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Thread: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

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    Question Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Just read the stuff about the release of FML and how the first of the gameworlds will be rolling out in October. The last couple of versions of FM have also bee coming out around October time if I remember correctly and I was just wondering if there is likely to be a delay in the release this year because of FML?

    I'm not talking about the development of the game, because I have read a million times that the development teams are seperate. I was more thinking about the fact that two football management games (as different as they may be) being released at the same time will inevitably compete with each other for sales. Now given that in this case they are both from the same company you would think that they would want to stagger the releases so that they are not in direct competition. I can't see many people going out and paying 72quid for a years subscription to FML and at the same time paying 25quid for FM.

    I know there is no information about a release date for FM09 yet, but can someone from SI comment on whether or not there will be any sort of effect on the release for the above reason?

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    As said in loads of threads, SI will be making announcement before Summer ends about FM09. Be patient.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Summer in Scotland ended in May to be fair ;)

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    There's a quite substantial thread somewhere in this forum where someone poses the notion at FM09 could be delayed.

    It went something like this:

    1. FML will be released soon
    2. SI will want to make money from FML
    3. SI might hold back the release of FM09 to make more money from FML

    One of the SI staff came along and said " Apart from point one, the rest of the post is complete rubbish.

    So I think that means FM09 will be released soon

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    There is nothing to worry about

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Johnston View Post
    Summer in Scotland ended in May to be fair ;)

    didnt know they had one!!

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ter View Post
    There is nothing to worry about
    no news about FM09 till now makes me worried to be honest ;)


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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    as a jedi master said

    we need patience

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamweesel View Post
    no news about FM09 till now makes me worried to be honest ;)

    *sighs*

    I think I might just give these forums a miss until we announce it

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ter View Post
    There is nothing to worry about
    That's good news.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    I hope it isnt delayed have played cm/fm for years and will defently not be buying fm live for certain reasons. If its delayed that means less time over season to play and reduces my willingness to buy the game which at the minute is guaranteed. Summer is over here everyone is back at school and work and am still waiting to find out features when most other annual games I get have announced them weeks if not months ago. I am usually patient aswell but even my patience is running out

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by rinso View Post
    didnt know they had one!!
    We had scorching hot weather in May (while I was doing my Exams ) Since then it has been total pish.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    there has been plenty of news about FM09. all of it saying that there will be news by the end of August, that FML and FM09 will not interfere with each other or cause delays between them. They have seperate development teams and as such FML will not affect FM09's launch.

    I would surmise that the very hush hushedness of FM09 thus far has just been because they want to keep any new features to them selves. With CM so desperate to try and steal some of the FM limelight it doesnt suprise me that SI are keeping everything so quiet.

    It doesnt make any sence that they are keeping schtum because FM09 is poor since whenenver they announce the new game people are going to notice. Keeping quiet about new toys however stops the enemy from borrowing the ideas.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Yea but whats wrong with saying we plan to announce new features next week,couple of days, tomorrow. CM aren't going to gain nothing from that. Its the annoying silence which seems to frustrate people. Even if for some reason they cannot release on the planned date they can always explain the situation and keep people a bit more in the loop.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Well its only 6 days (max) to go.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ter View Post
    There is nothing to worry about
    Ter, why do you bother mate. You know that will be taken as.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ter View Post
    There is everything to worry about No news is bad news, it will be released when Scotland get to a world cup final.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    whats wrong with being patient and lettin SI release the info when theyre good and ready?? they have said MANY times info will be released soon.. and naggin them or whining about it isnt going to make them release it any sooner. wait till someone finds a bug in the game, then it'll be "why couldnt SI delay the release another week and fix this???"

