Game Analysis

Hey everyone.

Just wondering if someone has created a thread in regards to match analysis.

I have just started a new career with Liverpool and have just played two matches that couldn't be further apart. Yet nothing was changed tactically (a few players where rested but that was all). One against Stoke and the other against Vitesse, so not vastly different opposition

Is there a way too analyze the match or do you actually have to watch a 90 minute game?

PS i struggle to watch Liverpool play 90 minutes in real life, so im definitely not going to watch little stick figures run aimlessly round my screen.

Actually I think a post on how to go about analyzing a match properly would be a good idea. Watching matches I find my mind wanders and I end up ball watching a lot, it becomes quite hypnotic. But I often don't know what I should be looking out for.

The same with the Match Analysis tab, I look at passes missed and where shots are coming from and average positions etc, but I often feel like I don't have a good system for figuring out whats going wrong.

Nothing beats watching a game. Watching whether your player with the ball has passing options, everyone is in space, no one trying to occupy the same space, quality of shots taken etc. Then there's the defensive side, whether D-Line is high enough, an opposition player is left in too much space and why etc etc.

You don't even need a full 90 minutes for it. Usually in 10-15 mins, I see all of that.

I've done many threads about how to analyse. The one's I've done for FM15 can be found here;

From post 10 onwards in this thread

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/403153-Building-A-Tactic-From-The-Beginning-And-Maintaining-It-Long-Term?p=10010888&viewfull=1#post10010888

And then I did athread about it quite recently but people didn't seem to be interested in sadly and that thread can be found here;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/427701-How-to-Identify-Tactical-Issues

I've done many threads about how to analyse. The one's I've done for FM15 can be found here;

From post 10 onwards in this thread

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/403153-Building-A-Tactic-From-The-Beginning-And-Maintaining-It-Long-Term?p=10010888&viewfull=1#post10010888

And then I did athread about it quite recently but people didn't seem to be interested in sadly and that thread can be found here;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/427701-How-to-Identify-Tactical-Issues

This will probably make me sound like an idiot, in fact I'm sure it will. However, while I think those posts are fantastic, and very detailed, in someways they are too in depth for me to feel like they help me, I could never get anything out of them. Maybe its because I'm not you and I'm not able to really get my head round what you are getting at. Feels like Stephen Hawking explaining the universe to me.

Personally, I'd rather just have a list of things I can look at as a rule of thumb so when I am watching a match, so stuff like 'is my d line high enough, how do I tell' where are the opposition getting chances from, how do I fix it. Or 'here is my heat map.. what is that saying about my side' Just really basic things to help me make a choice as to what I can do next to solve problems in my team. FM shouldn't be that complicated that I need to sit and examine every single minute in a replay over and over again to get my team working properly.

This will probably make me sound like an idiot, in fact I'm sure it will. However, while I think those posts are fantastic, and very detailed, in someways they are too in depth for me to feel like they help me, I could never get anything out of them. Maybe its because I'm not you and I'm not able to really get my head round what you are getting at. Feels like Stephen Hawking explaining the universe to me.

Personally, I'd rather just have a list of things I can look at as a rule of thumb so when I am watching a match, so stuff like 'is my d line high enough, how do I tell' where are the opposition getting chances from, how do I fix it. Or 'here is my heat map.. what is that saying about my side' Just really basic things to help me make a choice as to what I can do next to solve problems in my team. FM shouldn't be that complicated that I need to sit and examine every single minute in a replay over and over again to get my team working properly.

The second link is the basic things to look at, did you read it? It can't be streamlined any more and it gives you a basic list of things to look for. It's really as basic as possible it can't be any less.

The second link is the basic things to look at, did you read it? It can't be streamlined any more and it gives you a basic list of things to look for.

Yep I've read it all a number of times, but if I'm honest I didn't get anything particularly out of it, hard as I try. Possibly because you are really only talking about a couple of situations in your side where things are actually working perfectly and there is nothing wrong at all, I don't find it useful looking at teams without problems.

Possibly its because you are talking in very low level terms of all the myriad options each player has in any one situation. I really don't have the time to analyse games in that level of detail. As I said, what I'd really like is a high level overview, of things to look out for.. in list form!

