Liverpool woes

I've played this game since Championship manager 02/03. I took a year off last year, as I didn't feel like the game had improved enough to warrant it.

This year I'm really struggling. Has the game changed so much that I'm now lost?

I chose to be Liverpool for my first save, as usual.

My first game to Spartak Moscow I used the 'Christmas Tree' formation... I lost 7-0. I then played Chaves with the same formation and lost 1-0. I don't even know who Chaves are. I lost every pre-season game. Trying to tinker with the tactics didn't work. In past games I could deploy virtually any tactic and roll over the unknown teams in pre-season. This year looks entirely different.

My first game of the season was against United, where I lost 2-1. Not terrible, but I took the lead through pure luck. However I picked up multiple injuries. Firmino, Benteke, Milner, Coutinho all picked up knocks and I finished the game with 10 men. With Henderson already out injured, and the fact that I sold Lucas Leiva and Joe Allen too, leaving me very light in midfield with only young players able to come in. I won the second game against Sunderland 2-0, still using the Christmas Tree.

I narrowly lost to Chelsea 1-0 thanks to a last minute Diego Costa header, which I took positives from. However against Arsenal I'm slaughtered every time. I saved before the game as I wanted to test out other formations. First game I lost 8-1. They had 33 shots on goal to my 1. I restarted. 6-0. I had no shots on goal. I've probably played this fixture against Arsenal 8 times, and I've scored once. The best scoreline I've come out with is 2-0. Most times I'm 4-0 down at half time. I know I have injuries but this is a joke.

I've used a plethora of different formations from Liverpool threads, or just interesting formations I've seen on here as the Christmas Tree isn't giving me any fire power up front. I've also found no matter what tactics I employ, whether it be play out from defence or pump the ball into the box, my midfield is by-passed. It's simply a long ball from my defence that is cleared by their defence, and instantly I'm defending on the edge of my box. I've even tried to pack the midfield and they still by-pass it with a single clearing header.

I'm about to move on from the fixture, as it's still early days, and I do have a very thin squad, but being beaten by 8-1, 6-0, 5-0, 4-0 seems a bit crazy. Even being turned over 7-0 against Spartak makes absolutely no sense.

Does anyone have any ideas?

How are you watching the game?

If you are using this one game against Arsenal as a test subject may I suggest you examine it a bit closer, because it doesn't sound like you understand what is going wrong. You describe trying multiple things, but not how you are failing.

Watch the game on 2d classic and extended or comprehensive and try to make adjustments. My guess is you are too attacking and get murdered on the flanks, but that's really just a shot in the dark, only you can know this.

Go back to basics, use few instructions, select a solid defensive shape, with a good balance of roles, and you should not loose by four or more goals.

Spartak aren't a weak side. Was the side you faced Chivas by any chance? If so, neither of those teams are "unknown".

It sounds like your players are unfamiliar with an odd tactic. Can you post some pictures of your tactics screen?

Preseason should be used to build tactical familiarity. If you're constantly tinkering with your tactics you're going to have a bad time, your players need to develop an understanding of the system you're using. If you're playing virtually polar opposite systems each match, you're of course going to see your players struggle.

How are you watching the game?

If you are using this one game against Arsenal as a test subject may I suggest you examine it a bit closer, because it doesn't sound like you understand what is going wrong. You describe trying multiple things, but not how you are failing.

Watch the game on 2d classic and extended or comprehensive and try to make adjustments. My guess is you are too attacking and get murdered on the flanks, but that's really just a shot in the dark, only you can know this.

Go back to basics, use few instructions, select a solid defensive shape, with a good balance of roles, and you should not loose by four or more goals.

I'm watching on the 3D view. It's all down the flanks. I just tried again and it seemed solid but Hector Bellerin ran from the half way line, through about 4 players and found the top corner twice at the end of the second half. Identical goals. I've tried 5 at the back. I've tried 3 at the back with 5 in front of them. I just get torn to shreds.

Spartak aren't a weak side. Was the side you faced Chivas by any chance? If so, neither of those teams are "unknown".

It sounds like your players are unfamiliar with an odd tactic. Can you post some pictures of your tactics screen?

Preseason should be used to build tactical familiarity. If you're constantly tinkering with your tactics you're going to have a bad time, your players need to develop an understanding of the system you're using. If you're playing virtually polar opposite systems each match, you're of course going to see your players struggle.

