20 games

Hi all,

this is my first post here.I have a big problem with fm16.

I've been playing the game since xmas and in all saves happens the same. First 20 games i have good results. Then around the game 20 i start to lose, lose and lose. I tried changing the tactic and still losing and losing.

For instance, playing wit atl. madrid, first 15 games: 12 wins, 1 d, 2 lost. Next 23 games 11 wins, 2 d, 10 lost.

Have you experiencied that?

What am i doing wrong? Why is it happening?

Thanks in advance.

Its your tactics.... jk, that happened to me too on barca save, we did the whole pre season without losing and a couple of first season matches, then we start losing -_-

If you do really well, teams will be quite defensive the next time you meet them so you need to work more to create space.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/327822-Asking-For-Help-PLEASE-READ-THIS

In FM2016 its harder to play against defensive formations.

The key is having a tactic that create space in the final third to that your players can be effective.

Against teams that "dont park the bus" you have more space, and this is what happen in your first part of the season with At. Madrid.

After some games, the opponents start to play more defensive against you (simple because you've done so well untill then), and your problems start.

Add to that, probably your team became more complancent because they were winning so much.

On top of that, probably your tactic have some issues that escalate the above situations.

And to end, and this is my personal thought... The game it's unbalaced wich leave that defensive formation, even with very poor players, can with ease shut down very strong formations.

IRL, and this is my opinion, 9 out of 10 times when a small team plays a big team they go ultra defensive, and end up losing the game. why, because they have bad players that sooner or later make mistakes. In FM, that dont happen so much.

So in FM, a small team can park the bus, and go 90 minutes playing perfect defensive football, without making any mistakes.

At the end of the day, the team with better players, even if playing with bad tactic, win the game. Again, this is my personal opinion.

IRL, even if Luis Henrique went nuts, Barcelona still would win most of their games. Why? Bacause they have better players. In FM... if you play with bad tactics with Barcelona youl'll be crushed even my a formation like Cadiz or Malaga.

This balanced, this importance that the quality of players have, is something that i dont see reflect in FM.

This balanced, this importance that the quality of players have, is something that i dont see reflect in FM.

Out of interest, have you tried to put that to the test? Because previously, just no.

Part of the reason why defending deep was actually fairly hard. It was improved some for FM 2016, but similarily, there's a reason why say Bayern who average more than 20 shots each week score no more than 2.5 goals, and ship 5 past Dortmund or Wob, whilst oft struggle to replicate the same against Augsburg, Mainz or even Darmstadt. The AI at its most rigid has even both wide defenders on defend duty, which means there's barely anyone moving forward out of position, which means upon intercepting your team has to play around lots of players visibly from any elevated cam view, which means you're thus not gifted space. With that it was all the more remarkable how Messi FM 2015 by his dribbling skills alone would just coast past 5, 6 players who just stayed back and caused MASSIVELY trouble without any support whatsoever. With Barcelona you can do all kinds of stuff. Player quality will make up for loads. If somebody is without passing options he will simply dribble and open space and opportunity, or take a quality shot. Wouldn't be the worst if this was nerfed.

If you want to test how much that influences things, download the official db editor. Chose a league, filter persons by managers, hold shift so you can mark multiple managers and edit them all to have: every favoured formation attack defense 4-3-3 narrow and give them an attack bias of 20. Did this any in-game Bayern won with really huge margins regularly, scoring more than 100 goals even managed by the AI. My opinion is thus: whilst the majority of the time, yes the much better side wins. Still if sides are gifted space, even the worst of forwards will find it easy to score. Conversely the best ones will find it a struggle, see Bayern this season in their season opener against HSV where they didn't anything going until a set-piece close to HT, which was aided by them playing very very static (which Guardiola changed some 2nd half, so that there was some actually movement). Or their match against Bochum, a 2. Bundesliga side where despite playing Lewandowski et all didn't even get a SHOT going until 40 minutes in, and conversely faced two situations where they almost conceded from a counter. However on FM AI teams are very readily very rigidly defensive. Still previously in particular this would have been borderline impossible, and arguably still is. From Opta we also know that in 70% of all matches where teams dominate "statistically", and that is the actually shot count rather than the useless possession stats, that win doesn't come.

edit: Excuses if this came off a bit grumpy, but defending on the last iterations deserved some additional loving by the coders, conversely to attacking. And looking at the many supposedly "super tactics" called Sirgoalot and similar going around who increasingly and alarmingly don't even have a single holding /hold position player anymore, instead pushing everybody up all season every match minute 1-90, successfully overloading almost everyone by playing essentially how school kids play football (me want to get forward too to shoot!), it seems it hasn't gotten enough yet.

In FM2016 its harder to play against defensive formations.

The key is having a tactic that create space in the final third to that your players can be effective.

Against teams that "dont park the bus" you have more space, and this is what happen in your first part of the season with At. Madrid.

After some games, the opponents start to play more defensive against you (simple because you've done so well untill then), and your problems start.

Add to that, probably your team became more complancent because they were winning so much.

On top of that, probably your tactic have some issues that escalate the above situations.

And to end, and this is my personal thought... The game it's unbalaced wich leave that defensive formation, even with very poor players, can with ease shut down very strong formations.

IRL, and this is my opinion, 9 out of 10 times when a small team plays a big team they go ultra defensive, and end up losing the game. why, because they have bad players that sooner or later make mistakes. In FM, that dont happen so much.

So in FM, a small team can park the bus, and go 90 minutes playing perfect defensive football, without making any mistakes.

At the end of the day, the team with better players, even if playing with bad tactic, win the game. Again, this is my personal opinion.

IRL, even if Luis Henrique went nuts, Barcelona still would win most of their games. Why? Bacause they have better players. In FM... if you play with bad tactics with Barcelona youl'll be crushed even my a formation like Cadiz or Malaga.

This balanced, this importance that the quality of players have, is something that i dont see reflect in FM.

It's funny that you use Malaga as an example when Barcelona have drawn 0-0, lost 1-0 and scraped a 2-1 win in one of their toughest matches of season to them recently. Malaga played perfect defensive football against them in all three games. But apparently that only happens in FM

@Svenc & S1111

I was careful to say that it was my personal opinion. I don't think it's fair to the OP getting into a discution about this in the thread.

But, i have to say that both of you are picking in isolated examples, that happen irl, to "justify" what happens in FM.

It's all true what you said, that Barcelona had a troubles to beat Malaga this year, that Bayern crushed 5-0 Dortumund and had troubles against minor teams.

But it's also true that they ended winning the game, by 1-0 or 2-1 or 2-0, but they win. And they win 8 from 10 games.

And i don't see this happens in FM.

In FM, and again i'm talking about my personal experience, i see, top teams loosing much more points during the season, i see teams that not in 30 years would win the CL, winning 2 or 3 times in 10 years (and i'm talking about portuguese teams and others from the same level).

And this happens, well, imho, because tactics are overrated in FM and the quality of players are underrated.

My biggest without losing is 41 games with Dynamo Berlin. and there is still lot of games playing.

Hi all,

thanks for your replies, but no, this is not what's happening.

I'm still scoring the same. The problem is that i start losing every match: first 15 mins 1 or 2 down. Then sometimes i manage to draw even to win.

It's not an attacking problem, its clearly a defensive problem.

I conceed a lot of chances and alot of goals. Attacking is more or less the same than before the armaggedon: 2-3ccc 5-6 hc around 15-20 shots on goal.

I change the tactic and still the same. Even opposite tactics (from direct and counter to control and possession), and the same happens. I tried 4 different tactics and nothing changes.

The save i'm playing now my last 10 games 1 w 1d 8 lost. 23 scored 25 conceeded.

My first 19 games: 16 2 1. 34 scored 13 conceeded.

What do you think i should do?

Start with the link I posted. We cannot guess what's going on.

Thread title's:

20 games. In every save, happens the same. I start playing quite well, scoring a lot and not conceeding much. Last save i tried: first 19 games, 14 w, 5 d. Next 19, 8 w, 3 d, 8 l, conceeding more and scoring the same.

Everything works well during the first 20 games. Depending on the game, opponent, situation, etc.. i use 1 of these 2 tactics.

Problem(s) –

As i said, after 20 games (more or less) i start losing like crazy. In almost every game, first 20 mins i'm already losing 1 or 2-0. I try with different tactics and tweaking them but it is the same. The best i managed is, in my second season, i dropped my bwm and dlp to dmc an then i won 8 games in a row, but after that again losing and losing.

When i say losing and losing i mean, for instance, 0-4 against empoli with 25 shots on goal, 4 ccc and 5 hc for them. As I said, Last save i tried: first 19 games, 14 w, 5 d. Next 19, 8 w, 3 d, 8 l, conceeding more and scoring the same.

