Will FM09 launch be delayed due to competition with FML?

[David Johnston]

Just read the stuff about the release of FML and how the first of the gameworlds will be rolling out in October. The last couple of versions of FM have also bee coming out around October time if I remember correctly and I was just wondering if there is likely to be a delay in the release this year because of FML?

I'm not talking about the development of the game, because I have read a million times that the development teams are seperate. I was more thinking about the fact that two football management games (as different as they may be) being released at the same time will inevitably compete with each other for sales. Now given that in this case they are both from the same company you would think that they would want to stagger the releases so that they are not in direct competition. I can't see many people going out and paying 72quid for a years subscription to FML and at the same time paying 25quid for FM.

I know there is no information about a release date for FM09 yet, but can someone from SI comment on whether or not there will be any sort of effect on the release for the above reason?

[MarkC1984]

As said in loads of threads, SI will be making announcement before Summer ends about FM09. Be patient.

[David Johnston]

Summer in Scotland ended in May to be fair

[weeeman27bob]

There's a quite substantial thread somewhere in this forum where someone poses the notion at FM09 could be delayed.

It went something like this:

1. FML will be released soon
2. SI will want to make money from FML
3. SI might hold back the release of FM09 to make more money from FML

One of the SI staff came along and said " Apart from point one, the rest of the post is complete rubbish.

So I think that means FM09 will be released soon

[Ter]

There is nothing to worry about

[rinso]

Summer in Scotland ended in May to be fair

didnt know they had one!!

[iamweesel]

There is nothing to worry about

no news about FM09 till now makes me worried to be honest

[javier_83]

as a jedi master said

we need patience

[Ter]

no news about FM09 till now makes me worried to be honest

*sighs*

I think I might just give these forums a miss until we announce it

[David Johnston]

There is nothing to worry about

That's good news.

[The Smudge]

I hope it isnt delayed have played cm/fm for years and will defently not be buying fm live for certain reasons. If its delayed that means less time over season to play and reduces my willingness to buy the game which at the minute is guaranteed. Summer is over here everyone is back at school and work and am still waiting to find out features when most other annual games I get have announced them weeks if not months ago. I am usually patient aswell but even my patience is running out

[David Johnston]

didnt know they had one!!

We had scorching hot weather in May (while I was doing my Exams ) Since then it has been total pish.

[SirTodge]

there has been plenty of news about FM09. all of it saying that there will be news by the end of August, that FML and FM09 will not interfere with each other or cause delays between them. They have seperate development teams and as such FML will not affect FM09's launch.

I would surmise that the very hush hushedness of FM09 thus far has just been because they want to keep any new features to them selves. With CM so desperate to try and steal some of the FM limelight it doesnt suprise me that SI are keeping everything so quiet.

It doesnt make any sence that they are keeping schtum because FM09 is poor since whenenver they announce the new game people are going to notice. Keeping quiet about new toys however stops the enemy from borrowing the ideas.

[The Smudge]

Yea but whats wrong with saying we plan to announce new features next week,couple of days, tomorrow. CM aren't going to gain nothing from that. Its the annoying silence which seems to frustrate people. Even if for some reason they cannot release on the planned date they can always explain the situation and keep people a bit more in the loop.

[Akaz1976]

Well its only 6 days (max) to go.

[Powlay]

There is nothing to worry about

Ter, why do you bother mate. You know that will be taken as.

There is everything to worry about No news is bad news, it will be released when Scotland get to a world cup final.

[rinso]

whats wrong with being patient and lettin SI release the info when theyre good and ready?? they have said MANY times info will be released soon.. and naggin them or whining about it isnt going to make them release it any sooner. wait till someone finds a bug in the game, then it'll be "why couldnt SI delay the release another week and fix this???"

[Kriss]

Yea but whats wrong with saying we plan to announce new features next week,couple of days, tomorrow. CM aren't going to gain nothing from that. Its the annoying silence which seems to frustrate people. Even if for some reason they cannot release on the planned date they can always explain the situation and keep people a bit more in the loop.

So you want them to announce that there'll be an announcement about when they'll be making an announcement

Reminds of work where they have meetings to decide when they'll have a meeting to decide the agenda for a meeting

[Bongo-Bongo]

I don't know if anybody has realised, but no new features bar the "leaked" match engine video have been released for CM either. They don't have CM Live on the horizon so why would they delay info. It couldn't possibly be that both companies have decided to take a different approach to marketing this year could it?

[The Smudge]

whats wrong with being patient and lettin SI release the info when theyre good and ready?? they have said MANY times info will be released soon.. and naggin them or whining about it isnt going to make them release it any sooner. wait till someone finds a bug in the game, then it'll be "why couldnt SI delay the release another week and fix this???"

well said Actually thinking back to the disgrace of fm 08 before patch i see now why they want to get it right. I take it they will name release date with the features. A few other companies do it differently but if they do it this way i see.

