Dortmund 3-4-2-1

I got bored with my main save and decided to sim Dortmund for 1 year and sold the players that would not fit this tactic. Auba went out, as for many others for quick cash. The main players I decided to retain are obvious. Reus, Gundogan, and Hummels(lucky they were not sold), and bought a new line up of CBs and some midfielders, and a new striker/strikers(pending since Lukaku is still considering my contract)

Here is the tactic 3-4-2-1 using inside forwards(please ignore auba since I sold him days after that game) I'm using Barbosa as a complete forward as rotation hoping to get Lukaku accept

Here are some pictures of ball movement

Here is a 3d picture of how most attacks will happen from the middle to the 3rd

As you can see here, Reus the LIF will cut and have 4 options to pass the ball to. Main pass goes to the CF, or Long pass it to the RDW, short pass it to the LDW, or simply lob it to the RIF. The end result being Auba balled it to Yarmolenko for an easy finish.

Your second source of chances will come from the DWs as you can see here. Young Passlack crossing it for an easy finish

So why not just 3-4-3 like the usual? or a 3-4-1-2

Well, I thought about a tactic where one player will always have a minimum of 3 passing options from defense-midfield-attack to make a successful control tactic. The problem with the 4-3-3 is that the RF and the LF cannot be bothered to drop deep sometimes and be a passing option except when nearing the Box. So I decided to test out wing poachers to some success but found them too limited, so I used the IFs and it was more successful. Here is an illustration of, in a perfect world,how the 3-4-2-1 diamond passing lane should work

Here is some game footage with the Diamond passing lane put to work. The question mark is Hummels being out of Position. I thin I put him in BPD instead of BPC thats why Defense to midfield

Attacking. You can see the inside forwards making the defenders busy. This will make space for the DWs to make a run at goal or cross. The fullbacks will try to close down but too late because this will open space for the LW or RW to attack. Lol AI

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Player instructions

Inside forwards - sit narrower

Defensive wingers - stay wider, run wide with the ball

as for PPMs, I still dont know. This tactic is a work in progress but basically any ppm that works well with the assigned role and tactic.

Will update with match stats soon

Interesting formation, but I don't understand one thing. What's the point of having "clear ball to flanks" whilst also having "retain possession" and pass shorter ticked? I'm not sure how that's even possible, those instructions are conflicting, surely?

Well presented, i would say there are a few conflicting items as above points out (retain/shorter but clear to flanks) would also maybe say if your trying to retain possession you would play it out from the back rather than clearing it long to the flanks bypassing defence?

looks good though i think with a few tweaks you could be onto something!

Are the mentality and team shapes not listed, or am I missing something?

To an extent I can understand the above posters mentioning a possible conflict, although I can see the intent here - wanting to focus attacking play down the flanks, which is where the system will be strong. However it wouldn't be "clearing it long to the flanks bypassing defence" as mentioned above, rather "clear ball to flanks" merely gives defenders a slightly longer passing range to help them pass to wide players (so not bypassing the defence) and instructs the team to focus more play down the flanks. Exploiting the left/right flank supports that initial intent.

Shorter passing and retain possession pretty much just reduces the whole team's passing length, reduces space between players and lowers tempo, so increasing the defence's passing length to help them pass to wide players could (to an extent) offset that for the defenders. Essentially the intent of the instructions are probably still valid, the ball will just get to the wide players a little slower than you may expect.

However, I can see how there could be a conflict, although I think it would also depend on the mentality being used, as defenders have different passing instructions set based on the mentality. If a mentality is being used that sets defenders' passing length short in the first place (Control / Attacking) then using the TI to "clear ball to flanks" probably isn't going to give defenders a long enough passing range to reach the wingers when factoring in retain possession and shorter passing as well.

On the other hand, if a mentality is used that gets defenders to clear the ball long (Defensive / Counter), then "clear ball to flanks" may help to give the defenders a little focus on who to clear the ball to, despite the possible interference of the 2 possession shouts.

