Really? What the hell is going on here.

Not had a big problem with transfers before but really strange ones just now. Finding it quite difficult to relate these to reality.

Real turn down £150m for Benzema, yeah sure.

Juve turn down £120m for Pogba, unlikely.

Even Roma won't take £60m upfront cash for Strootman, lmao.

Then the best of all, Man Utd think i should give them David Luiz for nothing. Priceless.

Real don't exactly need the money. Why would they sell an "indespensible" member of their squad to a rival?

It's exactly the same with Juve and Pogba.

Roma and Strootman is more weird, (despite the lower value).

What is the loan status and squad status of Luiz? I bet he's not listed as "unavailable" for loan.

Do Chelsea normally loan their top players to their rivals?

Do Chelsea normally loan their top players to their rivals?

You mean like loaning Courtois to a team that will beat you in the Semi of the Champions League? Do you mean that sort of rivalry?

What was his loan status by the way?

As I mentioned in my own thread of a similar subject the transfer system in FM2014 is rubbish . A player is either for sale and you get them dirt cheap , not for sale but an AI teams bids so you get them around cost , or the club doesn't want to sell and turns down ludicrous bids they would never turn down in real life. I had everton turn down £80 million for ross barkley in my 1st or 2nd season , ridiculous. I could list a hundred examples of completely absurd bids being turned down.

Every top player the AI doesn't bid for and they don't want to sell makes the game come across as completely unrealistic , there are all sorts of mental bids I have seen turned down by clubs that could never turn down big offers in real life.

It's seems like there is just no effort put into the transfer system , it just seems to have a few basic rules and any bids outside that become silly.

Not to mention these clubs who are turning down 80+ million bids usually sell the player for £20 million as soon as the AI bids for them. It's a terrible system . This game seems to think £80 million bids are nothing special and that most big clubs can happily turn them away for all there top players unless the AI bids for them or they want rid of them.

I've played CM/FM since the first one and this is the worst one by a long way for the transfer system . Sure the earlier games made it too easy to buy players but at least that was fun. This version you cant buy top players unless the AI bids or they happen to want to sell them , awful transfer system.

Last night I had an £90 million bid for balotteli turned down , 3 months later they sell him for £24 million as they AI bids for him.

Real don't exactly need the money. Why would they sell an "indespensible" member of their squad to a rival?

It's exactly the same with Juve and Pogba.

Roma and Strootman is more weird, (despite the lower value).

What is the loan status and squad status of Luiz? I bet he's not listed as "unavailable" for loan.

Why would Real Madrid sell Benzema for 150 million? So they can buy Suarez and still make a profit.

Why would Juve sell Pogba for 120 million? Because they would, obviously.

Why would Roma sell Strootman for 60 million? Because he's worth 15 million.

I'm assuming Luiz is listed for loan, otherwise that offer makes no sense.

No-one has the divine right in FM to sign whoever they want. Some players just aren't for sale, and that's that. This is the game's way of handling that, around the "rubbish input, rubbish output" method. Yes, they probably wouldn't reject those offers in real life, but then in real life they wouldn't be made in the first place.

I've never really encountered this anyway - when I'm trying to pick up really good players, I usually get offers negotiated to really high amounts rather than flat out rejections. I just take that as a "not for sale" and move on, much like you would in real life, rather than throwing huge amounts of money at the system and then complain that it's wrong.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391535-Telling-other-clubs-to-politely-go-away

We had a very good post from SI just yesterday:

HUNT3R is correct that the point you've raised has been discussed at length on the forum but I would like to address something that you've mentioned.

The example you give of the Gareth Bale's move to Real Madrid is an interesting one, in that case & Ronadlo's move from Man Utd there was a very similar theme, specifically both players had made it clear at least a year earlier that they were very interested in moving to Real Madrid. Once that desire had been made clear by the player their current club had to decide if they keep the player while their contract runs down & risk their value only going down or whether they should make every effort to maximise the transfer fee that is paid/ We can only speculate but I imagine that thanks to having solid finances neither club would have considered selling if the player declared that they had no intention of leaving the club regardless of who was interested.

Julian Draxler & Marco Reus are recent examples of this, both players have release clauses in their contracts but the chances of those clauses being actived are very slim as both have declared their intent to stay at Schalke & BvB respectively.

In the case of making this sort of bid in FM, has the ground work been done? Has the player told their club that they want to leave? If either of these is a no then it is quite logical for a club in a strong financial position to reject any approach for one of their key players, as has been shown despite using the Bale transfer fee to bring in a number of new players most people would probably consider Spurs to be in a weaker position than they were a year ago.