[The Smudge]

So you want them to announce that there'll be an announcement about when they'll be making an announcement

Reminds of work where they have meetings to decide when they'll have a meeting to decide the agenda for a meeting

Bit of a drastic comparison as that is total pointless but see what u mean and they have sort of done that. The problem though is that they said during the summer and throughout some parts summer is over so its not totally everyones fault for complaining. I guess its just cause of the different regions we all have different opinions of when summer is.

[Andy H]

Two different teams for FML and FM09 Dave so nothing to worry about mate.

[backpackant]

People are so impatient these days. If it doesn't suit you it must be bad... or someone's messed up... or someone is intentionally messing with you.

The modern world... *sigh* ... why can't people just grow up and accept what SI tell them? Or use a search function?

[Rathen]

The FML and FM09 crowds are completely different groups and most would buy both.

That, coupled with the fact that FML is absolutely rubbish, means I don't think anyone needs to worry that FM09 will be delayed because of it.

Remember, there are different development teams on the products too which means resources aren't being pooled and people overstretched.

It'll come, just be patient.

[r0x0r]

FML's main deployment is due to be jan or feb, isnt it? The whole loads of worlds with advertising nationally / internationally and boxes in the shops? October's more a limited early release.

And the two are totally different games built on the same basic engine. One is for ultra competative people while the other suits the "game running in the background as we do other stuff" crowd.

Well, FM suits both really, but FMLive doesn't. :-p

[Ov Collyer]

FML doesn't influence FM in any way, apart from the positive effect during FML beta of having the match engine play 1000s of matches each day and the tuning that took place as a result of this that has made the engine even more solid.

Rathen - did you play the beta at all out of interest?

[spider90]

I dont wish to start any arguments but for all the people saying no news is bad news about FM2009, simple answer...Have SI ever let the fans down in releasing the game (looking at the last few years its all been around the same time)? It will be released but when SI will let up know...To be honest i would rather not hear anything and them check everything rather than geting told alot of stuff about it, releasing it early and finding a continious stream of bugs, because then this whole convosation will start again about patches etc

[Vlahka]

One thing I dont get is FML isnt out for a little while yet. But they've already given info on the game. FM09 isnt out for a little yet. ZERO news. Thats what bugs me the most. Why can they comment on one game but not the other? Technically FML should be the one thats hushed up more. Unless I'm missing something.

[ahmufcwafc]

One thing I dont get is FML isnt out for a little while yet. But they've already given info on the game. FM09 isnt out for a little yet. ZERO news. Thats what bugs me the most. Why can they comment on one game but not the other? Technically FML should be the one thats hushed up more. Unless I'm missing something.

SI are probably keeping quiet about FM09 to stop competitors stealing ideas from them. But for FM Live - there's no competition. That's why SI haven't said anything about FM09 yet imo.

[Chris Ritchie]

Well, up until recently it still wasn't decided when FML would be released. FM has had release plans for a long time. Perhaps FML just came on quicker than expected and jumped ahead.

Anyway, it's really not worth worrying about when info will be released. Hopefully the delay will just result in a shorter time between announcement and release. Miles has said that the information is coming and he's confident about the game.

[Vlahka]

To behonest I've gotten so used to how SI just wait till the last month to announce anything that this year it really doesnt bother me. Same thing over and over again. I've adjusted to it. Mind you it probably helps that I've got too many games to play this year that the chances of me playing FM in its first couple months of release are zero. Give them time to patch it.

[Ter]

One thing I dont get is FML isnt out for a little while yet. But they've already given info on the game. FM09 isnt out for a little yet. ZERO news. Thats what bugs me the most. Why can they comment on one game but not the other? Technically FML should be the one thats hushed up more. Unless I'm missing something.

We're taking pre-orders (or will be soon I'm not sure) for Football Manager Live so that is why it is being talked about at the moment. No idea why you think we should hush about something when we want people to pre-order it

[Rathen]

FML doesn't influence FM in any way, apart from the positive effect during FML beta of having the match engine play 1000s of matches each day and the tuning that took place as a result of this that has made the engine even more solid.

Rathen - did you play the beta at all out of interest?

Yes mate, and without wanting to derail this thread, I just found it reinforced my hatred of socialising with militant football fans and playing my 5th game of the day against a variant of Liverpool FC/whatever. That and the clumsy transfer system and the OTT times needed to train the basic skills to rearrange players just killed it stone dead for me. I can see why, as an MMO, you'd want to put those limits on, but I don't pay to play a game to sit and wait.

[Ov Collyer]

Fair enough Rathen - thanks for the feedback

[Rathen]

S'all good chap, I'll be back to it further down the line I'm sure. There's promise there.