I'm more concerned about "look for overlap". That TI instructs players at ML/R and AML/R to essentially hold the ball up to wait for and pass to an overlapping fullback or wingback. Unfortunately there are no fullbacks or wingbacks in the formation, so the four wide players are probably getting a little confused there.

I'd also be interested in how a Poacher is performing as the lone striker. That's quite an unusual choice for lone striker and he may be getting a little isolated and/or unable to hold the ball up well when waiting for support.

Are the mentality and team shapes not listed, or am I missing something?

To an extent I can understand the above posters mentioning a possible conflict, although I can see the intent here - wanting to focus attacking play down the flanks, which is where the system will be strong. However it wouldn't be "clearing it long to the flanks bypassing defence" as mentioned above, rather "clear ball to flanks" merely gives defenders a slightly longer passing range to help them pass to wide players (so not bypassing the defence) and instructs the team to focus more play down the flanks. Exploiting the left/right flank supports that initial intent.

Shorter passing and retain possession pretty much just reduces the whole team's passing length, reduces space between players and lowers tempo, so increasing the defence's passing length to help them pass to wide players could (to an extent) offset that for the defenders. Essentially the intent of the instructions are probably still valid, the ball will just get to the wide players a little slower than you may expect.

However, I can see how there could be a conflict, although I think it would also depend on the mentality being used, as defenders have different passing instructions set based on the mentality. If a mentality is being used that sets defenders' passing length short in the first place (Control / Attacking) then using the TI to "clear ball to flanks" probably isn't going to give defenders a long enough passing range to reach the wingers when factoring in retain possession and shorter passing as well.

On the other hand, if a mentality is used that gets defenders to clear the ball long (Defensive / Counter), then "clear ball to flanks" may help to give the defenders a little focus on who to clear the ball to, despite the possible interference of the 2 possession shouts.

I'm more concerned about "look for overlap". That TI instructs players at ML/R and AML/R to essentially hold the ball up to wait for and pass to an overlapping fullback or wingback. Unfortunately there are no fullbacks or wingbacks in the formation, so the four wide players are probably getting a little confused there.

I'd also be interested in how a Poacher is performing as the lone striker. That's quite an unusual choice for lone striker and he may be getting a little isolated and/or unable to hold the ball up well when waiting for support.

If your looking to break the line with through balls though - poacher is the perfect choice isnt it? OR it should be going off descriptions...

But he needs the service to do that. And that might not be forthcoming from two predominantly wide IFs and a Support Duty AP in the MC line.

If your looking to break the line with through balls though - poacher is the perfect choice isnt it? OR it should be going off descriptions...

I didn't say it isn't . I asked the OP how the Poacher is performing as it's an unusual choice for a lone striker.

A lone striker (usually) needs to fulfil 2 roles - goal scorer and creator / ball holder-upper (technical term ). If you read the final paragraph of the in game description you linked, you'll see a Poacher only fulfils one of those duties, hence the interest.

I didn't say it isn't . I asked the OP how the Poacher is performing as it's an unusual choice for a lone striker.

A lone striker (usually) needs to fulfil 2 roles - goal scorer and creator / ball holder-upper (technical term ). If you read the final paragraph of the in game description you linked, you'll see a Poacher only fulfils one of those duties, hence the interest.

yeah, that is absolutely a fair point!

You have an interesting shape but I can easily see the Wingers and the IFs get in the way. I would rather use wingbacks and the CWB (a) role. You get the same shape anyways on attack. Clear Ball Into Flanks and Retaining Possession? I think this is a bad idea. The last thing you want your players to do is hoof the ball away. That will make you lose possession

Interesting formation, but I don't understand one thing. What's the point of having "clear ball to flanks" whilst also having "retain possession" and pass shorter ticked? I'm not sure how that's even possible, those instructions are conflicting, surely?