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Smudge View Post
    Yea but whats wrong with saying we plan to announce new features next week,couple of days, tomorrow. CM aren't going to gain nothing from that. Its the annoying silence which seems to frustrate people. Even if for some reason they cannot release on the planned date they can always explain the situation and keep people a bit more in the loop.
    So you want them to announce that there'll be an announcement about when they'll be making an announcement

    Reminds of work where they have meetings to decide when they'll have a meeting to decide the agenda for a meeting

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    I don't know if anybody has realised, but no new features bar the "leaked" match engine video have been released for CM either. They don't have CM Live on the horizon so why would they delay info. It couldn't possibly be that both companies have decided to take a different approach to marketing this year could it?

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by rinso View Post
    whats wrong with being patient and lettin SI release the info when theyre good and ready?? they have said MANY times info will be released soon.. and naggin them or whining about it isnt going to make them release it any sooner. wait till someone finds a bug in the game, then it'll be "why couldnt SI delay the release another week and fix this???"

    well said Actually thinking back to the disgrace of fm 08 before patch i see now why they want to get it right. I take it they will name release date with the features. A few other companies do it differently but if they do it this way i see.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kriss View Post
    So you want them to announce that there'll be an announcement about when they'll be making an announcement

    Reminds of work where they have meetings to decide when they'll have a meeting to decide the agenda for a meeting
    Bit of a drastic comparison as that is total pointless but see what u mean and they have sort of done that. The problem though is that they said during the summer and throughout some parts summer is over so its not totally everyones fault for complaining. I guess its just cause of the different regions we all have different opinions of when summer is.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Two different teams for FML and FM09 Dave so nothing to worry about mate.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    People are so impatient these days. If it doesn't suit you it must be bad... or someone's messed up... or someone is intentionally messing with you.

    The modern world... *sigh* ... why can't people just grow up and accept what SI tell them? Or use a search function?

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    The FML and FM09 crowds are completely different groups and most would buy both.

    That, coupled with the fact that FML is absolutely rubbish, means I don't think anyone needs to worry that FM09 will be delayed because of it.

    Remember, there are different development teams on the products too which means resources aren't being pooled and people overstretched.

    It'll come, just be patient.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    FML's main deployment is due to be jan or feb, isnt it? The whole loads of worlds with advertising nationally / internationally and boxes in the shops? October's more a limited early release.

    And the two are totally different games built on the same basic engine. One is for ultra competative people while the other suits the "game running in the background as we do other stuff" crowd.

    Well, FM suits both really, but FMLive doesn't. :-p

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    FML doesn't influence FM in any way, apart from the positive effect during FML beta of having the match engine play 1000s of matches each day and the tuning that took place as a result of this that has made the engine even more solid.

    Rathen - did you play the beta at all out of interest?

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    I dont wish to start any arguments but for all the people saying no news is bad news about FM2009, simple answer...Have SI ever let the fans down in releasing the game (looking at the last few years its all been around the same time)? It will be released but when SI will let up know...To be honest i would rather not hear anything and them check everything rather than geting told alot of stuff about it, releasing it early and finding a continious stream of bugs, because then this whole convosation will start again about patches etc

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    One thing I dont get is FML isnt out for a little while yet. But they've already given info on the game. FM09 isnt out for a little yet. ZERO news. Thats what bugs me the most. Why can they comment on one game but not the other? Technically FML should be the one thats hushed up more. Unless I'm missing something.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlahka View Post
    One thing I dont get is FML isnt out for a little while yet. But they've already given info on the game. FM09 isnt out for a little yet. ZERO news. Thats what bugs me the most. Why can they comment on one game but not the other? Technically FML should be the one thats hushed up more. Unless I'm missing something.
    SI are probably keeping quiet about FM09 to stop competitors stealing ideas from them. But for FM Live - there's no competition. That's why SI haven't said anything about FM09 yet imo.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Well, up until recently it still wasn't decided when FML would be released. FM has had release plans for a long time. Perhaps FML just came on quicker than expected and jumped ahead.