This is what consistently happens, so there is something i'm doing wrong.

Shape/formation –

I have 2 differen tactics:

4-0-2-3-1

Gk-de

fb-su cd-de cd-de fb-at

bwm-su dlp-de

w-at ss-at w-su

dlf-su

TIs: Counter, tight marking, get stuck in, clear ball to flanks, more direct passing.

OIs: Tight marking always, closing down always, tackle hard and show onto weaker foot, to the following positions: dr,dl,wbr,wbl,mr,ml,amr,aml, stc, stcl, sctr.

PIs:

Dr, dl, amr, aml: tackle harder, mark tighter.

Cd-de: tackle harder, mark tighter, close down more

Bwm: shoot more often

Dlf: hold position.

The idea of this tactic is quite simple: quick transitions, send the ball to my wings, and crosses. It works quite well, i score a lot from crosses and conceed not much. I get some red cards, but i'm ok with as long as i'm telling my players to tackle hard.

I've been working in this tactic for 3 months until it worked, or, at least, seemed to work. Before that, i was consistently sacked after 10 games.

OIs and PIs of my wide players are the way i found to stop conceeding from crosses. It works during the first 20 games.

PIs of my cd-de. This is to avoid shots long shots and reduce the space between cd-de and midfield.

The other tactic:

4-1-2-2-1

Gk-de

fb-at cd-de cd-de fb-at

hb-de

bbm-su apm-s

if-su if-su

f9-su

TIs: control, lower tempo, close down much more, play out the defence, retain possession, roam from positions.

OIs: the same than the other tactic.

Pis: none.

The idea here is possession. We have 5 players in the middle and my two fb and the flanks. Move the ball and find spaces. It works during the first 20 games: high possession, scoring less than using the other tactic but also conceeding less. I also use this tactic changing the mentality to counter and my fb-at to fb-su to protect a lead. I increase my possession and create less chances, but is is ok, as long as i only want to protect the lead.

The team and level you are playing –

I play with milan.

Expectations –

I expect to end 2 or 3. I do it but only because in the first 20 games i get a lot of points. When the season is ending it is only about praying for roma, inter, tec..to lose because my results are awful.

If the results were the opposite (starting bad and then improving) i would be ok for me.

Screenshots, Pkm's and Saved Games –

Tell me if you need.

Details –

Tell me if you need.

Thank you very much for nothing.

Could anybody be so nice to help me, please?

If your team is playing more or less the same but suddenly not producing, do you think it could be a morale or squad management issue? While the tactical aspects are tantalizingly important, don't forget that managing your squads morale and form can make a real difference. The missed ccc, thunderbolt of a long range shot to win a match, or in your case missed tackle when closing down your opposition heavily can make a big difference in terms of winning or losing runs. Sometimes, it's not only your roles and mentality especially, but rather things like team talks, rotation, and the all around "mood" of your team.

I would suggest riding out the slumps and having the confidence in your tactic to ride through the tough patches. Remember that there is no conspiracy against you, and chances are what has worked for those 20 games did not become null and void overnight. The days of unbeatable tactics are gone, and part of your challenge is finding ways to get the most out of your team long term.

It's often tempting to start making changes to and doubting your system as a whole when things go wrong. Approach it with a clear head and try to understand where things can be improved - more often than not it's a small change that can make a huge difference

Thanks for your answers.

No, it is not an morale problem. Morale is ok, of course until i lose 5 games in a row, but the problem started before the morale lowered.

I use almost all my players. I don't want them complaining.

No, this is not the problem.

I've tried a lot of things. Tweaking the tactic, changing it absolutely, changing players,... and nothing. Without any explanation I start conceeding like crazy.

Crosses and corners are devastating. My cb are good at heading and jumping. Own goals almost every match. Stupid passes almost every match. Gk ratings get dramatically worse (under 6.5).

I started like 30 saves and always, in every one of them, happens the same. Around xmas everything goes down the drain.

Depending on the game, opponent, situation, etc.. i use 1 of these 2 tactics.

So when do you use which tactic?

Problem(s) –

As i said, after 20 games (more or less) i start losing like crazy. In almost every game, first 20 mins i'm already losing 1 or 2-0. I try with different tactics and tweaking them but it is the same. The best i managed is, in my second season, i dropped my bwm and dlp to dmc an then i won 8 games in a row, but after that again losing and losing.

When i say losing and losing i mean, for instance, 0-4 against empoli with 25 shots on goal, 4 ccc and 5 hc for them. As I said, Last save i tried: first 19 games, 14 w, 5 d. Next 19, 8 w, 3 d, 8 l, conceeding more and scoring the same.

This is what consistently happens, so there is something i'm doing wrong.

Shape/formation –

I have 2 differen tactics:

4-0-2-3-1

Gk-de

fb-su cd-de cd-de fb-at

bwm-su dlp-de

w-at ss-at w-su

dlf-su

TIs: Counter, tight marking, get stuck in, clear ball to flanks, more direct passing.

OIs: Tight marking always, closing down always, tackle hard and show onto weaker foot, to the following positions: dr,dl,wbr,wbl,mr,ml,amr,aml, stc, stcl, sctr.

PIs:

Dr, dl, amr, aml: tackle harder, mark tighter.

Cd-de: tackle harder, mark tighter, close down more

Bwm: shoot more often

Dlf: hold position.

The idea of this tactic is quite simple: quick transitions, send the ball to my wings, and crosses. It works quite well, i score a lot from crosses and conceed not much. I get some red cards, but i'm ok with as long as i'm telling my players to tackle hard.

I've been working in this tactic for 3 months until it worked, or, at least, seemed to work. Before that, i was consistently sacked after 10 games.

OIs and PIs of my wide players are the way i found to stop conceeding from crosses. It works during the first 20 games.

PIs of my cd-de. This is to avoid shots long shots and reduce the space between cd-de and midfield.

The tactic is obviously direct and so relies on there being space available for you to charge into. If you did that well in the beginning (19 matches unbeaten), team will be much more careful when you face them again. They will not commit too many players forward and so there will not be that much space to be so direct.

It's worth noting a few things that you may or may not be aware of:

- Counter Mentality already has fairly direct passing at the back (to ease pressure) with fairly short passing up front to keep the ball away from the danger area and keep possession.

- With that in mind, you have increased directness with More Direct Passing

- In addition to that, you've gone to an extreme end of the scale, by asking the defensive players to have the maximum possible directness and to focus toward clearing it to the flanks - plural - where you only really have 1 flank player possibly available to receive a clearance. This TI will definitely be a big reason for the poor performances.

- Keep PPMs in mind. You're keeping the DLP/D and FB/S back to help the defence and cover against counters, but if that FB/S has a PPM that'll see him get forward often, you may be quite open in transition yourself.

The other tactic:

4-1-2-2-1

Gk-de

fb-at cd-de cd-de fb-at

hb-de

bbm-su apm-s

if-su if-su

f9-su

TIs: control, lower tempo, close down much more, play out the defence, retain possession, roam from positions.

OIs: the same than the other tactic.

Pis: none.

The idea here is possession. We have 5 players in the middle and my two fb and the flanks. Move the ball and find spaces. It works during the first 20 games: high possession, scoring less than using the other tactic but also conceeding less. I also use this tactic changing the mentality to counter and my fb-at to fb-su to protect a lead. I increase my possession and create less chances, but is is ok, as long as i only want to protect the lead.

The idea may be possession, but again you have similar issues.

The double FB/A roles you have will not be very possession focused. Their job is to bomb forward and cross ASAP.

Then, in possession, you're dropping the HB between the defenders, but then there's a bit of a gap between them and the BBM and AP, both (BBM especially) quite adventurous roles who will get forward. You're essentially taking away a passing option here.

A lot will depend on the passing options the players have here, especially considering that you're taking away options of passes into space. Do you find the players bunching up in the middle? Do you also find that maybe the IFs are a bit too far forward, and marked out of receiving a pass to feet?

You're going to have 2 clear passing options almost every time - the FBs. From there it will just be swinging it into the box, where it'll be so early that I can't imagine you have many targets to aim for?

Thank you very much for your answer.

Focusing on my direct 4231:

- First of all, maybe my tactic is not perfect, but why it works for 20 games and then start losing?

- You say "The tactic is obviously direct and so relies on there being space available for you to charge into". I thought the best way to attack against packed defense is direct passing. If i'm wrong, then i can say i understand nothing.

- "Counter Mentality already has fairly direct passing at the back (to ease pressure) with fairly short passing up front to keep the ball away from the danger area and keep possession." Yes I know. I just want to send the ball to the flanks asap and then cross, so i'm ok with that.

- "With that in mind, you have increased directness with More Direct Passing". Yes, otherwise my players start short passing because of the counter mentality. I must say i didn't choose counter mentality: it is just that counter is the only mentality that works for me using this tactic.

