slowly tweaked it over the games to be much less gung ho. Very slowly, over a period of games. Went down to a more defensive mentality, Fewer riskier passes on the entire team, shorter passing, moved all the panicking hit and hopers down to support or less so they arent trying attacking balls every pass. reduced the tempo. Its basically the opposite mentality to what it was at the start.

Absolutely made no difference at all, it looks like Ive never touched it. Still playing the exactly the same panicked gung ho football for no reason they were with the tactic at the start. Completely different instructions, producing the exact same result. It feels like a complete charade. It seems unless you pick the one or however exact combinations that si have decided works, your team will try the uptmost to lose.

Losing doesnt bother me, challenge doesnt bother me, I do not want to download a win tactic or google the win button, I think some people would love to download a win tactic, win every game and call this the best FM ever made, infact its not losing, its not bad, the team are hard to score past, they dont really lose, they just cant string 2 passes together and it seems I'm watching the little circles move around a green background trying to pretend I have anything to do with what they actually do when it doesnt seem to whatsoever. It seems like theres no relationship between the ME and your tactics. It feels like its just trying to trick you into thinking its related, when its not. I just want it to make a bit of sense and not seem to be entirely down to the multi choice morale mini game which is how it seems. I'm sure there is a way to get these little circles to play like barcelona but I think you have to find the exact secret combination SI have decided unlocks the safe. I guess if they did follow your instructions or follow a tactic and you havent discovered the magic golden one it would be too easy.

I think the game works still for both kind of managers: Those who are fiddling and tweaking tactics for hours and those who are just using some standard tactics with additional instructions. I'm someone in-between, sometimes I'm analyzing and tweaking and sometimes I just replacing two or three players. In my experience changing to much to often has a negative impact. Sometimes some stubborness can end-up in a good run.

Also there is no need to try and speed through the game. I have a job with long hours, and lots of other commitments. Still find time to play full fat FM the way I have because I don't feel I need to rush through an entire season.

People massive over analyze the game sometimes, and caught in myths such as it's all about morale (the impact of morale really isnt that big, in fact its hugely overplayed by users). It just needs a bit of patience, thinking and watching.

People massive over analyze the game sometimes, and caught in myths such as it's all about morale (the impact of morale really isnt that big, in fact its hugely overplayed by users). It just needs a bit of patience, thinking and watching.

This plus the same for tactics. The "perfect combination" of things that would cause sides to suddenly play like Barcelona versus if you would slightly divert from that completely vice versa, and AI opponents just being given all the secret settings that would unlock it all. That's incredibly bad myth that attempts to be spreaded right here too. Obviously the (forward) movement instructions inherent to a role/duty dictate a great deal if there's going to be passing options/defensive cover as players either HOLD their defensive POSITION or GET FORWARD but otherwise that's all decision making bias. People would be surprised if they actually took a look at what the AI does sometimes. However you're playing against different opposition, and just because you won (luckily or no) against the league leaders in the previous week doesn't mean you will win the next week against the dead last. Sometimes you're simply not dominating because your opp actually pushes up rather than dropping off visibly to let you dominate, whilst against the dead last you might get unlucky or overcommit against them dropping deep and hit on a counter or if unlucky from a fluke or a set-piece. For what it's worth in my opinion it was incredibly risky of Guardiola on Tuesday to field his typically high risk game in a 2nd leg where it was apparent that should Atletico score, they'd need to put 3 past them, and they were lucky to not have been 0-3 behind 2nd leg against Juve already, but then football is a game of endless "what if" scenarios typically as the scorelines are so lowly. The tactically base cores are really simple, however there's also better and worse players.

