Football Manager 2014/15 Crossover

I have been putting off buying Football Manager 2015 because I am so far into my Portsmouth save on FM 14. Is there any way of carrying over my career from FM 14 to FM 15 without having to edit every player in individually?

Cheers, Dan

No, it is not possible.

If you're enjoying your game i'd honestly suggest carrying on. FM15 is a great game but it's so hard to find a save you really enjoy. I've never really gotten over a save I have on FM12 despite trying every year since!

I do wonder why this feature hasn't been added yet. The saves couldn't be directly compatible due to new features and data, but ultimately I don't see why they could create a database creator that could convert previous versions' save games to the new version's database. Missing data can be filled in, and a lot of that heavy machinery is already in the game (creating players when loading in new leagues). It would be a great feature to have and it would move copies by preventing people some who are still playing their long term save from thinking "well, I'll give this FM a miss so I can keep going with my save".

It would be a headline feature, and one that I can imagine being a big unit seller for FM16.

I do wonder why this feature hasn't been added yet. The saves couldn't be directly compatible due to new features and data, but ultimately I don't see why they could create a database creator that could convert previous versions' save games to the new version's database. Missing data can be filled in, and a lot of that heavy machinery is already in the game (creating players when loading in new leagues). It would be a great feature to have and it would move copies by preventing people some who are still playing their long term save from thinking "well, I'll give this FM a miss so I can keep going with my save".

It would be a headline feature, and one that I can imagine being a big unit seller for FM16.

New features are added each year not just to the game but to the database that stores all the clubs & players as well. There are changes to attribute weightings, there would be massive inconsistencies, player/staff attributes would go all over the place once starting up a game because the old values would be subjected to current weightings and that's only coming from a research perspective.

To be honest I would just continue with FM14 a while, let the bugs get ironed out . Carry on enjoying your game.

Same issue here. Finally got in a great LFC save in 14 so going to stick with 14 for now. I'll look at 15 near Christmas time.

Just to through it out there, I play OOTP and you can transfer your saves each year to the new version of the game.

You can in many games, but they aren't constructed the way FM is.

There's virtually no chance ever of FM backwards compatibility I'm afraid.

You can in many games, but they aren't constructed the way FM is.

There's virtually no chance ever of FM backwards compatibility I'm afraid.

Again, I don't see how a database couldn't be produced from a savefile, with the gaps being filled in with generated data (both for differences in games and leagues that weren't loaded). What is the limitation that prevents this from being done? I get that the database is a save file is merely a shadow of an actual database, but surely with there already being the systems in place to add new leagues on the fly it could be possible to reproduce a usable database (even if the playable leagues are limited to those in the original save).

The only issue that seems obvious is the development time required to do this. But to be bluntly honest "continue to play your long term saves on FM16!" would almost certainly move more units than "now with even more press conferences!". There is a huge untapped market of players who skip every second version (some skip many years) and just keep playing their old saves.

If you're enjoying your game i'd honestly suggest carrying on. FM15 is a great game but it's so hard to find a save you really enjoy. I've never really gotten over a save I have on FM12 despite trying every year since!

Yep. Heck I enjoyed a save on FM10 so much I played it for 3 years. In fact, FM14 was the next one I bought.

Again, I don't see how a database couldn't be produced from a savefile, with the gaps being filled in with generated data (both for differences in games and leagues that weren't loaded). What is the limitation that prevents this from being done? I get that the database is a save file is merely a shadow of an actual database, but surely with there already being the systems in place to add new leagues on the fly it could be possible to reproduce a usable database (even if the playable leagues are limited to those in the original save).

The only issue that seems obvious is the development time required to do this. But to be bluntly honest "continue to play your long term saves on FM16!" would almost certainly move more units than "now with even more press conferences!". There is a huge untapped market of players who skip every second version (some skip many years) and just keep playing their old saves.

You'd have to ask the devs that, but unless you're one yourself, and have access to the codebase they do, then it's dangerous to say anything along the lines of not seeing how it could be done.

