Help with West Ham 4-1-4-1 and 4-4-2

I have been playing with West Ham. I'm not doing great but also not really bad. I'm 13th after 10 games but have only faced Man Udt and Tottenham from the top 6 teams so have had not hard a hard fixture list either. I've been playing with a 4-1-4-1 to try and get the best out of Song but also with a more traditional 4-4-2.

442:

GK (defend), LFB (attack), LCB (defend), RCD (defend), RFB (support), LW (support), LCM (defend), RCM (attack), RW (attack), TM (attack), F9 (support)

Standard, Fluid

TI's for the 4-4-2 are: short passing, pass into space, push higher up, offside trap and lower tempo.

4141:

GK (defend), LFB (attack), LCB (defend), RCD (defend), RFB (support), RPM (support), LW (support), LCM (defend), RCM (attack), RW (attack), F9 (support)

Standard, Fluid

TI's for the 4-1-4-1 are: retain possession, short passing, pass into space, push higher up, offside trap and lower tempo.

No PI's for anyone.

I feel the team is pretty good without being fantastic and that I should be doing better - especially offensively as I have only manage 10 goals in the 10 games. A couple of hints/pointers would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

I would have attached screen shoots but for some reason the editor is not allowing me to upload pictures (I do realise I'm doing something wrong but can't figure it out).

Been doing very well defensively myself with West Ham but like you goals have been a problem. I'm no tactical expert but having stripped back my tactics to the bare minimum TI's a couple of things stick out.

I agree with you on retain possession as I find other settings in fact give possession back to the opposition too much in FM15 but I guess a symptom of retain possession is that a lot of scoring opportunities may not be made because your players are keeping the ball until an opening occurs. So maybe try a different passing style but with retain possession so a few more longer balls could be played. I also played push higher up but found that sometimes it decreases the space you have to play in so sometimes maybe experiment with a deeper defensive line or at least start with a standard one. Also a lower tempo with shorter passing and retain possession means that "you really are holding on to the ball" which again means that attacks may be slow thus allowing the opposition to get back.

Re roles - TM A on attack with a shorter passing game isn't easy IMO. I myself don't want to launch long balls to Carroll and would rather he chested it down and layed it off simply to a midfielder but unless someone can help with that I can't see how to play it. Song as well I have struggled with. He has great stats for many a role but I haven't found one that he does well yet.

If it helps this is what I am experimenting with right now.

-------------------CF S-----------------

WPM S----CM A-------BBM S------WP A

-------------------DLP D----------------

WB A------CD D---------CD D------WB S

I start with a standard mentality with a flexible team shape.

Starting TI's are - retain possession, hit early crosses, stop short GK distribution.

I beat Man City away 3-1 with this with a Sakho hat trick but in the next game I hadn't had a shot against Southampton so added TI's pusher higher up, close down much more and attacking mentality and ran out 3-1 winners.

As I say I am not an expert but with FM15 I am starting to see that maybe starting with a bare minimum of TI's with maybe a standard philosophy is the way to start matches then add from there depending on how a game is going. Maybe try that with your shapes and add as you go.

Sorry if this doesn't help.

I'm surprised you haven't had troubles with playing a CM(a) in a 4-4-2. Do you have troubles with that CM getting caught too high up the field and them just cutting you through the middle, esp on a counter with a CAM?

Been doing very well defensively myself with West Ham but like you goals have been a problem. I'm no tactical expert but having stripped back my tactics to the bare minimum TI's a couple of things stick out.

I agree with you on retain possession as I find other settings in fact give possession back to the opposition too much in FM15 but I guess a symptom of retain possession is that a lot of scoring opportunities may not be made because your players are keeping the ball until an opening occurs. So maybe try a different passing style but with retain possession so a few more longer balls could be played. I also played push higher up but found that sometimes it decreases the space you have to play in so sometimes maybe experiment with a deeper defensive line or at least start with a standard one. Also a lower tempo with shorter passing and retain possession means that "you really are holding on to the ball" which again means that attacks may be slow thus allowing the opposition to get back.

