Shouts - Getting them done right

Time to open a can of whoopass..now without a clear indication from SI, these opinions are taken from my conversations with people and my observations over how these are incorporated into the game. They may differ slightly but they are meant to be a broad guide and not definitive statements.

If there is one common denominator every season its the confusion over shouts. Shouts were introduced along with the tactical creator a few seasons back and these got refined over time. They are still being refined as far as I can see. A shout from FM12 will not necessarily be the same as the shout from FM15, but there are several common denominators. I don't plan on doing something like what I did for FM12 which you can find here on my blog, which was posted on these forums as well, but I plan on dumbing these critters down so people can at least do the right thing. Whenever you create any tactic you will have the option of choosing what kind of shouts you can have.

The shouts are broadly broken down into those that affect Possession, Penetration, Shape, Defending and General Shouts.

Possession Shouts

Generally affect the style of passing, whether these are direct, long or short, and whether these are to target men or playmakers. These shouts also in some cases affect the individual instructions to players which work better if you have the roles set up right. A notorious one being Pass into Space and Clear Ball to Flanks.

Penetration Shouts

Are shouts that affect the length and type of passes and also affect individual instructions to players as to whether they should hold up the ball, dribble with the ball, or run forward without the ball to get into space to receive a pass.

Shape Shouts

Affect the width of your team and how you guys create space, whether its compressed along the length of the pitch or narrowed along the width. There are 2 shouts here that are also influenced by player attributes such as Off the ball, vision, flair, and these are the Roam from Positions and Stick to Positions shouts, thats how I take these last two to be influenced.

Defending Shouts

These work with your shape shouts, and whenever you do a shape shout, you really need to think through on how to use the defending shouts, cos these shouts can displace your shape if done wrong. Essentially these affect how far a dot is going to move from their D-line when closing down. So if you are playing a high defensive line and opt to do Close down much more you are effectively telling your team to lose shape as a priority to close down players higher up the pitch. So your team will sit shallower on the pitch, i.e. further from your penalty box, whenever they start closing down players.

Other shouts here affect how players are tackled and specific close down targets.

General shouts

These usually affect a combination of team actions, passing, tempo and creativity.

How do I use them

AHA its HOW I USE THEM...so,

A shout is a simplified way of modifying the way your team plays without having to individually go in to change player instructions. When you create shouts you need to consider what kind of team you are using it for and what you want to achieve. If you are playing with a side thats relatively poor in technique, you would probably want to stay away from "Be more expressive" and "Roam from position" as these are shouts that require, flair, passing and high decisions to pull off. It will also require stamina, workmate, teamwork and vision. Thats a lot for a poor side. So knowing the side you have affects the kind of shouts you can use.

So if you have a side with poor passing..then you may also want to avoid, pass into space, exploit the flanks, clear ball to flanks, since these are hoof the ball instructions, apart from pass into space, which essentially is a shout that is more creative in nature and requires you to have good players with off the ball, work rate, stamina, passing and decisions.

So know your team before using the shouts.

Back to my 442, assume now that i have a side like Liverpool, good side above average in attributes..playing against Norwich, and I reckon we can beat em but i want to start the game slow with the ball in my control and I just want to wear them down...

Shorter Passing

Work ball into box

Play out of defense

I would use these shouts to control possession, I wouldn't even bother with Retain Possession. Work ball into box affects long shots I take into the box, and to some extent will affect how my players move with the ball in the box. Play out of defense will encourage us to recycle possession and the shorter passing will make that easier; To ensure that this is OPTIMIZED, I go to my fullbacks and tell them both to "do less risky passes".

So thats for possession..since i want to suss the oppostion out, I may not want to tackle a lot, but I am happy with my shape I tell my players to stay on feet. This shout essentially reduces the severity of tackling done, but if I still wanna be a cur...then I tell my wingers to tackle hard and mark tight individually and close down more there..so its done up front.

THAT WOULD BE IT FOR SHOUTS I go make coffee, tell my wife I love her..then,,

45 mins in..and I decide...hmm this is getting boring, not my wife.....its bound to be boring....its liverpool.

So I up the ante

And add these shouts

Look for overlap .

Push higher up ( I am playing a control philosophy) This is a risky shout since i am squeezing play, but since I have the front line on close down much more individually I should be fine, and I add

Whipped crosses...the reason why they are whipped is cos I have players making runs BEHIND their defensive line..and with players who have higher OTB a whipped cross is better since I don play with target men for who Float crosses may be a better shout.

OK we get the goal my shouts may change..they usually do..and I go...more defensive

Play Narrower

Lower Tempo

Uncheck Look for overlap

At this point i could selectively choose players to tight mark from the opposing team..if they are being a threat.

Lets use another example...this is what happens if my wife gets angry and i get desperate.

