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dortmund concede everything


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im in my 4th season right now and im playing with the same tactic since the beginning.i didnt want to change anything because i dominate %90 of the games we play,the rest %10 is usually ucl.my main objective is the play with youngsters,sell them with high prices,replace them with youngs again.with this objective i know with a team like bayern they're more likely to become champion but i feel like game doesnt want me to be successful.first of all,no matter which team i play with my opposition has insane amount of percentage of scoring chances.RTHerrington told me that i was just moaning and closed my earlier thread.so this is new one here is my tactic:

tactic_zps5ecxqlmv.png

as usual i had bad games,i had poor performances and i lost them all as expected,i cant earn a single point from a bad performance,but i manage to concede every time game shows opposition attacks.my keeper doesnt save anything.im not concerned about championship at all but the amount of points i got stolen is too much every year.if you think i have to change something on tactic,im glad to hear your helps.finally,i dont know how to share my save,if you tell me how to upload it on this forum ill be glad to share and you can check that im not lying.

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this is the last game of the 1st season,we were 3 points behind but we won against bayern at 33rd week,so i was sure about a victory against freiburg.you can lose last game,that can happen to anybody but with this game i thought game didnt want me to win.

freiburg_zpspmc4ll1d.png

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i just shared 2 games in 3 season.but i want to tell you once more,im not concerned about winning games,im ok with relegation but my concern is WHY CANT MY PLAYERS PLAY LIKE OPPOSITION DO? I'VE NEVER HAD A GAME WHICH WE SCORED EVERY SHOT ON TARGET OR MY KEEPER SAVED 12 OUT OF 15 SHOTS ON TARGETS. i can share my save with you to look at my all games just tell me how can i upload it or give me any tactical advice

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Your tactic is too attacking imo. If you want to use 2 fullbacks who are encourage to attack abit more, then use 2 holding midfielders(eg: DLP-S and CM-D or DLP-S and DLP-D). Alternatively, if you want to use a CM as a more attacking option(eg, RPM or BBM) then the fullback behind him should be a more conservative role(FB-S) to cover him.

Your control strategy is already on mid to above average closing down. With the 2 additional shouts added, your closing down could be near to the max. You could easily be caught out by pacy players.

Maybe you like to share what kind of goals do you concede? Crosses, set pieces, pks or etc?

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From the thread below, your defenders are likely to be quite attacking minded because of the very fluid mentality setting too.

In order to build the rest of the tactic from here it is important to understand what this selection means:

All players have the same mentality (set by your Mentality setting)

Increased creative freedom across the team

Point one is particularly important. All players have the same mentality. If you select attacking, your defenders have attacking mentality. if you select Defensive / Counter, your strikers have a low mentality.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/431798-Universality-In-Football-Manager-2015-%28Very-Fluid%29

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Your tactic is too attacking imo. If you want to use 2 fullbacks who are encourage to attack abit more, then use 2 holding midfielders(eg: DLP-S and CM-D or DLP-S and DLP-D). Alternatively, if you want to use a CM as a more attacking option(eg, RPM or BBM) then the fullback behind him should be a more conservative role(FB-S) to cover him.

Your control strategy is already on mid to above average closing down. With the 2 additional shouts added, your closing down could be near to the max. You could easily be caught out by pacy players.

Maybe you like to share what kind of goals do you concede? Crosses, set pieces, pks or etc?

i concede mostly from long balls,direct passing 2v2 situations and sometimes my defenders jump but cant hit the header and give the opposition 1v1,mostly this kind of situations.

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Think about how you want to play. Then, from the shouts that you choose, what do those shouts actually do to your players on the pitch?

For example - "Retain Possession" is not a magic button you press if you want to dominate possession. Essentially all it does is shorten passing length and lower tempo. You then add on "Shorter Passing", which also shortens passing length and lowers the tempo. Is that what you want?