That seems actually the biggest hurdle, people looking for on/off switches when things are far subtler than this (football is a game of super super fine margins in FM no less, 90 minutes of play but few key seconds deciding the outcome). It's going to be always the same though as ambiguity is part of the deal. If SI would insert feedback that would show if a player would at all show up to his fully ability in a particular match (and they don't always, there is that hidden consistency attribute), that's something that would equally be jumped upon. It's easy to fall for a red arrow on team talks you've just seen and connect everything that follows thereafter to it. The fact is you can lose a big match because of the prolific right back on superb morale supposed to thrive on the big occasion making the error leading to the only goal of the game, whilst your left back on bad morale lacking match fitness can have a decent night at the box office. In fact that has happened to me. Just set up a save, add multiple human managers on various leagues and have them all holidaying for a season, letting the assistants do everything for you. You might be in for some interesting results.

edit1: However if people who spent additionally time to go beyond the basics (and the AI isn't that sophisticated either, though dynamically changing things during matches and to the level of opponent, i.e. not riskily pushing for yet another goal with loads of attack duties when it's already 2-0 anyway and a goal conceded could make their opposition get back into the game, or settling for a draw from kick-off), wouldn't be able to get some extra consistency out of it, SI might not at all bother to have all that stuff in the game

edit2: Born2killzone should probably upload the matches as pkms where he doesn't spot any difference despite going completely different instructions. On lower leagues, it is apparent from the patch notes that (worse) players are being tweaked to favoured direct/easier options in particular when pushed more likely. Other than that, the only time things would be that direct by default pretty much is usually fielding up a Target Man up top, typically.

I've barely touched the prozone stuff, and I don't consider myself to be struggling.

That said, I've learned a lot about my team from using the Prozone 3d ME view.

edit2: Born2killzone should probably upload the matches as pkms where he doesn't spot any difference despite going completely different instructions. On lower leagues, it is apparent from the patch notes that (worse) players are being tweaked to favoured direct/easier options in particular when pushed more likely. Other than that, the only time things would be that direct by default pretty much is usually fielding up a Target Man up top, typically.

That makes sense, I kind of expect that, it doesnt seem they tweaked the AIs players to suit though. My team had 21 mistakes in 45 mins, just kicking anywhere for 45 mins, ignoring sensible options under no pressure. 65% pass completion, the AI has 5 mistakes and 75% pass completion under pressure often. They play well, while my team play likethey have never played football before. I basically need an option to tell them to shoot when they face goal, instead of the option I seem to have it on which is to stand there until the defender robs you.

My players are terrible, but so are the oppositions, they dont look terrible though. They always do the right thing more often than not.

Morale I guess would also be a factor, but again, the AI doesnt seem effected by this either, or match condition and sharpness come to think of it.

I draw most games.

My wingers were constantly crossing the ball as soon as they got it, into an empty box, panic crossing under no pressure, 100s of crosses 0% completed, the only way to fix that seemed to switch them to inside forwards, which doesnt seem like an ideal solution, but it worked, they now perform much better despite not being suited to that role and much preferring to play as wingers. that upped my pass completion up 5%. It doesnt seem to change results, they just play better. I guess thats one part of the secret win code unlocked. Inside forwards not wingers. Just need to do that to the rest of the team, or download this years win tactic.

I agree with previous post that you might be over analyzing. I've done 3 different saves getting 3-4 seasons in each one and have to constantly tweak my tactics to succeed. That said, I'm not poring over stats and stuff, I just go off of what I see in highlights. Usually I'll start a save by building my one main tactic. Once that's fluid I'll add a 2nd one, sometimes even a 3rd.

You just need to find the win formula. I like how people say its your tactics, every single year, when si are constantly changing the ME every other month, one tactic that works one patch doesnt do anything the next patch, they are constantly changing the effect and how stuff works, the game world, what effect pressing this has over selecting that, if its right this year then that means it was wrong every other year, but it was still your tactics to blame. Thats like the number one response. Truth is its never right any year. Its obviously not possible to get right.

You dont play the game, you play the ME. People seem to think that the ME reflects any sort of reality, and making these dots behave how you want them is basically down to some kind of real life football savvy. It isnt. Infact I think the worst thing SI did was introduce a visual ME cos I just dont think its technically possible. Infact I think its best to ignore it. Its just a nasty distraction. Its a graphical representation of how your team could behave, instead of looking at numbers, it plays out set pieces, but its not how they actually play. So using the ME to look for problems isnt the right way to do it. You need to trial and error tactics until one makes you score more than the opposition. Basically. And this year its harder than normal to find the win formula.

Theres a few things that SI introduced, that were probably better left to the imagination because they cant be simulated, but there isnt any going back, but I think the game gets overbloated with features that dont quite work as well as a collective, breaks immersion, and actually makes it less believable than it was a decade ago.

