What is wrong with this tactic?

Please can anyone help with my tactics.

So frustrated with this game as no matter what I try I seem to fail. I am managing Liverpool (trying to).

I figured that because I was Liverpool, not too many people would come attacking at me so I didn't want to go attaking and get countered. I planned to play standard to get the opposition out a bit and then attack them. I really want to sort this formation because I like using wide players, I seem to concede alot of goals whilst not scoring many..

http://img538.imageshack.us/img538/8212/3892d1.jpg

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Where do you conceade your goals? Your fullback roles seem a bit offensive to me. Even though you have your WB on support he will still surge forward, thats the problem if the source of the goals you conceade comes from wide.

Lallana doesnt seem a good winger to take defenders on, he might have the Dribbling and Flair but his Pace and Acceleration are mediocre. Same goes for Suso.

So I can see your team losing a lot of balls out wide just because your wingers arent good enough to take defenders on.

Gerrard is a good player, but I wouldnt use him as an AP(A) Lallana is better suited for that.

Thats what doesnt seem right to me hope it helps.

I cant get the link to open for me (imageshack is a bit of a nightmare at times). maybe try embedding it?

However what i will say in terms of advice, even without seeing the picture, is answer the following questions for yourself. Type the answers out here if you like:

1) How did you intend to attack/score goals. (specifically the later there) - You have mentioned wide players and trying to counter a bit, but go into some more detail around how each role/position was to support your goals scoring and attacking transition

2) How did you intend to defend/prevent goals. So which players did you think would be involved in defending, and what kind of method (appreciate the screenshot will give more flavour to this in terms of D-line and defensive shape).

Then onto the important ones:

3) What type of goals are you conceding. I would recommend that you pick say 5 goals spread across at least 3 matches played recently. Go back into the highlights and watch the goals. Make sure you watch at least 20 - 30 secs before the actual goal. Note down on a piece of paper or on a scribe pad (if you prefer on screen) what happened and where your players were and what they seemed to do (or not do) to allow the goal scoring opportunity.

4) Harder for attacking, but perhaps do a similar exercise but pick out from the highlights some of your "failed" passes from inside the final 3rd. Pick out 5 or maybe more since its passes and repeate the exercise - What options did the player have on when he lost it? were any of them open? how far away from the ball holder were they? Was there any space created?

This is my advice - From a tactical picture im sure some on here can give you pointers around what maybe looks good or bad on your roles/duty/mentality/TI etc, but the reality is the only person who see what is really happening is the manager - you Im not suggesting "fix it yourself" btw - not at all! Just have some more info available to you when you tackle the problem with the help of others

I can feel your pain. I am a Liverpool fan and had avoided a Liverpool save for months because i was so frustrated that i could not make anything work on any save. The last week, after lots of reading and interaction on here, and learning new ways to read and analyse and understand my game, i plucked up the courage to go Liverpool again. I am by no means perfect, but i have scored 51 goals and conceded 19 in the first 20 league matches. And best of all i understand why!

Sorry thats lengthy and not the huge help you were after, but i think you will get a better quality of help the more info you supply

This is the OPs image.

Use imgur better imagehost I havent heard of anyone having problems with it.

Apologies for the picture.

Try this one, I have also made a couple of changes, trying to simplify things a little

This is the OPs image.

Use imgur better imagehost I havent heard of anyone having problems with it.

Thanks mate

This is where i'm at.

I have changed my full R to support as i had conceded 6 goals which were assisted from that area

I cant get the link to open for me (imageshack is a bit of a nightmare at times). maybe try embedding it?

However what i will say in terms of advice, even without seeing the picture, is answer the following questions for yourself. Type the answers out here if you like:

1) How did you intend to attack/score goals. (specifically the later there) - You have mentioned wide players and trying to counter a bit, but go into some more detail around how each role/position was to support your goals scoring and attacking transition

2) How did you intend to defend/prevent goals. So which players did you think would be involved in defending, and what kind of method (appreciate the screenshot will give more flavour to this in terms of D-line and defensive shape).

Then onto the important ones:

3) What type of goals are you conceding. I would recommend that you pick say 5 goals spread across at least 3 matches played recently. Go back into the highlights and watch the goals. Make sure you watch at least 20 - 30 secs before the actual goal. Note down on a piece of paper or on a scribe pad (if you prefer on screen) what happened and where your players were and what they seemed to do (or not do) to allow the goal scoring opportunity.

