Completely unbelievable results

Could someone please explain to me how the most ridiculous results I've ever seen in football are commonplace in this game. I'm not talking unlikely results. I'm talking statistically impossible results. I've no problem with flukes but if a developer could please explain how a man utd team jammed full of amazing players can have 47 shots against Watford over 2 games of a capital one cup semi final and lose. Watford had 6 in total. That's just one example. I have taken screenshots to prove my point.

It has nothing to do with tactics. I'm certain there's a code written into the game to throw out random results but there's no reasoning to it. It's statistically impossible. If you can please find for me the last time there was premier League game between utd and and Chelsea ended up 0-0 despite utd having 27 shots compared to Chelsea 7. I'm guessing never. I just want an explanation . I've paid money for this game and expect some sort realism. Just a touch. Someone just be honest and say it's rigged.

There's no code to prevent you from winning. It isn't rigged. It's most likely tactical, but other factors could make the situation worse, like a player or players having an off day. Screenshots won't help. Until you post information, like your complete tactical setup and even PKMs of these matches, you cannot be helped.

Take a look at this, something I wrote about someone in a similar situation: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391271-FM-is-Rigged!

You think sometning like this?

Yeah, that is worst part of this game. I can understand that is happening in one or two games in season but every third game, that is big problem.

I just watch how their goalkeepers save impossible shots, and then they have one stupid shot and win. Happening all the time. That is biggest issue with this game for me and if they improve that in FM 2016 it will be easily best fm ever.

You think sometning like this?

Yeah, that is worst part of this game. I can understand that is happening in one or two games in season but every third game, that is big problem.

I just watch how their goalkeepers save impossible shots, and then they have one stupid shot and win. Happening all the time. That is biggest issue with this game for me and if they improve that in FM 2016 it will be easily best fm ever.

Simple explanation for this though. They score early and park the bus. You struggle to break them down.

As ever, there's little point in only posting match stats. It needs actual context around it.

You think sometning like this?

Yeah, that is worst part of this game. I can understand that is happening in one or two games in season but every third game, that is big problem.

I just watch how their goalkeepers save impossible shots, and then they have one stupid shot and win. Happening all the time. That is biggest issue with this game for me and if they improve that in FM 2016 it will be easily best fm ever.

If its happening to you every third game then you need to be looking at your tactics tbh.

There have been plenty of threads this year on the subject, sure there are certain specific situations that cause it within FM but blaming FM is the easy way out. You have to look at your approach to the match and what you are doing that makes that situation worse.

Shots & possession don't win games, goals do. They scored, you didn't.

EDIT

You could also upload either the PKM or the save and I would happily look at the match and give my opinion on what happened.

I have many screenshots like this. I said that i can understand sometimes results like this happen, but there is too much of it. People would not complain about it if that is not happening all the time.

I have read every thread here how to set up tactics and other, tried many tactics and like this guy said It has nothing to do with tactics..

I don't want to argue, you know FM much better then me, but i know what i see and that is thing which ruin most of games for me. But anyways, i play fm 2015 more then any other version, great game, but this simply must be improved. I don't have intention to talk bad about game, just i hope guys from SI can see this problem. After 16 years of playing i can't belive i play now more then ever and i just wish they fix this so i can play even more.

Before Cougar got there, I was about to post that if it's happening every 3rd game or so, surely your first point of call would be looking at your tactics.

Number of shots is only one indicator of how you are doing, possession is another, clear cut chances another, but even these don't paint the whole picture... where are the majority of your shots coming from? Who's getting all the shots in? midfielders from 30 yards out or strikers from impossible angles?

This should be the first point of call not blaming your tools and calling the game rigged.

It's a good job that you do not wish to argue because the issue is a tactical one so your position in any argument would be the incorrect one.

When you are watching a match & can see things are not going your way in front of goal do you make changes to improve the quality of chances that are being created?

I tried to answer but sorry, i have trouble writing detailed answers in English. So i give up

I want someone to explain how this result could happen, FM is so damn unrealistic sometimes....

This would never happen in real life...... Oh!

