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Can't Handle Narrow Formations


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Hello,

After a solid first season with Tottenham (finished 5th) I have realized that we struggle when facing narrow formations.

The teams that use these formations are mostly Liverpool and Man Utd, and every match against them is a total nightmare.

Last season we looked like this:

tiXpbvD.jpg

After strenghtning the squad a bit, this season we look like this:

bPibjlF.jpg

* I usually use Control mentality and no Shouts. I usually add shouts and change mentalities in-game.

The narrow formations (with the skin that shows roles):

LYyADOR.jpgIOOYE3V.jpg

It seems that they play an aggressive mentality, there are lots of runs into our penalty area. I've read somewhere that this year's ME has a weakness for many runs into the penalty area. Maybe this is the case?

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Hello,

After a solid first season with Tottenham (finished 5th) I have realized that we struggle when facing narrow formations.

The teams that use these formations are mostly Liverpool and Man Utd, and every match against them is a total nightmare.

Last season we looked like this:

tiXpbvD.jpg

After strenghtning the squad a bit, this season we look like this:

bPibjlF.jpg

* I usually use Control mentality and no Shouts. I usually add shouts and change mentalities in-game.

The narrow formations (with the skin that shows roles):

LYyADOR.jpgIOOYE3V.jpg

It seems that they play an aggressive mentality, there are lots of runs into our penalty area. I've read somewhere that this year's ME has a weakness for many runs into the penalty area. Maybe this is the case?

Throw the match engine issues out the window, this is a tactical issue more than anything else. I know because I've had the same problem, and I'm going to help you rectify it.

I'm currently in my 2nd season with Southampton and so I'm well aware of the Liverpool / United narrow formations. Granted, LVG retired and United are now using Frank De Boer's 4-3-3 but, I digress.

Start by looking at your own tactics

- First, you have a 4-3-3 shape utilizing wide forwards. I think the central midfield set up can be easily bypassed if a team is utilizing a narrow formation like Liverpool / United. The reason for this is relatively simple, as you have two players (CM and CM) who are looking to get forward, especially on the "control" mentality. That leaves your DMC alone to provide central cover for the back line. This is a bad thing against those narrow formations!

- Second. You say you're not using any team instructions. Why is this? It's not "bad" per se, but team instructions can be utilized in a way that negates the issues with a tactic from the get-go (or sometimes it does the opposite...) For example I play a 4-3-1-2 with Southampton, and it's critical that I instruct my team to push higher up. Why? Because I have two wing backs bombing up the pitch and the style we play incorporates a good bit of closing down. If we weren't keeping a high line, we could easily be caught out by a team who manages to bypass the press via a long ball, or whatever else. So you can see why team instructions can be a make-or-break type of thing.

What about the other team?

- It's true those teams will play aggressively, especially if you're a team that is a lower reputation and perhaps if you're on the road as well. What this essentially means though is you'll have space on the pitch, but you need to get the ball TO that space. When a team plays in an aggressive manner they're going to leave space somewhere, as you should know playing on a control mentality! I'm sure your team leaves a good deal of space between your GK and back 4 and as well as on the flanks between your wide forwards and fullbacks (possibly). How you utilize the space the opponent leaves, and work to deal with the space you leave open is all up to you. There is no right or wrong answer. You just need to understand that the space is what (mostly) matters. All team sports revolve around the utilization of space. Generally.

- Dont forget the flanks. A lot of times I think people see narrow formations and assume that a team will cause them problems through the middle. That isn't necessarily true! A lot of times teams will use narrow formations so they can send their wingbacks flying forward. That way they'll have more cover if the ball is lost. For example in my Southampton save we play a 4-3-1-2 this season which relies heavily on my central midfield 3 (BBM/DLP-D/BBM) to provide cover for my wingbacks (WB-A or CWB-A). I don't expect my midfield 3 to be goal scorers, and generally they aren't. If I were playing against myself I would try to attack myself down the flanks, because that central midfield block isn't easy to play through. So don't get so caught up in what formations look like off the screens. See how they're playing out, and go from there.

