What role did Dennis Irwin play?

You'll see your team falling apart.

Attack mentality by default, sets your team's passing range long enough, also high tempo already. If u're using that setting as your main setting, your players will be tired quickly not to mention more vulnerable to injury. You're basically just want to challange your opponent in an athleticism contest. N what is the purpose of direct pass if u gonna play with much higher D-line n attacking mentality+higher tempo? I see no benefit in there. It is too vulnerable agaisnt counter. U might be planning to press your opponent inside their half but it will surely backfired. 4-4-2 is naturally not suited for high d-line not to mention your TI is overly aggressive, except if u have exceptional cheating-like players with many 20s on their attributes.

N it's certainly not the way Man Utd used to play.

If 442 is not supposed to be an attacking formation then why did Christian Benteke's form suddenly explode last season when he was fit? As soon as Tim Sherwood took the reigns he played a much more direct attacking game and Benteke thrived. That's because the team pushed far higher up the pitch than it used to and Sherwood had them crossing into Benteke all day long. He also played in what we know as the big man/little man partnership so common in 442's.

You try playing a target man up front when sitting deep and see where that gets you. They hardly ever score because they don't get into the right areas often enough and when the ball is threaded through the defence they don't have the pace or skill to beat the defenders unlike fast strikers. By not getting into the right areas I mean the target man does not side on the edge or get inside the opposition box enough to be an aerial threat and is also not a threat when he receives the ball due to largely lesser technical ability than fast strikers.

And by the way, if you want to nip a target man's game in the bud the best thing you can do is push right up.

From a fitting a tactic to a team standpoint, Manchester United does not have the pace in its front line to run with the ball and run onto balls successfully without interception and go through clean one on one with the keeper. They have Rooney. They have RVP. They have Mata possibly. Falcao. They Fellaini as an option. None of these players have got acceleration or pace above 14, and most Premier League defenders can handle that if a ball goes over the top and these strikers try to run onto it. The only players who have good enough quickness are the wide players like Rafael or Di Maria and that pace has plenty of use out wide. So I think I am playing to their strengths by putting these very technically gifted attackers as close to goal as possible.

I concede that there will be a lot of chances from balls over the top, through balls etc, and I have seen it early this season in my save. But thanks to the acquisition of a couple of fast defenders in Marquinhos and Nicolas Otamendi critical to making this tactic a success, plus keeping slowcoach Blind out of the back four, this back line has been very good at running back for that ball and tackling that Speedy Gonzalez whenever one is used.

Don't mistake direct for "long ball" either. A lot of direct passing is kept on the deck.

I'll tell you another reason why it is best direct and why in the 90s it was played direct (I think you are wrong to think it was anything but). The formation only has two central players. Any team that plays 5 midfielders will automatically have an advantage, both in passing options and numbers to intercept and close down the 442's central pairing when they are on the ball. Without one forward dropping extremely deep to link up such as a False Nine, it's going to be difficult to maintain possession of the ball. It is widely accepted I am sure that 442 is not a possession focused formation for this reason and I believe Alex Ferguson made a statement somewhere saying he was not bothered about ball possession back then. When possession became the new thing and short passing became all the rage, you saw Ferguson switch formation and go to 4411, 4141, 433 and 4231.

If 442 is not supposed to be an attacking formation then why did Christian Benteke's form suddenly explode last season when he was fit? As soon as Tim Sherwood took the reigns he played a much more direct attacking game and Benteke thrived. That's because the team pushed far higher up the pitch than it used to and Sherwood had them crossing into Benteke all day long. He also played in what we know as the big man/little man partnership so common in 442's.

You try playing a target man up front when sitting deep and see where that gets you. They hardly ever score because they don't get into the right areas often enough and when the ball is threaded through the defence they don't have the pace or skill to beat the defenders unlike fast strikers. By not getting into the right areas I mean the target man does not side on the edge or get inside the opposition box enough to be an aerial threat and is also not a threat when he receives the ball due to largely lesser technical ability than fast strikers.

And by the way, if you want to nip a target man's game in the bud the best thing you can do is push right up.

From a fitting a tactic to a team standpoint, Manchester United does not have the pace in its front line to run with the ball and run onto balls successfully without interception and go through clean one on one with the keeper. They have Rooney. They have RVP. They have Mata possibly. Falcao. They Fellaini as an option. None of these players have got acceleration or pace above 14, and most Premier League defenders can handle that if a ball goes over the top and these strikers try to run onto it. The only players who have good enough quickness are the wide players like Rafael or Di Maria and that pace has plenty of use out wide. So I think I am playing to their strengths by putting these very technically gifted attackers as close to goal as possible.