These are my forgotten shouts..i hardly use em..I don't see why you would want to unless you are desperately defending a lead and want to park a bus, in front of another..

Clear Ball to Flanks...- desperate shout that is used to find players who are preferably AMs who can run/dribble a ball down, if you have no players who have good acceleration, passing and Otb for this ..you are giving away possession..either way this shout does that

These shouts have some merit...but..

Exploit Shouts - I hate these shouts with a vengeance, they affect player mentality, passing, crossing and types of crosses..there are just too many variables, good if you want to park the bus and pray for a bigger one to block yea..I would much rather just use intelligent tactic creation to get the same effect.. If i wanted to attack down one flank..i would just make the tactic do it rather than the shout.

Close down shouts...use with care please...these are the ones that unbalance your system. You can do isolated close down via PI if you need to and still hold defensive shape.

Good luck

Nicely done using real match concepts rather than just listing them out. I agree on the extremity of some shouts it's why I rather go PI for a lot of things I'm trying to achieve. Take the overlap for example, I hate that it effects both flanks so try to do it manually for one side with PIs to keep variation in my attacking patterns.

It is an interesting topic, and for me at times a very frustrating one.

"Shouts" have moved on quite a bit, and really i think are no longer "shouts" at all. They were originally intended (i assume) as quick modifiers to sliders. For the first 2 years after introduction, they "complimented" the sliders. I have no wish to go back into the sliders debate, but from FM14 onwards, they changed from "shouts" to "Team Instructions" and became a far more fundamental part of each tactic.

In parallel with that change, there is clearly a concious choice by SI/Sega not to provide clear/official guidance on what each instruction actually modifies (At this stage we have to say its a choice by them - can't really say that in 3 years they "have not had time"....). Some people will agree with this decision, others will not. Little we can do about it other than rely on snippits here and there across the forum, guidance from mods and people who may or may not know what they are talking about (NB - The OP here is very much in the "does know what he is talking about", but with lesser known names on the forum how do we know/trust....).

So onto some key questions, in my head at least:

Work ball into the box - You mention in the OP that this impacts "to some extent how my players move in the box" - I would really like to understand and get some certainty on this shout. I have see Cleon mention in the past that this is pure long shot modifier, and its clear cut on the 18yard line - outside box is "long shot", inside is not. (although i know for certain that ingame "match stats" classify long shot slightly differently). I also have reference in the past jpcote's sticky, which for the equivalent PI "Shoot Less Often" suggests it will modify how your players behave in the box, although i have been advised at times that his info might be out of date? So is the TI actually different to the PI? Who knows.......

Shorter Passing and Play out of Defence - I noticed you selected this combo in your OP example, and indeed it is probably one of the most common combos out there (including myself). My question is, surely its "doubling up". "Shorter Passing" will set passing to shorter to every player on the pitch, but then the second shout sets it shorter again for your back 4. Is this a conscious choice do you think, or are we all getting caught up by forgetting that the first shout has already done it (I am aware that they "layer" in Fm15)

Mentality impact on shouts - This is probably one of the most oft missed issues. By changing your team mentality of course, you also impact a slew of things like Tempo, Pressing, Dline (on top of the more obvious impact of changing your players "mentality"). What i find a bit of a mystery though, is trying to understand to what extent this changes say Dline, compared to using the TI. To take an example, i want to set up a high block tactic, not a crazy dortmund esque all chase the ball, but a general high press type of setup. The first 2 components are that i will need a higher than normal Dline, and higher than normal pressing setting (various other things too, but lets focus on these 2). Now, lets think of 2 options.

Option 1 - Standard mentality, TI's to "pusher higher up" and "close down more"

Option 2 - Control mentality, no TI's

What is the difference in terms of outcome on my high block (leaving aside the possession/tempo changes from the mentality shift)? Of course what most will end up doing is combining both, using control but also adding the 2 TI.

Then i take it to the next step. Lets assume i chose "option 3" and added both, because i was thinking of the full tactic not just the high block. I wanted some risk taking in mentality and passing. But then i go 2 nil up against a pretty good side, with 20mins to go. I decide that whilst i want to retain my high block approach, i want to reduce the element of risk taking when we have the ball and in transition. The natural assumption here would be to shift mentality. In my mind, i would go all the way from control to defend, to really reduce my risk taking.

Except of course reducing your mentality by 3 "notches" will impact (amongst other things):

- Dline

- Pressing

So then I possibly need to go back in and modify my Dline and pressing TI and go from "Push higher up" to "Much higher defensive line" (NB - why cant the language used also be consistent!!!) , and for pressing go from "Close down more" to "close down much more".

Or do i? Will changing those 2 TI massively offset the change caused by mentality? Or will it just make it "net neutral" which is what i desired? Absolutely no idea..........