I tried to answer but sorry, i have trouble writing detailed answers in English. So i give up

Sometimes the game likes to make you suffer, why expect to win all the time, takes the fun out of it, losing a semi or final to unfortunate results just thrives you on to win the next one, it makes it all the more sweeter, FM no fun when u win every game and every title every year.

I have many screenshots like this. I said that i can understand sometimes results like this happen, but there is too much of it. People would not complain about it if that is not happening all the time.

You can have as many screenshots as you want and people can complain as much as they want, it doesn't make them right. In fact it makes them equally wrong.

I have read every thread here how to set up tactics and other, tried many tactics and like this guy said It has nothing to do with tactics..

You might have read them but you clearly haven't understood them.

Everything that happens during a match has been influenced by tactics, therefore to say it has nothing to do with tactics is one of the worst comments you could make and it couldn't be more wrong.

I don't want to argue, you know FM much better then me, but i know what i see and that is thing which ruin most of games for me. But anyways, i play fm 2015 more then any other version, great game, but this simply must be improved. I don't have intention to talk bad about game, just i hope guys from SI can see this problem. After 16 years of playing i can't belive i play now more then ever and i just wish they fix this so i can play even more.

So that leaves you with a choice.

You can either keep banging your head against the wall and insisting that you are doing nothing wrong or you can do what some other users have done this year and accept you could be doing some things better.

I tried to answer but sorry, i have trouble writing detailed answers in English. So i give up

You don't even need to. The PKM and a screenshot of your tactic is enough.

I will try to answer when i get home. So i can post screenshots and tactics, i am at work now. Yeah box to box , but how many times in season small team like mk dons win against big time like this? One, maybe. But in fm 2015 you will see that much more.

Sometimes the game likes to make you suffer, why expect to win all the time, takes the fun out of it, losing a semi or final to unfortunate results just thrives you on to win the next one, it makes it all the more sweeter, FM no fun when u win every game and every title every year.

Except it doesn't.

The ME is completely impartial to the point of not even knowing if its an AI manager or human manager giving the instructions.

Except it doesn't.

The ME is completely impartial to the point of not even knowing if its an AI manager or human manager giving the instructions.

lol i didnt say the match engine knows if its human or ai managers, the point is every team prob suffered during the campaigne to some unlucky result on another day they would have won 5-0, some games bad things happen, you know like red cards and injuries and just damn right poor performances from so called world class players, believe me FM makes every hardcore fan suffer and if you have never suffered in fm then you havent lived pal.

Not every game in fm can be solved tactically, you are deluded to think such a thing if you do, i consider myself a expert at these games, i have a whole list of achivements on this game that have no intention of going into, but sometimes you just have to accept the better team won or you got robbed, just like in real football.

I will try to answer when i get home. So i can post screenshots and tactics, i am at work now. Yeah box to box , but how many times in season small team like mk dons win against big time like this? One, maybe. But in fm 2015 you will see that much more.

Once maybe, maybe more, I don't know as I didn't follow their season.

How about Bradford City, in the last few seasons, a League 2, then promoted to League 1, have in recent seasons taken out Arsenal, Wigan(Prem club at the time) and Aston Villa(over two legs), and last season alone, beating Leeds, Millwall, Chelsea and Sunderland, also gaining draws against Millwall and Reading. All higher league clubs.

Weird things happen in football. Often. It's one of the reasons we love it.

Yeah, in cups maybe where Chelsea have no that much motivation to win. This game with Perugia was my chance to get on 1st place on league table. And, also first game with Perugia they had 1 shot i had 17 and it was 1:1 result. That is no reason why we love it that is reason why i broke my keyboard. But ok, i will post everything when i get home from work

Yeah, in cups maybe where Chelsea have no that much motivation to win.

Heh, shifting goalposts.

EDIT: Also, in what world would Chelsea not be motivated to win the FA Cup?

This game with Perugia was my chance to get on 1st place on league table.

This doesn't give you a divine right to win.