As for the business reasons behind the change, yeah I can completely see how it would be a selling point. But I'd conversely say that, given that, does that not maybe suggest that this is something SI have considered and discounted for some reason?

Things always look easy from the comfort of your armchair

I have been putting off buying Football Manager 2015 because I am so far into my Portsmouth save on FM 14. Is there any way of carrying over my career from FM 14 to FM 15 without having to edit every player in individually?

Cheers, Dan

You can carry editor data over from previous versions of FM,as I've done since FM12 but in FM15 for some reson although all the players are there,none were in my team and were free agents. I sorted that by using the FM15 in-game editor and placing them in my team. However there is no way you can carry over gamesave files from previous editions so you will have to start again albeit you now have the players and their skills intact.

You'd have to ask the devs that, but unless you're one yourself, and have access to the codebase they do, then it's dangerous to say anything along the lines of not seeing how it could be done.

As for the business reasons behind the change, yeah I can completely see how it would be a selling point. But I'd conversely say that, given that, does that not maybe suggest that this is something SI have considered and discounted for some reason?

I don't see how it's "dangerous" to say that I don't see where the issue would arise is a 'save->database' converter. I get that direct save game compatibility has a huge number of issues, and that's what is normally talked about, but I've yet to see any response beyond "impossible" to a 'save->database' converter.

The way that the data is in save files, I can't see how it can't be used to create a compatible database (the converter would need to be specific to the database type for the FM game used). It would be a major feature, and take far more development time than many would realise (the amount of bug and balance testing to make sure the system didn't create problems with the shear number of potential set ups).

Yep, same here currently in 2029/30 on FM14, not leaving any time soon.

Yep, same here currently in 2029/30 on FM14, not leaving any time soon.

...and that is a lost sale.

I don't know, maybe I think too much of SI, but surely a save->database converter to continue save files isn't that far away.

I don't see how it's "dangerous" to say that I don't see where the issue would arise is a 'save->database' converter. I get that direct save game compatibility has a huge number of issues, and that's what is normally talked about, but I've yet to see any response beyond "impossible" to a 'save->database' converter.

The way that the data is in save files, I can't see how it can't be used to create a compatible database (the converter would need to be specific to the database type for the FM game used). It would be a major feature, and take far more development time than many would realise (the amount of bug and balance testing to make sure the system didn't create problems with the shear number of potential set ups).

Are you a developer though? That's why saying you "can't see" what the problem would be doesn't really work. I can't see why a broken car wouldn't just work, but then I'm not a mechanic.

I don't think anyone's arguing that it would be a good feature, and one that might mean profits. My point is simply that if we can see that, then you can be damn sure SI have too, and given it's not been even mentioned by them in close to twenty years perhaps means it isn't possible/viable.

The "world" in OOTP Baseball is huuuuuuuge, I would say maybe even bigger than that in Football manager. Plus all historical leagues going back about 130 years. Im assuming it's the overall coding that makes this a non starter for FM compared to IOOTP? No moaning from me, just genuinely curious because it's a feature I love from OOTP.

Are you a developer though? That's why saying you "can't see" what the problem would be doesn't really work. I can't see why a broken car wouldn't just work, but then I'm not a mechanic.

I don't think anyone's arguing that it would be a good feature, and one that might mean profits. My point is simply that if we can see that, then you can be damn sure SI have too, and given it's not been even mentioned by them in close to twenty years perhaps means it isn't possible/viable.

I don't really see what I do as important in this case, as in this case as I'm clearly not working for SI. If you really need to know, my work is in theoretical physics and I do a lot of physical modelling. Regardless of what I do though, it could be argued to "not be relevant" unless I can sit down with their code and see exactly what there is to work with, and as mentioned, not working for SI I am not in a position to do that.

The whole "well, if they could they would have" argument doesn't really hold up either. There are plenty of "good ideas" that they have taken years to get up and firing. The 3D match engine comes to mind, as does dynamic league reputation, loading leagues on the fly (the classic, "but it's impossible" feature) and so forth. The key is that there is demand for such a feature and money to be made, which there appears to be. "Impossible" in this case would merely mean "technically difficult" or "requires a lot of work", as whilst it may be hard, if they set out to make such a feature, it could be done. How that ends up being done is the question in that regard, even if it were done in a manner such that the next FM were to be compatible with future versions (changes to the save data to help future compatibility).