    Anyway, it's really not worth worrying about when info will be released. Hopefully the delay will just result in a shorter time between announcement and release. Miles has said that the information is coming and he's confident about the game.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    To behonest I've gotten so used to how SI just wait till the last month to announce anything that this year it really doesnt bother me. Same thing over and over again. I've adjusted to it. Mind you it probably helps that I've got too many games to play this year that the chances of me playing FM in its first couple months of release are zero. Give them time to patch it.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlahka View Post
    One thing I dont get is FML isnt out for a little while yet. But they've already given info on the game. FM09 isnt out for a little yet. ZERO news. Thats what bugs me the most. Why can they comment on one game but not the other? Technically FML should be the one thats hushed up more. Unless I'm missing something.
    We're taking pre-orders (or will be soon I'm not sure) for Football Manager Live so that is why it is being talked about at the moment. No idea why you think we should hush about something when we want people to pre-order it ;)

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ov Collyer View Post
    FML doesn't influence FM in any way, apart from the positive effect during FML beta of having the match engine play 1000s of matches each day and the tuning that took place as a result of this that has made the engine even more solid.

    Rathen - did you play the beta at all out of interest?
    Yes mate, and without wanting to derail this thread, I just found it reinforced my hatred of socialising with militant football fans and playing my 5th game of the day against a variant of Liverpool FC/whatever. That and the clumsy transfer system and the OTT times needed to train the basic skills to rearrange players just killed it stone dead for me. I can see why, as an MMO, you'd want to put those limits on, but I don't pay to play a game to sit and wait.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Fair enough Rathen - thanks for the feedback

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    S'all good chap, I'll be back to it further down the line I'm sure. There's promise there.

    I just hope we can get people away from blaming the lack of 09 info on FML. You wouldn't expect Madden 09 to be pushed back by Fifa 09 though they're still published by the same people. This paranoia and upset about FML is getting a bit silly now. FM09 will be fantastic I'm sure, we just need to wait and see what they have to say about it.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ter View Post
    *sighs*

    I think I might just give these forums a miss until we announce it
    Same here. I've been looking in here a lot less the past week, because all the threads are exactly the same.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    i think FML has the potential to be good, and after playing two months of the beta earlier this year i just found myself not arsed to put all the effort in continuosly required as its a 24hr game

    i like FM, of course which is a total different game in every aspect, because i can dip in and out whenever without feeling out of control


    back on topic, Si will need the money from FM sales, fingers crossed they nail this release as ive been dissapointed by the last one in particular (even though it was a good game just was abit underwhelmed)

    i think thevve kept info back on FM2009 this year, keeping stum and then to come out with a big bang of info later this week

    gold demo will be 2 weeks before release once its went gold mid october

    no beta

    my predictions

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Yeah, I keep checking back here every week to see if any details on 09 are out yet. It's not the same anymore starting a new game in mid 07, seems outdated.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ter View Post
    We're taking pre-orders (or will be soon I'm not sure) for Football Manager Live so that is why it is being talked about at the moment. No idea why you think we should hush about something when we want people to pre-order it ;)
    Technically I can preorder FM09 too. GIMMIE NEWS!

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rathen View Post
    Yes mate, and without wanting to derail this thread, I just found it reinforced my hatred of socialising with militant football fans and playing my 5th game of the day against a variant of Liverpool FC/whatever. That and the clumsy transfer system and the OTT times needed to train the basic skills to rearrange players just killed it stone dead for me. I can see why, as an MMO, you'd want to put those limits on, but I don't pay to play a game to sit and wait.
    To be fair, I didn't get involved with the beta, but what you are describing are some of the main points as to why I have little interest in FML, other than of course the price