The example screenshots that were posted are a result of a change in response behaviour a number of version ago, in the past if a club did not have a financial need to sell a key player they would simply reject any offer tabled without consideration & this drew complaints that if an FM'er had £250m to spend & wanted to use it on a single player then they would often struggle to get a deal done, this is why AI clubs now always have a price at which they will deal & it can lead to examples of apparently illogical asking prices being demanded. What the club is saying when they give out these £150m+ figures is that they do not want to sell & do not need to sell but if you're silly enough this is what they'll take, personally I preferred the old method of the club just rejecting your bids until you gave up & considered other player options.

Something to consider is how many transfers take place between clubs at the very elite level that do not involve the selling club wanting to get rid of the player or the player making it clear that they want to leave the club?

The bottom line is that these clubs don't want to sell. The offer from Man Utd you're free to reject.

Real don't exactly need the money. Why would they sell an "indespensible" member of their squad to a rival?

It's exactly the same with Juve and Pogba.

Roma and Strootman is more weird, (despite the lower value).

What is the loan status and squad status of Luiz? I bet he's not listed as "unavailable" for loan.

They would even bite for half that amount.

No-one has the divine right in FM to sign whoever they want. Some players just aren't for sale, and that's that. This is the game's way of handling that, around the "rubbish input, rubbish output" method. Yes, they probably wouldn't reject those offers in real life, but then in real life they wouldn't be made in the first place.

I've never really encountered this anyway - when I'm trying to pick up really good players, I usually get offers negotiated to really high amounts rather than flat out rejections. I just take that as a "not for sale" and move on, much like you would in real life, rather than throwing huge amounts of money at the system and then complain that it's wrong.

that's silly to say though , outside a very few clubs and players everyone in the world is for sale , every club says players aren't for sale and then sells them. How can you think it's realistic clubs turn down £120m for a player then sell him for £24 million within 6 months just cause the AI decides to bid ?

99% of clubs can not turn down £50m bids for anyone , never mind £100 million. It's the fact these figures go out the window as soon as the AI bids that is the most broken part though. The transfer system is clearly broken or just terrible. I had aston villa turn down £45 million for jack grealish , think he was worth 3.5 million, LOL . yea right , andy learner would drive him to my house .

They need to change the rules that govern the transfers within the game. Talking of benzema I had an £80 million bid turned down (LOL) , they sold him to Chelsea for £24 million the following transfer window , the system is broken.

No-one has the divine right in FM to sign whoever they want. Some players just aren't for sale, and that's that. This is the game's way of handling that, around the "rubbish input, rubbish output" method. Yes, they probably wouldn't reject those offers in real life, but then in real life they wouldn't be made in the first place.

.

I'm pretty sure this is a bogus theory. If the game gives a manager a huge budget and a board that will allow them to make such offers, then why is it "rubbish input"?

They need to change the rules that govern the transfers within the game. Talking of benzema I had an £80 million bid turned down (LOL) , they sold him to Chelsea for £24 million the following transfer window , the system is broken.

So you started to lay some groundwork to unsettle Benzema, but then don't follow up and the AI gets him the next transfer window? Your fault.

So you started to lay some groundwork to unsettle Benzema, but then don't follow up and the AI gets him the next transfer window? Your fault.

I had my £24 million for benzema accepted , 4 months after having my £80 million turned down, that's why the system is broken . If your saying that's realistic then you just trolling to defend a silly point. I had no intention of buying him for £80 million. I'm not insane there's much better strikers than him.

that's silly to say though , outside a very few clubs and players everyone in the world is for sale , every club says players aren't for sale and then sells them. How can you think it's realistic clubs turn down £120m for a player then sell him for £24 million within 6 months just cause the AI decides to bid ?

99% of clubs can not turn down £50m bids for anyone , never mind £100 million. It's the fact these figures go out the window as soon as the AI bids that is the most broken part though. The transfer system is clearly broken or just terrible. I had aston villa turn down £45 million for jack grealish , think he was worth 3.5 million, LOL . yea right , andy learner would drive him to my house .

They need to change the rules that govern the transfers within the game. Talking of benzema I had an £80 million bid turned down (LOL) , they sold him to Chelsea for £24 million the following transfer window , the system is broken.

Did Benzema have his head turned by your club? Did he reject a new contract at Madrid? Did he decide he wanted a new challenge? Did a new manager come in at Madrid? What is your rep? is Mourinho still manager of Chelsea? Have you had any dealings with Madrid before?