I just hope we can get people away from blaming the lack of 09 info on FML. You wouldn't expect Madden 09 to be pushed back by Fifa 09 though they're still published by the same people. This paranoia and upset about FML is getting a bit silly now. FM09 will be fantastic I'm sure, we just need to wait and see what they have to say about it.

[Neji]

*sighs*

I think I might just give these forums a miss until we announce it

Same here. I've been looking in here a lot less the past week, because all the threads are exactly the same.

[furney89]

i think FML has the potential to be good, and after playing two months of the beta earlier this year i just found myself not arsed to put all the effort in continuosly required as its a 24hr game

i like FM, of course which is a total different game in every aspect, because i can dip in and out whenever without feeling out of control


back on topic, Si will need the money from FM sales, fingers crossed they nail this release as ive been dissapointed by the last one in particular (even though it was a good game just was abit underwhelmed)

i think thevve kept info back on FM2009 this year, keeping stum and then to come out with a big bang of info later this week

gold demo will be 2 weeks before release once its went gold mid october

no beta

my predictions

[Suge]

Yeah, I keep checking back here every week to see if any details on 09 are out yet. It's not the same anymore starting a new game in mid 07, seems outdated.

[Vlahka]

We're taking pre-orders (or will be soon I'm not sure) for Football Manager Live so that is why it is being talked about at the moment. No idea why you think we should hush about something when we want people to pre-order it

Technically I can preorder FM09 too. GIMMIE NEWS!

[x3widRacin]

Yes mate, and without wanting to derail this thread, I just found it reinforced my hatred of socialising with militant football fans and playing my 5th game of the day against a variant of Liverpool FC/whatever. That and the clumsy transfer system and the OTT times needed to train the basic skills to rearrange players just killed it stone dead for me. I can see why, as an MMO, you'd want to put those limits on, but I don't pay to play a game to sit and wait.

To be fair, I didn't get involved with the beta, but what you are describing are some of the main points as to why I have little interest in FML, other than of course the price

Now I can only hope we'll see a few new nations and editing capabilities in FM09

[alanricouk]

Yes mate, and without wanting to derail this thread, I just found it reinforced my hatred of socialising with militant football fans and playing my 5th game of the day against a variant of Liverpool FC/whatever. That and the clumsy transfer system and the OTT times needed to train the basic skills to rearrange players just killed it stone dead for me. I can see why, as an MMO, you'd want to put those limits on, but I don't pay to play a game to sit and wait.

Spot on mate. Its just not gripping enough. Should have been so much better.

[Sebacid]

I think we will see the Demo released on the same day or very soon after the new features of FM2009 are released. Every year the game has been released around the middle of october so the time for the demo is almost here. I am really looking forward to FM2009 and am more than happy to give the SI team their time to make it good. Of course I am anxious to hear the new features, to see the new screenshots and play the demo(with a 3D match engine possibility i hope! *wink*), but I understand totally if it takes time to do this. Why rush the product? I'm making a small wager with my mates that the features is out on friday and the demo within two weeks of that

[x3widRacin]

I would be very surprised if there is a 3D Match engine, they've already stated that the Match engine being used in FML is the one being used in FM09

[FM5]

No dout it is true.

[Sebacid]

I would be very surprised if there is a 3D Match engine, they've already stated that the Match engine being used in FML is the one being used in FM09

I would think this would be a huge mistake, because if the sneak preview of CM2008 3D engine is for real then it could be the deciding factor in changing management games. The current 3D engine with the silly poles for men isn't good enough, hence FM2008 is better with it's 2D engine from above, but the new one(if true) with authentic looking players, passing and runs would be just too good to pass.

Have to wait for the demos though before getting too excited. I think I will decide after playing both demos which one to buy.

But in the long run, I believe 3D is the only way to go. The pleasure of playing FM2009 with CM2008 3D game graphics would be too good.

[Glyn]

I would be very surprised if there is a 3D Match engine, they've already stated that the Match engine being used in FML is the one being used in FM09

People keep thinking that match engine is the display. It isn't. The engine is what simulates the match (ie the number crunching) under the cover, the display is merely a representation of what the engine produces, in the same way that the game can display the game either as 2-D or text at present. The same match engine could in theory be represented as 3-D.

[carboreeta]

Delay FM2009 as much as you like just managed to start winning on FM2008 let me enjoy for a whiel will ya :P

[dankrzyz]

People keep thinking that match engine is the display. It isn't. The engine is what simulates the match (ie the number crunching) under the cover, the display is merely a representation of what the engine produces, in the same way that the game can display the game either as 2-D or text at present. The same match engine could in theory be represented as 3-D.