I don't really see what I do as important in this case, as in this case as I'm clearly not working for SI. If you really need to know, my work is in theoretical physics and I do a lot of physical modelling. Regardless of what I do though, it could be argued to "not be relevant" unless I can sit down with their code and see exactly what there is to work with, and as mentioned, not working for SI I am not in a position to do that.

Because trivialising or saying a feature is going to be easy, or saying that you don't see what problems could arise doesn't really work without a dev background. Might just be a bit peeve of mine, but happens a lot in the FM realm. Of course I know absolutely nothing about your field, but I imagine if I said physical modelling was dead easy, it'd probably be quite annoying too.

The whole "well, if they could they would have" argument doesn't really hold up either. There are plenty of "good ideas" that they have taken years to get up and firing. The 3D match engine comes to mind, as does dynamic league reputation, loading leagues on the fly (the classic, "but it's impossible" feature) and so forth. The key is that there is demand for such a feature and money to be made, which there appears to be. "Impossible" in this case would merely mean "technically difficult" or "requires a lot of work", as whilst it may be hard, if they set out to make such a feature, it could be done. How that ends up being done is the question in that regard, even if it were done in a manner such that the next FM were to be compatible with future versions (changes to the save data to help future compatibility).

And there are plenty of ideas that are far less profitable than this. But then they also have far less visible roadblocks. SI are very receptive to outside ideas - if you took the list of ideas in the wishlist threads they've had over the past few years, there would be a considerable number they've brought on. Plus I never said it would be impossible - nothing is in a coding perspective. What I said was that it wouldn't be viable. There are probably thousands of things SI have talked about that would absolutely, unequivocally improve profits, and the game in general. But it's about balancing that potential against the work it would take for this, which would be considerable.

Sorry mate, but this will never happen. Too complicated and just would not work.

Because trivialising or saying a feature is going to be easy, or saying that you don't see what problems could arise doesn't really work without a dev background. Might just be a bit peeve of mine, but happens a lot in the FM realm. Of course I know absolutely nothing about your field, but I imagine if I said physical modelling was dead easy, it'd probably be quite annoying too.

Never trivialised, never said it was going to be easy, never suggested it wasn't going to have problems to deal with. Not sure where you got any of that from in fact.

And there are plenty of ideas that are far less profitable than this. But then they also have far less visible roadblocks. SI are very receptive to outside ideas - if you took the list of ideas in the wishlist threads they've had over the past few years, there would be a considerable number they've brought on. Plus I never said it would be impossible - nothing is in a coding perspective. What I said was that it wouldn't be viable. There are probably thousands of things SI have talked about that would absolutely, unequivocally improve profits, and the game in general. But it's about balancing that potential against the work it would take for this, which would be considerable.

There are lots of things in the game that would have been far easier to implement each iteration which create a good feature list (and now, for more press conferences), this would be a headline feature, and that may well be one of the issues with it. It may be a case that "continue playing the game you were playing" mightn't sound great to the marketing department, who knows.

SI are very good with listening to the community, which is exactly why I think this is something that may well be on the "only a matter of time" list. Again, maybe I'm thinking too much of SI, but I do think that this is something that has all the makings of a big future feature that will both move units, and keep the most hardcore players happy. Again, I think the marketing side may be a problem, as it would have a high time cost, low marketing value. That is very different to the potential sales (which I think would be quite large), but ultimately the marketing is aimed as much outside the FM community as it is in it, and having "can play old saves" as a headline feature of a new game, for a series that the gaming media likes to take the occasional pot shot at for "not changing much each version" could be problematic. As such it's value as a marketable feature is only really for the hardcore base, who ultimately having the game announced is likely marketing enough.