- "- In addition to that, you've gone to an extreme end of the scale, by asking the defensive players to have the maximum possible directness and to focus toward clearing it to the flanks - plural - where you only really have 1 flank player possibly available to receive a clearance. This TI will definitely be a big reason for the poor performances." 1 flank player? Why? I have two wingers. What i see is my w-at (whoever plays there) is more a scorer than my w-s, but both are crossing more or less the same.

- Keep PPMs in mind. You're keeping the DLP/D and FB/S back to help the defence and cover against counters, but if that FB/S has a PPM that'll see him get forward often, you may be quite open in transition yourself. Yes, i fully agree. That's why i pay attention to pppm of my fb. If he has this ppm i change him or i set hold position PI. Anyway, i don't need to do that during the first 20 games, and after that games, it's totally useless if i change my fb or i set that pi.

- First of all, maybe my tactic is not perfect, but why it works for 20 games and then start losing?

You're very, very direct. You're getting the ball forward so fast, that you're basically attacking with 2 or 3 players against 6-9 players. That's never going to work.

- You say "The tactic is obviously direct and so relies on there being space available for you to charge into". I thought the best way to attack against packed defense is direct passing. If i'm wrong, then i can say i understand nothing.

There's a difference between being direct and being as extreme as what you are.

Let me ask this, why do you say direct passing is the best way to play against a packed defence? The defence is packed, so how does direct passing get through that?

- "Counter Mentality already has fairly direct passing at the back (to ease pressure) with fairly short passing up front to keep the ball away from the danger area and keep possession." Yes I know. I just want to send the ball to the flanks asap and then cross, so i'm ok with that.

As said, you're going to send it to 1 flank.

Who are you crossing to?

- "With that in mind, you have increased directness with More Direct Passing". Yes, otherwise my players start short passing because of the counter mentality. I must say i didn't choose counter mentality: it is just that counter is the only mentality that works for me using this tactic.

That doesn't make too much sense. So you just randomly selected a Mentality until something worked?

- "- In addition to that, you've gone to an extreme end of the scale, by asking the defensive players to have the maximum possible directness and to focus toward clearing it to the flanks - plural - where you only really have 1 flank player possibly available to receive a clearance. This TI will definitely be a big reason for the poor performances." 1 flank player? Why? I have two wingers. What i see is my w-at (whoever plays there) is more a scorer than my w-s, but both are crossing more or less the same.

They're not?

For a start, the Winger/Support will drop deeper than the Winger/Attack and won't get forward as quickly, so he just won't be in position to receive these clearances.

A winger's job is to stay wide and cross, so that's what they will focus on doing most of all.

I've said this at least twice - your tactic is unbelievably direct. Teams will start sitting back more against a very successful team, so when you meet them again, you might have issues.

You're very, very direct. You're getting the ball forward so fast, that you're basically attacking with 2 or 3 players against 6-9 players. That's never going to work.

There's a difference between being direct and being as extreme as what you are.

Let me ask this, why do you say direct passing is the best way to play against a packed defence? The defence is packed, so how does direct passing get through that?

As said, you're going to send it to 1 flank.

Who are you crossing to?

That doesn't make too much sense. So you just randomly selected a Mentality until something worked?

They're not?

For a start, the Winger/Support will drop deeper than the Winger/Attack and won't get forward as quickly, so he just won't be in position to receive these clearances.

A winger's job is to stay wide and cross, so that's what they will focus on doing most of all.

Are you Jee from Fm-Base, by any chance?

I think direct passing is better against a packed defense because if you move the ball fast they don't have time to get packed. If they are packed anyway, counter mentality should help because has more short passing in the final third.

In my experiencie I don't have problems against a packed defense. In fact, in the first 20 games i totally destroy them and I thought (maybe wrong) that was because of my (extreme) direct passing style.

In home games, the opponent plays with a packed defense from the first game and i beat them easily. Away games are more difficult from the first moment.

That's weird. The more attacking are the opponents the worse results i get.

After the first 20 games, i still don't have problems against a packed defense. I score more or less the same, the problem is that I start conceeding like crazy. Maybe we can say i have problems with counters, but not creating chances.

About wingers and crosses. What i see is my w-su acts like a creator, I mean he receives the ball and crosses more often than the w-at who is more a scorer. It seems to me that w-su receives more clearances than w-at.

I'm crossing to my dlf and ss. They are in the right place in the right moment. My wingers also come narrow to finish. My bwm-su i also near.

I selected counter mentality becasue its the safest "normal" mentality. When i start losing i change a lot of things, and also tried changing mentality (if you are lost, you try anything) and that's why i know counter is the best mentality for this tactic.

In simple terms, the opposition will become even more defensive (and more teams will be defensive against you) and so you will get drawn in more. Mentality aside, you are set up to be very attacking. I can only see you getting countered all day.

Well, I said 3 times i don't have problems against defensive teams, but if someone is wrong here is me. So let's change.

If i'm being countered all day, the best way to avoid it is.... not attacking. I'm not going to attack. If the opponent attacks i will counter. If the opponent doesn't attack then the match will end 0-0 (not always, i know) because nobody is going to attack.

At this point, i'll asume that attacking is the same than possession; if i don't have the possession, if i don't attack, then i can't lose possession and the opponent can't counter me.

I experienced that trying to retain possession without creating chances results on counters against. Maybe it works for the last 10 minutes, but i'm pretty sure i can't do it for 90 minutes.

So, attacking means possession.

I know it is not possible to score all goals from counters, so we'll need a second plan. This second plan will be very simple. Just send long balls to the flanks and cross. If it works, nice. If it doesn't i just want to be sure that they don't counter me. That suits perfectly with my second plan because if it doesn't work i will lose the ball quickly (attacking=possession).

I also know that my tactic and instructions are how my team will play when a counter is not triggered.

What i will explain is also my interpetration of the art of counterattacking.

First question, is that general conclusion ok?

So the first objective is not attacking at all. I don't want the ball. First i have to say is i have no clear idea how to do it. I say that because the more defensive mentality i use the more possession i have; in other words, the more conservative, the more time i am attacking (attacking=possession).

Anyway, i think i must use a defensive mentality, and i choose counter, because it is the most "attacking" (and here attacking means the opposite of possesion, here means direct passing) conservative mentality, so i will play defensive but with less possession that contain and defensive.

Do you understand what i'm trying to explain? If you don't, tell me, please, i know my english is not the best.

Also counter mentality is the one that is supposed to suit better with a counterattacking tactic, so it is clear. I set counter mentality.

Second question, is that conclusion ok?

Next step: team shape. I read that, in general terms, fluid means less space and more freedom, and structured means more space and less freedom. What i exactly want is no space and no freedom, but that is impossible. So i will just set flexible.

Third question, is that conclusion ok?

Formation

gk-de. Not much to say.

lfb-de. I want him to focus on defense.

cd-de. Not much to say.

bpd-de. Important role. I want him to start my counters. I will set more risky passing PI.

lfb-de. I want him to focus on defense.

w-at. As i said before, if i'm not countering we'll send long balls to the flanks so we need wingers to cross.

cm-de. I want a strong midfield.

dlp-su. I want a strong midfield, so i set 2 holders. Dlp will also the starter (along with bpd) of my counters/long balls to wingers. I will set more risky passing PI.

w-at. Already explained.

df-de. I want one of my strikers involved in defense, so this is the best role. Also i noted that df drops deep so he'll be able to link with my dlp who is a holder and won't make forward runs. I'm considering to set my df-de manmarking an opponent midfielder, specially if they outnumber me there.

poacher. I know a poacher can end up isolated, so i'm very open to change this role. Anyway, i think poacher is a good option because he will be inside the box to finish crosses. This is what i expect from him: focus on finishing and anyhting else, so if he gets uninvolved is not a problem.

Other instructions.

I set TI get stuck in because i want my players to be very aggresive. I mean, if an opponent dribbles one of my players, just make a foul immediately.

Along with that, i set PI tackle harder to all my players.

As long as i want long and direct passing to the flanks, i set TI clear ball to flanks.

I see bpd has more risky passes by default so i set this Pi only to me dlp-su.

I see cm-de has close down more by default. I'm afraid of him losing position, so i set close down much less PI.

Finally, i don't want my poacher to be too static so i set PI move into channels PI.

Last question, is that conclusion ok?

Do you see big mistakes in what i set? I mean, before playing a game, can you identify contradictions or something that is clearly wrong? Is all that i said reasonable? Is there anything specially wrong? Would you change anything for sure because it is a clear mistake?

I've played some games and results were absolutely awful.

1. I'm not triggering any counter. Sometimes we have the chance to, but my players choose wrong passing options o pass the ball to the opponent.