4) Harder for attacking, but perhaps do a similar exercise but pick out from the highlights some of your "failed" passes from inside the final 3rd. Pick out 5 or maybe more since its passes and repeate the exercise - What options did the player have on when he lost it? were any of them open? how far away from the ball holder were they? Was there any space created?

This is my advice - From a tactical picture im sure some on here can give you pointers around what maybe looks good or bad on your roles/duty/mentality/TI etc, but the reality is the only person who see what is really happening is the manager - you Im not suggesting "fix it yourself" btw - not at all! Just have some more info available to you when you tackle the problem with the help of others

I can feel your pain. I am a Liverpool fan and had avoided a Liverpool save for months because i was so frustrated that i could not make anything work on any save. The last week, after lots of reading and interaction on here, and learning new ways to read and analyse and understand my game, i plucked up the courage to go Liverpool again. I am by no means perfect, but i have scored 51 goals and conceded 19 in the first 20 league matches. And best of all i understand why!

Sorry thats lengthy and not the huge help you were after, but i think you will get a better quality of help the more info you supply

I want my striker to score the majority of my goals, assisted by the midfield players. I obviously want them to make a decent contribution with goals aswell. I like the inside forward to cut inside to support my striker and the winger to supply.

Defensively, I would like to be reasonably solid with my fullbacks only going forward when safe to do so. I'm a fan of pressing and winning the ball back but I don't want that to damage the shape of my team. The DM I would to use as cover for when my full backs do push on and to mark the AMC out of the game.

Most goals conceded came from my RB area.

Also be aware that doing a lot of changes in a short period of time wont help your team play better they need to adapt to what you ask from them. So doing radical changes mid season on your main tactic isnt ideal.

I would suggest making a second tactic and training it for a couple of weeks until you switch to it, if you make changes in terms of Team Instructions , Mentality and Fluidity. Or restarting the save.

This is the bane of my FM careers I make too many changes in a short time and I basically baffle my team with a new instruction every week.

I want my striker to score the majority of my goals, assisted by the midfield players. I obviously want them to make a decent contribution with goals aswell. I like the inside forward to cut inside to support my striker and the winger to supply.

Defensively, I would like to be reasonably solid with my fullbacks only going forward when safe to do so. I'm a fan of pressing and winning the ball back but I don't want that to damage the shape of my team. The DM I would to use as cover for when my full backs do push on and to mark the AMC out of the game.

Most goals conceded came from my RB area.

Ok so thats a good start. First point would be that you expect your striker to score the majority of your goals, but you have him set to one of the least attacking roles/duties available? A DLF(s) is not usually someone who is the main scorer. Its more of a space creation type role (although of course you can score goals from it, with the right player and set up).

Also consider is that the best use of an explosively fast striker like Sturridge? His best attributes, in my view, are his speed and also his penalty box traits (finishing, anticipation, off the ball).

I think the change from AP(a) to CM(A) will change the balance slightly and get another body in and around the box, Henderson is great in that role as he gets through a power of work and has some good PPM.

Next question, you are using "pass into space" - Whats the thinking behind that? Your DLF isnt going to look to get onto many defence splitting passes, your IF is cutting inside where space isnt generally there, and your fullbacks are not overlapping. So i guess questioning what you expect that TI to deliver (not to say its wrong - just understanding what you envisaged).

In terms of conceded, it doesnt overly surprise me that its down that side. You have a winger in the AM strata and an attacking central midfield player on that side. Again, you need to watch back some goals to really understand this, but consider moving the winger back to the MR slot. It has the double advantage of a little more defensive cover, and also means the winger is more involved and has more space to open his legs (erm.....) when he gets the ball. Sterling can be a beast in that role.

Llallana is a funny one, and i have not been able to get him to perform for me at all. He is almost Kolo-esque in his performances in my save. I have tried him an an AP(a) in the hole, as a creative IF, cant get a thing. Last hope is to try him as a supporting centre midfielder for me, but you might find a better solution.

Oh and again, really worth taking 10mins to watch back some games when its "non live" - that was a great tip given to me.