And, also first game with Perugia they had 1 shot i had 17 and it was 1:1 result. That is no reason why we love it that is reason why i broke my keyboard. But ok, i will post everything when i get home from work

Seems like you struggle to break down teams playing defensively. This isn't an issue with the game.

Also, you can have 100 shots, and it's pointless if they're not good shots or chances.

Not every game in fm can be solved tactically, you are deluded to think such a thing if you do, i consider myself a expert at these games, i have a whole list of achivements on this game that have no intention of going into, but sometimes you just have to accept the better team won or you got robbed, just like in real football.

You consider yourself an expert?

Yeah, I won't sidetrack the thread by going into that.

Just to be clear though by tactics we generally mean every input that goes into the ME which includes formation, roles, duties, TIs, PIs, OIs, your choice of players and their attributes (both hidden and not), team talks & media comments.

A match starts with the post match team talk from the previous match. Before that and even up to the point of selecting your team every match is winnable with the right choices and can be "solved tactically" as you put it.

Once in a match where bad choices have been made it gets a lot more difficult and your options for turning a bad match round are much more limited. Is it always possible to turn a match around? depends on the situation, the time in the match and what options you have left. As you say just like real football sometimes you can and other times you can't.

You'll notice how you very, very rarely see screenshots of this happening the other way around.

There's probably a very good reason for that...

An FM'ers natural inclination is towards more attacking systems that overload the opposition in the final third.

Could someone please explain to me how the most ridiculous results I've ever seen in football are commonplace in this game. I'm not talking unlikely results. I'm talking statistically impossible results. I've no problem with flukes but if a developer could please explain how a man utd team jammed full of amazing players can have 47 shots against Watford over 2 games of a capital one cup semi final and lose. Watford had 6 in total. That's just one example. I have taken screenshots to prove my point.

It has nothing to do with tactics. I'm certain there's a code written into the game to throw out random results but there's no reasoning to it. It's statistically impossible. If you can please find for me the last time there was premier League game between utd and and Chelsea ended up 0-0 despite utd having 27 shots compared to Chelsea 7. I'm guessing never. I just want an explanation . I've paid money for this game and expect some sort realism. Just a touch. Someone just be honest and say it's rigged.

While I don't share your opinion that the game is rigged I can certainly understand the frustration with the game. After appearing to thoroughly dominate the opponent and then to lose, well it is a hard pill to swallow. The frustration you are feeling is not down to your tactic being "wrong" (there is no such thing) it is down to the inability of the game to communicate effectively through the match stats the full picture which is why you shouldn't be looking at those stats as an indication of your teams performance. The match stats can also be rather counter-intuitive and fool players into believing something which isn't true.

For example in that Atalanta - Perugia game posted by Marko, while on the face of it based on the stats it appears you have been unlucky, the truth is your team has put in a dreadful performance. If I were their manager I'd be furious to have had so many shots and my players not score. This is where it is counter-intuitive as in reality if I'm at an archery range and have one bow my chances of hitting the bullseye are low but if I have 22 bows you would expect my chances to increase which follows logic but in the match stats this could be the case and I still end up losing.

My suggestion to you would be to have a plan B when plan A isn't working and take the match stats with a pinch of salt. The only true way to determine if your team is performing well is to look at the player body language and match rating. If you see a lot of your players frustrated you need to change things up a bit and that doesn't mean wholesale rewriting of the tactic but perhaps something as simple as dropping deeper, lowering the tempo or changing a player role. That way you keep the familiarity up and change the dynamic. You have to allow teams out to create the space in which you attack, slamming your head against a brick wall for 90 minutes won't work.

An FM'ers natural inclination is towards more attacking systems that overload the opposition in the final third.

That and that they're hardly going to complain when the "unbelievable" is to their benefit. Then it's just excellent management.

My current wierd run is that the opposing goalkeeper get 8+ scores and man of the match in most game, no matter what team I play against.

It seem to have started after Chelsea super goalkeeper had a match of a lifetime against us and now most goalkeepers has a run of good luck against us.

8.5 score by some half star Chinese goalkeeper, in a tour pre-season match is the latest nutty example.