2. Actually, the one who is being countered is me because i still have the possession.

3. I have too much possession (50-60%). My players start short passing stupidly, going nowhere. This only produces losing the ball far from my box, so my 2 cb who are tall and slow have acres of space behind them.

4. My df-de is acting like a creator. The reason of this is the short passing style we are playing. When we are attacking, he comes deep to get the ball trying to create something. This is just the opposite of what i wanted. What i want i send the ball to the flanks and cross. The poacher is inside the box. If we don't score it is not a problem. The problem is having the possession.

5. Not enough fauls. If we can't stop a player FAUL, immediately.

6. Wide opponent's players have a lot of space. That's not a big problem because the only thing they can do is to cross and i'm so packed with 2 lines of 4 that i'm dramatically outnumbering them inside the box so i can clear easily. Also, my two cd-de are good at jumping and heading. To sum up, their crosses are not effective.

7. Most of the goals i conceed come from the middle. Pattern is: one striker receives the ball surrounded by my 2 cd and cm (4 against 1), turns around (!!!) and passes the ball between my two cd-de or 1 cd and fb.

8. My defense is not bad. When we are packed, most of the time the opponent tries to cross and we defend well the cross. They don't have space to attack.

9. I'm not crossing at all. My wingers are too narrow, so when they receive the ball can't cross (they don't have space).

10. I'm not clearing ball to flanks. That's obviusly because my wingers are narrow and deep so there is nobody to receive clearances.

Well, these are the problems. Solutions:

1. How i expect my team to counterattack? I need to play in my own half, so this means using a shape that allows me to have numbers in my own half. I have two lines of 4 packed, so when i win the ball back i have players well placed for counter attacks. Then what should happen is the following.

a) win the ball back

b) Pass to dlp or bpd.

c) Wingers bomb forward.

At this moment, dlp should have at least 4 options of passing: wingers and strikers. To trigger a counter should be "easy".

2,3, 4, 9 and 10. I'll quit the clear ball to flanks TI. It is producing no effect. As long as i want to "lose" the ball quickly, i'll set go route one. I want crosses so i will set exploit left and right flank. What i expect here is quickly send the ball to one flank and cross. Here i could also set hit early crosses TI, but i think it is not needed, because i already selected go route one and my wingers have by default cross more often PI.

5. I don't know what else i can do about that.

6. As long as i'm not conceeding from crosses, i won't change anything.

7. I'll set close down more PI to Cd-de. I think they are going to close down more strikers so they shouldn't be able to turn around. I also will reduce the space (already very little) between cm and cd.

Am i going in the right direction?

Well i can answer it on my own.

No, i'm not in the right direction.

1. Still have too much possession. We win the ball back to fast.

2. We are losing the shape more than before changes.

3. DF-de closes down too much and still acting like a creator.

4. The one who is countered is me.

5. We are too high, so cd-de have a lot of space behind.

6. We are not attacking down the flanks.

7. Problems defending set pieces. The opponent most of the times manages to head.

Solutions.

I realized that what i want is a mix of two mentalities: when defending, counter, when attacking, control. Counter helps to retain the shape and control means rushing forward when attacking. So i'll set standard mentality. But, that's important, i don't want standard mentality, i want counter when defending an control when attacking, so i'll have to tweak the standart mentality to get what i want.

Counter has deeper d-line and close down less when defending and control has more agressive passing style, so i set, from standard mentality: d-line slightly deeper, close down much less, pass into space, more direct passing.

Let's see what happens.

I already know what happens. Absolut disaster.

Anything I try is even worse than before. I really need some help.

I wonder why i'm not receiving any feedback? Am I doing anything wrong?

Am i being ignored? Did I anything wrong?

Last 77 games i played: 1 w, 3 d, 73 lost.

Without some advice and help i just can't play fm. I'm only losing and i don't know what to do.

Hi Looping, no you aren't doing anything wrong, and as far as I can see, you've at least been able to identify what the problems are. Since you keep getting whooped, here is suggestion: just set up your formation and roles, put your mentality on standard, and leave everything default. No TI, no PI. We need to start from scratch here. Observe what you see. Pay attention to how your roles are performing. It won't take that long, and we can establish a baseline to begin making changes.

OK.

Everything default

Formation: 442

gk

fb-su cd-de cd-de fb-su

w-at cm-de dlp-su w-at

p-a tm-su

Not rocket science. I think there is nothing wrong in this roles and duties.

I looked for a team which had players suitable to that roles. I choosed Eibar, from Liga BBVA.

First game I played, friendly, against standard liege.

- I lost 0-1. It was clearly a 0-0 game, until my right fb decided, in an amazing performance, to score an own goal.

- It's obvious my players are not used to the tactic. They are making mistakes, especially passing and lack of positioning.

- There is a big space between cd-de and midfielders, specially in transition. My two central midfielders are closing down too much, this creates gaps and losing shape.

- My set pieces defending is awful. Almost every corner is a chance.

- They are countering me after corners. I cross, they clear and there is nobody back. This is easy to fix, so not a big problem now.

- I'm attacking down the flanks, but only down the flanks (unidimensional and uneffective). 32 crosses 4 completed.

- I can't post screenshots so i'll try to explain something that happens quite often.

fb w

cd

cd

fb

Do you see the space between my fb and my w? Well, the opponent sends a pass to that space. Then, from behind my w, appears their wide player. My w then has nothing to do and my fb tries to catch the ball but he doesn't get to. As a consequence, their winger is now all alone to cross.

Second game. Friendly against Boca.

I set my two cd-de close down more.

Cm-de close down much less. He has as a default PI close down more, so i need close down much less if i want him to close down less. Is that right?

dlp-su. Close down less.

As long as we are only attacking down the flanks, i set Pi to my tm-su, hold position in order to: a) stay inside the box to finish crosses B) come deep to get the ball from my dlp-su (linking).

Changed my attacking set pieces positioning addding another player staying back.

- I lost 3-4.

- I'm not attacking. Just staying packed back. Not triggering counters. I don't know how i managed to score 3. 4 shots 3 goals. 2 ccc and 2 hc. Less chances but more quality chances?

- When i have the ball an we are attacking down 1 flank, the other side winger is all alone, but my players don't see him, don't pass the ball to him o, when they do, they start short passing so when the ball arrives to the winger, he is no longer alone. More direct passing?

- They are playing with a lone wide mane (wb-at i think, or something similar). The only thing they do is move the ball, send it to one of their wb and cross. They have no space in the middle, it is very crowded. Despite they are playing quite unidimensional, they scored 3 goals from crosses (all from Tevez, quite understandable?)

- They scored another goal from a corner kick. We are not defending well set pieces.

- Tm is coming deep and more involved in creation. In fact, i scored 1 goal from a cross (1/13 crosses completed) and two goals after a one-two between my strikers. So, we are doing something diferent, but we are now not exploting flanks enough.

- fb-su w-at space between when defending issue explained above is still happening.

- space between cd-de and midfielders, fixed.

- Attacking down the flanks still uneffective. Although i scored 1 goal from a cross, it was the only cross completed.

- Counter after attacking set piece, fixed.

Third game. Friendly, against Wigan, away.

I set more direct passing, and whipped crosses.

- I lost 5-2

- They scored 5 but didn't deserve. Only 1 ccc and 1 hc.

- First goal, an own goal from my right fb. In fact, was exactly the same: cross and he scores. Very nice.

- We are missing easy passes

- Their wide players have time and space to cross.

- I outnumber them inside my box (2 against 5 most of the time the cross)

- fb-su w-at space between when defending issue explained above is still happening.

- 2-0 corner kick. Awful set pieces defending. It's weird because my cd are tall and good at jumping an heading.

- When attacking, we move the ball but there is no space and no movement. Everybody stays in her place waiting for the ball. When we cross, their clear, and that's even very hard because when we try to cross my player has to guys closing down him.

- 3-0. Cross. They have some time and space to cross (no always happening, even when they are marked manage to send a dangerous cross). I outnumber them inside the box (this time dramatically 4 against 1). My cd are are tall and good at jumping an heading. But they score.

- Don't see the effect of direct passing. Still the same. Why don't send the ball quickly and direct to one flank and, if it is covered, to the other where my other winger is free?

- 3-1 Good one-two between my dlp and p. Finally, something different, some intelligent movement.

- 3-2 Cross after a counter. Good.

- 4-2 and 5-2 goals from crosses.

Well, at this point i can say, in general for all 3 games:

- I have huge problems defending crosses.

- I have huge problems defending set pieces, specially corners.

- It shouldn't happen, because i outnumber them inside the box, and my players, specially cd, are good at heading and jumping.

- It's true they have space to cross, despite when they don't have space and time they even manage to send dangerous crosses.

