Understanding Bayerns 4-1-4-1 and 4-2-3-1

Hello First thread on here, before I get into what this thread is about, i love to make Tactics, Tactics are great and what make playing FM Good when you create your own Tactic and see it come to life. I like to replicate real life tactics as well, with Pep and Mou being my idols in this.

Firstly lets understand how Bayern Plays in a 4-1-4-1

From my observation they play with Two Ball playing Defenders, reasoning being for that there centre backs don't just stay in there own half and defend, they try to initiate counter attacks and also move forward to disrupt attacking plays and win back the ball quickly.

They use Wing Backs/Full back hybrid where, they cut inside and provide crossing but have that ability to look for that through pass instead of the cross example David Alaba.

The DM Role is one of the key roles in the formation, this is there hook or pivot, this is where the passing starts and where the attack and defending start from, Bastian plays this role to perfection along with Phillip Lahm and some time Thiago. This is a deeplying playmaker on support and defend at the same time maybe a Regista? In most of Bayern Matches who ever is in his role is ever present around the box, in the centre of the pitch or in the defence.

The Wingers now in FM Terms are Wide Midfielder set to Dribble More and Cut inside, but then again these roles don't really explain how Robben or Ribery who ever is in that role plays. They act as true wingers in the sense the bomb down that touch line and offer the cross but some times they go to that to chline and then start cutting inside from there and either pass(Ribbery) or take a shot(Robben) To re-create this it would have to be One on Attack and one on Support.

The CMs position i believe is two Advance Playmakers, we see Thiago or Toni Kroos some times even Mario Gotze, they along with the DM dictate the passes, that dictate the tempo.

The ST role is a typical TM or to a lesser extent a DLF-S.

Now the magic in how Bayern play is how Pep brings forth the Tiki-Taka, that beautiful passing game where you pass the ball into your opponents net but also preserving Bayerns Lethal Counter Attack, where they Very high up pressing which allows them to win back the ball and either start there passing play our start the counter but one thing i do realize is that Bayern Counters when they are pressing high up, and use there Tiki-Taka when they are building Play.

My Mission is simple but yet complicated, how to replicate Bayerns style of play in FM14 combing both Counter but yet a fluid passing game play. I have already started some experiments on this and will upload the tactic when I get some time. Though Suggestions on how to make it work or of Roles will be nice along with PIs

I don't think Bayern do counter attack. It was very obvious in the first leg against ManUtd, when they won the ball in their own half, they didn't bother playing fast. Maybe you mean counter pressing?

Read this: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/377489-Creating-A-Tactic-Design-Create-and-Maintain

I don't think Bayern do counter attack. It was very obvious in the first leg against ManUtd, when they won the ball in their own half, they didn't bother playing fast. Maybe you mean counter pressing?

they counter attack situationally. You can't counter against a team that only commits 2 people forward while the rest stays around the own penatly box. when man U did commit people forward, they actually did try to hit them on the counter.

they're really playing a mix of attacking, control, counter and "contain" - when ther eis no good chance for an attack, ultra-slow buildup in the own half (especially when being pressed), a mix of direct and short passing in the final 3rd, runners from deep when needed. It's not just one strategy, it's a seamless switch between multiple strategies (FM terms).

Lots of threads on Bayerns style this year

Personally I'd label it a new bread of 'total football' with players constantly swapping positions and roles. Impossible to recreate in the ME.

Actually I'm seeing the wingers go narrow quite often with the MC's going wide so I'm experimenting with an unorthodox approach by having two wide midfielders with instructions 'sit narrow' and two AM's sitting at AMCL/R with instructions run wide with ball. Other times AM's are true AML/R with sit narrow also. With the right settings theres no problems covering the middle defensively and we are overloading opp. flanks completely with the aid of overlapping wingbacks... Still messing a great deal around with various settings but it looks ok so far!

Some nice points so far. On reviewing some of there matches, the first out and out thing is that Bayern plays a Very Fluid Tactic. With Everyone at defense and everyone at attack. I would use the Sit Narrower instruction but then you have to look at how Robben and Ribery really play where, they do sit Narrow but they go out wide first.

So they take the ball wide to create the space then dribble there way inside to either pass or shoot. Now i am feeling with the instruction Stay wider and PPM of Cut Inside would this be achieve. Or TI Play wider and WM set to Cut Inside

Some nice points so far. On reviewing some of there matches, the first out and out thing is that Bayern plays a Very Fluid Tactic. With Everyone at defense and everyone at attack. I would use the Sit Narrower instruction but then you have to look at how Robben and Ribery really play where, they do sit Narrow but they go out wide first.

So they take the ball wide to create the space then dribble there way inside to either pass or shoot. Now i am feeling with the instruction Stay wider and PPM of Cut Inside would this be achieve. Or TI Play wider and WM set to Cut Inside

Awfully hard to recreate the movement of RibRob and even more so the full backs/wing backs/ full wing midfielders (?!?) . I opted for the play wider TI myself. Only will give the cut inside PI if I play a player on the side he has his strongest foot on, otherwise the PPMs and/or footedness will cause the guys to come inside a lot more.

Not as for the fluidity, it'S a tough one. It probably changes, but in general I'd say it'S rather rigid (exceptions to the rule apply). Guys have their jobs - the defense is there to recycle possession (along with usually one midfielder dropping deep), the wing backs, another one of the midfielders will mostly look for openings to bring in the attacking folks (wide mids, striker and the 3rd central mid). Also, the full backs and wide midfielders are usually the first guys to push up to the next area, alternating between staying wide and sitting narrow (in particular Ribéry and Alaba swap the duty to provide width quite frequently).

There's no such thing as rigid/fluid in real football, but the way Bayern plays most of the time would probably translate into a rigid system since it allows the Wide players to be more aggressive whilst everyone has a job to carry out.

The fluidity in my mind is an illusion since Bayern has a tendency to seemlessly and situationally swap positions. That does not mean though that the system is more fluid.