At first I thought it would be but the problem I found without the clear ball to flanks is. The wide guys are not getting enough of the ball, when they do, not fast enough. I guess my thought process was retain possession but exploit if there is space?

Same tactic, different team

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Again, exploiting the space created by the IFs. Red line for pass. Yellow for movement. Green is for enemy movement to close down ball.

Granted this is a stronger team. I have the ideal players for the roles. Instead of the Ball Winning Mid, I use a box-to-box for my main save.

I didn't say it isn't . I asked the OP how the Poacher is performing as it's an unusual choice for a lone striker.

A lone striker (usually) needs to fulfil 2 roles - goal scorer and creator / ball holder-upper (technical term ). If you read the final paragraph of the in game description you linked, you'll see a Poacher only fulfils one of those duties, hence the interest.

I use a CF attack. He drops deep to receive a pass and create. I sold auba to make room for a complete forward Sorry for the wrong info above.

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Here are some match stats. Ill do more when I get home from work later. Gotta make a living

mid table bpl team Hull vs Bournemouth

top4 bpl team Man Utd vs Bournemouth

One thing I noticed about this tactic is the high amount of fouls the other team is getting. It feels like cheating

For anyone wondering, this is the same tactic(change being auba replaced by barbosa as CFA)

Match Dortmund vs Leverkusen

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one thing that was evident in this match. The diamon passing lane that I was trying to achieve was used the whole game.

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It's a really interesting system. I shared many of the same concerns as other posters, but the extra images do help to allay some of those worries. My main area of doubt remains how well this system defends. The BWM does seem to be back in most images, but is he ever an issue?

If you have time, please could you post a two / three image sequence of images showing how and when the DWs track back to defend (and how deep they drop) against a good side with AML/R players?

It's a really interesting system. I shared many of the same concerns as other posters, but the extra images do help to allay some of those worries. My main area of doubt remains how well this system defends. The BWM does seem to be back in most images, but is he ever an issue?

If you have time, please could you post a two / three image sequence of images showing how and when the DWs track back to defend (and how deep they drop) against a good side with AML/R players?

Sure, let me load up my laptop real quick before my boss arrives. I only have FM 15 in my work computer. Will upload in 10 minutes

It's a really interesting system. I shared many of the same concerns as other posters, but the extra images do help to allay some of those worries. My main area of doubt remains how well this system defends. The BWM does seem to be back in most images, but is he ever an issue?

If you have time, please could you post a two / three image sequence of images showing how and when the DWs track back to defend (and how deep they drop) against a good side with AML/R players?

Hope this is okay. Number 8 and 23 are my central mids

Losing Possession

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Tracking back to defense

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Winning the ball back

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Did another game. Bournemouth vs Southampton

Pretty consistent with the possession and getting fouls

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At first I thought it would be but the problem I found without the clear ball to flanks is. The wide guys are not getting enough of the ball, when they do, not fast enough. I guess my thought process was retain possession but exploit if there is space?

Same tactic, different team

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Again, exploiting the space created by the IFs. Red line for pass. Yellow for movement. Green is for enemy movement to close down ball.

Granted this is a stronger team. I have the ideal players for the roles. Instead of the Ball Winning Mid, I use a box-to-box for my main save.

Really like the looks of this system, it's very intriguing. Just as a quick aside, do you ever consider changing the roles of the central midfield two in game to try to exploit spaces? Think that would be something I'd potentially look to utilize in certain games against particular shapes.

I've been switching up the midfield partnership depending on how the other team plays. Like in the photos above, I always use a DLP on Defend and a Box-to-Box or a BWM. Right now I'm trying to tinker with a Regista and BWM but I've found that I have to use a BPD to stopper than cover since the Regista seems to like to roam a lot and I've conceded weird goals because the back three were left exposed on the counter.

I would also try a 3-1-3-2-1 with a DLD on D, a BWM S, and AML A with IFR A

it would look like this