A little extra hint... Liverpool can be destroyed down the flanks if they haven't signed any proper wingbacks. ESPECIALLY if they play a formation like the one you posted above where they have their lone wide men positioned in wide midfield, rather than wide defense (or wingback). I beat them 5-2 at home countering into space they left open on the flanks (and also behind their back 3..)

Suggested Changes

If you have a stable tactic that works well at doing what you want it to do then changes might not even be needed. When you play a team that's giving you trouble I would think it's better to change in match than try to plan ahead of time by changing your tactic to begin with. Every team is different which is why a lot of people on here will smash Man City 5-0 and then lose their first UCL group match to some bulgarian team.

Some good ideas against narrow teams:

- watch the first 15 minutes on full highlights and see what's happening. Guessing isn't going to be very effective!

- if they rely on an AMC driving into the box, you might want to consider getting in his face and marking him out of the match

- if they rely on an AMC who is more of a sitter / playmaker you might want to drop deeper or close down less, this way they'll be denied the space to pass into that is so vital to their success.

- if they are whipping in crosses that you cannot defend you need to sure up your flanks defense. How? You can try to push higher and tackle harder. You could lower individual mentality of your wide defenders. Or you could look at your central midfielders and see if their roles/duties allow them to cover for your other wide men. If not, maybe make changes there. For example a CM-A is going to be awful at helping his fullback cover the flank. A player who will be willing to close down, without leaving too far from their area is a good choice. Support / Defend duties are best choices for that scenario.

- Where do they leave space? Like I said above look to see where the spaces are. When you see the space, figure out how to exploit it. Maybe direct passing down the flanks? Maybe you want to go route one and bypass midfield? Maybe you think you can safely play shorter passes and draw them out further. Etc etc etc.

I hope this helps you!

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The Liverpool one is easy to nullify. I've drawn 0-0 and won 3-2 against them, by switching to a 5-4-1. I found the DM player can get pulled out of position and that'll cause a CB to step up, which is where the AM-FC-FC triangle will hurt the most. A flat back five nullifies this problem, though I also went super-defensive on the flanks by pulling back the inside-forwards. A direct game to the wide areas is likely to cause them problems, especially if you have fast players. I also switch the fullbacks to a support duty, mostly because Liverpool have very quick players on the wings, and as the middle is overloaded I don't want a centreback or centre midfielder getting dragged out wide.

Of course, this isn't the only way to nullify them, it will very much depend on the squad they put out and how they decide to go about things.

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The Liverpool one is easy to nullify. I've drawn 0-0 and won 3-2 against them, by switching to a 5-4-1. I found the DM player can get pulled out of position and that'll cause a CB to step up, which is where the AM-FC-FC triangle will hurt the most. A flat back five nullifies this problem, though I also went super-defensive on the flanks by pulling back the inside-forwards. A direct game to the wide areas is likely to cause them problems, especially if you have fast players. I also switch the fullbacks to a support duty, mostly because Liverpool have very quick players on the wings, and as the middle is overloaded I don't want a centreback or centre midfielder getting dragged out wide.

Of course, this isn't the only way to nullify them, it will very much depend on the squad they put out and how they decide to go about things.

Indeed because the way I played them was very different! My approach was this.....

I knew the AMC-STC-STC triangle was a problem, but that they might also switch to AMC-AMC-STC. I didn't want to be overly reactive and stray too far from my principles so my idea was to change my set up a bit so that is was more defensively solid, without allowing them too much space. Before that match we had been using a halfback to drop between 2 standard CD's which allowed me to use WB-A's on each side. Against Liverpool (after watching a bit) I changed the set up to something like.. WB-Sx2 CD-Dx2 and ANC-D. That was the "defense" but the real killer was a raumdeuter and inside forward at AMLR which caused Liverpool all sorts of trouble. Counter mentality + close down less + pass into space and we scored 5. Could have scored more if we finished a better % of our chances created.