All these extra features they rush to get in the game, just so on the box they can say so many features added this year, that takes 3 more year to not be completely broken, that they give up on while they overbloate it with more added features a few years later, and the core game, the actual core of the game - the most important bit, is weaker now, feels less believable than it did in 2005.

You just need to find the win formula. I like how people say its your tactics, every single year, when si are constantly changing the ME every other month, one tactic that works one patch doesnt do anything the next patch, they are constantly changing the effect and how stuff works, the game world, what effect pressing this has over selecting that, if its right this year then that means it was wrong every other year, but it was still your tactics to blame. Thats like the number one response. Truth is its never right any year. Its obviously not possible to get right.

You dont play the game, you play the ME. People seem to think that the ME reflects any sort of reality, and making these dots behave how you want them is basically down to some kind of real life football savvy. It isnt. Infact I think the worst thing SI did was introduce a visual ME cos I just dont think its technically possible. Infact I think its best to ignore it. Its just a nasty distraction. Its a graphical representation of how your team could behave, instead of looking at numbers, it plays out set pieces, but its not how they actually play. So using the ME to look for problems isnt the right way to do it. You need to trial and error tactics until one makes you score more than the opposition. Basically. And this year its harder than normal to find the win formula.

Theres a few things that SI introduced, that were probably better left to the imagination because they cant be simulated, but there isnt any going back, but I think the game gets overbloated with features that dont quite work as well as a collective, breaks immersion, and actually makes it less believable than it was a decade ago.

All these extra features they rush to get in the game, just so on the box they can say so many features added this year, that takes 3 more year to not be completely broken, that they give up on while they overbloate it with more added features a few years later, and the core game, the actual core of the game - the most important bit, is weaker now, feels less believable than it did in 2005.

This is why the guides follow real world concepts and help you set up balanced tactics - so that you will do well regardless of the game version/ME.

This is why the guides follow real world concepts and help you set up balanced tactics - so that you will do well regardless of the game version/ME.

This plus no AI is given any secret codes or anything. In fact if you look it's highly dynamic and some of the duty combos are all over the place (they change during matches, and AI Guardiola is/used to be pretty suspect off his 4-1-4-1 in particular, probably one of the reasons why his hugely dominating Bayern side managed by his oft struggles to score more than 50 goals a league season by FM 2016 -- come on, any newbie can outperform this taking over Bayern). The stuff in the tactics forums is of a level of holistically tinkering that no AI is capable of, and some of it's setups you won't ever see there, such as five, six players being on defend (HOLD POSITION) duty when it just tries to grind out a lucky draw. It certainly doesn't shy away from wingers because they are typically encouraged to cross. You would pick a winger because of this, whilst an inside forward gets the ball and cuts inside with it, that's it. There's no reason why in and on itself fielding wingers would make you struggle to keep the ball.

Probably reasons for an added struggle to keep the ball, amongst others:

- coming against a (decent) side that visibly pushes up rather than dropping deep; can change during a match how much depending on scoreline

- setting up movement patterns via roles / duties that make it hard to recycle possession, i.e. lack of players staying deep or everybody on attack duty getting ahead of play ASAP

- the above plus coupled with highly aggressive high tempo tactics in general

- being hugely outnumbered in the centre of the pitch

- having a side playing against opposition who will struggle to keep the ball full-stop anyway

It was recently claimed in the tactics forum by someone that he was genuinelly outplayed by his reserves. However I've personally yet to see that happening as the gap in quality is so big they will struggle to keep the ball except for in deep areas maybe, but recycling and keeping the ball deep without going forward is hardly outplaying. There is one somewhat exception and that was early FM 2013, as closing down/pressing was inherently that sedate, both sides upon losing the ball would just retreat, which made matches behave somewhat like handball matches, with each spell of possession for each side ending up in front of the ops goal. Unfortunately, no upload here.

That would be all somewhat "logical" football reasons you could try to adress, and yes there's areas where the game will be always off real football. You might not like some play or role behavior, but that you would need to find a formula and that the AI was given some which would unlock anything is incredibly bad myth and will remain so the way the match engine and play is put up. Also if there is an issue with defending somewhere, no AI is ever given means to "crack" over them. It is given means of increasing and decreasing risk, and some basic football logics, and each managers works off different preferences by the data given to him by research, but no AI tries to "crack" weak holes in the ME. Don't confuse illogical downloads that should be more punished oftenly and make mediocre sides winning the EPL by hitting continue every time with there being secret codes, that's not intentionally. As said, would be interesting to see those pkms, as else it's just hugely guesswork.