- Passsing between fb and w is killing me.

- Attacking is not good. Neither bad. We manage to create some chances. Even, sometimes, movement (one-twos). Crosses are uneffective. Maybe my strikers are not good enough at heading and jumping (13-14 12-13), so i could change to low crosses. 5 goals in 3 games is not bad. Here the problem is that i conceeded 10 in 3.

- When attacking we have no space. No space to cross, no space to finish, no space to exploit. Nothing.

- Should i give more time to my players to learn the tactic?

- It comes to my mind, changin tm-su to dlf-su. I've read a dlf acts very similar to a tm-su, but with less direct passing. My tm-su is 13-14 at heading jumping, but he hasn't technical skills, vision...

Hi Looping, thanks for taking the time to write this up. I have a few ideas for you based on what you've written.

First, your setup. A couple things stand out to me as possibly problematic. You have Wingers on attack and FBs on support. This is not 100% but it will create distance between them, and that might account for some of your passing problems as well as defensive. An attacking winger is going to head to the byline, while your support fullback is going to get get into the final third, but not go very deep. You can try a couple things: put one fullback on attack and the winger in front of him on support. You can also try a wide midfielder role, which is more defensively responsible. Second, on your setup, both of your CMs are sitting pretty deep. You have four men attacking up front, three are going very deep in opposing third, while the TM is still playing high up on the pitch. I think you can see the problem here. There is gobs of space in front of you and on both flanks. Try your DLP as a CM(S) and see if that helps. If you absolutely want a DLP, then make him the defend duty and have a CM(S) as you need someone linking up with the attack. You also need better passing options that simply down the flanks. Varying up your attack will create more open players close enough to receive passes.

1) Defending crosses is generally tougher in this version than before.

2) Defending corners can be handled with a simple setup. What I use is: FBs mark each post, CBs mark tall player, the rest mark 6 yard box, and I have usually have 2 stay forward, and 1 on edge of area. I rarely concede corners. Keep in mind, in addition to good jumping and heading, they need strength and positioning also, so check those stats. They need to know where to go, and be able to hold their ground when they get there.

3) They will get crosses in sometimes no matter what you do. You need someone closing down their wide men as soon as they get the ball. Tight man marking wingers can help, as well fullbacks that close down

4) See above for the passing with FB and W

5) Attacking is okay, so that is a plus but . . .

6) No space is likely due to the setup. As I mentioned above, you have four men playing high up on the pitch and no support for them in the middle.

7) Yes, it does take time. Rashidi always recommends that if you are testing out a new tactic, play it a few times on FM Touch. There is no tactical familiarity at work there, so will be able to eliminate that as a reason for bad play. You might try it with this and see if anything is different.

8) The TM will attract the ball, even when there are better passing options- the tendency is to lump it up to him whenever possible. With a DLF, the ball won't be sent right at him like it does with the TM. It might also give you better link play with the midfield- I would change it and see if it improves things.

I will say that I admire your sticking with this. 73 losses! But you *will* get the hang of this. Start with some of the changes I've suggested in your setup, and run it on FMTouch if you can and see how it goes.

Playing in fmt, now we have:

gk-de

fb-su cd-de cd-de fb-at

w-at cm-de cm-su w-su

p-at dlf-su

TI: more direct passing.

PI: fb and w, closed down more, tight markin and cross the far post. I've been reading and it seems that this crossing setup is more effective. I'll try.

cd-de close down more.

cm-de close down much less, cm-su close down less

dlf-su hold position

To defend corners, your setup.

OIs: where are ois in fmtouch?

Well, i have to say that i don't like removing my dlp. In my mind, central midfielders must be destroyer+creator. I suppose cm-su can act as a creator as well, despite he will not attract the ball.

I don't like fb-at and w-su. Doesn't make sense for me. I mean, fb are there to help (support duty) the attacking (attack duty) winger. I would never have changed that.

Before playing, what i expect is my wide men closing down more, and my cm trying to keep the shape. I expect some problems in front of my box. Let's see.

First game:

Friendly, against Gelsenkirchen, away,

- I lost 3-2

- Result doesn't show what happened on the pitch. I deserved to lose like 7-0. They had 5 ccc, 6 hf and 30 shots, 12 on goal.

- Suffering a lot with through balls. Remove close down more to my cd?

- Conceeded from a corner kick and they had other many chances. I didn't feel an improvement.

- Creating nothing in attack. The only difference I see is now there are more passing options (specially fb overlapping), but it's the same, there is no space, my players always have 2 opponents closing down, passes go to the opponent, crosses nowhere.

- Huge problems defending in the middle. No idea why, they were playing with a lone striker. He was surrounded by 4 players (my two cm and cd). He just turned around, my players only looking and he was nobody knows how and why, in front of my keeper. This was the second goal, but happened at least 3 more times.

- I scored from through ball and a long shot. Quite random.

- Not attacking down the flanks. Almost nothing.

- Defending crosses didn't improve. Actually i conceeded the third goal from a cross, but that is not the reason why i say that. They made 40 crosses, 12 completed. It's true they have now less time to cross, because my fb and w are closing down, but they cross anyway.

Second game.

Friendly, away against Wolfsburg.

I remove more direct passing, PI close down more from my cd-de and that thing about cross to far post.

- I lost 2-0

- fb-su w-at space between when defending issue explained before is still happening, on both sides, no matter roles and duties.

- Still suffering with through balls.

- Conceeded both goals from crosses. Here what i see is that it's true they have less space to cross, but they cross anyway. Sometimes, my fb doesn't allow to cross, because is closing down, but closing down also makes him lose position, so he can't intercept the cross inside the box. The result, in creating chances terms, is more or less like before: before setting close down, my fb intercepted some crosses inside the box. Now they intercept before or simply deny the same number (more or less) of crosses that before were intercepted and cleared inside the box by them.

- Without direct passing, it is better (slightly). We are crossing more, although they are uneffective. Low crosses?

- They managed to shoot many times in front of my box.

- Defending is slightly better. Keeping shape better i mean.

- Problems defending corners are still there. They didn't score, but managed to finish with danger many corners.

- Here the only one who admires anybody is me. I bought the game on xmas and still haven't played a real save. Only testing, trying to understand why i'm losing. It's weird because i've played fm, i don't know, maybe during last 10 years and i never had this problems. Actually, i used to have 3 differents tactics (433, 4231 and 442) and never watched a full game. I admire the ones who can play this game succesfully. It's easy for anyone to imagine how frustrated i am.

Third game.

Friendly, away, against Aston Villa

I set low crosses.

Remove Pi to fb and wingers close down more and tight marking. I've found opp instructions so i set close down an tight mark always to wide opp players (rd, ld, mr and ml)

- I lost 1-0

- More or less the same than other games.

- Slightly more space to cross. left fb overlaping specially.

- I triggered 2 counters.

- Problems with through balls, still there.

- Conceeded from cross: 6 (yes, 6) defenders and 1 (yes, 1) striker.

- Still problems defending corners

- Most of chances they create come from crosses

Well, more or less what i've said already.

And that's it.

I hope you can say something constructive.

Edit: I want you to understand i'm doing my best. Maybe i'm not providing enough info or it is vague. For sure i'm missing many things that probably are happening and i don't realize.

I know more or less the theory (i think average), my main problem is that i don't identify issues during the match.

Anyway, be sure i'm doing my best.

I tried setting fb-su and wm-at in both flanks. Also set my fb man mark opp mr and ml and my wm manmarking fb.

Well, crosses are not that dangerous now, BUT, there are huge spaces in the middle, so results are even worse.

I removed manmarking.

I've read, i think, every thread about defending crosses. I tried every possible solution i've read. Nothing works. Still conceeding like crazy from crosses.

The only way i found to stop conceeding from crosses is manmarking, but then i let so much open space in the middle that the solution is even worse than the previous problem.

Apart from this, my attacking is still nothing. Opp always has more players, my wide men are marked by, at least, two players, there is no space, although they are quite open i can't trigger any counter.

I changed width to wide. That was a huge improvement. Now we are defending crosses at least decently and not to much space in the middle. Let's see.

There was too much space in the middle so i changed to farly wide.

I realized i was making a big mistake positioning my fb and w. I set my lfb-at when there was nobody in midfield to cover (cml was cm-su). I changed it now, fb-at right and fb-su left, wm-su right, wm-at- left.

Attacking is much much better than before. Width gives me more space. I'm creating many chances, and scoring at least in every game.

The problem is defennding. With fairly wide i defend crosses decently (more or less the same than with wide), but there are some gaps in the middle i don't know have to cover. We lose shape, despite i set PI to my cd and cm close down much less.

I already know what happens. Absolut disaster.

Anything I try is even worse than before. I really need some help.

I wonder why i'm not receiving any feedback? Am I doing anything wrong?