All of these variables have to be taken into account, it never is as simple as "I bid this, he left for less to someone else - this is broken"

I'm pretty sure this is a bogus theory. If the game gives a manager a huge budget and a board that will allow them to make such offers, then why is it "rubbish input"?

"Rubbish in rubbish out" is probably a corruption on GIGO, which has nothing to do with realism... GIGO refers to inputs that don't match its preconditions, like bidding letters for a player (precondition: The bid must be a number). If the precondition is indeed "only realistic bids", then this strikes me as a particularly-bad precondition because it means there is a maximum value up to a point where the AI is "realistic" and that figure falls way, way short of clubs' budgets in reality.

So you started to lay some groundwork to unsettle Benzema, but then don't follow up and the AI gets him the next transfer window? Your fault.

How do you know Benzema was unsettled at the time of the Chelsea bid?

I love people defending a clearly broken system . The answer is simple as soon as the AI bids a player they wont sell for £120m they will sell for £25 million , and they will sell him to you for that even after turning down £120 million . It's nonsense and pretty pathetic set of rules working behind the scenes.

Test it for your self . I had £120 million I made about 20 £80 million bids , none were accepted for any top player . They will all leave for around £20-35 million as soon as the AI bids.

I had my £24 million for benzema accepted , 4 months after having my £80 million turned down, that's why the system is broken . If your saying that's realistic then you just trolling to defend a silly point. I had no intention of buying him for £80 million. I'm not insane there's much better strikers than him.

So don't bid 80m for him then? In any case, you seemed to have ruffled a few feathers over at Real, so you had the chance to get him for cheaper.

How do you know Benzema was unsettled at the time of the Chelsea bid?

Well, obviously something happened over there that cause Real to consider selling when they wouldn't before.

You mean like loaning Courtois to a team that will beat you in the Semi of the Champions League? Do you mean that sort of rivalry?

What was his loan status by the way?

Courtois was about 19 when he went out and could hardly be classified as a key player. The loan was 3 years ago, are you saying Chelsea should have known they would have been playing Atletico in the semi finals of the Champions league 2 years later. Seriously mate, get a grip.

Courtois was about 19 when he went out and could hardly be classified as a key player. The loan was 3 years ago, are you saying Chelsea should have known they would have been playing Atletico in the semi finals of the Champions league 2 years later. Seriously mate, get a grip.

Seriously, you've been asked this a few times now. What was his squad, transfer and loan status?

David Luiz - Key Player, First team starter, Happy, No transfer status.

I love people defending a clearly broken system . The answer is simple as soon as the AI bids a player they wont sell for £120m they will sell for £25 million , and they will sell him to you for that even after turning down £120 million . It's nonsense and pretty pathetic set of rules working behind the scenes.

Test it for your self . I had £120 million I made about 20 £80 million bids , none were accepted for any top player . They will all leave for around £20-35 million as soon as the AI bids.

This is accurate.

David Luiz - Key Player, First team starter, Happy, No transfer status.

Then it seems like a strange bid, to me, but I don't know what goes on under the hood. All you have to do is reject, though.

Test it for your self . I had £120 million I made about 20 £80 million bids , none were accepted for any top player . They will all leave for around £20-35 million as soon as the AI bids.

Do they bid 20-35m and then the club is willing to sell or is the club willing to sell and then the AI bids?

David Luiz - Key Player, First team starter, Happy, No transfer status.

List him as "unavailable for loan" then.

It's impossible to sell some players as well, I had to sell a 29-year-old Higuain who had scored 20+ goals in his last 3 seasons for £100k

Ross Barkley dreams of playing for Chelsea but isn't interested in discussing a contract......

Yet two days later maybe he's had a change of heart.

Later that day....

The Barkely situation is complete nonsense and i would appreciate hearing the thoughts of someone from SI if possible.

Just to cover all the bases, what does his agent think of you?

Juventus would bite, easily. They don't make that much money per year and their whole squad can be improved overall for that amount of money, even at the expense of losing Pogba.

They would even bite for half that amount.

I agree with you. Writing from Italy with a pretty good feeling for Italian clubs, I can tell you that Juventus would accept a bid of £50 mil. for Pogba without any doubt (sadly), whereas Roma would gladly sell Strootman if a bid of £25-30 mil. came in. And please, FM, don't blab about "indispensable" players. Except, maybe, for clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, ManUtd and Bayern Munich, the only ones that could really reject any offer out of principle IRL.

It's impossible to sell some players as well, I had to sell a 29-year-old Higuain who had scored 20+ goals in his last 3 seasons for £100k

Indeed, I find it hard to offload deadwood as well, I put it down to interested clubs just not being able to afford the wages and a transfer fee when I offer them out. In those cases, I stick them in my b team and let the b team manager sort it out.