Speaking about bad myth:

Infact I think the worst thing SI did was introduce a visual ME cos I just dont think its technically possible. Infact I think its best to ignore it. Its just a nasty distraction. Its a graphical representation of how your team could behave, instead of looking at numbers, it plays out set pieces, but its not how they actually play. So using the ME to look for problems isnt the right way to do it.

The match play isn't cosmetically. The match view follows things second by second, including on and off the ball positioning. It's not arbitrary set pieces or play, it's what's "happening". All the 90 minutes of it. Understanding that makes you also understand how tweaking stuff has an immediate effect on everything. The current issue with defending of wide areas for instance, they could tweak the positioning of full backs defending somewhat, as they tend to sit quite narrow, which helps to contain centrally. However by setting them out more wide, that is "genuinely" space just as in any football video game becoming available centrally. I've recently posted a rant about this "just a representation arbitrarily playing out set pieces not to take serious" myth.

I got beat 3-0 off my reserves, both playing the exact same formation. They didnt even have a full set of players.

The AI in the lower leagues are very impressive, no fouls, no mistakes, tika taka passing. My team play like the stats they have. Hopeless. Barely qualify as footballers.

Ive changed the tactics some more, my defensive cautious tactics while it looked attacking on the ME and dominating, looked defensive on the stats, mainly because I was having no shots at goal, because they just stood there, and passing it anywhere to make it look like I was under the cosh for 90 mins, now I went more attacking and 442, upped the pass completion another 5% and more clear cuts, looks much worse on the ME but better passing, makes me look dominating on the stats but still lots of mistakes to allow me to not win, but it seems I'm getting closer to the win formation.

I got beat 3-0 off my reserves, both playing the exact same formation. They didnt even have a full set of players.

They played the same formation, but that was probably the only similarity. The manager in charge can and will change roles, duties etc if he sees fit.

This plus no AI is given any secret codes or anything. In fact if you look it's highly dynamic and some of the duty combos are all over the place (they change during matches, and AI Guardiola is/used to be pretty suspect off his 4-1-4-1 in particular, probably one of the reasons why his hugely dominating Bayern side managed by his oft struggles to score more than 50 goals a league season by FM 2016 -- come on, any newbie can outperform this taking over Bayern). The stuff in the tactics forums is of a level of holistically tinkering that no AI is capable of, and some of it's setups you won't ever see there, such as five, six players being on defend (HOLD POSITION) duty when it just tries to grind out a lucky draw. It certainly doesn't shy away from wingers because they are typically encouraged to cross. You would pick a winger because of this, whilst an inside forward gets the ball and cuts inside with it, that's it. There's no reason why in and on itself fielding wingers would make you struggle to keep the ball.

Probably reasons for an added struggle to keep the ball, amongst others:

- coming against a (decent) side that visibly pushes up rather than dropping deep; can change during a match how much depending on scoreline

- setting up movement patterns via roles / duties that make it hard to recycle possession, i.e. lack of players staying deep or everybody on attack duty getting ahead of play ASAP

- the above plus coupled with highly aggressive high tempo tactics in general

- being hugely outnumbered in the centre of the pitch

- having a side playing against opposition who will struggle to keep the ball full-stop anyway

It was recently claimed in the tactics forum by someone that he was genuinelly outplayed by his reserves. However I've personally yet to see that happening as the gap in quality is so big they will struggle to keep the ball except for in deep areas maybe, but recycling and keeping the ball deep without going forward is hardly outplaying. There is one somewhat exception and that was early FM 2013, as closing down/pressing was inherently that sedate, both sides upon losing the ball would just retreat, which made matches behave somewhat like handball matches, with each spell of possession for each side ending up in front of the ops goal. Unfortunately, no upload here.