There are quite a few other examples like this - understanding the impact that passing length has on tempo and width and so on.

I think it is just an area where so much more clarity could be given which would reduce frustrations of so many users, and enhance enjoyment of the game. That is before i even consider the circa 90% (guestimate) of customers who dont even know this forum exists - They must really be p*ssing in the wind when trying to work out what things ingame actually do......

@Jambo.

To my simple mind, and looking very simplistically at things (do you get I like simple? ), I wouldn't want different Mentality settings changing the Dline or Pressing. I'd have one "standard" for both regardless of Mentality, and just change them via "Shouts" ("TIs") only.

Taking that thought to the extreme, just get rid of "Mentality" completely. Want to play "Attacking"? Select the relevant TIs. Defensive? Same applies. Just give us the old "Counter" tick box back and we're golden.

I know there is more involved than my overly-simplistic approach here, it's just a thought is all .

Anyway, sorry to go off topic like that.

Back on topic, always great to see more information regarding how different "Shouts" impact styles of play. Keep it coming .

There's a post here by Cleon from 2012 explaining the Shouts, yep it's 3 versions out of date & some shouts have changed but it's some kind of help

From post #4 onwards http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/305067-The-Full-90-Minutes-What-I-Do

I really do wish there was solid clarification from SI on this. You see so many tactics on here with masses of TI's ticked & I often wonder does the user even know what they fully mean

The link of mine is no longer any good, every single shouts now has been changed in FM15 and its more complex now with what they change and what not. So please don't use mine as a guide as its nowhere near accurate any longer. No-one no longer knows every single setting the shouts change expect SI. So start thinking in terms like Rashidi has set out in the opening post and you'll be less frustrated in the long run.

The link of mine is no longer any good, every single shouts now has been changed in FM15 and its more complex now with what they change and what not. So please don't use mine as a guide as its nowhere near accurate any longer. No-one no longer knows every single setting the shouts change expect SI. So start thinking in terms like Rashidi has set out in the opening post and you'll be less frustrated in the long run.

Yep, I did say it was three versions out of date & things have changed

I'm not frustrated, I use them sparingly & where I see fit. I was referring to others asking for help on the boards with 7 TI's ticked, there's at least 2 of those in the top 10 posts right now

The link of mine is no longer any good, every single shouts now has been changed in FM15 and its more complex now with what they change and what not. So please don't use mine as a guide as its nowhere near accurate any longer. No-one no longer knows every single setting the shouts change expect SI. So start thinking in terms like Rashidi has set out in the opening post and you'll be less frustrated in the long run.

Exactly if you think in slider terms, and tick boxes in the past..you are gonna tear your hair out. Sliders don't work like that anymore, they are now clearly a combination of check boxes, sliders and some things under the hood, how some bloke in a white coat believes a certain role to play. And if we are going to try and decipher these into an equation thats predictable...we are gonna be in trouble. Think of them in simpler terms..divide them logically based entirely on your system and then see how your players react..and don't forget the ppms you have assigned to your players act as further modifiers to behavior.

I don't expect SI to come out and make a clear definition of what a shot will do exactly. Remember why sliders were removed? Cos the better tacticians could literally replicate a system via numbers and check boxes, the magic was gone and there was no challenge, no mystery. A players behavior became a slider and a box. The game stopped being realistic, so these shouts were included and then we had touchline shouts done as well..the shouts were meant to give us an immersion value that adjusted the variables in the game in a way that made it a bit more realistic. These shouts add a certain mystery level to the game, what we need to do is to understand which are the risky shouts, what they broadly do and then how they apply to our system.

At most you will need only 3-5 shouts a game...The most I have gone is 7 and even then i thought i was going over the top. @herne79 in fact thats how the game should be played. Keep it simple and manage via shouts...that was SI's goal when the TC was set up. For the more adventurous min/maxers like me they made sure we could adjust individual play by PI

Work Ball Into Box , honestly this is one shout thats been debated to death...its a simple shout...just think of it as one that reduces long shots and reduces passing to short. cos if you think of it ...thats how the ball will get worked into the box.

Play out of Defense ... this is how i look at this shout.....I don't expect my fullbacks, dmc and DCs to try any through balls or play risky passes with this shout. So if they are already playing it short expect to see my side cycle possession from one end to the end of the defensive line if need be if we are camping to a player who has the ability to play the forward pass..this will also in turn reduce tempo at the back....sounds like a lot but this is what I reckon the shout does in real life, and I usually see it happening cos I play with a DLP and know that my DLP can do something with the ball, it helps as well that I have 2 B2BMC beside him, one who can play the Killer Ball and another who gets forward.