Honestly I'm not criticising those posts, but I think its worth saying that I'm hardly a beginner at the game, I think I have a pretty good knowledge of football and spend a lot of time watching matches and reading analysis sites.. and I'm struggling to translate your post to my own game. Possibly I am just an idiot though.

Yep I've read it all a number of times, but if I'm honest I didn't get anything particularly out of it, hard as I try. Possibly because you are really only talking about a couple of situations in your side where things are actually working perfectly and there is nothing wrong at all, I don't find it useful looking at teams without problems.

Possibly its because you are talking in very low level terms of all the myriad options each player has in any one situation. I really don't have the time to analyse games in that level of detail. As I said, what I'd really like is a high level overview, of things to look out for.. in list form!

Honestly I'm not criticising those posts, but I think its worth saying that I'm hardly a beginner at the game, I think I have a pretty good knowledge of football and spend a lot of time watching matches and reading analysis sites.. and I'm struggling to translate your post to my own game. Possibly I am just an idiot though.

If you understand football and read a lot of analysis sites then how can you not translate that into the game? It's the same thing and which my posts detail. If you have a good knowledge of football like you claim then you should be able to do the same when watching a game in FM.

As for a basic list that can't ever happen really because if you have the knowledge you say you do about football then you'll realise every single situation is different and the actual context of what happened is needed in order to know why. So a list wouldn't be relevant or helpful. Context is the biggest single most important factor of any kind of analysing.

I don't mean to be critical of you btw. I just don't understand how people can claim to have a good understanding of football or the game yet not be able to understand things even in basic form? It's all common sense.

My issue is that usually there are too many variables to be looking out for, and its often very difficult to know which ones I should be paying attention to and which ones are less important. I could spend a million years watching the matches and trying to figure out whats happened and why.

And thats as someone who feels they have a decent knowledge of football. Someone else might feel even more lost.

I'm sure its possible to break down how to use the analysis tab, how to pay attention to stats in conjunction with events in game to identify issues, without concentrating on the second by second minutae.

None of what I mentioned is particularly difficult. It just takes watching for. You can go into much more detail of course, but do the basics and for the most part you'll be fine.

Reallg I'm just trying to give you some feedback on your posts because I think that sometimes maybe you don't realise that not everyone sees the game in the way you do and things that may be obvious to you aren't to everyone else.

I'm not Cleon.

Don't try and do everything at once. Do bits at a time. Focus on just passing options first, for instance. Then move onto something else.

Anyway, just knowing the basics (what's in the sticky guides) will already get you a relatively good, working tactic. The rest is fine-tuning.

All of it just needs some common sense though and you'll be fine.

You may be trying to run before you can walk.

Forget live matches for now. Go back to matches already played and watch the highlights in whatever 2D or 3D way is most comfortable for you. Highlight one or two players and just watch them, forget everyone else. Watch how they move, how they interact with team mates and opposition players. Re-run it several times if you like, or watch a different match and watch the same players again - do they behave in a similar manner? If not, what changed?

Once happy, go back and watch a different set of players, and so on. It may sound boring (which it can be lol), but you should start to see patterns of play emerge.

Eventually you should become familiar enough with how your team plays that these patterns start to form cohesive pictures and live matches become easier to read.

Of course, this won't happen overnight. Nobody, not even the mods, were born with the ability to see everything - it's all practise and experience over a period of time. Like everything in this world, the more you put in, the more you will get out.

The stats can also help, but are no substitute for live action. Rather, they are complimentary to the action. eg., why is your defensive midfielder having a bad day? Watching the match you may see him missing tackles - checking the stats for tackles made could confirm your suspicions. Or, pause the match, check the stats, then replay some or all of the action that has already taken place to see it happening if you missed it.

Reallg I'm just trying to give you some feedback on your posts because I think that sometimes maybe you don't realise that not everyone sees the game in the way you do and things that may be obvious to you aren't to everyone else.

I'm fully aware of this be assured of that that's why I even do posts and they're always done in basics terms. All I can do if provide the user with the tools, anyone who has a basic knowledge of football can easily implement everything I do. It's down to you to use it in your own game. I can't write in any simpler terms the guides I do. If you can't even get the jist of the things to look for from the second link I gave then I really don't know how I could possibly help you analyse a game. There is only so much I can do before it relies on the user understanding

I mean how hard is to see;

Oh my striker isn't doing much during the match. So you look at the stats and see he wasn't involved. Then what's the next step? Look at the supply he had, is it a case of him not being involved due to lack of supply? Or is it because he's marked out of the game? That's one very quick check you could do and it would take seconds to do and you'd have identifed the issue instantly.