That would be all somewhat "logical" football reasons you could try to adress, and yes there's areas where the game will be always off real football. You might not like some play or role behavior, but that you would need to find a formula and that the AI was given some which would unlock anything is incredibly bad myth and will remain so the way the match engine and play is put up. Also if there is an issue with defending somewhere, no AI is ever given means to "crack" over them. It is given means of increasing and decreasing risk, and some basic football logics, and each managers works off different preferences by the data given to him by research, but no AI tries to "crack" weak holes in the ME. Don't confuse illogical downloads that should be more punished oftenly and make mediocre sides winning the EPL by hitting continue every time with there being secret codes, that's not intentionally. As said, would be interesting to see those pkms, as else it's just hugely guesswork.

Speaking about bad myth:

The match play isn't cosmetically. The match view follows things second by second, including on and off the ball positioning. It's not arbitrary set pieces or play, it's what's "happening". All the 90 minutes of it. Understanding that makes you also understand how tweaking stuff has an immediate effect on everything. The current issue with defending of wide areas for instance, they could tweak the positioning of full backs defending somewhat, as they tend to sit quite narrow, which helps to contain centrally. However by setting them out more wide, that is "genuinely" space just as in any football video game becoming available centrally. I've recently posted a rant about this "just a representation arbitrarily playing out set pieces not to take serious" myth.

Nailed it. Myths like that along a "win formula" or "winning formation" are things that actually cloud getting to grips with the game. It's amazing how prevalent, and yet wrong such thinking is

They played the same formation, but that was probably the only similarity. The manager in charge can and will change roles, duties etc if he sees fit.

I changed them and it had no effect, the guy in charge of my reserves has single figure stats. Maybe if I had picked Man city or Bayern it wouldnt be such a struggle. My worst results come from teams that are so low they dont have real players, The AI in the lower leagues seem pretty powerful,

Ive played this game for years, I always think the best way to learn the game is to start at the bottom and work your way up, keep it simple until you get players capable of playing more advanced, just out physical them and pick up a few better players, the opposition players are a lot less fitter arent special, have nobodys as managers yet I'd be surprised if top teams played any better.

The last few years the key to success has been almost entirely down to team talks for me, one year I was almost relegated, googled team talks and won the league the season after. Some years I went up the leagues playing the same team I started with as players played exactly the same in the position no matter how different or better they were, team talk was all that mattered.

This year I havent googled team talks yet. Also a problem, it seems possible if you look at the stats after the game before you give your team talk it stops you being able to give one, which is the like the lose button.

Another thing, when I started the game without changing anything as I think thats the best way to start, I got hammered, goals from corners, unmarked headers near post, that was the first thing I learned I had to change, it seems to set you up for a fall from the off with the preset tactics, that seems just being cruel.

My worst results come from teams that are so low they dont have real players, The AI in the lower leagues seem pretty powerful,

So there you have something you know you can improve on.

Oh, theres loads to improve on, I can see problems left right and centre, I know what I wanted to do to change, its trying to implement those changes that was the problem.

Its actually got a lot better, stopped watching the ME and just went commentary only cos I think that was the problem, thats not normally how I play this game, Ive never sat through the full games like I have with this one, its took ages playing this way , I normally ignore it, which I think is the best way, the ME isnt a good reflection of whats going on I believe, I was designing my tactics to win the ME battle, when I should be focusing on the stat battle. I scrapped my old tactics and redesigned one that I think would work on paper. The results have turned around completely.

The ME and the stats arent related either it seems, I had a lot more shots on the ME than I had in the stats, some attacks it seems if you have multiple shots it only counts it as one, I think I get why the game does that, its a better representation of how you really played and it doesnt over inflate the stats, its hard to explain what I mean by that, but like having a lot more shots than you tactics should create, it makes you think its working better than it is, also why my strikers didnt shoot when they were 1 on 1, and why the players seemed to make so many simple passes go wrong. Its because thats the way my tactics are, it might look absurd on the ME but thats just the way its chosen to show my tactics dont work. I was ignoring the stats and focusing on the ME which I think was my mistake.

Off topic, whats kind of irritating this year, and I'm scratching my head why it works this way, I dont know if anyone else knows what I'm talking about here, but its the way I always picked my team on this game, by using the position filters to quickly filter out the players, this year you have to keep unclicking it to get it off screen, and then reclicking it every position every time cos it doesnt work while its on screen, it quadrupled the amount of clicks I need to press. Just irritating, especially when you forget to unclick it. Why?

