Can't win - help?

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I am getting desperate.

I've had a reasonably successful career on my current save, having won Champions Leagues with Manchester United and a Europa League with Sampdoria as well as managing two international teams (England and Netherlands).

I decided I fancied a challenge in the lower English leagues so took the first job which became available in the Skrill leagues which was the Altrincham job. They were bottom of the league when I took over, with 6 points from 16 matches, so I knew it would be a challenge to keep them up. 14 league games later and I haven't picked up a single point. I cannot bring new players in as the wage budget is already being overspent. I have tried every tactic, team meetings etc. and just cannot get a performance from the players. The strange thing is, in my monthly board confidence meeting they said they are satisfied with my overall management of the team, although I have lost 15/16 games, and have only won one cup match against lower league opposition. The media prediction is 16th and the team on paper isn't anywhere near bad enough to justify this.

Can anybody give me any advice on how to not get battered every week? I am happy to upload a save file if somebody tells me how.

Use a site such as Dropbox, Mediafire, Sendspace, Rapidshare etc to upload your save to then post the link they give you into your thread here so people can download the save file.

In general though simple is best when things aren't going well, try to keep it tight at the back and nick a goal to break out of the bad spell.

EDIT

That said you do come across teams at points during your career where you simply can't do anything for them. I had one on FM13 and I've experienced one on FM14 where nothing seems to go right for you whatever you try. I suspect its a combination of poor attributes and poor hidden attributes that causes it. It can be turned around but that would normally take 2-3 seasons to achieve which you rarely get in FM.

It's frustrating because even when they play quite well, I can be 1-0 up with 15 minutes to go and I KNOW that I will conceded (at least) 2 goals in the final few minutes. It's like the game won't let me win. I'll upload the save now for anybody who fancies attempting to get a win.

I am open to any criticism of my methods. I have tried 5-4-1, 4-5-1, 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 and it doesn't appear to make any difference.

Any idea why the board, fans and players don't seem remotely bothered by the fact we've not won in 24 league games and have lost 14 in a row?

Depends really. If I'm dominating and the other team haven't threatened then I'll just carry on as normal. I usually play on Defensive or Counter anyway. If I'm on the back foot all game and I find myself 1-0 up towards the end I will switch to either defensive or contain and set team instructions to waste time and much deeper defensive to avoid being caught as the opponents push players forward

I've just had another board confidence update and they are still happy with me. It seems that the fact I have a young squad is enough for them to ignore the complete lack of performance on the pitch, not to mention the ridiculous debt the club is racking up somehow

I am open to any criticism of my methods. I have tried 5-4-1, 4-5-1, 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 and it doesn't appear to make any difference.

Its not just your shape but the oppositions as well. I have an issue in my save atm where I've tried wingbacks, 41221 and 451 which suits the squad better than a standard 442 but two years in succession I've been forced to switch back to 442 because the team simply play better and I get better results. The other tactics I've tried have worked well with other teams in other countries against similar formations, they just aren't working on this occasion for whatever reason.

Any idea why the board, fans and players don't seem remotely bothered by the fact we've not won in 24 league games and have lost 14 in a row?

How many teams in the league? what position are you?

I would guess you aren't that far away from 16th atm so its still achieveable but obviously as the season progresses I would expect the fans to become more unhappy. The board on the other hand might have low ambition and maybe high patience so atm you still have time to turn it around but that won't last forever.

How many teams in the league? what position are you?

I would guess you aren't that far away from 16th atm so its still achieveable but obviously as the season progresses I would expect the fans to become more unhappy. The board on the other hand might have low ambition and maybe high patience so atm you still have time to turn it around but that won't last forever.

I am 24th from 24 teams and we have 6 points from 31 matches so I don't think 16th is achievable, yet the board has just told me that they're satisfied. I think I should be able to turn it around if I am given the chance to start again when we get relegated

Well, firstly, you have absolutely no-one in the centre of midfield making runs into the box. Sure the BBM will get there eventually, but it is way too late. You're utterly reliant on only 3 players (2 wingers and AF/A) to do something. Their running is also predictable. The forward isn't dropping deep (being on an attack duty) and he isn't pulling wide. He's not even roaming. He's just easy to mark. No-one else is distracting the defenders with runs. It's 4 defenders at the back vs your 3. Easy.