Another example could be you being overrun in the midfield. So you'd look at your shape and the opposition and see if you naturally lack the numbers. If so then you have to deal with it the best you can. If not, then why are you getting overrun, are players positioned too deep or high?

It really is that simple. It's like a game of say what you see.

I noticed in the SI Sports Centre piece where we tried to analyse (and guess) the AI tactical systems, that Cleon especially, is a lot more perceptive than I am about opposition D-lines etc. I don't tend to focus on that. I make sure my own team does what it needs to - 1. Passing options, 2. players in space and 3. no opposition players in acres of space. I get by just fine.

Oh my striker isn't doing much during the match. So you look at the stats and see he wasn't involved. Then what's the next step? Look at the supply he had, is it a case of him not being involved due to lack of supply? Or is it because he's marked out of the game? That's one very quick check you could do and it would take seconds to do and you'd have identifed the issue instantly.

Another example could be you being overrun in the midfield. So you'd look at your shape and the opposition and see if you naturally lack the numbers. If so then you have to deal with it the best you can. If not, then why are you getting overrun, are players positioned too deep or high?

See this is EXACTLY the sort of post I'd hope to see. That sort of thing is helpful. simply having a load of these acenarios , seeing how you can identify them, and then possible ways to fix them would be pretty useful.

Again it's probably better to assume people don't know this stuff

That's all just common sense, tbh.

Assume it's not. Assume people can't even see that. Then write that.

I look at it like this:

There are a plethora of online stat sites now, with the FortFourTwo Stats Zone and Sqwawka springing to mind. If you went onto one of those sites and looked at some stats, heat maps, pass, tackle, shot and interception maps, would they represent a game you had just watched? Could you correlate it with the corresponding match?

FM gets bashed now and then because people focus on stats rather than matches. If you focus on the match then you see beyond the stats and that's basically what Cleon and HUNT3R are saying. It's not that hard - it's really not - to watch a match and spot stuff. Ask yourself if you can do it when watching a real game of football. If you can't there, then maybe that's something you need to brush up on individually. FM doesn't perfectly simulate football but it does a decent job in many aspects, so you can apply your real-life knowledge to FM in many aspects.

No I agree but at the same time the analysis tab has to be of some use or why does it exist. I personally don't have the time, what with job and a family to watch matches on full, rewind, rewatch again. And even if I did would I really be able to truly identify the problem. Maybe I would, and I have in the past, I wrote a post on making changes during the game based on what you are seeing.

But there are occasions where things crop up and it's hard to know why. Say the opposition much more possession, and you can't get hold of the ball, what do you do. Of course you could say push up and hassle, or flood the midfield. But just because you know that doesn't mean everyone will.

I just think there are quite a few high level generalisations you can make and ways of spotting potential problems that could make a very good post. But it would need to under the assumption that not everyone is Michael Cox

But there are occasions where things crop up and it's hard to know why. Say the opposition much more possession, and you can't get hold of the ball, what do you do. Of course you could say push up and hassle, or flood the midfield. But just because you know that doesn't mean everyone will.

All of this comes back to watching the match. You've noticed they have more possession. Why? Are you just giving the ball away a lot? Are your players getting tackled in possession and how/why is this happening? Where are they keeping possession? Pointless passing between the back 4? A playmaker in acres of space? You being outnumbered in midfield? etc.

You can't just guess and make sweeping generalisations. Cleon said it: context. You need to know what is happening.

I'm at the point where even a newly set up tactic works for the most part. It then takes 2 or 3 games of watching the first 10-15 mins in full to iron out the worst of the problems I still have. Done. It doesn't take a lot of time.

No I agree but at the same time the analysis tab has to be of some use or why does it exist. I personally don't have the time, what with job and a family to watch matches on full, rewind, rewatch again. And even if I did would I really be able to truly identify the problem. Maybe I would, and I have in the past, I wrote a post on making changes during the game based on what you are seeing.

But there are occasions where things crop up and it's hard to know why. Say the opposition much more possession, and you can't get hold of the ball, what do you do. Of course you could say push up and hassle, or flood the midfield. But just because you know that doesn't mean everyone will.