You instruct your back line to "Push Higher Up". Your Control mentality already has a fairly high defensive line, so how will you manage the large space that you now have between your goalkeeper and defenders to help prevent pacey forwards exploiting it?

And then looking at your defensive shape, what impact will telling your team to "Close Down More", "Get Stuck In" and "Use Tighter Marking" have? Is it ok for your central defenders (for example) to close down opposition attackers to that extent, especially if there is already a large gap behind them? Will tighter marking or players going to ground in the tackle help you maintain your team's defensive integrity, especially when combined with your other shouts?

I'm not sure you understand the implications of choosing the shouts that you have, which is probably why you get the issues you are seeing. Have a read of some of the guides on here, or from other sources - they'll really help :).

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we make this kind of mistakes at least 10 times a season...im getting annoyed,this is what makes you lose self control and do stupid things in the game.im *+^"ing fed up with this situations.no matter how good you play,how good you shape your team you concede in the most stupid way.

leverkusen_zps6lajweay.png

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Your team is keeping such a high d-line. Unless you change the way you defend, it's unlikely stop all these over the top balls.

The shout get stuck in can help you win the ball early but also consider if your players miss the tackle. It will allow opposition to run at your defence or make a defence splitting pass.

Going back to your attack, who are your creators? It seems you want everyone wants to get into the box to be a scorer. The 2 IFs, AMC(att), BBM and AF. I will consider making swapping 1 IF to be a creator(winger). Another change I will consider is making the AF into a support role striker. When your striker drops deep, opposition defenders will have to consider whether to follow him. This will open up space for your AMC and IF to attack from deep.

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I think the thing to remember is that every formation or tactic has a weakness and a vulnerability.

You push up high and close down a lot, which is great against a lot of sides. However it has a weakness, direct balls and pacey forwards can beat your press and high line and leave you looking silly.

I've started to see shouts in the way I think they were intended, as situational game changers rather than overall team instructions. I set the formation and the roles and the mentality, maybe a couple of shouts to give my team it's flavour and then any other shouts are based on how the game is going and who I'm playing. I think that's a better system

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I've started to see shouts in the way I think they were intended, as situational game changers rather than overall team instructions. I set the formation and the roles and the mentality, maybe a couple of shouts to give my team it's flavour and then any other shouts are based on how the game is going and who I'm playing. I think that's a better system

That is precisely what people need to be doing :thup:

This tactic has inherent flaws in the sense that it is overly attacking. Even if we ignore that, I don't get any sense that the OP ever changes anything from match to match? That's where johnnyyakuza78's post is so relevant - judge each match on its merits.

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I think though there have been a few posts recently where people have set up tactics and not had to make changes and its been very successful. At times I've become frustrated when I haven't had as good results doing the same thing.

However I do think it's important to analyse what is happening in a match and who you are playing and adjust accordingly. If I'm an underdog then trying to play attacking possession football will probably kill me.

And the most common post here is big teams getting beaten by smaller teams , usually because they set up so attacking that they get creamed on the counter attack.

So being tactically flexible is a very important skill I think

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Your team is keeping such a high d-line. Unless you change the way you defend, it's unlikely stop all these over the top balls.

The shout get stuck in can help you win the ball early but also consider if your players miss the tackle. It will allow opposition to run at your defence or make a defence splitting pass.

Going back to your attack, who are your creators? It seems you want everyone wants to get into the box to be a scorer. The 2 IFs, AMC(att), BBM and AF. I will consider making swapping 1 IF to be a creator(winger). Another change I will consider is making the AF into a support role striker. When your striker drops deep, opposition defenders will have to consider whether to follow him. This will open up space for your AMC and IF to attack from deep.

in defence you may be right,but without push higher up i feel like we let them come to midfield easily i dont want that.while attacking we dont have much problem actually,we create enough chances every game but although we are the most scoring team every year we miss too much.we miss too much that costs us championships.