Secondly. You have all 4 defenders on a defend duty. Why? Not only that, but limited defender roles. They'll get the ball and clear it and most likely, you'll lose possession again. All four defenders on defend duty means you don't have any overlaps on the wing. You have no out balls your midfielders can play and you have a dead flat back 4 when defending.

Thirdly, you don't have any midfielder properly screening your defence. You're going to leave holes between midfield and defence that will be exploited by an AMC, a striker dropping deep or a midfielder making a run.

I created that formation purely with the intention of not conceding 4/5 a game, so I understand it's not gonna get me goals. The defence are only on limited defender roles because they are all completely incompetent playing any other way.

What is the problem with my 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 as well?

I created that formation purely with the intention of not conceding 4/5 a game, so I understand it's not gonna get me goals. The defence are only on limited defender roles because they are all completely incompetent playing any other way.

You'll still concede with that tactic. You won't keep possession well enough and the defensive setup isn't great either, because of point no.3 I made.

You have the same basic problems in all three tactics.

Wouldn't this problem be solved by adapting it to the 4-5-1 with AMR AML MC MC DMC?

If you address the problems I pointed out, you could use any formation.

Ok, thanks. I'm giving it a go. I just played a game with a DMC and wingers. Standard full backs on both side with a ball playing defender and limited cb. Played on counter. Lost 6-0 including conceding a goal scored by the opposition goalkeeper. Have you tried to play a game?

I didn't play any games. Just had a look at your tactical setups. It told me enough.

Had a quick look at your previous game. Saw exactly what I described in the first 10mins of the game. Your tactics just need more thought. What highlights level do you watch games in? Do you just set up a tactic and hope it works or how do you check that it does what you want it to?

Speaking of, what are your tactics supposed to do? How do you see scoring goals? Who will supply them? How do you intend to defend? Compact and deep? Win the ball in midfield?

Ok, thanks. I'm giving it a go. I just played a game with a DMC and wingers. Standard full backs on both side with a ball playing defender and limited cb. Played on counter. Lost 6-0 including conceding a goal scored by the opposition goalkeeper. Have you tried to play a game?

I haven't looked at your save yet but playing a slow style counter mentality is better suited to teams who keep possession and work the ball forward.

I would be tempted to drop the wingers back to ML/MR so your formation is 4141 or 451. This will give you a more stable defence in general but you will struggle against teams that are better on the ball than you are and can keep possession better meaning long periods of a match where you can't get out of your own half.

If you want to play with more advanced wingers you would be better off playing control or attack mentality to get the ball forward quickly before the opposition defence has time to settle back into their shape. The downside is that you would then leave more space on the flanks which the opposition will use to control possession.

Its a question of balance and risk/reward but often I find you are better going more direct with worse teams and working possession more when you are the better team. Mentality doesn't directly relate to this but more direct is better suited to control/attack whilst keeping possession is more suited to counter/standard.

By the way, Jack, it would be helpful if you could post screenshots of your tactics. Upload it to an external site (photobucket, imgur etc) and post the link here to embed. That way you could get help from others too without them having to download the game.

Or just think of creating a thread in the tactics forum detailing what you want to do, how you've set up and where it is failing. You'd get great advice there too.

Speaking of, what are your tactics supposed to do? How do you see scoring goals? Who will supply them? How do you intend to defend? Compact and deep? Win the ball in midfield?

I usually attempt to score my goals from wide areas. I usually use 4-2-3-1 or 5-3-2 with wing backs. However, 4231 with this side would surely result in conceding about 5 every game, and 532 isnt usable because the players don't fit the system.

I usually attempt to score my goals from wide areas.

Okay, that's a start, but how do you want to do that?

Also, which of the 3 formations do you use most?

Okay, that's a start, but how do you want to do that?

Also, which of the 3 formations do you use most?

The way I used them at Sampdoria was against the better teams or if I was closing out an aggregate lead, I would play the 532 with wing backs on a defensive/counter style with clear ball to flanks instruction. I had 2 CMs and a CAM.

If I was playing against a weaker side I would use the 4231 with 2 CMs a AMR AMC and AML. I would play on counter style and use a target man and a trequartista.

Before Altrincham I had never really used a 451 before but I can't see another formation I can use with the players at my disposal.

I haven't looked at your save yet but playing a slow style counter mentality is better suited to teams who keep possession and work the ball forward.