There's many ways to skin a cat in FM. :p

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I solved this **** by playing higher up the pitch using 4-1-2-2-1 DM Wide, I meant much higher, with attacking mentality (I usually use Standart/counter). Since both liverpool and United are favouring quick attack focused on certain area this ultra-high defensive line somehow prevented their style to shine since they are also using high defensive line (for home game). but I must keep aware when they will play deeper, so my high pressing wont backfire. i lost 6-1 at old trafford n I cant forget that nightmare truly :seagull:

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I solved this **** by playing higher up the pitch using 4-1-2-2-1 DM Wide, I meant much higher, with attacking mentality (I usually use Standart/counter). Since both liverpool and United are favouring quick attack focused on certain area this ultra-high defensive line somehow prevented their style to shine since they are also using high defensive line (for home game). but I must keep aware when they will play deeper, so my high pressing wont backfire. i lost 6-1 at old trafford n I cant forget that nightmare truly :seagull:

This isn't really sound advice. If you raise the defensive line + raise the mentality that high you're literally begging the other team to hit you with a through ball. I can't emphasize enough how silly playing this way is unless you do some nasty things like:

literally hacking the game to make the halfback available in the strikers position. Which you're probably getting reported for lol.

But yeah, this advice is not good. High defensive lines + high mentalities against teams that play like United/Liverpool in the first year or two is suicidal. Any team with a spec of passing ability will rip you apart.

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This isn't really sound advice. If you raise the defensive line + raise the mentality that high you're literally begging the other team to hit you with a through ball. I can't emphasize enough how silly playing this way is unless you do some nasty things like:

literally hacking the game to make the halfback available in the strikers position. Which you're probably getting reported for lol.

But yeah, this advice is not good. High defensive lines + high mentalities against teams that play like United/Liverpool in the first year or two is suicidal. Any team with a spec of passing ability will rip you apart.

No I didnt cheat back then. It was 2 seasons ago

This is just my opinion but not all ppl are willing to change their playstyle drastically just because they face a superior side. Since I've been using slow possession for long my team isn't good playing with direct, fast football, or packing many players behind. First 2 seasons I tried those method mentioned above, wasn't a good result. At the third season I tried the exact opposite by challenging them by risking lot of space behind then turned out I won, though yeah it was close calls (4-3 vs liverpool, 3-2 vs united). For the match again liverpool I switched to counter mentality at 2nd half since they also lower their defensive line. So what I meant is u don't use a high n risky defensive line from the beginning till the end of match, but adapt with the situation but no need to play way too different with your original playstyle (if u're playing short passes)

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Its a bit easy to handle narrow formations. I would go with a deep defensive line and hit him on the break. Something like Attacking mentality + drop deeper + higher tempo/more direct + play wider/exploit the flanks + run at defense . You can catch fullbacks out of position with this game along with using some pacy wingers as well.

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against liverpool or more accurately rodgers, either u give them time with the ball but denying their space, or playing high up the pitch n try to limit their time with the ball. I'd like to say it is hard to keep possession agaisnt liverpool. using 4-1-2-2-1 actually a disavantage since their natural formation is outnumbering 4-1-2-2-1

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/433242-The-Aranycsapat-Mimicking-the-Magic-Magyars-in-Football-Manager-2015?p=10473939&viewfull=1#post10473939

I was using 4-4-2, flexible and Standart. u can see my defender was playing high n near the half line. it was a 2-1 loss but we didnt lost so bad like the first 2 seasons since many youngsters were playing there, not to mention it was an away game. albeit there were only 4 midfielders but the back 4 and 4 midfielders block became a double wall compressing liverpool's space n time also covering both flanks. the reason why I used standart mentality, so the 4 midfielders would help to close down earlier. but in other match using 4-1-2-2-1 i used an attacking mentality with high D-Line

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