I concede that there will be a lot of chances from balls over the top, through balls etc, and I have seen it early this season in my save. But thanks to the acquisition of a couple of fast defenders in Marquinhos and Nicolas Otamendi critical to making this tactic a success, plus keeping slowcoach Blind out of the back four, this back line has been very good at running back for that ball and tackling that Speedy Gonzalez whenever one is used.

Don't mistake direct for "long ball" either. A lot of direct passing is kept on the deck.

I'll tell you another reason why it is best direct and why in the 90s it was played direct (I think you are wrong to think it was anything but). The formation only has two central players. Any team that plays 5 midfielders will automatically have an advantage, both in passing options and numbers to intercept and close down the 442's central pairing when they are on the ball. Without one forward dropping extremely deep to link up such as a False Nine, it's going to be difficult to maintain possession of the ball. It is widely accepted I am sure that 442 is not a possession focused formation for this reason and I believe Alex Ferguson made a statement somewhere saying he was not bothered about ball possession back then. When possession became the new thing and short passing became all the rage, you saw Ferguson switch formation and go to 4411, 4141, 433 and 4231.

yo dude I've been watching football since beckham was still using number 10 at Man Utd maybe not as long as you but Ofc i know 4-4-2 was a King back then. Ok let me tell u clearly

1. "If 442 is not supposed to be an attacking formation then why blablabla" I said: "4-4-2 is naturally not suited for high d-line not to mention your TI is overly aggressive"

not suited for a High D-line, not Attacking mentality

2. who said u must sitting deep when using 4-4-2? I said it is not suited for much higher D-Line since nowadays many teams are packing numerous players on the midfield strata, therefore 4-4-2 will find it hard to deal with those teams. placing a massive burden to your central midfielder duo n CB duo.

3. by using attacking mentality + normal D-line + more structured mentality u will find your Target Man positioning himself deep enough on your opponent's defense, more space for him to work on or for his teammates to burst forward, compared with fluid+same mentality+ much higher D-Line+same formation

4. "I'll tell you another reason why it is best direct and why in the 90s it was played direct (I think you are wrong to think it was anything but). The formation only has two central players. Any team that plays 5 midfielders will automatically have an advantage, both in passing options and numbers to intercept and close down the 442's central pairing when they are on the ball. Without one forward dropping extremely deep to link up such as a False Nine, it's going to be difficult to maintain possession of the ball."

u want to bring an old school tactic from over than a decade ago agaisnt new tactical approaches nowadays? No offense but did u know why 4-4-2 is no longer a King, sir? that is where i think you're wrong. it is not dead, it is just no longer a King like that era. n there were many reasons for that. it was a king because back then many teams were using 4-4-2 too so it was more about player's ability on the field that matter not to mention kick n rush was still on its peak of popularity.with the right setups n the right players, u might bring it back to its glory but certainly not with the exact same setup used long ago.

it is just like how man-marking being almost replaced by zonal marking nowadays.

5. what was your purpose when posted your Team instructions screenshot here if not to get some advices or suggestions? or just because u want to do it?

if u cant take advices n suggestions then why bother posting a screenshot like that sir? :o im not saying my advices must be the truest, no. just wanna help with my experience as a fellow FM-manager. anyway that's all. i think im not good enough to help someone with your caliber sir so good luck

Just tried this with Real Madrid, as I think there player-types are in the same mould as the 99-team. I grew up under this team, and think I have a pretty good understanding of it fm-wise.

Attacking-Structured (control when leading, overload when chasing a lead)

GK-D with PI distribute quickly: Casillas

FBR-A: Carvajal

CD-D: Ramos

CD-D: Pepe

FBL-S: Arbeloa

WMR-S with PI cross from deep: James Rodriguez

CM-D: Khedira

B2B-s: Kroos

W-A: Bale

CF-A, swap positions with CF-S: Ronaldo,

CF-S: Benzema

TI's: Run at defence, Exploit the flanks, get stuck in and be more expressive, all trademarks of the 99-team.

Now this is still the alpha-version, but I think I'm on to something. Just smashed Atletico Madrid 6-0, with 28 shots, 17 on target, 11 off, 5 clear cut chances and 4 half-chances. 14 shots in each half.

Edit 2: Keep smashing teams, now the only thing different with this rm-side is that they have the fotball-god CR7, so I will sell him, and get a teddy sheringham-like player and a Solskjaer type for the money i get selling ronaldo, chicharito will have the Cole-role.

Just so happened to watch a United game from this era today. For some reason, German Sky Sports were re-running both legs of United vs. Dortmund in the quarter finals of the CL in 1997. It got me thinking about this thread, and I kept an eye on Irwin throughout, as well as making notes on the other players' positions/style/role.