I would be tempted to drop the wingers back to ML/MR so your formation is 4141 or 451. This will give you a more stable defence in general but you will struggle against teams that are better on the ball than you are and can keep possession better meaning long periods of a match where you can't get out of your own half.

If you want to play with more advanced wingers you would be better off playing control or attack mentality to get the ball forward quickly before the opposition defence has time to settle back into their shape. The downside is that you would then leave more space on the flanks which the opposition will use to control possession.

Its a question of balance and risk/reward but often I find you are better going more direct with worse teams and working possession more when you are the better team. Mentality doesn't directly relate to this but more direct is better suited to control/attack whilst keeping possession is more suited to counter/standard.

Surely the counter tactic involves direct football when going forward? I always thought it meant sitting behind the ball when the opposition have possession and then getting the ball and players forward as quickly as possible when we have possession.

Also, the 451 with standard ml and mr is what I was using originally but never looked like scoring

The way I used them at Sampdoria was against the better teams or if I was closing out an aggregate lead, I would play the 532 with wing backs on a defensive/counter style with clear ball to flanks instruction. I had 2 CMs and a CAM.

If I was playing against a weaker side I would use the 4231 with 2 CMs a AMR AMC and AML. I would play on counter style and use a target man and a trequartista.

Before Altrincham I had never really used a 451 before but I can't see another formation I can use with the players at my disposal.

Again, the formation isn't the problem. It is how you set up within that formation. If the 451 suits your players at the club, that's fine.

You need to have some sort of idea of how you want to play and how you want to score goals and I'm sorry, but I'm not getting the sense that you do.

Surely the counter tactic involves direct football when going forward? I always thought it meant sitting behind the ball when the opposition have possession and then getting the ball and players forward as quickly as possible when we have possession.

Also, the 451 with standard ml and mr is what I was using originally but never looked like scoring

You shouldn't get sucked into what you think the wording of a mentality means, more important is what it does. I believe counter does employ an initial counter attack strategy but if the option isn't there players drop back into making safe passes and working the ball forward like a possession tactic.

Yes a 451 can be quite defensive if you are getting pressed back and your ST becomes isolated which is something you need to figure out as a manager, what can you do to get support forward to your ST? Maybe a change of shape is needed, maybe you just need to tweak the 451 during the match.

As much as I understand what you're saying, and I can see these flaws in my tactics, if I keep the job after relegation I can almost guarantee that I can turn it around. I play counter attacking football using wingers and usually a target man and have never had a season anything like this. I'm hardly a tactical mastermind but at the same time I'm not a complete dunce.

I was more concerned with not conceding 3-5 goals per game than how I was going to score goals. I'm just writing this season off. Tempted to go on holiday for the rest of it tbh

You have a few defensive issues as I pointed out. Tighten that up and the counter attack idea could get you a result here or there. If you're not getting anywhere, open a thread in the tactics forum.

You shouldn't get sucked into what you think the wording of a mentality means, more important is what it does. I believe counter does employ an initial counter attack strategy but if the option isn't there players drop back into making safe passes and working the ball forward like a possession tactic.

That makes a lot of sense. I would be better off playing with a different mentality but increasing tempo and implementing more direct passing rather than using the standard counter attack mentality?

That makes a lot of sense. I would be better off playing with a different mentality but increasing tempo and implementing more direct passing rather than using the standard counter attack mentality?

The way I think of it is the higher the mentality the faster & more direct your team will play. Whilst maybe not 100% accurate it works for me.

If you choose to change the mentality to a more attacking one you will automatically increase the tempo and directness of the play so there is no need to add extra instructions. Alternatively you could stick with the same mentality and try adding direct passing/ higher tempo team instructions.

Personally speaking though this needs to be reviewed on a game by game basis. Watch what is happening on the pitch and try to identify the problems (Which may be different match to match). Playing more direct is no good if the opposition is sitting back as you'll likely just be gifting possession to them.

Thanks for your help both of you, will definitely try and take it all on board. Already relegated so using the last 10 or so games to tinker with tactics.

Played a more attacking 451 vs Scunthorpe and picked up a point in a 2-2 draw and played a defensive 4-2-1-2-1 formation with wingers and managed a 0-0 draw vs Carlisle. Would like a win before the season is over haha

After all that, I get sacked after losing a pre-season friendly against Tranmere 1-0?!!?!?!?1