Any way past Sunderland

Just started another save, with a tactic that looks to be working well (a controlled, patient variation on a 4231 or 4411 - picture a 4411 with the wide-left midfielder pushed forward to the AM line, or a 4231 with the AMR pulled back to the midfield line). Won most games, scoring a few per game, then we come up against Sunderland with their stupifying 541, that usually turns into a 550 in defence. They have no intention of attacking, except for the occasional long ball to Defoe. It seems designed to lull you to sleep than hit you on the counter.

For most of the first half, we played our usual control-short passing, probing game - better than 60% possession, eight shots on goal, two on target, against their two shots on goal, none on target. I tried switching from control to standard to create a bit of space; I tried playing wider; I tried playing control with dropping deeper to try and lure them out (they weren't lured!). We spent 90+ minutes banging our heads against their wall and left the Stadium of Light with a 0-0.

It's not so much a parked bus as a bus depot where they've circled the wagons. So, apart from a lucky set piece, or an unpredictable bit of individual genius, how to you break down that kind of ultra-defensive system?

And what were your player roles? Did you change the roles? Against stubborn teams you also want more runners and movement to try and drag defenders away and make space and then, even then, sometimes you just have to accept that a 0-0 draw against a team(away from home) who doesn't want to play is a decent result.

Just started another save, with a tactic that looks to be working well (a controlled, patient variation on a 4231 or 4411 - picture a 4411 with the wide-left midfielder pushed forward to the AM line, or a 4231 with the AMR pulled back to the midfield line). Won most games, scoring a few per game, then we come up against Sunderland with their stupifying 541, that usually turns into a 550 in defence. They have no intention of attacking, except for the occasional long ball to Defoe. It seems designed to lull you to sleep than hit you on the counter.

For most of the first half, we played our usual control-short passing, probing game - better than 60% possession, eight shots on goal, two on target, against their two shots on goal, none on target. I tried switching from control to standard to create a bit of space; I tried playing wider; I tried playing control with dropping deeper to try and lure them out (they weren't lured!). We spent 90+ minutes banging our heads against their wall and left the Stadium of Light with a 0-0.

It's not so much a parked bus as a bus depot where they've circled the wagons. So, apart from a lucky set piece, or an unpredictable bit of individual genius, how to you break down that kind of ultra-defensive system?

I suggest you have a look at Cleon's Art of Attacking Football thread. Not just to copy his formation or whatever, but read about the shape of an attacking system and how it will work and not work against exactly these type of sides. It more or less describes why having a lot of people in your opponent's half is not always the best way to break them down.

The best way to create space would be to lower your team mentality considerably. It might be a better idea to try a defensive or counter mentality with a Support Duty forward(s) and multiple runners from deep.

Lowering your mentality would serve to draw the opposing team out to mark your now-deeper players.

The last thing you could do is pack the midfield. As Guardiola once said, his biggest problem with facing packed defences at first was overloading the forward line. To solve this, he began overloading the midfield instead, in order to congest the play there and thus release his forwards with fewer defenders to beat.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/403153-Building-A-Tactic-From-The-Beginning-And-Maintaining-It-Long-Term

A good thread to read would be cleons one I have posed above especially pertinent to you is the "Walls of Jericho" section on breaking tight defensive teams down.

I've found that lowering my mentality against teams like this doesn't always help. If the opposition is well disciplined then they won't get drawn out by a counter mentality and lots of support roles. 99 times out of 100, I will still end up with a 0-0. As has been said, a lot of the time you just have to accept that the game will finish 0-0. However, sometimes I find going direct and pumping the ball into their box works. If you consider that they want you to play in front of them by sitting off you and don't leave any space in behind for runners then you are really only left with one option; you have to get amongst them. Stick 2 or 3 strikers up top (if they're playing 5 at the back then 3 strikers will occupy 3 defenders on a 1:1 ratio). Play a target man (potentially on the attack duty to make sure he's well advanced) and then two defensive forwards on support to chase the scraps. Alternatively play the target man on support and then use two advanced forwards (I've found both ways to be effective).

If they're only keeping Defoe up top then 2 centre backs should be able to nullify him. It also wouldn't hurt to play a defensive midfielder to stop the ball ever getting through to him and preventing any potential runners from midfield getting through. The rest of your midfield needs to be supporting the attack (whether that's by picking up flick ons or getting on the 2nd ball if it bounces loose at the edge of the area). I would go with wing backs on support duty if you play 4 at the back because they'll look to get the ball in to the box but won't push too far forward (lots of diagonal crosses).

You basically have to play the percentages. That's the option they're giving you so take it and capitalise on it. So long as you have at least one big, tall, physical striker who can beat their defenders in the air then you'll have a chance.