Recreating Mourinho's 4-2-3-1 Denmark FM 2014 tactic

I recently started my last save on fm 2014, and i finally reached premier league with Luton town, which fortunally wasn't as hard as i thought due to a major take over as i reached championship, that along with the AI letting pretty nice players out of their contracts helped a lot .

Moving forward as my first 2 matches on the premier league i got Man City and Chelsea, i drew the first game 0-0 somehow and i got completely destroyed and amazed against Chelsea, over many saves i've played against them although with major teams so i never really bothered analysing much how the AI emulates Mourinho, so i set myself a new last goal for this save was to recreate their tactic. As a manager who never loses faith on Denmark 4-2-3-1 i was curious how was the AI making such solid defense and at the same time such blitz deadly attacks.

Their team was obviously much stronger than mine, the year is 2017, their midfield triangle made of an awesomely developed bender, ramires and barkley teared my midfield apart as if they were training, this was by far the most consistent midfield trio i ever noticed. Hazard, of course, was a 'no way to stop' threat as Lukaku wasn't throwing away any chances.

After a lot of reloads, i was bound to find their way of playing as my last fm 2014 tactical exercise. Let's check their heatmap from the last replay i did.

What surprised me at first was how their defensive line had about zero movement, they would stick with that line no matter what, apart from their DL which sometimes would support hazard, but you don't see that at all by their heatmap so how come? Also on this heatmap their CM's are actually further away from their CD line than they were on all the other matches. My second surprise was how was he getting the AML and AMR to play on AMC's position, this was the swarm that was destroying my balance over and over again.

On that game i played with what i thought was the same tactic they were using, i believe i was in part right apart from some minor adjustments.

Here's the heatmap from the game after against OB for the europa league

Why aren't my wingers moving inside like they should? This game ended with a 14-0 for my side on both home and away matches, OB was playing so narrowly and so defensive that that along with our direct passing wouldn't need our wingers to move inside to get the ball.

This is what i believe the Mourinho's FM 2014 tactic, and i would like to discuss it with you as i'm sure somewhere i might have missed something.

Mentality : Normal

Fluidity : Very rigid

Team instructions : More direct pass, pass into space, work ball into the box, play from defense, exploit the middle (i believe this is the instruction to get the wingers to move inside), much higher defensive line, stick to positions, hassle opponents, stay on feet, use offside trap.

GK: GK/D

DL: Wingback/D this is the only defender that would show some support down the flank.

DC's: CD/D

DR: Fullback/D

CML: Deep playmaker/D this is probably the role i'm more uncertain of, it's ramires position and while it doesn't show very well on their heatmap, he would sit even closer to the CD line and never leave it.

CMR: Ball winning midfield/D bender's role, might also be a CM/D but the way he would pressure anyone to quickly get the ball back and as the only CM that would actually go a bit further i believe that's his role.

AMC: Advanced Midfield/A, might be an advanced playmaker on attack but somehow i doubt it, he would get inside the box but he acted way more defensively than a playmaker, he wouldn't just press a bit and move away like adv playmaker's do.

AML: Hazard, i have no doubt he's played as an attacking winger.

AMR: Oscar, another uncertainty, i believe he's played as an IF, i'm unsure about his duty tho'.

Striker: Advanced forward.

Please give it a try and discuss. Due to all indication from guide's on this forum, this tactic, which i believe is the one the AI's using seems a bit unsound taking our guidelines into consideration, yet it works, quite well actually. Do you think this is the way Mourinho's AI plays? What would you change?

I think theTI "Allow my wingers to swap" is on for Chelsea - Hence them being in the middle

Yes, Mourinho swaps his winger. Also, from playing against him many times, I think his defensive block stays very disciplined (as it does IRL actually) but his front 4 are allowed more freedom and movement, which to me would suggest Fluid style. He uses a deep playmaker and focuses play down the wings, especially through Hazard.

The ironic thing is that there is no way that Mourinho would use a 4-2-3-1 Denmark in real life. That formation is basically a 4-2-4, and leaves you massively exposed centrally. Basically the antithesis of everything Mourinho believes in..

I'm hoping that FM15 will begin to implement more "real life" formations rather than seeing all the top managers playing what is in effect, a 4-2-4.

Have you been able to recreate the 4-2-3-1 wide tactic in FM15 yet? I think he plays more of a 4-4-1-1 in defense which will be like a 4-2-3-1 in attack which for me have been totally impossible to make for this version of FM. Nothing works as it should and players are all over the place doing nothing. But I'm still trying

Have you been able to recreate the 4-2-3-1 wide tactic in FM15 yet? I think he plays more of a 4-4-1-1 in defense which will be like a 4-2-3-1 in attack which for me have been totally impossible to make for this version of FM. Nothing works as it should and players are all over the place doing nothing. But I'm still trying

To a certain degree yes, there are a couple of things that still illude me mostly related to their passing style. They have used the 4231 most of their season, i actually just played against them now and they went for a 4-2DM-1CM-2-1.