This is a same club run 8.5 seasons of unremarkable opposing goalkeepers, even if the league has De Gea and Chelsea's guy I can never spell and then that one position get consistently good performances every game and it's the start of pre-season on year 10.

While I don't share your opinion that the game is rigged I can certainly understand the frustration with the game. After appearing to thoroughly dominate the opponent and then to lose, well it is a hard pill to swallow. The frustration you are feeling is not down to your tactic being "wrong" (there is no such thing)

I think perhaps you have badly worded your post but tactics can most definitely be "wrong" for a given situation.

The options for tactics is virtually limitless and for any given situation you can make good choices & bad choices, some have a minor effect others more extreme but the idea that a tactic can't be wrong is not correct.

it is down to the inability of the game to communicate effectively through the match stats the full picture which is why you shouldn't be looking at those stats as an indication of your teams performance. The match stats can also be rather counter-intuitive and fool players into believing something which isn't true.

The game isn't at fault here and I don't see an issue in it communicating the stats.

The game is providing you with the detail from the match, its up to you as the user to put it into context and be able to evaluate it in a way that is useful.

This is no different to how any stats information is provided IRL for football matches.

The fact that the current AI could never come up with this solution to a problem of creating space during a match is why scores like those posted above are very rare for me

I think perhaps you have badly worded your post but tactics can most definitely be "wrong" for a given situation.

The options for tactics is virtually limitless and for any given situation you can make good choices & bad choices, some have a minor effect others more extreme but the idea that a tactic can't be wrong is not correct.

The game isn't at fault here and I don't see an issue in it communicating the stats.

The game is providing you with the detail from the match, its up to you as the user to put it into context and be able to evaluate it in a way that is useful.

This is no different to how any stats information is provided IRL for football matches.

I'll have to disagree with the assessment that a tactic can be "wrong" because on the flip side there is no "right" tactic. A tactic can be sub-optimal at generating what the player wants because of poor choices but it can't be "wrong". This is mainly a matter of semantics anyway and usually the problem lies with players not really understanding what their tactic does, after all, how do you begin to optimize when you have no clear vision of how the tactic works in the first place?

I don't believe I implied that the game was at fault moreover I was trying to make the point that perhaps the fault lies with the player reading too much into stats which if taken in isolation to determine how well a team has performed was never going to provide a satisfactory way to analyze performances. Besides there are flaws in the match stats especially with regards to the Clear Cut Chances stat considering it's entirely subjective.

You'll notice how you very, very rarely see screenshots of this happening the other way around.

There's probably a very good reason for that...

I started a thread but because I gave it the title were Bristol City robbed I think my question was taken more seriously than I meant it, I have had many results that could/would be classed jammy.

I also made another thread about FM luck where I beat Man City thanks to a crazy own goal.

Anyway I can understand the frustration felt by others because I have had many of those games as well.

If he posts the PKM someone will point out the flaws and we can all stop arguing and debating. It should be a rule on this forum that these types of posts require a pkm, like the data issues forum requires a certain level of detail.

We shouldn't enforce that here, but information/detail is needed to give answers to either Marko or the OP. If either of you have questions, provide the info asked for (complete tactical setup, either typing it out or screenshots, and a PKM) and the Tactics forum can show you what actually happened. The game isn't rigged.

Please post these questions and info in a new thread in the Tactics Forum if you're still keen for answers.

On 04/09/2015 at 09:53, Marko1989 said:

I have many screenshots like this. I said that i can understand sometimes results like this happen, but there is too much of it. People would not complain about it if that is not happening all the time.

I have read every thread here how to set up tactics and other, tried many tactics and like this guy said It has nothing to do with tactics..

I don't want to argue, you know FM much better then me, but i know what i see and that is thing which ruin most of games for me. But anyways, i play fm 2015 more then any other version, great game, but this simply must be improved. I don't have intention to talk bad about game, just i hope guys from SI can see this problem. After 16 years of playing i can't belive i play now more then ever and i just wish they fix this so i can play even more.