Just to cover all the bases, what does his agent think of you?

No relation, signed Andros Townsend (he also represents) with no problems.

Then I'd suggest reporting it in the bugs forum and upload your save to the FTP server.

Here's the link to the original thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/383623-Player-refusing-to-negotiate-despite-apparently-being-interested

How can people defend the transfer system in FM? The match engine was much improved this year after a shaky start, but the transfer system is getting worse

They need to change the rules that govern the transfers within the game. Talking of benzema I had an £80 million bid turned down (LOL) , they sold him to Chelsea for £24 million the following transfer window

It would be great if the game dealt with this as follows:

You make a bid of 80 million. They reject it. Time passes...They now want to sell the player, but instead of accepting 24 million for him from someone else, they first offer him to you for somewhere between 24 and 80 million.

That type of intelligence from the opposition would be very welcome in the transfer market. If the AI teams could remember prior attempts to purchase players and act accordingly, that would eliminate a lot of the dissonance.

Overmars & gingerbill

If you set your preferences up so that after you bid on a player, he stays on your preferences for a year, then he should still be on your shortlist when when the subsequent lower offer is made, (in the next transfer window). If he is, you get a message telling you that someone else has made a lower bid for him, (and you just have to watch to see if they accept it). If the period on your shortlist runs out, you of course have the option to manually put the player back on the shortlist so that you can keep an eye on him.

If he is still on your shortlist and the club accepts the offer, then you will again get a message telling you that the offer has been accepted. You can then choose to offer a similar bid, (or perhaps even one a little higher), in an attempt to gazzump the deal.

If you do not keep the player on your shortlist, or he was on the shortlist but you simply could not be bothered to read just one of the multiple messages that you received giving you notice of this deal, then perhaps the problem is not with the way the game works, but somewhere else?

I'm not saying the system is perfect, (far from it), (and in fact I think the Barkley issue is still happening post 14.3.1 but I will have to check to make sure), but a lot of this is down to you guys. You unsettle a guy so the player forces a move in the next window, but you are oblivious to this and the deal goes through without you getting involved and you only notice after the deal has been done.

You are sent these messages for a reason. Take notice of them.

It's impossible to sell some players as well, I had to sell a 29-year-old Higuain who had scored 20+ goals in his last 3 seasons for £100k

This is moderately true. I've got Rooney and Hernandez both submitting transfer requests but no one even cares. Offered out, still no interest.

Really I would expect everyone to be sniffing at picking them up, some bids from top teams at value, maybe a cheeky below value bid from others and some overpaying. As it is, even Fleetwood Town wouldn't pick either of them up for free if I promised to pay their wages for life.

You are sent these messages for a reason. Take notice of them.

My point is not about the human user. It is about the AI teams getting fair prices for their players. If they can act demanding with humans then they should act demanding with each other. If they receive an 80 million offer from a human then they shouldn't turn that down and accept a 20 million offer from an AI team. It's common sense, and I hope to see more of it coded into the AI transfers.

This is moderately true. I've got Rooney and Hernandez both submitting transfer requests but no one even cares. Offered out, still no interest.

Really I would expect everyone to be sniffing at picking them up, some bids from top teams at value, maybe a cheeky below value bid from others and some overpaying. As it is, even Fleetwood Town wouldn't pick either of them up for free if I promised to pay their wages for life.

This can't be a universal thing. I'm in 2034 and I sold 186m worth of players by offering them out (without transfer listing) and getting some respectable prices. Players weren't unhappy or anything, I'm the best team in the world.

My point is not about the human user. It is about the AI teams getting fair prices for their players. If they can act demanding with humans then they should act demanding with each other. If they receive an 80 million offer from a human then they shouldn't turn that down and accept a 20 million offer from an AI team. It's common sense, and I hope to see more of it coded into the AI transfers.

Any specific examples of you bidding say, 80m, getting rejected and an AI offer of 20m gets accepted at the same time?

Yep, buying players is a little bit weird sometimes, but selling? Never had any problems, too be honest. I recently sold one of my best talents to Inter for 50 million + a sell-on fee. The negotiations lasted basically the whole summer, but it works. First a couple of teams offered me some ridiculously low amounts of money (something between 6-10 million). I told them I wanted 80, of course they withdrew immediately. A week later some of those teams came back and now all offered something between 10 and 20 million. My answer was ok, 70 million or nothing. This went on for a while until Inter and Chelsea were the only teams still in the race. I came to terms with Inter and everybody was happy.