Ok so thats a good start. First point would be that you expect your striker to score the majority of your goals, but you have him set to one of the least attacking roles/duties available? A DLF(s) is not usually someone who is the main scorer. Its more of a space creation type role (although of course you can score goals from it, with the right player and set up).

Also consider is that the best use of an explosively fast striker like Sturridge? His best attributes, in my view, are his speed and also his penalty box traits (finishing, anticipation, off the ball).

I think the change from AP(a) to CM(A) will change the balance slightly and get another body in and around the box, Henderson is great in that role as he gets through a power of work and has some good PPM.

Next question, you are using "pass into space" - Whats the thinking behind that? Your DLF isnt going to look to get onto many defence splitting passes, your IF is cutting inside where space isnt generally there, and your fullbacks are not overlapping. So i guess questioning what you expect that TI to deliver (not to say its wrong - just understanding what you envisaged).

In terms of conceded, it doesnt overly surprise me that its down that side. You have a winger in the AM strata and an attacking central midfield player on that side. Again, you need to watch back some goals to really understand this, but consider moving the winger back to the MR slot. It has the double advantage of a little more defensive cover, and also means the winger is more involved and has more space to open his legs (erm.....) when he gets the ball. Sterling can be a beast in that role.

Llallana is a funny one, and i have not been able to get him to perform for me at all. He is almost Kolo-esque in his performances in my save. I have tried him an an AP(a) in the hole, as a creative IF, cant get a thing. Last hope is to try him as a supporting centre midfielder for me, but you might find a better solution.

Oh and again, really worth taking 10mins to watch back some games when its "non live" - that was a great tip given to me.

Thanks for the input again Jambo. I've been doing some thinking and tweaking and came up with this.

I have started with some decent results and scoring plenty of goals. I am going to start another save but use Sterling in the wing role and try and bring Jordan Ibe through eventually. I will go back to using Coutinho on the left side aswell. I think I have already amended some of the things you were unsure of.

Is there anything that particularly stands out as wrong? Also, do you make many changes for away games?

Edit: Had the tab left open quite a while, the numbered points below were written before your last changes so keep that in mind . The changes look solid. I personally don't like the anchorman that much and prefer a DM as he is more mobile and less hesitant to close down opponents not directly in front of the defense but your mind may vary. Just something to keep in mind when watching games, keep on eye on that anchorman in the transition/defense phase to see if he needs to be a little more aggressive or whether the conservative approach works better. Another weakness might be the lack of players directly attacking the opponents defensive line looking to get in behind. At the moment the players doing this are the winger(a) who is often too wide to be a direct goal threat and the CM(a) who has to come from deep. The IF(s) is not looking to get in behind but rather pick the ball up in a deeper position to start a dribble or shoot and the striker is dropping deep to support the other attacking players. When watching games keep an eye on the CM and W to check if they are dangerous enough and if not consider giving your IF an attacking duty or maybe change Sturridge to an AF(a). Changing the IF(s) to an advanced playmaker (if suitable) could be an interesting move with the CM and W both on the other side of the pitch running in on goal.

(Points written before a saw the new changes)

1. There is only one player who poses a direct goal scoring threat (Suso), everyone else is more inclined to create for others. I'd either want a CM(a) putting some effort into getting in the box early or a winger on attack who poses a goal scoring threat at times.

2. Gerrard is not really a player to take on opponents directly, I think a AP(s) role suits him better. Taking the earlier point into account I'd switch the midfield roles to CM(a) and AP(s).

3. You haven't really made any clear decisions on how you want to defend. The half back role doesn't immediately make sense to me and you are neither playing a deep defense nor a high line pressuring defense. I guess the HB role is chose to give your fullbacks more freedom to push forward (along with the look for overlap instruction) but to me it seems like you leave the space in front of your defense wide open at the moment (neither the BBM nor the AP(a) will provide any cover in case you lose possession leaving only your HB and two DC's for cover. On top of this your defensive line is sort of in limbo between putting pressure on the opponent to prevent them from picking out a defense splitting pass and dropping deeper to reduce space in behind.

4. I'm not entirely sure who Lallana is crossing towards and how he is contributing to your attack. He is playing in an attacking position which makes him contribute less defensively and stay forward more readily but I doubt he will see many crossing opportunities (forward drops deep, IF could sneak up on the far post but unlikely to be unmarked in a position to score) and is mainly just holding up play and linking up with your attacking fullback and AP(a). Maybe you are better served with a more direct role on the flank as you already have your striker dropping deep to support play.