Someone read Roy of the Rovers, or watched the Wimbledon vs Liverpool '88 FA Cup final and thought "wow, THAT's what football's really like!"

In the real world, the better team wins more often than not, and the team that has 5 as many shots on goal wins most of the time.

5 hours ago, SJNM said:

In the real world, the better team wins more often than not, and the team that has 5 as many shots on goal wins most of the time.

Any statistics to back your claims here? These two statements are typical statements made by people that thinks they know a lot when in fact they are totally wrong.

1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

Any statistics to back your claims here? These two statements are typical statements made by people that thinks they know a lot when in fact they are totally wrong.

I know it's old, but some statistics (it's the last time I remember something like this being posted) for FM13 : 

Quote

Thanks to OPTA stats and The Guardian, we have exact knowledge of how often a team wins when having more possession (57%) and more shots (71%). Even if you always dominate the shot count, over a 60 match season you should expect to fail to win circa 18 times. Obviously, you will win some matches very easily. The key to being good at FM is not those matches, but reducing this 30-40% figure to one that will ensure you win some trophies.

It would be great to see updated figures for this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's largely similar still.

On 04/09/2015 at 17:16, BoxToBox said:

I want someone to explain how this result could happen, FM is so damn unrealistic sometimes....

This would never happen in real life...... Oh!

He is talking about the stats rather than the result for which you have just posted the result . Im sure the above game did not have Man U having 47 shots to MK Dons 6 

6 minutes ago, prot651 said:

He is talking about the stats rather than the result for which you have just posted the result . Im sure the above game did not have Man U having 47 shots to MK Dons 6 

No, but Man Utd had most shots anyway.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/28847955

Looking at that I'd say that similar to FM in some ways. The losing side had loads of corners, most shots and most possession.

If you want an even more "FM-like" match, then this one:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42685212

72% possession, 21 shots to 3, losing 1-0. I'd call that comparable.

10 minutes ago, XaW said:

16 minutes ago, prot651 said:

He is talking about the stats rather than the result for which you have just posted the result . Im sure the above game did not have Man U having 47 shots to MK Dons 6 

No, but Man Utd had most shots anyway.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/28847955

Looking at that I'd say that similar to FM in some ways. The losing side had loads of corners, most shots and most possession.

If you want an even more "FM-like" match, then this one:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42685212

72% possession, 21 shots to 3, losing 1-0. I'd call that comparable.

"I talked with my players and said this Liverpool is a really strong team," said Carvalhal, who has secured seven points in his first four league games.

"They are like a Formula 1 car. But at 4pm in London it will be difficult to speed, they would be a car like any other.

"We needed to make sure there was traffic, we could not let them have open roads to drive in."

Too bad in fm roads seems to be open but the engine and tires of that Formula 1 car fails you too often. 

Teams in actual Football don't win most of the time because they have more shots….

It is their Managers Managing spaces and increasing/decreasing the Chance of Winning.

Even having less shots can increase that chance (counter attacking Football like all of Germany's Opposition at the last WC, anyone?) Furthermore, the AI on this game has never cared About having more shots, ever. And never should.

This thread is from 2015. I've watched a lot of FM Matches. Generally, speaking, FM Players who have this in masses regardless of release tend to be like Germany at the WC, or worse (either in both attack and/or defense). FM just does not have the data to Show it. (Sorry for the random caps, my browser is killing me).

https://www.theringer.com/soccer/2018/6/27/17511596/2018-world-cup-germany-south-korea-mexico-sweden-elimination
 

Just now, Pasonen said:

"I talked with my players and said this Liverpool is a really strong team," said Carvalhal, who has secured seven points in his first four league games.

"They are like a Formula 1 car. But at 4pm in London it will be difficult to speed, they would be a car like any other.

"We needed to make sure there was traffic, we could not let them have open roads to drive in."

Too bad in fm roads seems to be open but the engine and tires of that Formula 1 car fails you too often. 

Yes, I know, I remember the quotes as well. My point was simply that these matches happens every once in a while, and thus should also happen in FM if the opposing team is set up right and have their day, in addition to the attacking team not changing up things to avoid this (Klopp have done a lot of things to try to avoid this happening, especially after than game).