You have been receiving feedback, you just don't like the feedback people are giving.

When you were told you were too direct, you insisted that its the way you want to play. Fact is after awhile if you want to beat on a dead horse, people will just walk away.

You have been receiving feedback, you just don't like the feedback people are giving.

When you were told you were too direct, you insisted that its the way you want to play. Fact is after awhile if you want to beat on a dead horse, people will just walk away.

Have you read anything I posted? I don't want to argue but your post is absolutely out of place. I think it's very clear i'm doing my very best. In fact, i'm not playing direct passing.

Read before posting, man. Any help will be really really appreciated but there is no need to belitlle my efforts.

Now we have:

fb-at cd-de cd-de fb-su

wm-su cm-de cm-su wm-at

p-at dlf-su

TI: Fairly wide

PI: cm-de close down much less, cm-su close down less, dlf-su hold position.

Last games, just to see a more general view:

4-0 lost. 2 goals from corner 2 goals from cross.

1-2 win. Goal conceeded from cross.

0-1 win.

0-0

1-1 Goal conceeded from cross

2-3 won. Both goals conceeded from crosses.

1-0 lost. Conceeded from cross

2-3 lost. 1 goal through ball 2 goals from crosses.

0-3 lost. all goals short passin through the middle of my defense.

9 games played 15 goals conceeded and 8 scored.

Scoring ****.

Conceeding too much. I deserved to conceed more. My gk was brilliant in some games.

Crosses killing me.

Conclusion: still a lot of work.

I read this

https://strikerless.com/2015/12/23/dealing-with-crosses-in-the-fm16-me/

I set higher def line, wide and opp to wide man (fb, mr, ml) close down and tight marking.

Still conceeding a lot.

Now, opp doesn't cross from wide, it's true. They don't send long crosses into my box. Now they make 2 short passes and score. I can't post screenshots so i'll try to explain:

Fb short passes to winger who against short passes to striker who scores. (now)

Fb/winger crosses to striker who scores. (before)

The result is the same, conceeding.

Now we have:

fb-at cd-de cd-de fb-su

wm-su cm-de cm-su wm-at

p-at dlf-su

TI: Fairly wide

PI: cm-de close down much less, cm-su close down less, dlf-su hold position.

Last games, just to see a more general view:

4-0 lost. 2 goals from corner 2 goals from cross.

1-2 win. Goal conceeded from cross.

0-1 win.

0-0

1-1 Goal conceeded from cross

2-3 won. Both goals conceeded from crosses.

1-0 lost. Conceeded from cross

2-3 lost. 1 goal through ball 2 goals from crosses.

0-3 lost. all goals short passin through the middle of my defense.

9 games played 15 goals conceeded and 8 scored.

Scoring ****.

Conceeding too much. I deserved to conceed more. My gk was brilliant in some games.

Crosses killing me.

Conclusion: still a lot of work.

9 games, no info for us and a 1 line conclusion. This is why nobody can help. You're not providing anything of use.

9 games, no info for us and a 1 line conclusion. This is why nobody can help. You're not providing anything of use.

Read previous posts please. This was just a general vision to see if results were improving or not.

What about post 31, 32 or 36?

Why no answer to posts 22 or 23?

I'm starting to think you don't want to help me. Hook said "thanks for taking the time to write this up. I have a few ideas for you based on what you've written" and also "no you aren't doing anything wrong, and as far as I can see, you've at least been able to identify what the problems are". He is helping me a lot. If he can, you should also be able to help. If you want, of course.

I'm proving as much info as i can. I wrote huge posts, plenty of ideas i was trying to implement and you just focus in one post where i just wanted to show if results were improving or not. In fact, my conclusion is still a lot of work. It means i'm trying, while I wrote that post, to fix issues. And i'll keep trying.

I was expecting nothing with post 35. Just let you know how results were going while i was trying to fix my issues. Issues that are exposed in other posts.

Read previous posts please. This was just a general vision to see if results were improving or not.

What about post 31, 32 or 36?

I'm starting to think you don't want to help me. Hook said "thanks for taking the time to write this up. I have a few ideas for you based on what you've written" and also "no you aren't doing anything wrong, and as far as I can see, you've at least been able to identify what the problems are". He is helping me a lot. If he can, you should also be able to help. If you want, of course.

I'm proving as much info as i can. I wrote huge posts, plenty of ideas i was trying to implement and you just focus in one post where i just wanted to show if results were improving or not. In fact, my conclusion is still a lot of work. It means i'm trying, while I wrote that post, to fix issues. And i'll keep trying.

I was expecting nothing with post 35. Just let you know how results were going while i was trying to fix my issues. Issues that are exposed in other posts.

So you just played 9 matches, mindlessly clicking Continue? You didn't spot any issues? You didn't make any changes? No observations? Nothing, really?

We can't see anything. You're watching matches. We have very little information. You need to provide this. This was asked for in post 3 already.

Oh my God.

1 issue:

I read this

https://strikerless.com/2015/12/23/d...n-the-fm16-me/

I set higher def line, wide and opp to wide man (fb, mr, ml) close down and tight marking.

Still conceeding a lot.

Now, opp doesn't cross from wide, it's true. They don't send long crosses into my box. Now they make 2 short passes and score. I can't post screenshots so i'll try to explain:

Fb short passes to winger who against short passes to striker who scores. (now)

Fb/winger crosses to striker who scores. (before)

The result is the same, conceeding

Another:

The problem is defennding. With fairly wide i defend crosses decently (more or less the same than with wide), but there are some gaps in the middle i don't know have to cover. We lose shape, despite i set PI to my cd and cm close down much less.

Another:

The only way i found to stop conceeding from crosses is manmarking, but then i let so much open space in the middle that the solution is even worse than the previous problem.

Explaining my issues is not easy for me. My english is not the best, i know. If you don't fully understant what i say, tell me, i'llt ry to explain it better.

Wow, there's a lot of information here and I'm a little confused as to exactly where things stand at present. Can I ask a few questions?

1) Which team are you playing as? Early on in the thread you were playing as Milan, but if you only won 1 match in 73 games I imagine Berlusconi may have sacked you.

2) In post 35 you define your latest tactic. You are using just the Team Instructions and Player Instructions you list? I don't see any mention of Team Shape or Mentality though, can you please say what these are.

3) What style of football are you trying to achieve? I know you wanted directness earlier in the thread, is this still the case?

4) Is it possible for you to upload a pkm of a match where you have had particular issues? Being able to watch a match will really help us understand issues, rather than just reading about your problems.

Thanks.

Wow, there's a lot of information here and I'm a little confused as to exactly where things stand at present. Can I ask a few questions?

1) Which team are you playing as? Early on in the thread you were playing as Milan, but if you only won 1 match in 73 games I imagine Berlusconi may have sacked you.

2) In post 35 you define your latest tactic. You are using just the Team Instructions and Player Instructions you list? I don't see any mention of Team Shape or Mentality though, can you please say what these are.

3) What style of football are you trying to achieve? I know you wanted directness earlier in the thread, is this still the case?

4) Is it possible for you to upload a pkm of a match where you have had particular issues? Being able to watch a match will really help us understand issues, rather than just reading about your problems.

Thanks.

Herne, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ANSWERING.

Of course, i'll give any info i can.

1) I looked for a team which had players suitable to my tactic roles. I choosed Eibar, from Liga BBVA. And no, they are not sacking me because i have test save, and i save and load before every game (so i can play any of the first 20 games). If i face the same opponents all the time is easier to spot issues and see how tweaks affect my team.

2) My tactic: Post 35.Team shape flexible. Mentality standard.PI and TI are there. Read please post 28 and you'll understand. After, i was trying to stop conceeding from crosses, so i started tweaking (width, d-line, oi, pi,...) but the basic tactic is that.

General problems i see:

- Defending is in general not bad. i mean, we are quite well positioned, not much space. Here the problem is conceeding from crosses. If you take a look, for instance, to post 35 you will see i conceed 15 goals in 9 games, 9 of them coming from crosses. That's a 60% of goals coming from crosses, 1 per game. Definitively too much.

Before you posted, i was trying to fix it. If you read posts 31, 32 and 36, you will see what i was trying.

- Attacking is really bad. There is no movement and no space. Hook helped me changing some roles (post 30), and it slighlty improved, bu i feel my players don't see empty space or, better said, i'm not giving the instructions to make them exploit it. I'd like to keep things simple, just send the ball to a flank and cross, but as Hook, said, I need better passing options that simply down the flanks. Here cm-su and dlf-su should help, but i'm doing something wrong.

3) Again post 28.

4) Yes. Here you are.

My tactic in this game:

fb-at cd-de cd-de fb-su

wm-su cm-de cm-su wm-at

p-at dlf-su

PI: cm-de close down much less, cm-su close down much less, dlf-su hod position.