Re roles - TM A on attack with a shorter passing game isn't easy IMO. I myself don't want to launch long balls to Carroll and would rather he chested it down and layed it off simply to a midfielder but unless someone can help with that I can't see how to play it. Song as well I have struggled with. He has great stats for many a role but I haven't found one that he does well yet.

If it helps this is what I am experimenting with right now.

-------------------CF S-----------------

WPM S----CM A-------BBM S------WP A

-------------------DLP D----------------

WB A------CD D---------CD D------WB S

I start with a standard mentality with a flexible team shape.

Starting TI's are - retain possession, hit early crosses, stop short GK distribution.

I beat Man City away 3-1 with this with a Sakho hat trick but in the next game I hadn't had a shot against Southampton so added TI's pusher higher up, close down much more and attacking mentality and ran out 3-1 winners.

As I say I am not an expert but with FM15 I am starting to see that maybe starting with a bare minimum of TI's with maybe a standard philosophy is the way to start matches then add from there depending on how a game is going. Maybe try that with your shapes and add as you go.

Sorry if this doesn't help.

Thank a million for the reply. I agree with most of your points. I started without "retain possesion" but just found myself having none of the ball and being unable to get a grip on the game. Personally I much favour the direct game opposed to a lot of passing around for the sake of it. Fair point with the TI's. I'll give that a try. Just a quick question; what is a WPM (S)? I assume the WP (A) is the Wide Playmaker on attack.

I'm surprised you haven't had troubles with playing a CM(a) in a 4-4-2. Do you have troubles with that CM getting caught too high up the field and them just cutting you through the middle, esp on a counter with a CAM?

It's not been that big a problem to be honest. However, I have mainly been using the 4-4-2 late in the game when chasing a goal so guess I do expect some counters to come naturally and have not been paying a lot of attention to the possible CM(a) issue.

Thank a million for the reply. I agree with most of your points. I started without "retain possesion" but just found myself having none of the ball and being unable to get a grip on the game. Personally I much favour the direct game opposed to a lot of passing around for the sake of it. Fair point with the TI's. I'll give that a try. Just a quick question; what is a WPM (S)? I assume the WP (A) is the Wide Playmaker on attack.

Bad use of symbols!! Both wide playmakers on each side!! Should be WP S

Took your advice and adjusted the team. Actually Song has been performing very nicely for me in the roaming playmaker role; so I decided to stick with it. Also it has worked out well for me with Valencia as a right winger; seeing as I really want him to play that works out nicely. In the end I ended up with this:

-------------------CF S-----------------

WPM S----CM A-------BBM S------W A

-------------------RPM S----------------

WB A------CD D---------CD D------WB S

Standard, Flexible

TI: "Retain possesion" and "Play wider" - due to having a winger

Adjusting the shouts depending on opposition and game development. I has been fun to fiddle around with the tactics based on your experience with the team. For instance I have actually never used a CF before, so good fun trying that. Especially since the results have been very good. I've won seven straight matches (including a scrappy 1-0 win at home against Chelsea) with a goal score of 17-4.

Anyway thanks for the help. I've started to adjust the 4-4-2 to give me a two striker option. Good with the inspiration.

Took your advice and adjusted the team. Actually Song has been performing very nicely for me in the roaming playmaker role; so I decided to stick with it. Also it has worked out well for me with Valencia as a right winger; seeing as I really want him to play that works out nicely. In the end I ended up with this:

-------------------CF S-----------------

WPM S----CM A-------BBM S------W A

-------------------RPM S----------------

WB A------CD D---------CD D------WB S

Standard, Flexible

TI: "Retain possesion" and "Play wider" - due to having a winger

Adjusting the shouts depending on opposition and game development. I has been fun to fiddle around with the tactics based on your experience with the team. For instance I have actually never used a CF before, so good fun trying that. Especially since the results have been very good. I've won seven straight matches (including a scrappy 1-0 win at home against Chelsea) with a goal score of 17-4.

Anyway thanks for the help. I've started to adjust the 4-4-2 to give me a two striker option. Good with the inspiration.

Excellent. Might try some of your ideas if I may as I still am not convinced about having two wide playmakers. Interesting re Song. How does he do as the mere one DM as a roamer?