No, Chaves. They're in the Segunda Liga in Portugal. Spartak aren't unknown, but 7-0? Come on. I'm playing similar tactics, but the Christmas Tree got torn apart 8-1 and 6-0 the first two times I tried it against Arsenal. I had to tinker.

Here's the current game. 3-0 down at half time. I tried a counter-style 4-4-1-1.

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="FhMJjz1"><a href="//imgur.com/FhMJjz1">View post on imgur.com</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="9fY8Pnd"><a href="//imgur.com/9fY8Pnd">View post on imgur.com</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

You have a few problems with that tactic above.

Just on an initial glance I would have the following concerns:

A) Lone striker on attack duty, a pet hate of mine. IMO lone strikers should always be on a support duty to link play.

B) No other players on attack duty so the ball will just end up being passed around the midfield because no-one is making runs forward to support the striker.

C) Two playmakers which adds to the problem of the ball just being passed around without making use of possession.

D) Both fullbacks on defend meaning no-one from the back four is getting forward, made worse because you have "Look for overlap" ticked when no one is looking to overlap.

Generally speaking it looks like your issue is tactical and you need to work on how to build your tactics. You could start a thread in the tactics forum or read some of the stickies but for a start you need to think about how your team will get the ball forward, how you are going to create movement between the lines and which players are going to get on the end of the attacks.

A lot of those instructions are conflicting with each other, the roles and the mentality/shape

First things that jumps out

- Fullbacks on defensive duty, but using look for overlap and be more disciplined. This will instruct your wingers to hold up the ball to wait for overlap's that probably won't come quick enough.

- Playing wide, short passing and very high tempo. My guess is this will result in a lot of bad passing decisions, with long balls that get intercepted.

- Counted/fluid but with close down much more and prevent gk distribution. You team will fail to keep their defensive shape and there will be lots of space to exploit.

I'm tempted to suggest you remove all instructions and just play defensive/flexible and see what happens

They're very good points you made. I suppose in tinkering I missed changing those. I'll keep updates on this thread, as I'm just going to move on from this game and see how I do in the next match against West Brom. I'll take your changes into account and stick with the 4-4-1-1 until some of the crocked players return.

Also, I really like that combo of a defender on cover, one slightly further ahead, and the same in midfield, but you have them reverted in my opinion.

Bascially you are compressing the space between Pepelu/Sakho and leaving a big gap between Skertel/Can. If you flip the two defender, that makes a whole lot more sense to me.

They're very good points you made. I suppose in tinkering I missed changing those. I'll keep updates on this thread, as I'm just going to move on from this game and see how I do in the next match against West Brom. I'll take your changes into account and stick with the 4-4-1-1 until some of the crocked players return.

If you are sticking with the 4411 you need to make some changes, the main ones I would consider initially are:

A) Switch the fullbacks to support duty.

B) Switch the ST to support duty.

C) Switch the AMC to attack duty, maybe a Treq role.

D) Switch at least one winger to attack duty.

I'm going to move this over to the Tactics forum. It went past just general discussion

To update this, I've been on a very good run since the West Brom game. I drew that game 2-2, but I've won every game since, bar a tough home game against Man City that ended 0-0. Currently we're sitting in 3rd, level with United who are 4th, but with a game in hand. The game in hand is against Spurs, who are 5th, so it's a huge fixture.

I haven't really touched anything tactically either. Still playing 4-4-1-1 as it suited the injuries I had when I started to play that formation, but even with players returning from injury I've stuck with it. I suppose familiarity is very important in this game. I still haven't added too many more instructions as the weeks have gone past.

A small update on the players themselves, Gabriel Barbosa went on a scoring run before getting injured, luckily we have him back and he's amongst the goals again. Lallana is off to Arsenal for 25 million, not sure if I'll regret that but they're sat in 7th and are in very poor form. I've already used part of that money to bring in Breel Embolo who I got a good look at over two legs in the Europa League. I also narrowly missed out on signing Luan who has agreed terms with Bayern. As far as the youngsters go, Nunnely was set to go out on load but he got injured and was ruled out for 8 months after rupturing his cruciate ligaments and Pepelu has gone off to Portsmouth on loan.

Computer went crazy and I lost everything on it. Real shame as I was in a great spell with Liverpool.

Starting again with Hertha Berlin. I'll create a new thread.

Computer went crazy and I lost everything on it. Real shame as I was in a great spell with Liverpool.

Starting again with Hertha Berlin. I'll create a new thread.

Cloud saving. Not a bad idea sometimes.