5. If you want to draw opposition out and then attack them maybe a counter strategy suits you better? It would also drop your defense a little deeper which might help as I imagine currently they have a fair amount of problems on the break.

6. I'm not sure how your half back behaves on the transition as I haven't played with them much but when playing with a moderate or deep defensive line I think it's really important to have a player in front of that defensive line to help your defense with closing down threats in front of it. If the half back drops into the defensive line I would either change his role to a DM, play with a high line to reduce space in front of the Dline or play another deeper role in midfield along with him (DLP support on gerrard might do the job).

Thanks for the input again Jambo. I've been doing some thinking and tweaking and came up with this.

I have started with some decent results and scoring plenty of goals. I am going to start another save but use Sterling in the wing role and try and bring Jordan Ibe through eventually. I will go back to using Coutinho on the left side aswell. I think I have already amended some of the things you were unsure of.

Is there anything that particularly stands out as wrong? Also, do you make many changes for away games?

The immediate problem looks the same as before, but possibly worse. Where are your goals coming from? The DLF(s) will pull players out of position, hopefully, but the IF is now on support so wont be going in behind. The winger is on attack but he is a winger, he will be wide. The CM(a), under Fluid, is a littlre more creator and less runner, although it can still work with the right structure around it.

Second problem - "Push Higher Up" - you are already quite high with the Control Mentality. Skrtel and Sakho are not the best at holding a high line i found. Also with the high line, pressure on the ball and cutting supply lines is key. You have "Hassle Opponents" which is good, but consider who is going to be in a postion to do the closing down in your defensive transition phase? The CM(a) might be upfield, Anchor is not really a closing down role.

Give me 5mins and i will post up a screenshot of what i use with Liverpool - Although i would urge dont just copy and think it will work for you

Right, here is my set up for Liverpool. Comes with a huge disclaimer that I am not a tactical genius but i did put a lot of thought into all aspects of it, both defending and attacking. It was also tweaked early season but the set up below has seen me to 11 wins in the 14 league games i have used it (1 defeat and 2 draws). Also saw me pastAthletico and Roma in the CL group stage.

PI's

GK - Distribute to defenders, Pass it shorter

DR - Close down less, cut inside with the ball

DL - Get further forward, stay wider, close down less

DMC - Closed down more, more direct passes

MC - Close down more

MR - Roam from position, stay wider

AMC - Roam from Position, move into Channels

AML - Roam from position, dribble more,

(Positions not mentioned have no PI)

Most of it is self explanatory i think, but if you want to know why i put on a specific set of instructions or single instruction happy to answer.

In terms of the concept of the tactic, when i started as Liverpool i saw the board philosophy of "attacking football" and "possession football" and immediately found myself drawn to the worst football song ever .

As bad as the song was, i wanted to bring the spirit of "pass and move" back to life. Thats the attacking intention, lots of passing and movement and interchanges. I wanted to combine intricate with explosive. Coutinho and Griezmann are my intricate, Sterling and Henderson the explosive. Sturridge nicely straddles both.

The 3 main scoring threats are Sturridge (the main man), Griezmann and Henderson. 33 between those 3 as at 7 Jan. Assists mainly come from Coutinho and Sterling (25 between them), with Henderson and Sturridge also providing a nice return.

I think/hope this shows some of the ways you can look at an overall system and understand every aspect of it and try to cater for it. I wanted to cover:

• Penetration behind the defensive (Sturridge is on attack duty for this, as is Henderson)
  
• Stretching the field laterally (Sterling and Moreno have this job)
  
• Retaining possession (Comes from the TI and the player types - lots of good technical players)
  
• Protecting the backline (Stevie G gets this role, although he it isnt his main strength)
  
• Bit of variation in the passing to avoid being predictable (Gerrard with more direct passing is the main one, also Sterling with crosses)
  
• Not being let short handed at the back (Keeping Johnson fairly deep and defensive in his mindset, and keeping Sterling in a defensive position where he can contribute)
  
• Pressure on the opposition (the hassle opponents and the 2 CM in particular hassling more, as the middle of the pitch is where dangerous players can thrive with time on the ball)
  
• Not being caught "over the top" (D-Line not pushed up despite the pressing game, and a sweeper keeper in place)
  

However what i will say in terms of advice, even without seeing the picture, is answer the following questions for yourself. Type the answers out here if you like:

1) How did you intend to attack/score goals. (specifically the later there) - You have mentioned wide players and trying to counter a bit, but go into some more detail around how each role/position was to support your goals scoring and attacking transition

2) How did you intend to defend/prevent goals. So which players did you think would be involved in defending, and what kind of method (appreciate the screenshot will give more flavour to this in terms of D-line and defensive shape).