Wouldn't surprise me if the same thing works the other way around. Start offering lower amounts of money and then gradually work your way up.

Why would Real Madrid sell Benzema for 150 million? So they can buy Suarez and still make a profit.

It is exactly this logic which feels so missing from AI transfers. It seems instead all the AI thinks is "Benzema is indispensable, we're not going bankrupt, therefore we won't sell him except for a ludicrous amount" regardless of whether they could get an equal or even better player for cheaper. Generally the AI around player decisions (contract negotiations etc) and club transfer decisions seems to rely far too much on very clunky & inflexible reputation level and squad status based logic rather than player-centric and club-centric situational modelling. I realise there are processing time limitations etc but I would love to see some movement in that direction.

As I stated on similar threads before I would also welcome your own board getting involved more to veto bids. Just because they've given you a budget of £200m doesn't mean they'd let you splurge all that on even a top player, let alone a 17 year old from an obscure league who hasn't even played a competitive match yet, which can happen in this game.

Why would Real Madrid sell Benzema for 150 million? So they can buy Suarez and still make a profit.

Why would Juve sell Pogba for 120 million? Because they would, obviously.

Why would Roma sell Strootman for 60 million? Because he's worth 15 million.

I'm assuming Luiz is listed for loan, otherwise that offer makes no sense.

If you could buy Suarez for less, then why bid so much on Benzema?

i bought bale and neymar in chelsea for 200m pound each with instalments of 4 years

your bid wont be rejected if its 200m pounds for indispensable player

best way to sell a player is offer him on loan and when clubs come in with loan offer negotiate them as transfer offer

Two conflicting sides to the argument,

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391693-Toni-Kroos-to-Man-Utd?p=9633812#post9633812

If you could buy Suarez for less, then why bid so much on Benzema?

That's the point people are making. A human manager would NOT be able to buy Suarez for less, but an AI manager could. Knowing they could probably sign a better replacement for much less money, why in the world would Real reject 150 million???

Sure, no one in their right mind would offer that other than as a test, so perhaps the introduction of more board interference when it comes in offering inflated fees might put this whole debate to bed.

Anyone have good experience allowing Directors of Football to handle all transfers? Do they actively pursue players on your list and get better deals than you could?

That's the point people are making. A human manager would NOT be able to buy Suarez for less, but an AI manager could.

It's a point that no-one has backed up with any evidence though.

That's the point people are making. A human manager would NOT be able to buy Suarez for less, but an AI manager could. Knowing they could probably sign a better replacement for much less money, why in the world would Real reject 150 million???

Sure, no one in their right mind would offer that other than as a test, so perhaps the introduction of more board interference when it comes in offering inflated fees might put this whole debate to bed.

Anyone have good experience allowing Directors of Football to handle all transfers? Do they actively pursue players on your list and get better deals than you could?

Back that up with evidence then.

The problem here is the game should stop you making those bids imo, no club would ever sanction a bid of £100M unless the player was the most gifted player of his generation, and even then it would be hard pushed.

You mean like loaning Courtois to a team that will beat you in the Semi of the Champions League? Do you mean that sort of rivalry?

What was his loan status by the way?

if chelsea thought that atletico would become this good they would have never done it AND they thought he would never play against them but UEFA over-ruled them...

There is no way to defend a £150 million straight cash bid being rejected, it honestly astounds me that people continue to do so. Obviously the £150 million bid being made is also unrealistic, but given the option exists it is entirely predictable that this will happen, therefore imo not having a realistic response to this is just lazy.

One thing I think people are missing is how transfer fees actually break down in terms of future payments, performance related bonuses and so on. Bale went to Real Madrid for £80 million, but how much of that was an immediate cash payment, and how much will arrive in the future? I don't know, but I would be surprised if Spurs saw more than £20-30 million come their way initially. Perhaps with another £30 mil guaranteed over x years, and the final £20 mil or so dependent on things like reaching the CL final or winning it etc.

Things might work better if the board had a slightly more long term view when it came to the budget. For example maybe they are willing to sanction up to £15 million net cash outflow in the upcoming window, but will allow around £40 million to be spent over the next 4 years (with even larger amounts available for performance related conditions.) This would mean that the largest straight cash bid you could make for a player was £15 million. It should be really rare that teams have more than £40-£50 million cash available for transfers.

HUNT3R and milnerpoint.

I'm not making these suggestions, I'm really just passing through taking a read. It does seem quite apparent though, given this isn't the first thread of this nature, that there may be an issue. I've never offered 150 million (or 60 million for that matter) for any player, so I have no personal experience of massive discrepancies between AI and human when it comes to purchasing top class players.