To me the worse thing you can do with your shouts is changing your mentality structure, that just has a knock on effect on everything else, and can screw things up big time cos it affects everything...cos the fundamental attribute that probably drives everything here is decision making. I don't want to take that chance. Thats why its important not to overdo shouts. To give an example.

You have a 442, you are playing control and literally have a camping tactic with NO overlapping fullbacks. and you get the goal and decide you want to go counter..( this is a bad example cos I don play counter attacking) when you change your mentality structure, you probably only want to mess with the possession and shape shouts. The former, chances are you won't need to change much, except for maybe pass into space, you could use that with exploit flanks, but then when you do that you need to understand what that does and how your fullbacks now get affected. When you do a shout like that you are expecting your wingers to go after the deep clearances and you may want someone to hold up the ball...so essentially the shouts you use need to be thought through.

Every shout is situational, the best way to master them is to keep things simple. And if they don't work entirely the way you expect, take a chill pill, have a coke and a smile

The reason why I posted this up...was cos there are just way too many posts with people having a ridiculous combination of shouts and then going..why they heck am i losing

And if they don't work entirely the way you expect, take a chill pill, have a coke and a smile

The reason why I posted this up...was cos there are just way too many posts with people having a ridiculous combination of shouts and then going..why they heck am i losing

Spot on. I've always said that if you don't know why you are selecting something, then you shouldn't select it.

The same applies at a Player Instruction level too.

Possibly the most infuriating part of FM for me, no clear guidance what each shout do, the one guide I did use was Cleon's post from back in 2012 and now he states that this is no longer relevant. So please please SI can you please release some official guide which state what each shout does and the impact under the hood it has to the players.

Spot on. I've always said that if you don't know why you are selecting something, then you shouldn't select it.

The same applies at a Player Instruction level too.

But they're buttons. We all know what happens when you put a human being in the same room with a big red button that says "Do Not Press"

In my experience there is a definite correlation to success vs. # of shouts. That correlation is: More shouts = Less success (which in turn = get a better tactic.... again). Simple, really.

Excellent thread rashidi1 thanks again!

I have'nt SEEN anyone address the new teamtalk shouts they implemented in this years version.

It seems that they have a subtle tactical impact.

Can anybody elaborate?

I have'nt SEEN anyone address the new teamtalk shouts they implemented in this years version.

It seems that they have a subtle tactical impact.

Can anybody elaborate?

They don't change anything tactically its all morale really, hence why you haven't seen it discussed in here. It's all motivational.

Even "get creative" ? i have been shouting it all season long to my playmaker in hope that he will try a key pass. :/

Those touchline shouts, I've only used them once. They are imho cosmetic at best. Trying a creative pass is down more to players making themselves available for those kind of passes. So the receiving players need to have the right ppms and roles for you to see it.

Those touchline shouts, I've only used them once. They are imho cosmetic at best. Trying a creative pass is down more to players making themselves available for those kind of passes. So the receiving players need to have the right ppms and roles for you to see it.

Not at all, I play on full 90min every game and they certainly do make a difference.

Maybe Cleon is right and they only effect morale, but saying they are merely cosmetic is wide of the mark.

Not at all, I play on full 90min every game and they certainly do make a difference.

Maybe Cleon is right and they only effect morale, but saying they are merely cosmetic is wide of the mark.

They do only effect morale. Any that seem to be tactical instructions are just merely 'reminders' to players about what they should already be doing. To be fair they are kinda pointless at the minute and SI have even admitted the impact they have is only really small and you might not be be able to notice what they've actually done. But it is something that is being worked on and tweaked all the time.

I'm 99% sure work ball into box affects crossing. The difference is like night and day watching on full. Wide players are much more likely to pull the ball back to a deeper player when the shout is active and only cross when in the perfect position to do so or as a last resort. Whether this is to do with crossing instructions or risky/directness of passing or width or whatever I have no idea!

Not at all, I play on full 90min every game and they certainly do make a difference.

Maybe Cleon is right and they only effect morale, but saying they are merely cosmetic is wide of the mark.

I am on a 20 match winning run, and I have yet to use the touchline shouts once. I did it in my first season, cos it had the "wow, its a new feature" feel, but once I figured out it had a small impact on my game. I left it alone. It may impact morale, its something thats unproven to me since I haven't had a morale issue ever. I think Cleon was referring to the touchline shouts having a short impact in a game as opposed to TI. The Work ball into the box shout used to simply reduce long shots.

Now when it comes to shouts you need to remember one fundamental thing. Its a sum total of everything in the game. If your player is selfish and has low decisions and has good long shots and a chance opens up for him to take pot shots...he will..from outside the box. So whilst these shouts are meant to tell your team what to do, just like irl, managers know that on the pitch, the players will be expected to decide for themselves