Oh, theres loads to improve on, I can see problems left right and centre, I know what I wanted to do to change, its trying to implement those changes that was the problem.

Its actually got a lot better, stopped watching the ME and just went commentary only cos I think that was the problem, thats not normally how I play this game, Ive never sat through the full games like I have with this one, its took ages playing this way , I normally ignore it, which I think is the best way, the ME isnt a good reflection of whats going on I believe, I was designing my tactics to win the ME battle, when I should be focusing on the stat battle. I scrapped my old tactics and redesigned one that I think would work on paper. The results have turned around completely.

The ME and the stats arent related either it seems, I had a lot more shots on the ME than I had in the stats, some attacks it seems if you have multiple shots it only counts it as one, I think I get why the game does that, its a better representation of how you really played and it doesnt over inflate the stats, its hard to explain what I mean by that, but like having a lot more shots than you tactics should create, it makes you think its working better than it is, also why my strikers didnt shoot when they were 1 on 1, and why the players seemed to make so many simple passes go wrong. Its because thats the way my tactics are, it might look absurd on the ME but thats just the way its chosen to show my tactics dont work. I was ignoring the stats and focusing on the ME which I think was my mistake.

Off topic, whats kind of irritating this year, and I'm scratching my head why it works this way, I dont know if anyone else knows what I'm talking about here, but its the way I always picked my team on this game, by using the position filters to quickly filter out the players, this year you have to keep unclicking it to get it off screen, and then reclicking it every position every time cos it doesnt work while its on screen, it quadrupled the amount of clicks I need to press. Just irritating, especially when you forget to unclick it. Why?

You keep saying it and you are simply WRONG.

First of all, the ME calculates EVERYTHING. It calculates what happens on the pitch and so pushes out the stats for it. The stat screens and the 3d/2d/commentary then represent those calculations.

Stats and the ME do match up. If you do find small issues, then report it. If you see your team playing like crap though, it is because they are. I never, ever look at stats (unless I'm reviewing someone else's tactic) and rely fully on the 3d in front of me to make my decisions. I don't have any issues at all and because I watch so much of matches, I can tell you that it is exactly representative of the tactic you put out there.

Its going alot better now. Had a dramatic turnaround mid season but it was a little too late to push for the playoffs and missed out by 1 point, but the board were very happy finishing above expectations. I promised I'd make the playoffs next season, Then shockingly the board committed financial suicide and decided to spend 2million on a new stadium which will barely be any bigger than the one we barely filled to 30% last season. This seemed like a bit of a spanner in the works to my plans to get promoted as its caused them to drop the wage bill to 80% to 4k, so Ive had to barebones the squad, but this season has started well so far despite that. I think only having 16 players might pose a problem later in the season.

I just hope this hardcoded one rule for all that SI made up that I read about and its 25 years before they can build a new stadium doesnt mean I'm stuck in a 3,000 capacity stadium for 25 years when I could be in the champions league by then, cos I see that being a problem already Unless its capable of being expanded 10 times bigger at least.

It won't help with FMs in general, but in FM 16 you just set up your tactic to spam crosses and off you go. Fullbacks/wingbacks on attack, IFs or WMa in front of them, Control mentality to prevent conceding from crosses and that's it. When squad building, focus on pace and acceleration.

That's all there is to FM 16 if you want to be extremely successful without diving into tactical nuances.

How does Control stop crosses? Because of the higher closing down/d line?

My biggest problem is when teams go more defensive against me after a good run of form I don't know how to beat them.

I was top after 15 games with a team predicted to finish 18th in the Championship. But now i'm on a run of 12 games without a win.

How does Control stop crosses? Because of the higher closing down/d line?

Yes, they can't get to crossing positions when you're that high.

As far as the rest of the thread goes, it had been discussed to death and it's really simple. Understanding of tactics and interest in them have become far more important in recent editions of FM so anyone who's not as interested in that aspect of the game struggles.

CMs and FMs of old allowed much less interest in tactics from users.

I had a great start to the season, but its all fallen to pieces now as it gets to the end. I'm getting hammered by the team talk game and press mind tricks. Still a good season.