    Now I can only hope we'll see a few new nations and editing capabilities in FM09

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rathen View Post
    Yes mate, and without wanting to derail this thread, I just found it reinforced my hatred of socialising with militant football fans and playing my 5th game of the day against a variant of Liverpool FC/whatever. That and the clumsy transfer system and the OTT times needed to train the basic skills to rearrange players just killed it stone dead for me. I can see why, as an MMO, you'd want to put those limits on, but I don't pay to play a game to sit and wait.
    Spot on mate. Its just not gripping enough. Should have been so much better.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    I think we will see the Demo released on the same day or very soon after the new features of FM2009 are released. Every year the game has been released around the middle of october so the time for the demo is almost here. I am really looking forward to FM2009 and am more than happy to give the SI team their time to make it good. Of course I am anxious to hear the new features, to see the new screenshots and play the demo(with a 3D match engine possibility i hope! *wink*), but I understand totally if it takes time to do this. Why rush the product? I'm making a small wager with my mates that the features is out on friday and the demo within two weeks of that ;)

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    I would be very surprised if there is a 3D Match engine, they've already stated that the Match engine being used in FML is the one being used in FM09

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    No dout it is true.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by x3widRacin View Post
    I would be very surprised if there is a 3D Match engine, they've already stated that the Match engine being used in FML is the one being used in FM09
    I would think this would be a huge mistake, because if the sneak preview of CM2008 3D engine is for real then it could be the deciding factor in changing management games. The current 3D engine with the silly poles for men isn't good enough, hence FM2008 is better with it's 2D engine from above, but the new one(if true) with authentic looking players, passing and runs would be just too good to pass.

    Have to wait for the demos though before getting too excited. I think I will decide after playing both demos which one to buy.

    But in the long run, I believe 3D is the only way to go. The pleasure of playing FM2009 with CM2008 3D game graphics would be too good.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by x3widRacin View Post
    I would be very surprised if there is a 3D Match engine, they've already stated that the Match engine being used in FML is the one being used in FM09

    People keep thinking that match engine is the display. It isn't. The engine is what simulates the match (ie the number crunching) under the cover, the display is merely a representation of what the engine produces, in the same way that the game can display the game either as 2-D or text at present. The same match engine could in theory be represented as 3-D.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Delay FM2009 as much as you like just managed to start winning on FM2008 let me enjoy for a whiel will ya :P

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glyn View Post
    People keep thinking that match engine is the display. It isn't. The engine is what simulates the match (ie the number crunching) under the cover, the display is merely a representation of what the engine produces, in the same way that the game can display the game either as 2-D or text at present. The same match engine could in theory be represented as 3-D.
    Bump... to reiterate this very important point. The internal match engine drives the graphics displayed, not the other way around. In my opinion, a strong match engine is the key part of the equation. How it's represented is up to one's interest. Personally, I zip through games with no highlights/commentary only (my eyes are on the stats and formations), so I don't even watch the dots race back and forth along the pitch.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sebacid View Post
    I would think this would be a huge mistake, because if the sneak preview of CM2008 3D engine is for real then it could be the deciding factor in changing management games. The current 3D engine with the silly poles for men isn't good enough, hence FM2008 is better with it's 2D engine from above, but the new one(if true) with authentic looking players, passing and runs would be just too good to pass.
    If that was the case, then why does FM still sell much better then FIFA Manager despite FIFA having a 3D engine representation? Football management games are on of the few genres out there that can generally get away without being particullarly attractive grahpically. The poll in the thead "Would you be in favour of a 3D match engine?" goes some way to showing that people don't really see the need for it. At the end of the day, the workings of the match engine are far more important then how it looks, and the CM name has been soiled, quite possibly beyond repair, largely because the match engine is hideously unrealistic.

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by x3widRacin View Post
    To be fair, I didn't get involved with the beta, but what you are describing are some of the main points as to why I have little interest in FML, other than of course the price

    Now I can only hope we'll see a few new nations and editing capabilities in FM09
    tbh the multiple variations of Liverpool Fc are normally well silenced with a bit of friendly Banter about not winning the league.

    however on the point of the thread FML and FM are totally different games and as such can be played alongside each other(which i regularly do) so i feel there is the ability to launch side by side if that's the plan

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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    I feel its disgraceful that you have to pay £6 a month to play a game anyway, you're gonna need to buy it at the shops anyway so why charge extra just to play it online??? Is this just another way to bleed money out of people who in reality can't afford it but will make themselves that little bit more skint just to play a game which in reality will be the same as FM09 online but making up your own club? If you want it so desperately how about you advertise it and then people can say what clubs they want with whichever players!?