Their defense is quite conservative using a defensive fullback on the right side and a support one on the left. I reckon hazard is an IF/S while using a support winger on the other side, their midfield trio is weird tho', i reckon fabregas plays as an adv playmaker on support, matic as a cm/d and a offensive mid support oscar. Pretty sure they use Diego Costa as deep forward or even defensive forward. I haven't spent much time watching them this version tbh but i reckon they play on the counter with a fluid mentality and a more direct approach, although i doubt they use the same approach every time.

I'm a big fan of the 4231 IRL, but in FM I can't really make it work, and end up using a 1DM/2CM trio in midfield.

In 15 I initially tried a 2DM version, but both DMs were too deep, I made it assymetric (1DM/1CM) but the DM is too deep, almost getting in the way of the CB. So I made the DM central and moved around the CM and AMC (1 right 1 left) but I didn't like it.

But I didn't tweak stuff enough to have a final opinion about the 4231 DM.

Anyway, ended up going for my favored system. I play a 4141 or 433(ML/R to AML/R). Sometimes I may simply push higher or drop deeper 1 of the wingers.

The thing is, for some reason I can make this work, without the AMC getting in the way of the ST. Keeping 2 players in the MC seems to work better in defense, plus in attack I seem to find enough roles and "PIs" to make the guy move forward, being involved in the transition and in a good attacking position once we are in the opp. 1/3.

Regarding the AI, not only Chelsea, but I have the impression the AI in FM15 generally uses very conservative mentalities/roles. I find very often the opposition strikers around the 1/3 line when defending. Even teams that are far superior than me are quite willing to defend deep.

I'm a big fan of the 4231 IRL, but in FM I can't really make it work, and end up using a 1DM/2CM trio in midfield.

In 15 I initially tried a 2DM version, but both DMs were too deep, I made it assymetric (1DM/1CM) but the DM is too deep, almost getting in the way of the CB. So I made the DM central and moved around the CM and AMC (1 right 1 left) but I didn't like it.

But I didn't tweak stuff enough to have a final opinion about the 4231 DM.

I experimented with DMs myself but had the same issues you found. I changed them to CMs and found they worked better imo, but I avoided aggressive pressing so that they weren't leaving massive gaps in midfield.

Regarding the AI, not only Chelsea, but I have the impression the AI in FM15 generally uses very conservative mentalities/roles. I find very often the opposition strikers around the 1/3 line when defending. Even teams that are far superior than me are quite willing to defend deep.

SI have mentioned there is a problem with support duty AM/ST defending too deep, but I don't think that's down to the AI using very conservative mentalities.

SI have mentioned there is a problem with support duty AM/ST defending too deep, but I don't think that's down to the AI using very conservative mentalities.

Didn't know about this really.

But yeah I don't use strikers on support duty because this year they come too deep when out of possesion. Didn't think it could be the same issue for the AI.

Regarding pressing, both my CMs are given the instruction "close down less", and my 2CMs, DM and 2 CBs "ease off tackles" (I want to keep shape in the middle and avoid over-comitting). My wingers are asked to close down more and tackle harder. If I notice I'm being overrun down the wings I change the instructions of the wingers to man mark the opp. full backs.

I play mostly defensive or standard mentality with a "rigid" philosophy (don't remember the proper name in FM15), no shouts regarding pressure. But I play with Newcastle, idk if this will work with "top" sides.

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4-2-3-1 Denmark is my favorite formation since i don't even know when, i can make it work alright, winning or leaking on defense was never the issue. The problem imo is with how FM handles the IF role and especially the AM one, doesn't matter since a couple of versions ago what role the AM is i just can't get him to do what i, imo, think a 4-2-3-1 needs.

The problem with the midfield trio on this formation is that they all need to play compact, two of them with good mobility, but at the same time none can be too agressive, also while they have to be mobile they must also be it on their own area of play.

The Enganche doesn't defend enough, The playmaker on support drops deep too much, on attack he rushes forward too soon, people usually claim the Trequartista is the best role for it but i can't agree, again he doesn't defend, he rushes too fast into the box instead of actually doing what he's supposed to, the AM on support does ok but not creative at all. I don't consider AM/a or SS as i don't even consider them major creators.