I just think there are quite a few high level generalisations you can make and ways of spotting potential problems that could make a very good post. But it would need to under the assumption that not everyone is Michael Cox

But all this comes back to context. Only you as the player have the access to the information that is relevant because it will be unique to your game. And in your example why would we say that? Maybe the reason is because you are already high up the pitch so are being too aggressive? Again it all comes back to needing to know the context, without knowing that you can't begin to fix the issues as you'll just be ******* in the wind. That's why if you have an issue you need to watch clips/games back to see the exact cause. Only you can do this and it can be a quick process or a long one depending on how much time you want to spend on it.

So it boils down to common sense and context.

But all this comes back to context.

Exactly this.

It's why many threads here which ask these questions get a fairy guarded response. The reason isn't that nobody knows; the reason is that nobody knows how things are panning out in your game. So, you could ask about why the AI has more possession, but there are hundred's of factors behind it that you could get a very generic response to, but it mightn't be applicable in your game.

I fully empathise about time/wife/kids/life as I'm in the same boat, as are many of us. However (and I keep saying this), you get out what you put in and if your game is suffering, then you benefit more from taking your foot of the accelerator and taking your time. Until recently, I was just focused on whizzing through seasons to see how far I got. That meant a more abbreviated highlights mode, and my results did slip a little as a consequence; no different to if Roberto Martinez sat blindfolded for 75% of a match.

It's like brazil 0 - 7 german in the latest world cup . There is an article about It that took my attention. What it's all about is, that football is something beyond statistic. The final score is, obviously Brazil was heavily defeated even for those who understand football so little. But statistically, they weren't that bad in fact, quite like a balanced match if we only cares about the statistic. So yeah, watching the game is the best way to identify problems. 1-2 games arent enought tho. If u feel bored imagine managers like guardiola mourinho etc are always watching the game 90 mins++ full and real time n still problems keep coming. Cant argue that for most ppl playing something more direct like those soccer games in consoles are far more interisting but if u truly loves football, this game is far more challenging n needs extra attention really...

As for analyzing match I believe each person has his own method. I cant say this that or those or these are the best for u. Some ppl learn by experiencing the match full time, some ppl learn by understanding a huge amount of information at once, some ppl can even tell what is wrong just by looking at the formation n strategy for seconds.

So it's fair to say first define what kind of ppl are you, what is your favourite way to learn then step up higher in that way. For what I heard, SI teamed up with a 3rd party for providing more detailed match analysis for fm16. Be patience haha

I'm fairly novice when it comes to Football in general. What has helped me is watching actual matches. Though the camera cuts drive me nuts sometimes, I now watch most matches with the sound off, so my "analysis" isn't influenced by the talking heads.

It has helped my FM enjoyment and results quite a bit, and though I might have a limited vocabulary I know what's going on in "my" terms if nothing else...

If anyone is interested I just posted an example of how I approach matches in my "Building a Club Identity: Pink Passion" thread.

Basically what I do is I make a quick analysis before the game based on formation, line-up and likely mentality of the opponents. From there I identify likely weaknesses and opportunities that I need to take into account or exploit to create an advantage. This gives me a quick and simple game plan which I can use when analyzing or watching the game. Having some key points to watch out for helps a lot and it immediately makes you pay attention to the key areas to make your game plan work.

This is simple things like exploiting space in front or behind the defense and making sure you deal with the opponents main threads properly.

I do feel somewhat for the OP. Whilst the mods and others have given some great advice, I too feel that sometimes I almost need a troubleshooting checklist in order for me to begin to get an idea of what I should be looking for.

@johnnyyakuza78

As well as the context point highlighted earlier, it's also easy to suffer from overcomplicating issues. I properly empathise with this as it took me a while to learn to slow down and take note of what I was seeing. Honestly, most of the problems I have had with the game are when I have been making it too complex.

The best advice I ever read was perhaps one of Cleon's threads about watching the game back. Remove the context of his game and you have a very simple way of looking at things. Where are the players positioned? What are the players doing? Try and steer clear of deep tactical jargon and theories, just write down (or type up) what you see and read it back. It really is that simple and doesn't even have to take that long. Maybe 30-45 mins on one game, checking out how your players interact with one another and you will have a solid understanding of your tactic.