The rest by default, standard, flexible...

No OI.

Playing on FMtouch.

Teams: Gelserkirchen-Eibar. Mine, Eibar. Schalke is playing 4411.

I think with the first half will be enough to see what's happening

http://www.filedropper.com/gelsenkirchen-eibar

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- When we win back the ball we are send a long pass to nobody (min 2)

- Min 2:11 big gap between my cd left and fb left.

- Min 2:56 mayer receives the ball and my cd not closing down.

- Min 4:54 I can trigger a counter. Nobody helps.

- Min 5:26 My lfb has acres of space,

- Min 5:51 again.

- Min 6:28 big gap between my rcm and rm.

- Min 6:38 My lm is too narrow.

- Min 7:15 big gap between my rcm and rm

- Min 9:26 My left cb closes down leaving space behind when my cml is already closing down that player.

- Min 10:06 We can trigger a counter but pass is awful

- Min 10:35 What the hell is my rm doing? Finally he closed down. Opponent is closed down by 2 players anyway crosses. Inside the box 4 against 2 anyway finish and almost score.

- Min 10:55 My fn has space. Bad pass.

- Min 11:30 Where is my rcm going?

- Min 11:38 Their lone striker comes deep to get the ball. My 4 cm and cb just watch. Not a problem cause he has no passing options.

- Min 11:42 Where is my rm?

- Min 13: 41 Why my ls is so narrow?

- Min 15:32 Look my number 9

- Min 16:01 Their number is marked anyway crosses. Inside box 3 against 1 but almost score

- Min 16:37 My lfb in acres of space.

- Min 22: 46 Their mr has time and space to cross. Inside the box 4 against 2. Goal.

- Min 23:29 look my number 6. Why he is not bombing forward?

- Min 23:27 my rfb is alone

- Min 25:10 two guys closing down but opp anyway crosses. Inside the box 4 against 2.Goal.

- Min 25:50 my rm is alone

- Why are we going all the time to crowded zones?

- Min 26:52 Is that difficult to see the space?

- Min 31:16 mr not bombing forward.

- Min 32:28 my cml loses position. Why he is closing down so much? He has close down less PI,

- Min 33:22 Where is my lm (number 9)?

- 34:17 mr not bombing forward

- Min 34:21 the same.

- Min 36:15 Well played. Dlf comes deep, cm runs forward, lm bombs forward.

- Min 37:26 mr wm are too narrow.

- Min 40:26 I don't understand what happened.

- Min 41. 46 well done.

Thanks for uploading the pkm.

Take a deep breath, stop trying to watch everything . It'll just confuse you (it confuses the hell out of me!).

ok, so from your game vs Schalke, here is your formation and roles (playing Standard mentality; Flexible Team Shape; just one TI Fairly Wide; and PIs cm-de close down much less, cm-su close down less, dlf-su hold position):

If I'm right, at present you are not really trying to define a style of play, just trying to understand some principles as advised by the good Doctor.

First of all, I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with your formation and chosen roles. You could perhaps swap the two strikers so the DLF is on the right, but that's nit-picking.

Anyway, overall with the 4-4-2, your main focus is on managing space. Primarily the space from defence to midfield, and between midfield and attack. You have chosen the middle mentality and team shape, so those settings neither reduce nor increase the space. Your TI of Fairly Wide will open space up a little when in possession, which is fine if you want to try to stretch the opposition more - which would form part of defining a certain style of play, which you are avoiding at present.

Rather than harp on about managing space too much here, I've already done that in this thread http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/447398-Developing-my-4-4-2. It may help you understand some further principles in how I went about things.

Lets have a look at some of this in action:

The match is just 16 seconds old here, Schalke (Groß) has just won the ball:

There's a few things going on.

First, Enrich (your DLF) puts no pressure on Groß. This gives Groß all the time in the world to pick out a pass.

Next, look at all that space between Escalante (your CM-D) and your defenders (eg., Pantic). The only player in that space is a Schalke player (Bergheim).

Third, guess who Groß (with all the time in the world) passes to. Bergheim.

Finally, that single pass takes out your entire team(!) and leaves a 2v2 between the Schalke forwards and your two defenders.

In other words, a lack of pressing high up the pitch results is your defence being stretched.

And that's exactly how the first goal was conceded. I know the goal came from a cross into the box, but here is how the ball got out to the wing in the first place (timed at 22:40):

Geis has the ball who runs towards the referee. Even though Gonzalez is close to Geis, he just tracks Geis without making a challenge.

Three seconds later (which doesn't seem much but is a life time in football) and this is the picture:

Geis has got ahead of Gonzalez, who spent too long thinking about making a challenge and got it wrong. Geis now makes a pass into the space between Meyer and Neubauer which Schultze picks up. Inui doesn't bother tracking Schultze's run. (Question mark over Inui's work rate here perhaps?). This creates a 2v1 overload on your left back (Junca) and Schultze simply passes the ball to Neubauer who crosses for the goal.

All of this is down to a lack of pressure on the ball and poor management of space when defending. Your Midfielder PIs are killing you.

Your attacking play actually isn't too bad, there's just no real purpose behind how your players attack. Your players are also guilty of giving the ball away too easily (especially your Goalie). This is where you will benefit from defining the style of football you want to play as at the moment it's neither one thing nor the other (which I know is the intention for now).

First of all, thank you very much.

"Take a deep breath, stop trying to watch everything . It'll just confuse you (it confuses the hell out of me!)."

I've been told i'm not giving enough info, so just trying to say almost everything i see happening.

"If I'm right, at present you are not really trying to define a style of play, just trying to understand some principles as advised by the good Doctor."

That's it. But in my mind i have an attacking down the flanks and quite direct style. Also, very important for me, solid defense. I mean, i'd rather three 0-0 in a row than winning one and losing two. But this will come later.

"First of all, I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with your formation and chosen roles. You could perhaps swap the two strikers so the DLF is on the right, but that's nit-picking."

I think it is very important to place the runner midfielder in the same side than the striker dropping deep because the two closer together, gives them a much simpler passing option.

Left side is quite well linked.

Right side we have the fb-at overlapping with cm-de covering him, which is a good pairing i think.

"Anyway, overall with the 4-4-2, your main focus is on managing space. Primarily the space from defence to midfield, and between midfield and attack. You have chosen the middle mentality and team shape, so those settings neither reduce nor increase the space. Your TI of Fairly Wide will open space up a little when in possession, which is fine if you want to try to stretch the opposition more - which would form part of defining a certain style of play, which you are avoiding at present."

I've noted, while tweaking, that wide width improves a lot my attacking. I have more passing options, wide men receive more the ball, and central players have more space to pass and move. On the other hand, when defending their starting positions are wider so i have some problems with short passing in the middle and gaps between cd and fb.

"Rather than harp on about managing space too much here, I've already done that in this thread http://community.sigames.com/showthr...oping-my-4-4-2. It may help you understand some further principles in how I went about things."

I read your thread almost everyday. I have a lot of questions.

"Midfielder PIS"

Well, i'll quit this.

I set this PIs because i saw my two cm running like crazy to win the ball back when i want to hold the shape. Also, i though, more closing down should cause big gaps between my cd and cm.

If i remove this PI, do you think this gaps will appear? I'll try to see it on my own, but in case it happens, what do you think about setting slightly higher def-lin? I'm afraid of strikers coming deep between midfield and defense.

In addition, higher defense should help me to deal with crosses? https://strikerless.com/2015/12/23/dealing-with-crosses-in-the-fm16-me/

Other questions:

- Do you think crosses are a real problem? I conceeded 3 goals from crosses. What can i do about it? I tried a lot of things but i can't stop conceeding from crosses

- Is my p-at to static? Do you see him uninvolved? I'm not sure. I've been thinking of changing him to af-at.

- My dfl-su is not coming deep enough. According to your thread, SS is a solution. But then, i won't have a 442, i'll have a 4411 (sorry here i disagree with you). have you tried playing with df-de instead of dlf-su? Could you please read my post 23? Look point 4, where i'm talking about my df.

Thanks a lot again.

ok, the questions you raise relate to how to get this latest system working. However, as mentioned above, this latest system comes from a suggestion by Dr Hook to set it up almost as a test bed in order to understand some principles involved. So I think trying to answer questions that are designed to get this specific system "working" is missing the point.

So, if I'm right, the actual system and style of play you want is (when in possession) fairly direct football with a particular focus down the flanks. Defensively I'm not sure.

4-4-2 seems to be your preferred formation, although I really wouldn't get too hung up on the chalkboard formation. What your players actually do on the pitch is far more important. 4-4-2 is just a number.