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OP You gotta realize that the 4-2-3-1 formation you're using is really really vulnerable. Why? Think about it.. Look at the positions of your players on the tactics board (remember this is the DEFENSIVE shape of your team!!) You have 5 players in the attacking midfield + striker zone. That's half of your outfield players. So, common sense, you're going to need to provide a solid base for them to work off of. Otherwise, you'll be prone to getting smashed on the counter ESPECIALLY if you don't have a world beating team.

Think of it this way: the 4-2-3-1 in real life is a formation that allows managers to utilize attacking-minded wide defenders. To do this, you need cover. So 99% of the time you'll find 2 holding central midfield players. One of the two may move a little bit, but generally they're 2 holding players. And it makes sense when you consider the fact that you already have 5 guys ahead of them in attacking positions.

So think about those things, and think about the gaps that appear naturally in your shape. Behind the AMLR, behind the CM's, and the space between your team and your GK.

If you're dead-set on making a 4-2-3-1 work you'll need to change the following...

- 2 holding players in the middle. OR if you really don't want to do that for some reason, make the AMC a supporting player who will contribute to defending. This isn't ideal (because if you're playing 4-2-3-1 you probably didn't want him to be a big defensive contributor to begin with) but it will help.

- Remove "play out of defense." Why do you have this on? On a higher mentality like Control defenders will pass shorter by default. By selecting this you're basically setting them to pass EXTREMELY short which can have consequences. It's total overkill in this case, and it probably explains why you've conceded goals like the one you showed us above where they pressed your back 4, intercepted a pass, and scored.

- use a sweeper keeper. This is common sense if you're playing a high block and you have nobody in defensive midfield, right?

- try to close the gap between your CD's and CM's. There's a few options here: either push higher up or include a CD-X in your tactic. That way you'll either be playing more compact, or you'll have someone stepping out to close down that space quickly. I wouldn't combine both options here, pick one. IF you choose to push higher, you will be even more exposed to balls in behind so obviously the sweeper keeper is important. But, like I said, it's a trade off and this will help close the gap between your CM and CD.

- The flanks look fine to me but if you decide to use 2 holding CM's, consider using 2 attacking wide defenders. That'll help give your team more bite in attack, and defensively you can still be solid.

good luck.

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If you're dead-set on making a 4-2-3-1 work you'll need to change the following...

- 2 holding players in the middle. OR if you really don't want to do that for some reason, make the AMC a supporting player who will contribute to defending. This isn't ideal (because if you're playing 4-2-3-1 you probably didn't want him to be a big defensive contributor to begin with) but it will help.

- Remove "play out of defense." Why do you have this on? On a higher mentality like Control defenders will pass shorter by default. By selecting this you're basically setting them to pass EXTREMELY short which can have consequences. It's total overkill in this case, and it probably explains why you've conceded goals like the one you showed us above where they pressed your back 4, intercepted a pass, and scored.

- use a sweeper keeper. This is common sense if you're playing a high block and you have nobody in defensive midfield, right?

- try to close the gap between your CD's and CM's. There's a few options here: either push higher up or include a CD-X in your tactic. That way you'll either be playing more compact, or you'll have someone stepping out to close down that space quickly. I wouldn't combine both options here, pick one. IF you choose to push higher, you will be even more exposed to balls in behind so obviously the sweeper keeper is important. But, like I said, it's a trade off and this will help close the gap between your CM and CD.

- The flanks look fine to me but if you decide to use 2 holding CM's, consider using 2 attacking wide defenders. That'll help give your team more bite in attack, and defensively you can still be solid.

good luck.

first of all thank you for your all advices,every single one of them.

1- 2 holding mid you say,cm/d is holding good i think so i think i should switch b2b.is it ok to switch dlp/s or should i just make it cm/s?

2- i made play out of defense because i dont want my defenders to make long passes,my teams height is not enough for headers on offense.i wanted to stop it,thats why i picked play out of defence.