And speaking of FM 2015/2016...

if that doesn't make sense to you, and how this couldN't be "undeserved" the game never will (I was Leicester).



 

11 minutes ago, XaW said:

Yes, I know, I remember the quotes as well. My point was simply that these matches happens every once in a while, and thus should also happen in FM if the opposing team is set up right and have their day, in addition to the attacking team not changing up things to avoid this (Klopp have done a lot of things to try to avoid this happening, especially after than game).

Yeah its a complex game in real life and in computer. Its a never ending story in real life too how work doesnt reward you automaticly. I'm one of those guys who think underdogs are too easy in fm. Even when lost to them they play badly. I really hope someday we can honestly say they played well and worked their socks off. But that means players need to move more and work more. Now attackers are the workers. We need to see defending team is working their socks off. I know sometimes you lose even when opponent is lazy.

18 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

Yeah its a complex game in real life and in computer. Its a never ending story in real life too how work doesnt reward you automaticly. I'm one of those guys who think underdogs are too easy in fm. Even when lost to them they play badly. I really hope someday we can honestly say they played well and worked their socks off. But that means players need to move more and work more. Now attackers are the workers. We need to see defending team is working their socks off. I know sometimes you lose even when opponent is lazy.

Yeah, I can agree it should be more visible that the defensive side actually work well enough. There are signs already, but it's not easy to spot them soon enough to be able to do something about it. The best general advise for spotting it is too many long shots and corners. Those things are often signs for not being able to penetrate the defensive structure of the more defensive sides.

Perhaps the assistant could warn the manager about it if the tactical knowledge is good enough? And tell the manager to drop down the tempo, and perhaps some suggestions for more movement between the lines to pull the defense apart. Or that the side lacks a pivot to recycle possession instead of making suggestive long shots when the movement breaks down? Once again, if the assistant is good enough and the context is there.

@SJNM - Next time, rather than just using an ad hominem, actually post something useful and related to the topic at hand if you want to constructively participate in a discussion.

In my opinion, keep reporting real life examples compared to FM won't help anyone but increasing the number of those who rant about the ME.

51 minutes ago, Federico said:

In my opinion, keep reporting real life examples compared to FM won't help anyone but increasing the number of those who rant about the ME.

Then let them rant. Those who want to rant would rant anyway no matter what you do. Only nodding in agreement is accaptable for them.

I agree, but partly. There are those who rant just for the sake of it, and those who defend the game just for the sake of it. Both of them are deleterious from my point of view.

People that rant unnecessarily or defend the game for the sake of it is fine. Unless you want the forum to slowly turn into a one sided echo chamber. Personal attacks that don't contribute to the discussion on the other hand should be always banned.

4 minutes ago, Federico said:

I agree, but partly. There are those who rant just for the sake of it, and those who defend the game just for the sake of it. Both of them are deleterious from my point of view.

They don't bring anything valuable to the table but I wouldn't put people who are reporting real life examples in that basket.  If someone claims that ME is broken or the stats are unrealistic and can never happen in real life then those real life examples are facts and not just defending for the sake of it.

8 minuti fa, zyfon5 ha scritto:

People that rant unnecessarily or defend the game for the sake of it is fine. Unless you want the forum to slowly turn into a one sided echo chamber. Personal attacks that don't contribute to the discussion on the other hand should be always banned.

Mmm no I think I have to disagree. Things are not black or white. I think if everything is reduced to what it is, a spectacular game that tries to emulate real life football, we would live the forum much better and with many more smart and interesting threads.

2 minuti fa, yolixeya ha scritto:

They don't bring anything valuable to the table but I wouldn't put people who are reporting real life examples in that basket.  If someone claims that ME is broken or the stats are unrealistic and can never happen in real life then those real life examples are facts and not just defending for the sake of it.

But for me this is the problem. People is continously pushed to think it's correct to compare FM to real life football. Of course devs must have something on the paper so to make the game as plausible and convincing as possible, but the information we users get, for me is kind of misleading.