Bump... to reiterate this very important point. The internal match engine drives the graphics displayed, not the other way around. In my opinion, a strong match engine is the key part of the equation. How it's represented is up to one's interest. Personally, I zip through games with no highlights/commentary only (my eyes are on the stats and formations), so I don't even watch the dots race back and forth along the pitch.

[Bongo-Bongo]

I would think this would be a huge mistake, because if the sneak preview of CM2008 3D engine is for real then it could be the deciding factor in changing management games. The current 3D engine with the silly poles for men isn't good enough, hence FM2008 is better with it's 2D engine from above, but the new one(if true) with authentic looking players, passing and runs would be just too good to pass.

If that was the case, then why does FM still sell much better then FIFA Manager despite FIFA having a 3D engine representation? Football management games are on of the few genres out there that can generally get away without being particullarly attractive grahpically. The poll in the thead "Would you be in favour of a 3D match engine?" goes some way to showing that people don't really see the need for it. At the end of the day, the workings of the match engine are far more important then how it looks, and the CM name has been soiled, quite possibly beyond repair, largely because the match engine is hideously unrealistic.

[calvg]

To be fair, I didn't get involved with the beta, but what you are describing are some of the main points as to why I have little interest in FML, other than of course the price

Now I can only hope we'll see a few new nations and editing capabilities in FM09

tbh the multiple variations of Liverpool Fc are normally well silenced with a bit of friendly Banter about not winning the league.

however on the point of the thread FML and FM are totally different games and as such can be played alongside each other(which i regularly do) so i feel there is the ability to launch side by side if that's the plan

[Richie Brill]

I feel its disgraceful that you have to pay £6 a month to play a game anyway, you're gonna need to buy it at the shops anyway so why charge extra just to play it online??? Is this just another way to bleed money out of people who in reality can't afford it but will make themselves that little bit more skint just to play a game which in reality will be the same as FM09 online but making up your own club? If you want it so desperately how about you advertise it and then people can say what clubs they want with whichever players!?

[calvg]

I feel its disgraceful that you have to pay £6 a month to play a game anyway, you're gonna need to buy it at the shops anyway so why charge extra just to play it online??? Is this just another way to bleed money out of people who in reality can't afford it but will make themselves that little bit more skint just to play a game which in reality will be the same as FM09 online but making up your own club? If you want it so desperately how about you advertise it and then people can say what clubs they want with whichever players!?

firstly FML is a service more than a game there are NO other changes to it than the monthly cost as the client is a free download.

like i said in my earlier post they are not at all the same game you don't even pick real teams its a more detailed and involving fantasy football like the old "by post" fantasy football games but real time.

May i suggest reading up on it a bit more and you might understand. this is one of the many blogs by FML testers giving an insight into the game http://fmlmod.blogspot.com/

[dankrzyz]

I feel its disgraceful that you have to pay £6 a month to play a game anyway, you're gonna need to buy it at the shops anyway so why charge extra just to play it online?

The program will be free. The subscription is the only cost.

Is this just another way to bleed money out of people who in reality can't afford it but will make themselves that little bit more skint just to play a game...

There are costs to running servers and support for FML. SI isn't a charity. Why would they give away a product for free? Is charging to buy the latest version of Football manager "bleeding money out of people"?

...a game which in reality will be the same as FM09 online but making up your own club?

Haven't played the Beta, have you? It's a different game, different appraoch, and different experience than solo play.

If you want it so desperately how about you advertise it and then people can say what clubs they want with whichever players!?

Again, this comment doesn't make a lot of sense to those who are familiar with FML. In FML, you create a team, and bid for real players in an open market with other managers as your competition. There's a transfer market, contracts, leagues, games/competitions. No Man-Utd, no PSG, no Inter, no FC Bayer Munich. No EPL, no Ligue 1, no MLS.

[David Johnston]

This is funny. I posted a question about whether or not it would be in SIs best interests to release two football management games (although different concepts) at the same time. And it appears that the thread has just turned into a big mix up of every possible topic you can think of. (I've never started a thread that has had over 1000 hits before, I'm happy )

[x3widRacin]

People keep thinking that match engine is the display. It isn't. The engine is what simulates the match (ie the number crunching) under the cover, the display is merely a representation of what the engine produces, in the same way that the game can display the game either as 2-D or text at present. The same match engine could in theory be represented as 3-D.

Yea, you are right in that respect, though you would imagine that a 3D match engine would require far more 'events' to be described to attribute to the 3-dimensional game world

[Glyn]

Yea, you are right in that respect, though you would imagine that a 3D match engine would require far more 'events' to be described to attribute to the 3-dimensional game world

Possibly. Not being a programmer or an SI bod, I have no idea how many events are generated with the existing match engine or whether it would be sufficient to run even a basic 3-D grahpic display.

Having said that, you would think that any extra events would be for the display only, and not affect whether the simulation engine itself is any good or not, or improves it.