With that in mind, and because we are only talking about principles at this stage, watch a match you have already played and see if your players are playing anywhere near your chosen style. They won't be, so why not? Perhaps you need to change a player role - for example change a WM to a winger; perhaps you need to tell your team to focus play down the flanks more; perhaps one of your midfielders could use a tweak to help him be more involved both offensively and defensively; perhaps the team needs to play more compactly in order to open up space on the flanks for you to use; perhaps a mentality change is needed.

These are some of the principles of play that you can start to look at. Begin by watching just one player - click on him so his name is highlighted to make it easier for you to track his movements. Use the pause and rewind buttons if you need to. When watching him, is he playing in the manner that you want him to play?

Once you are happy with how players individually are playing, expand this to look at something wider, such as defensive positioning and space. This is where mentality changes and TI adjustments can help you define your style of play.

Remember as well that you are playing as Eibar, which is not a very good team. A low risk mentality such as Counter with perhaps a couple of TIs to help define your style of play could be a good starting point once you are comfortable with some of the principles involved.

ok, the questions you raise relate to how to get this latest system working. However, as mentioned above, this latest system comes from a suggestion by Dr Hook to set it up almost as a test bed in order to understand some principles involved. So I think trying to answer questions that are designed to get this specific system "working" is missing the point.

So, if I'm right, the actual system and style of play you want is (when in possession) fairly direct football with a particular focus down the flanks. Defensively I'm not sure.

4-4-2 seems to be your preferred formation, although I really wouldn't get too hung up on the chalkboard formation. What your players actually do on the pitch is far more important. 4-4-2 is just a number.

With that in mind, and because we are only talking about principles at this stage, watch a match you have already played and see if your players are playing anywhere near your chosen style. They won't be, so why not? Perhaps you need to change a player role - for example change a WM to a winger; perhaps you need to tell your team to focus play down the flanks more; perhaps one of your midfielders could use a tweak to help him be more involved both offensively and defensively; perhaps the team needs to play more compactly in order to open up space on the flanks for you to use; perhaps a mentality change is needed.

These are some of the principles of play that you can start to look at. Begin by watching just one player - click on him so his name is highlighted to make it easier for you to track his movements. Use the pause and rewind buttons if you need to. When watching him, is he playing in the manner that you want him to play?

Once you are happy with how players individually are playing, expand this to look at something wider, such as defensive positioning and space. This is where mentality changes and TI adjustments can help you define your style of play.

Remember as well that you are playing as Eibar, which is not a very good team. A low risk mentality such as Counter with perhaps a couple of TIs to help define your style of play could be a good starting point once you are comfortable with some of the principles involved.

Ok, i'll do that and let you know.

Thanks

Here we go

1. Formation, roles and duties.

gk

fb-at cd-de cd-de fb-su

wm-su cm-de cm-su wm-at

p-at df-de

2. What i expect from my players.

GK: Saves. If he makes saves that's enough.

fb-at. First, i don't like at duty. I set at duty, following Hook's advice. Actually, this duty adds movement and some alternative sattacking, but creates gaps behind.

Anyway, what i expect from my fb-at is to cover his side and overlap my wm.

cd-de Clera balls. Mark strikers. Good at heading so he can help in attacking setpieces. When he has the ball, just safe pass.

fb-su. The same than fb-at, but less overlaping, and, in consequence, not creating gaps behind.

cm-de. I want an anchor man in midfield strata. Is that possible or i should drop him to dm and set an anchor man? It's a good question because i want to defend flat but attack diamond.

cm-su. First, i'm not sure about this role. I want him to be my creative force and also help in defense. I want him to hold shape, with 2 banks of 4.

mr/ml. I want them to bomb forward and cross. If the cross comes from the other flank, get into the box to finish. Defending, they should track back placing 2 banks of 4.

df-de. Close down op defenders, and deeper midfielders. When defending he should be involved trying to win the ball back when it comes to central defenders and deep midfielders. Attacking, he should link with my other striker

P-a. Finisher. Nothing else. Just be inside the box and score.

3. What are my players actually doing?

I attach a game where you can see how it was. http://www.filedropper.com/gelsenkirchen-eibar3

gk: Saves. He did quite well.

fb-at and fb-su: Min 7:27 he bombs forward but left a lot of space behind. That's why i don't like attacking fb. Min 9:15 both fb covering flanks, that's ok. Min 13:22 Left fb is attacking, that's why i think fb-su is enough attacking. He makes forward runs, not that often than attacking fb, but enough. Also he doesn't let so many spaces behind. Min 18:25 That's his main duty. Min 40:05 He is too high, he swapped positions with mr. I don't want that because my talented player is mr, not fb (the same in left flank).

cd-de: Min 45:11 here is my left cb? We must not lose shape. Min 55:45 clear the ball please. Min 58:50 please clear the ball. My cd-de are not doing anything specially against of what i expect,. Just they are not defending crosses good enough.

cm-de. Min 7:28, he is not covering fb-at. Min 25:30 where the hell is he going? Min 29:26 ok, that's his job. Min 42:43 simple pass, ok. Min 46:18 closing down too much, he lost position look the gap between def and mid. Min 49:15 here is where he must be. Min 54:47 Where is he going? Min 57:48 That's it. Min 63:20 Hello!! where are you? Min 71:23. That's it.

cm-su: Min 2:03 well positioned, slightly higher than cm-de but not losing position. Min 7:26 He is alone, why they don't pass him the ball? He could send the ball to the other flank where there is space. Isn't he attracting the ball enough? Min 9:57 Look the gap. That's why i don't want him to close down. Min 29:22 Where is he going? Min 34:26 Look the gap. Min 42:39 why they don't pass the ball to him? Min 42:47 again. Min 45:12 Look the gap.

I haven't seen him doing enough forward runs. We are not passing the ball to him, he should be my creative force.

wm-su (mr): Min 00:17 he is coming narrow, i don't want that i want him wide. Probably it is caused by role and duty. Min 10:00 2 banks of 4, ok. Min 26:45 well done. Min 40:08 Why aren't you behind Neubauer? Min 42:00 look that space! Min 46:51 He doesn't bomb forward. Min 79:22 He should be between choupo and aogo.

wm-at (ml): Min 1:57 good tracking bakc. Min 33:35 That's it wide and cross. Min 44:05 Not bombing forward. Min 46:52 not bombing forward. Min 52:39. Good, he came narrow inside the box to finish a cross coming from right side. Min 79:22 Good, going wide.

Df-de: Min 4:26 He should be closing down Goretzka. Min 6:53 That's it. Min 9:10 he doesn't follow Goretzka. Min 9:12 ok. Min 11:25 ok he came deep. Min 12:20 Again he came deep. Min 35:59 Trying to trigger a counter, ok. Min 36: 55 Good combination between cm-su and df-de, they swapped positions. Min 40:08 Not good, look that space, why he doesn't come deep? Min 40:45 Not following Goretzka. Min 44:05 cm-su and df-de, they swapped positions, good movement. Min 45:27 Too much space between midfield and strikers, he is not coming deep. Min 54:08 Not closing down. Min 55:41 Now followed Goretzka. Min 75:26 Good coming deep to get the ball, and swapping positions.

P-at: Well, I couldn't write anything about him. He is doing nothing. He doesn't receive balls to finish, which is his (almost) unique duty. If we don't create chances for him, he has nothing to do.

4. Are my players doing what i expect?

gk: Yes. Saves. He did quite well.

fb-at: No. He is too high, leaves spaces behind and doesn't allow my rm to attack.

cd-de: Yes. They should defend better crosses.

fb-su: Yes. Ok

cm-de. No. He is losing position quite often, sometimes without a rational explanation and other because he closes down too much.

cm-su: No. He doesn't attract the ball. He is not making enough forward runs. He loses position.

wm-su (mr): No. he is not bombing forward. He comes to narrow.

wm-at (ml): No. He is not bombing forward.

Df-de: No. He is not linking enough. He doesn't close down enough. He doesn't mark their deeper midfielder.

P-at: No. He is doing nothing.

5. What can i change to make my players do what i expect?

gk. Nothing.

fb-at. Change to fb-su

Cd-de. I don't know how i can make them defend crosses better.

cm-de. I'd say close down less, but i would be clairly wrong. Maybe dropping him to dm strata and setting anchorman role? What about setting counter mentality, so he will close down less without PI?

cm-su. Atract the ball, make forward runs, help in defense... Roaming playmaker? If i drop my cm-de, should i drop him too?

wm, both. Change to winger-at. I want them wide, so change width to wide/fairly wide.

Df-de. Definitvely, in fm strikers don't come deep enough. What about changing to am-su/at or SS-at with, close down more and tackle harder PI? Even setting manmarking to deeper midfielder?

P-at. i don't know. Maybe change to af-at and he'll move more.