This can all be worked around if you actually want your AMC to be your main scoring threat instead of the striker, which i don't. This position is usually my main grudge with FM and unfortunally it has been for long enough that i gave up on the formation.

It works, i'm doing my first season on FM 15 with Arsenal and just stopped using the 4231 but until then i was at 1st with just one draw, the problem is the chances created are scarce and hardly ever beautiful, considering the midfield Arsenal has i'd expect much more spectacular plays.

As far as the AI goes, particularly Chelsea, they seem too inconsistant, they either win 6-0, or lose 0-1. The more i see their games i'm pretty sure they use a regular AM/S on the AMC position and fabregas as a runner, just not sure if as an CM/A or an adv playmaker on support, their defense is obviously very conservative and i doubt they use any attacking roles along with support roles on their wingers. They also defend with pretty much their whole team although they don't seem just focused on the counter.

I've seen the Chelsea AI roles. I downloaded some skin and you could see opp roles on it.

When I played Chelsea there 4-2-3-1 was.

Diego Costa as a treq (There was games after where he was a DLF a, anytime Remy played he was a DLF a)

Hazard if s, Oscar Am s, Willian W s

Cesc ap s, Ramires bwn d

Luis wb s two cb d and fb d

I was surprised at the amount of teams that barely had any players on attack.

I remember Spurs played a 4-2-3-1 and all of the front 4 were on support.

Ignore the opposition roles and duties. They are always being looked at to try and ensure they are accurate and appropriate.

I've seen the Chelsea AI roles. I downloaded some skin and you could see opp roles on it.

What skin was that?

Been working on a Mourinho based tactic, think I'm almost there. Only things I'm trying to perfect is the Hazard role, he seems to cover more defensively than FM would allow, but it seems very like Chelsea at the moment. I'm testing the D-line settings and the Striker role to try and find the right balance at the moment, tossing up between high d line and half way d-line for what compares the most, and striker role is a toss up between Poacher, CF and DF, DF seems to provide the most like Costa role imo.

Sounds great! Let me know how it goes or even share your tactic so I can have a look at it?

What skin was that?

Helvetica Lite Skin.

Sounds great! Let me know how it goes or even share your tactic so I can have a look at it?

Bear in mind it's still being tested, a lot.

http://i.imgur.com/UHmlt6B.png

http://i.imgur.com/pcQiBrZ.png

Been trying out attacking/fluid and seems to work best. Also been trying high d-line instead of pushing up and DF instead of CF.

Three playmakers is the only way I've managed to get play similiar to what I see as similar to Jose's style at the moment.

The player roles are pass it shorter for everyone except the DLP, who's is direct passing, everyone who has it also has "roam from position" enabled, and the AP has get further forward enabled.

Hoping to get this done as Jose's style is awesome.

The player roles are pass it shorter for everyone except the DLP, who's is direct passing, everyone who has it also has "roam from position" enabled, and the AP has get further forward enabled.

Not sure if i get it...do you mean everyone? besides the defenders or what?

Upload you tactic instead

I've tried out a few new systems this year but eventually went back to a 4-2-3-1.

SK

WB (s)

CB (D)

CB(D)

WB(S)

DLP (S)

CM(D)

IF(A) sitting narrow

AP(A)

AP(S)sitting narrow

DLF(S)

Mentality attack/fluid, retain possession, short pass, high tempo, push higher, work into box and roaming.

Seems to be working well so far, lots of decent goals from front 4 players and good variety as well, the attack mode definitely seems to be the best way forward this year if you set up right.

Your double-pivot is a great balance. Good example of how to use the deep pair in a 4-2-3-1.

I've tried out a few new systems this year but eventually went back to a 4-2-3-1.

SK

WB (s)

CB (D)

CB(D)

WB(S)

DLP (S)

CM(D)

IF(A) sitting narrow

AP(A)

AP(S)sitting narrow

DLF(S)

Mentality attack/fluid, retain possession, short pass, high tempo, push higher, work into box and roaming.

Seems to be working well so far, lots of decent goals from front 4 players and good variety as well, the attack mode definitely seems to be the best way forward this year if you set up right.

Are you playing a 4-2dm-3-1 or a 4-2cm-3-1? and any more player instructions?

It's the MC version - he is using a CM(D) - only available in MC strata

It's the MC version - he is using a CM(D) - only available in MC strata

Ah, silly me

...

It's true it seems the AI uses mostly support roles on advanced positions, especially on the 4231, it makes sense tho' and that's why i also use them, an attacking role on the winger position doesn't track back most of the time, that can be good if you are using a wide target man on a counter attacking strategy or counter attacking through the flanks but for possession football it hurts the construction a lot.