First of all the lineup was:

Schmeichel

G.Neville

Johnsen

Pallister

Irwin

Beckham

Keane

Butt

Giggs

Cantona

Solskjaer

The main thing I will say about "the Irwin role" is that he was definitely the more attacking of the two fullbacks in the games I watched today. This was also true during most of the time he played as Giggs would almost always be playing in front of him making space for him to exploit. Irwin was pretty much the complete full back, always available to support the defence, the transitions and even the advanced attack. A clear quirk of United's attacking play was his cutting inside, but I would say this was virtually always whilst he was on the ball as Giggs dragged a couple of players to the touchline to deal with his menace. For me, his FM role is definitely a Full Back on Attack duty with the PI "Cuts Inside With Ball". Nothing overly complex at all.

As for the rest of the team, I would say they lined up like this:

DISCLAIMER - I'm not saying this tactic would work in FM, just that it fairly represents what I saw in the first of the two fixtures I watched today. Ignore the player names here as I just used my Gladbach save to illustrate.

Here are some key points that caused me to arrive at this formation:

• The left side was much more attacking than the right side, though Beckham was perhaps sometimes a WM(A) for some impetus on the right side.
  
• Butt and Keane also readily exchanged roles and the sides on which they were playing which is not really possible to replicate on FM. Dortmund were strong down the right for a while, meaning Butt moved over and dropped in to help.
  
• It's worth noting that G.Nev was far from his peak and was still making mistakes - his role was perhaps more limited for much of the first hour.
  
• At first I thought Cantona was a DLF(S), but after watching the game for a while (maybe i'm influenced by watching his game more often as well!) the Trequatista role is just perfect for him. Cantona just drifts around ahead of the midfield, lurking dangerously and ready to supply a killer ball or pop up with a moment of wizadry. The team almost do carry him and he pressed very little, if at all.
  
• The pressing up front was pretty much all managed by Solskjaer - I would maybe give him a PI of "Close Down More" if I was having a crack at creating this system properly in FM - but the AF(A) should probably give enough pressing by default.
  

Anyway, that's my input! Hope the OP and others found it interesting/useful.

Just so happened to watch a United game from this era today. For some reason, German Sky Sports were re-running both legs of United vs. Dortmund in the quarter finals of the CL in 1997. It got me thinking about this thread, and I kept an eye on Irwin throughout, as well as making notes on the other players' positions/style/role.

First of all the lineup was:

Schmeichel

G.Neville

Johnsen

Pallister

Irwin

Beckham

Keane

Butt

Giggs

Cantona

Solskjaer

The main thing I will say about "the Irwin role" is that he was definitely the more attacking of the two fullbacks in the games I watched today. This was also true during most of the time he played as Giggs would almost always be playing in front of him making space for him to exploit. Irwin was pretty much the complete full back, always available to support the defence, the transitions and even the advanced attack. A clear quirk of United's attacking play was his cutting inside, but I would say this was virtually always whilst he was on the ball as Giggs dragged a couple of players to the touchline to deal with his menace. For me, his FM role is definitely a Full Back on Attack duty with the PI "Cuts Inside With Ball". Nothing overly complex at all.

As for the rest of the team, I would say they lined up like this:

DISCLAIMER - I'm not saying this tactic would work in FM, just that it fairly represents what I saw in the first of the two fixtures I watched today. Ignore the player names here as I just used my Gladbach save to illustrate.

Here are some key points that caused me to arrive at this formation:

• The left side was much more attacking than the right side, though Beckham was perhaps sometimes a WM(A) for some impetus on the right side.
  
• Butt and Keane also readily exchanged roles and the sides on which they were playing which is not really possible to replicate on FM. Dortmund were strong down the right for a while, meaning Butt moved over and dropped in to help.
  
• It's worth noting that G.Nev was far from his peak and was still making mistakes - his role was perhaps more limited for much of the first hour.
  
• At first I thought Cantona was a DLF(S), but after watching the game for a while (maybe i'm influenced by watching his game more often as well!) the Trequatista role is just perfect for him. Cantona just drifts around ahead of the midfield, lurking dangerously and ready to supply a killer ball or pop up with a moment of wizadry. The team almost do carry him and he pressed very little, if at all.
  
• The pressing up front was pretty much all managed by Solskjaer - I would maybe give him a PI of "Close Down More" if I was having a crack at creating this system properly in FM - but the AF(A) should probably give enough pressing by default.
  

Anyway, that's my input! Hope the OP and others found it interesting/useful.

Excellent post! Cantona was definitely a Trequartista, a classic example of the role, even.

I'd imagine to nail it, you'd have to find a right footed left back, like Davide Santon, to match Irwin.

this is good Thread.I'm using stoke city, I would love to play them using Man utd 4-4-2 formation in the past. Hope I can learn many things from here