Then onto the important ones:

3) What type of goals are you conceding. I would recommend that you pick say 5 goals spread across at least 3 matches played recently. Go back into the highlights and watch the goals. Make sure you watch at least 20 - 30 secs before the actual goal. Note down on a piece of paper or on a scribe pad (if you prefer on screen) what happened and where your players were and what they seemed to do (or not do) to allow the goal scoring opportunity.

4) Harder for attacking, but perhaps do a similar exercise but pick out from the highlights some of your "failed" passes from inside the final 3rd. Pick out 5 or maybe more since its passes and repeate the exercise - What options did the player have on when he lost it? were any of them open? how far away from the ball holder were they? Was there any space created?

This is my advice - From a tactical picture im sure some on here can give you pointers around what maybe looks good or bad on your roles/duty/mentality/TI etc, but the reality is the only person who see what is really happening is the manager - you Im not suggesting "fix it yourself" btw - not at all! Just have some more info available to you when you tackle the problem with the help of others

I can feel your pain. I am a Liverpool fan and had avoided a Liverpool save for months because i was so frustrated that i could not make anything work on any save. The last week, after lots of reading and interaction on here, and learning new ways to read and analyse and understand my game, i plucked up the courage to go Liverpool again. I am by no means perfect, but i have scored 51 goals and conceded 19 in the first 20 league matches. And best of all i understand why!

Sorry thats lengthy and not the huge help you were after, but i think you will get a better quality of help the more info you supply

What a great piece of advice! Sorry to go away from the main purpose of the thread but this why many of us don't get our tactical plans working in the way we want. I'll save this thread for further analyze on my games.

What a great piece of advice! Sorry to go away from the main purpose of the thread but this why many of us don't get our tactical plans working in the way we want. I'll save this thread for further analyze on my games.

Thank you, not my own advice really, just distilling what many experienced members here have tried to put across to me and many others.

Of course, i also forgot by far the most important bit of advice when playing as Liverpool:

Do not, ever, under any circumstances, no matter how desperate, ever , ever, play Kolo Toure..............

Do not, ever, under any circumstances, no matter how desperate, ever , ever, play Kolo Toure..............

Even if you happen to be Brendan Rodgers.

Hi Jambo, really enjoyed reading your thoughts on this thread. Can I just ask why you decided to go for CF(A) with Sturridge and not say AF (A) ? I've always been wary about Complete Forwards, as I don't think I understand the role that well (apart from the player being able to perform a mixture of all roles).

Hi Jambo, really enjoyed reading your thoughts on this thread. Can I just ask why you decided to go for CF(A) with Sturridge and not say AF (A) ? I've always been wary about Complete Forwards, as I don't think I understand the role that well (apart from the player being able to perform a mixture of all roles).

Thats a good question and quite relevant for the OP as well.

I find the CF has more dimension to his play than the AF, whilst still retaining the threat high up the pitch. AF has its place, in a system which really looks in behind and have a player who is fast but perhaps lacks other attributes. For me Sturridge is good enough to bring more to the game. As a CF he roams a little more, gets more involved in passing phases and brings other runners past him into play (my set up has Henderson often up alongside him).

I think the CF role is a great hybrid of AF/DLF/Treq - As often is the case, i find the ingame description/help to be a little misleading and perhaps people think you can only use the role if you have a Diego Costa or a Suarez. I find that a lot of different players can perform well in that role.

Another slight angle to it, is the versatility. My "plan B" often involes bringing the mighty Riccardo Lambertinho off the bench and with this role, he can slot right in, and he will play the role differently to Sturridge, based on his attributes and his PPM's. I like that aspect of being able to change your style a little without changing anything tactically. The late SFraser used to talk about the concept and it can work well.