  52. #52
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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richie Brill View Post
    I feel its disgraceful that you have to pay £6 a month to play a game anyway, you're gonna need to buy it at the shops anyway so why charge extra just to play it online??? Is this just another way to bleed money out of people who in reality can't afford it but will make themselves that little bit more skint just to play a game which in reality will be the same as FM09 online but making up your own club? If you want it so desperately how about you advertise it and then people can say what clubs they want with whichever players!?
    firstly FML is a service more than a game there are NO other changes to it than the monthly cost as the client is a free download.

    like i said in my earlier post they are not at all the same game you don't even pick real teams its a more detailed and involving fantasy football like the old "by post" fantasy football games but real time.

    May i suggest reading up on it a bit more and you might understand. this is one of the many blogs by FML testers giving an insight into the game http://fmlmod.blogspot.com/
    Last edited by calvg; 26-08-2008 at 19:39. Reason: added refences

  53. #53
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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richie Brill View Post
    I feel its disgraceful that you have to pay £6 a month to play a game anyway, you're gonna need to buy it at the shops anyway so why charge extra just to play it online?
    The program will be free. The subscription is the only cost.


    Quote Originally Posted by Richie Brill View Post
    Is this just another way to bleed money out of people who in reality can't afford it but will make themselves that little bit more skint just to play a game...
    There are costs to running servers and support for FML. SI isn't a charity. Why would they give away a product for free? Is charging to buy the latest version of Football manager "bleeding money out of people"?


    Quote Originally Posted by Richie Brill View Post
    ...a game which in reality will be the same as FM09 online but making up your own club?
    Haven't played the Beta, have you? It's a different game, different appraoch, and different experience than solo play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richie Brill View Post
    If you want it so desperately how about you advertise it and then people can say what clubs they want with whichever players!?
    Again, this comment doesn't make a lot of sense to those who are familiar with FML. In FML, you create a team, and bid for real players in an open market with other managers as your competition. There's a transfer market, contracts, leagues, games/competitions. No Man-Utd, no PSG, no Inter, no FC Bayer Munich. No EPL, no Ligue 1, no MLS.
    Last edited by dankrzyz; 26-08-2008 at 20:42.

  54. #54
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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    This is funny. I posted a question about whether or not it would be in SIs best interests to release two football management games (although different concepts) at the same time. And it appears that the thread has just turned into a big mix up of every possible topic you can think of. (I've never started a thread that has had over 1000 hits before, I'm happy )

  55. #55
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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glyn View Post
    People keep thinking that match engine is the display. It isn't. The engine is what simulates the match (ie the number crunching) under the cover, the display is merely a representation of what the engine produces, in the same way that the game can display the game either as 2-D or text at present. The same match engine could in theory be represented as 3-D.
    Yea, you are right in that respect, though you would imagine that a 3D match engine would require far more 'events' to be described to attribute to the 3-dimensional game world

  56. #56
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    Default Re: Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

    Quote Originally Posted by x3widRacin View Post
    Yea, you are right in that respect, though you would imagine that a 3D match engine would require far more 'events' to be described to attribute to the 3-dimensional game world

    Possibly. Not being a programmer or an SI bod, I have no idea how many events are generated with the existing match engine or whether it would be sufficient to run even a basic 3-D grahpic display.

    Having said that, you would think that any extra events would be for the display only, and not affect whether the simulation engine itself is any good or not, or improves it.
    Last edited by Glyn; 27-08-2008 at 15:35.

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