In terms of a unit moving feature though, I seriously can't think of one that is bigger than this (I'm sure SI have ideas though). It's a niche series, it is for the hardcore fan base, and most "big" aren't exactly going to push units. The key should be getting people to shift over to the new version each year, and if the desire to keep playing old saves is an impediment to that, then this has the potential to be the biggest unit shifter of the lot.

To be honest though, I would actually be a bit surprised if "save compatibility" by whatever means was something in the "long term" project box for them.

Never trivialised, never said it was going to be easy, never suggested it wasn't going to have problems to deal with. Not sure where you got any of that from in fact.

The repeated "I don't see any problem with..." etc. But if that's not what you meant, fair enough.

There are lots of things in the game that would have been far easier to implement each iteration which create a good feature list (and now, for more press conferences), this would be a headline feature, and that may well be one of the issues with it. It may be a case that "continue playing the game you were playing" mightn't sound great to the marketing department, who knows.

SI are very good with listening to the community, which is exactly why I think this is something that may well be on the "only a matter of time" list. Again, maybe I'm thinking too much of SI, but I do think that this is something that has all the makings of a big future feature that will both move units, and keep the most hardcore players happy. Again, I think the marketing side may be a problem, as it would have a high time cost, low marketing value. That is very different to the potential sales (which I think would be quite large), but ultimately the marketing is aimed as much outside the FM community as it is in it, and having "can play old saves" as a headline feature of a new game, for a series that the gaming media likes to take the occasional pot shot at for "not changing much each version" could be problematic. As such it's value as a marketable feature is only really for the hardcore base, who ultimately having the game announced is likely marketing enough.

In terms of a unit moving feature though, I seriously can't think of one that is bigger than this (I'm sure SI have ideas though). It's a niche series, it is for the hardcore fan base, and most "big" aren't exactly going to push units. The key should be getting people to shift over to the new version each year, and if the desire to keep playing old saves is an impediment to that, then this has the potential to be the biggest unit shifter of the lot.

To be honest though, I would actually be a bit surprised if "save compatibility" by whatever means was something in the "long term" project box for them.

One other thing that may count against it - this feature, if it came in, would be a massive time sink in terms of development time to get it working correctly. That's going to take a lot of resources away from the usual new features they bring for a game. So say 50% of the features (completely made up number) that would've made it into FM16 now don't, because they have this new backwards compatibility. So you've got two options as a consumer with a successful save coming up to FM16

1) Buy FM16, accept that there are now not too many blockbuster new features, and forge ahead trying to carry on your save in what is probably going to be a pretty buggy system

2) Just keep FM15, knowing that you'll sacrifice the new features, but benefit from the increased stability.

Not saying that case would actually happen, but that would end up being the complete opposite of increasing profits, as it would drive some to decide just not to bother (pretty much like now in some people's cases.

Look, I'm not saying this will never happen. In my opinion, it's just very unlikely. If it ends up happening, then great, and you'll be correct. I'd be amazed if it did though.

It's not just developing the feature for the next version that's an issue - it's then committing to retain it for every iteration thereafter. Any change to the DB would require changes to the code to make this work. Any new features would need to be compatible looking back.

Backwards compatibility is lovely on paper, but even if the initial implementation is trivial, it becomes a real pain in the posterior over time and the workload only increases the further you go on with it.

You have to make decisions, for example, about how far you want to go. Sure, last year's to this year's is great, but what about this year's to next year's? Then next year's to the year after? Each time you're retaining data so you're committing to the same weighting for attributes etc etc. The effects in the Match Engine might not be predictable at all if you don't make that commitment. So essentially, it eventually means you have to reduce the growth of the realism of the simulation because options that would have been feasible now just aren't - because people won't be able to continue that 5-version save they love so much.

Any PR gained from implementing the feature "today" would be more than lost, say, 4 full versions from now when the work becomes too much and they have to drop it.

Any PR gained from implementing the feature "today" would be more than lost, say, 4 full versions from now when the work becomes too much and they have to drop it.

That's if they still had that good PR by then, given that most would probably just complain it didn't work when it inevitably had bugs on first release.