3- sk makes long balls to so same reason as 2,i didnt make it.do you still suggest sk,if so sk/a or sk/s ?

4- i prefer push higher up instead of cd/x so sk is neccessary i guess.same question tho sk/s or sk/a?(i dont see any difference on the pitch)

5-i think flanks doing great no need to change them.

thank you again.

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I havent been on here for a long time to post but felt i needed to encourage OP here. My system is virtually identical to yours and the only differences from my shape and roles have been pointed out to you already i.e. very fluid and high line and retain possession and control system. I play with a fluid philosophy on standard with push higher up. I see the retain possession TI as an in-match tool rather than as a way to set up my team.

My Everton save has been one of my best ever in FM and is based on this system. Maybe I have my ideas clearer in my head than you do at the moment but jig around and things will fall in place.

When I get a chance ill write an update on my previous post about my everton save. Although I was a bit gutted to read about the ME flaw in that it cant deal with so many attacking players - i thought i was a tactical genius. But its a fun, dominating system with no defensive frailties. I conceded 14 over a whole EPL season.

So keep at it OP.

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Just wanted to say that having someone like Bender as your holding midfielder is bit risky as he's a player with very high aggression; he's going to susceptible to being caught out of position because he's going to chase players on the ball. It's almost as if you are playing with 2 BWMs and that's always going to cause you problems.

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Just wanted to say that having someone like Bender as your holding midfielder is bit risky as he's a player with very high aggression; he's going to susceptible to being caught out of position because he's going to chase players on the ball. It's almost as if you are playing with 2 BWMs and that's always going to cause you problems.

i agree,he has good attribute rates but he is bad in the pitch.trying to bring prowse as replacement

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first of all thank you for your all advices,every single one of them.

1- 2 holding mid you say,cm/d is holding good i think so i think i should switch b2b.is it ok to switch dlp/s or should i just make it cm/s?

2- i made play out of defense because i dont want my defenders to make long passes,my teams height is not enough for headers on offense.i wanted to stop it,thats why i picked play out of defence.

3- sk makes long balls to so same reason as 2,i didnt make it.do you still suggest sk,if so sk/a or sk/s ?

4- i prefer push higher up instead of cd/x so sk is neccessary i guess.same question tho sk/s or sk/a?(i dont see any difference on the pitch)

5-i think flanks doing great no need to change them.

thank you again.

1. CM-S isn't a holding player. DLP-S is sort of a holding player, but DLP-D / CM-D are your main holding players in the CM strata.

2. I understand. But you have to realize that the team mentality you set already tells defenders to pass shorter. You won't see them hoofing the ball. You don't need this instruction, it's actually going to hurt your buildup play given the style you're clearly trying to play.

3. Don't worry about that. You can set the GK to distribute any way you like under his player instructions. SK-D or SK-S would work fine. I don't think SK-A is a wise choice.

4. Okay, sounds like you know what you need here

5. Agreed

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1. CM-S isn't a holding player. DLP-S is sort of a holding player, but DLP-D / CM-D are your main holding players in the CM strata.

2. I understand. But you have to realize that the team mentality you set already tells defenders to pass shorter. You won't see them hoofing the ball. You don't need this instruction, it's actually going to hurt your buildup play given the style you're clearly trying to play.

3. Don't worry about that. You can set the GK to distribute any way you like under his player instructions. SK-D or SK-S would work fine. I don't think SK-A is a wise choice.

4. Okay, sounds like you know what you need here

5. Agreed

so with everything you have suggested,i've came up with this one

4231_zps1vjvegq7.png

i just have 3 TIs now im not worried about that but i have 2 midfielders with D duty and a AM with A duty.arent they too seperated now? does winger/s enough for 2 defend duty?

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i agree,he has good attribute rates but he is bad in the pitch.trying to bring prowse as replacement

Oh I'm not suggesting you replace him, I'm just saying if you are going to play him, you need to play someone next to him who is going to be more disciplined and keep their position.

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