I'm playing Arsenal just played vs Chelsea on the capital cup final winning 4-0, first season no big signings, using mostly support dutys. Game ended with me with 6 out of 9 shots at the net, 53% possession, so i know that while i'm not shooting much the CCC's i'm creating have good quality, Chelsea on their hand had 2 out of 10.

Mentality : Normal, as i want to have a fair share of space behind their defense but at the same time not be too defensive myself.

Formation : Fluid, i want pretty much everyone to help with the transitions, playing as a compact block that moves up and down the pitch.

Szczesny : GK, distribute to cb's

Gibbs : WB/S

Balanta, Koscielny : CB/D

Debuchy : FB/A (AI would have used a FB/D)

Wilshere/Ramsey : Adv. Playmaker/S, dribble more

Wilshere/Ramsey : CM/D, more risky passes

Cazorla : IF/S, Hazard's role and usually my worst player and my second main issue, Chelsea seems to use Hazard actually as a Winger/S.

Ozil : AMC/S, Shoot less, More risky passes, my main issue as i'd love to see Ozil create more, i know he does on an attacking duty but that's not something i want here.

Sanchez/Walcott/Ox : Winger/S, More risky passes

Welbeck : Dlf/A, although i reckon most roles would work here since it has a lot of support, still i rather have one that drops deeper as the AMC also does.

Team Instructions : More direct passing, pass into space, work ball into the box, play through defense, exploit the middle ( personal option here ), play wider, press higher up, roam from positions, press more, use offside trap, less intensity and avoid short distribution.

I reckon this emulates Mourinho's style of play quite decently with some changes made by myself that i reckon balance the tactic more.

EDIT : Btw if anyone has any suggestion on what to do with the IF/S and AMC/S positions to get IF more involved and the AMC to assist more please share and Happy new year!

I have this conudrum...

what is best to achieve more defensive consistency... defensive mentality and using more support and attack duties, or normal mentality and defensive roles?

Neither is right or wrong. It is the strengths of the individual system and players you use.

Neither is right or wrong. It is the strengths of the individual system and players you use.

I'm not talking right or wrong.

I'm having this conundrum for a couple of weeks, about being more solid in defense.

As I see people playing standard mentality but very conservative roles but I do the opposite.

I wonder if a defensive mentality can be negative in terms of morale (often overlooked) and actually backfire.

Also I'm conceding too many goals despite using defensive mentality but Otoh I create a reasonable amount of chances and players are in seemingly good attacking positions.

With strength of the group and individuals what do you actually mean? Can you elaborate? I mean what's your decision making process? How do you choose?

And you said you want to know the best way to achieve it - there is no single best way to achieve it.

If you have a cohesive team, a good shape, players with the right attributes - then you'll be very solid defensively.

There are lots of things to consider. Start with your team; look at your player's attributes - do you have much pace in defence, height, strength, intelligence? Are your midfielders hard working? Aggressive? You need to know if you want to play a pressing game that your players will actually pull it off. If they are lazy then there is no point trying to press them. If your team has poor height, but great recovery pace, you may want to play a high line. Your team's confidence and expectations are important - if I am Stevenage, playing Man Utd - then I don't expect Stevenage to go pressing Man Utd all over the pitch, I would expect them to remain compact and hard to beat. A 4-1-4-1 is a great defensive shape, 4-2-4 is a poor defensive shape.

Your choice of mentality does not affect morale - but it can invite too much pressure for example. So a defensive mentality may see you struggle to create chances of your own and get out of your own area.

English isn't my mother language, I may not be precise enough expressing myself sometimes.

I was not meaning how to reach defensive perfection, but rather simply how to improve defensive performance. Same shape, same players etc... play defensive mentality, but with more attacking/supportive roles, or standard mentality (or even control) but defensive roles (also simpler roles, for instance full back support vs. wing back or complete wing back support).

We make this choice every time we tweak the tactic, but since I was surprised Chelsea using such very defensive roles (in FM), I wondered about asking here.

Morale, I was meaning... some games if you give a player the wrong instructions he starts to feel nervous, frustrated etc... I wonder if the general team mentality also affects in this regard (if the AI is programmed to react negatively if you choose a mentality too low for the reputation and form of the opposition). If this was the case it'd be preferable to use a mentality adequate to the opposition, and adjust the roles accordingly.

The wrong instructions don't make the player nervous. But if the player is underperforming it can add to a player feeling this way. The player's personality and the general flow of the game make the biggest contribution there.

Some players like to stick with the same mentality, and change instructions. Some like to stick with certain instructions, and change mentality up or down. Some switch formations.

Does anyone succeed to remake or recreate a JM tactic yet?

spamming*